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Championship Debt, Profits, Wages to Turnover etc. 2011/12

WSS
WSS Posts: 25,120
edited April 2013 in Other Football and Sports
Brighton, £120m?!

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  • WSS
    WSS Posts: 25,120
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  • WSS
    WSS Posts: 25,120
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  • WSS
    WSS Posts: 25,120
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  • WSS
    WSS Posts: 25,120
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  • Rothko
    Rothko Posts: 18,876
    Would Brighton's be the initial debt from building the stadium?
  • WSS
    WSS Posts: 25,120
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  • WSS
    WSS Posts: 25,120
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  • WSS
    WSS Posts: 25,120
    More here: https://twitter.com/SwissRamble
  • Mortimerician
    Mortimerician Posts: 5,222
    Wages get you promoted
  • The_President
    The_President Posts: 14,280
    Interesting stuff WSS, Brizzle look effed - bottom half of all the Revenue Graphs and Top half of Expenditure- and staring relegation. Can only be gross mis-management.

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  • eaststandmike
    eaststandmike Posts: 14,956
    The_President said:

    Interesting stuff WSS, Brizzle look effed - bottom half of all the Revenue Graphs and Top half of Expenditure- and staring relegation. Can only be gross mis-management.

    They may have re-structured some of their finances this season as the above figures all relate to last. They took Baldock from under our noses this year so what does that say about us?
  • redman
    redman Posts: 5,318
    WSS - thanks, that's interesting stuff. We worry but there are clubs with bigger worries. Will there ever be any common sense across football?
  • cafcfan
    cafcfan Posts: 11,234
    edited April 2013
    In the first graph, does anyone know what creates the difference between net and gross debt? (I sort of thought that debt was, well, just debt.)
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 36,289
    Mortimerician said:

    Wages get you promoted


    Tell that to Portsmouth
  • redman
    redman Posts: 5,318
    Gross debt is the total amount owed. Net debt is after allowing for any cash and deposits. So if you have an overdraft of £1,000 and a savings account of £100, then your gross debt is £1,000 and net debt £900.
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 36,289
    Don't know enough about this but could someone explain how Palace had a net debt of 10-11m when they just came out of administration with (i assume) all debts being wiped.
  • seriously_red
    seriously_red Posts: 5,741
    A great set of numbers to show us all how the Championship clubs have c. 1 BILLION of debt between them. Notice no accounts for Portsmouth and Coventry!

    Stability, improvement year on year, good players coming out of the academy and the occasional signing get you promoted without breaking the bank...And of course owners who can afford to cover the losses.

    Notice that clubs with low debts have spent some time in the Premier League or with Leeds and Palace have been through administration.

  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,287
    eaststandmike said:

    The_President said:

    Interesting stuff WSS, Brizzle look effed - bottom half of all the Revenue Graphs and Top half of Expenditure- and staring relegation. Can only be gross mis-management.

    They may have re-structured some of their finances this season as the above figures all relate to last. They took Baldock from under our noses this year so what does that say about us?
    It says we weren't prepared to pay the ridculous wage that Bristol C were. I can't remember the figure, but it was outrageous, at a guess, something like £15k per week.

    How many has he scored ? Probably about 5 in the league. About £150K per goal :-)
  • cafcfan
    cafcfan Posts: 11,234
    redman said:

    Gross debt is the total amount owed. Net debt is after allowing for any cash and deposits. So if you have an overdraft of £1,000 and a savings account of £100, then your gross debt is £1,000 and net debt £900.

    Thank you.
  • eaststandmike
    eaststandmike Posts: 14,956
    Covered End said:

    eaststandmike said:

    The_President said:

    Interesting stuff WSS, Brizzle look effed - bottom half of all the Revenue Graphs and Top half of Expenditure- and staring relegation. Can only be gross mis-management.

    They may have re-structured some of their finances this season as the above figures all relate to last. They took Baldock from under our noses this year so what does that say about us?
    It says we weren't prepared to pay the ridculous wage that Bristol C were. I can't remember the figure, but it was outrageous, at a guess, something like £15k per week.
    Exactly my point, if they had 15k a week to splash they must have had it in the first place, we don't have £15 a week to throw around at the moment

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  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,287
    edited April 2013
    eaststandmike said:

    Covered End said:

    eaststandmike said:

    The_President said:

    Interesting stuff WSS, Brizzle look effed - bottom half of all the Revenue Graphs and Top half of Expenditure- and staring relegation. Can only be gross mis-management.

    They may have re-structured some of their finances this season as the above figures all relate to last. They took Baldock from under our noses this year so what does that say about us?
    It says we weren't prepared to pay the ridculous wage that Bristol C were. I can't remember the figure, but it was outrageous, at a guess, something like £15k per week.
    Exactly my point, if they had 15k a week to splash they must have had it in the first place, we don't have £15 a week to throw around at the moment
    I believe they are funded by their Chairman, Steve Lansdown who part owns Hargreaves Lansdown Stockbrokers. I believe it's in the form of a loan.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hargreaves_Lansdown
  • Mortimerician
    Mortimerician Posts: 5,222
    I think the numbers really demonstrate that they don't have it to throw about. But they were prepared to spend it anyway. That is what sensible clubs are up against.
  • The_President
    The_President Posts: 14,280
    Mortimerician said:

    I think the numbers really demonstrate that they don't have it to throw about. But they were prepared to spend it anyway. That is what sensible clubs are up against.

    Yes, just seems that clubs are prepared to have a couple of years in the doldrums after administration, and then build up with zero or next to nothing debts again. However, didnt Soton go into Admin? then again, they've got that bloke Liebherr bank-rolling the debts i suppose.
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 70,473
    What would be interesting is the split of debt between owners and 3rd parties. Owing £50 million to your Chairman is a lot less serious (if he's prepared to bankroll you) than owing £1m to HMRC, £5m to Barclays, £3m to other clubs etc

    Even we seem to be building up a sizeable debt to TJ/MS/Koc/whoever
  • cafcfan
    cafcfan Posts: 11,234
    The_President said:

    Mortimerician said:

    I think the numbers really demonstrate that they don't have it to throw about. But they were prepared to spend it anyway. That is what sensible clubs are up against.

    Yes, just seems that clubs are prepared to have a couple of years in the doldrums after administration, and then build up with zero or next to nothing debts again. However, didnt Soton go into Admin? then again, they've got that bloke Liebherr bank-rolling the debts i suppose.
    He died. The club is now owned by his estate. He'd lent Southampton £33mn but the trustees of the estate have converted that into shares in the club, so the debt was wiped out. (Liebherr make bloody good domestic fridges.)
  • J BLOCK
    J BLOCK Posts: 8,358
    Mortimerician said:

    Wages get you promoted

    Blackpool?
  • Loco
    Loco Posts: 1,037
    I've looked but not found comparable information for league 1?
  • Loco
    Loco Posts: 1,037
    Loco said:

    I've looked but not found comparable information for league 1 is there any?

    Oops

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