of all the companies that went bust on me I never ever got a penny back, all in all over the years I lost over £100,000 through companies going into administration....basically denied me money to put aside for my pension.
Irrespective as to if they have the knowledge and experience to run a football club, they will not be able to finance the players wages once the £3.5m runs out (which I imagine will be much sooner than any of them realise).
The maintenance of the stadium, including the rates, could well be half of the £3.5m they are holding.
I also thought the parachute payments already had a charge on them from their last administration.
Yes, the problems will come when they have no money left part way through the season and the wage bill is more than they bring in from those that attend the games that do not already have a season ticket. As most of the clubs in the football league are running at a loss, I can't see how a club with Fratton Park can possibly break even outside of the Championship, and they are, at least, two seasons away from that, and if they go down without the ten point penalty this season they will, probably, start next season on -10 points. Then they will need to do with that £3.5m what Jesus did with those loaves and fishes.
If ever a story made the case for a strong Supporters Trust, this is it. Well done Pompey fans.
I'm not sure you can really claim that until a few years under their control has passed.
I'm don't think the reality of fans owning and running their club will actually be that rosy.
What do fans really know about the business side?
If it was an easy job everyone would do it and no one would do it badly.
AFC Wimbledon have done very well as a fan owned club over many years.
Swansea are 20% owned by their Trust and have done very well.
There are numerous other examples although Portsmouth are, IMHO, the "biggest" club to go down this route. In England that is. Barca and Bayern Munich are fan owned and do OK in their leagues I hear : - )
Of course it will depend on the quality of the people who represent the fans from the Trust on the Pompey board and the level of problems they have to overcome but they can hardly do worse than the last three or four regimes, can they. If they just bring some financial realism and stability I would call that success.
They have already shown their capabilities in winning this first crucial battle in the courts and raising £3.5m, have they not?
When the shit hit the fans, the fans of Pompey had a legally established, elected, not-for profit organisation in place to take the lead on saving the Club from extinction by fund raising, campaigning etc.
I hope it never comes to that with Charlton and CAST can work alongside the owners to take the Club forward but if more drastic action is needed then the Trust is there and ready to go.
So the last parachute payment due to Portsmouth is going to players who got them relegated! Fortunately after HMRC lost a case against some clubs ability to avoid paying taxes, the government have told the FA to change the "football creditors" rule or they will find there will be legislation - perhaps later this year? Aside from the examples cited by trust member 127 there are clubs outside of the Premier League who can run a business properly - Peterborough are one and there are also clubs like Blackpool who have spent just one season in the Premier League using Sky money and parachute monies to cover all losses before and after promotion... And then there is Blackburn and QPR and Bristol City - throwing money at players (some of whom we may have been in for) and losing money even with massive parachute payments.
Regardless of Financial Fair Play I think more clubs will follow Coventry and Portsmouth into troubled times. Some clubs are trading with £70M debts and £15M a year losses. They are 100% dependent on a single benefactor who might run out of money (Simon Jordan) or lose interest - how many owners have bought and sold Portsmouth over the years?
So yes, Charlton now has a supporters trust, growing every week and looking to work with the club to help it push onwards and upwards. Ironically we were one of the first clubs to fall over back in 1984 and one of the first to have no ground of our own. Now we have a different battle on our hands - to help Charlton however we can and to ensure that there is a club for our children and our children's children!
AFC started from the bottom and worked out how to run a club from the start. Different to being parachuted in the league football. 20% ownership is totally different and about rubber-stamping proposals and not having to make and execute them. Barca and Byern employ people to run their clubs and I would hope Pompey go down this route.
AFC started from the bottom and worked out how to run a club from the start. Different to being parachuted in the league football. 20% ownership is totally different and about rubber-stamping proposals and not having to make and execute them. Barca and Byern employ people to run their clubs and I would hope Pompey go down this route.
Regardless AFC was and is run by fans and they and Pompey will employ people in executive roles where needed, no doubt.
Wrexham are another example.
Trusts can work, fans can run clubs as well as "business people" because fans are often also business people and vice versa.
AFC started from the bottom and worked out how to run a club from the start. Different to being parachuted in the league football
I'm not sure where you are going with this - the so-called professional businessmen and experts in running football businesses made such a success of running Portsmouth didn't they? So successful were they that that the club was virtually forced into bankruptcy.
Perhaps it's best to let the amateurs have a go? I can't see how they could possibly do any worse...
AFC started from the bottom and worked out how to run a club from the start. Different to being parachuted in the league football
I'm not sure where you are going with this - the so-called professional businessmen and experts in running football businesses made such a success of running Portsmouth didn't they? So successful were they that that the club was virtually forced into bankruptcy.
Perhaps it's best to let the amateurs have a go? I can't see how they could possibly do any worse...
this
Will be interesting to see how pompey do and what model they finally adopt, hopefully a sustainable one - well done to them for saving their club and not just sitting back and moaning
It's not really to do with the relative skills of the fans though it's to do with the fact that, without real skill in identifying players - or luck, the clubs will need significant cash injections to avoid relegation or administration.
AFC Wimbledon managed it with huge crowds compared to the non league teams they were playing. They had so much more money they couldn't really fail.
With the cost of upkeep and rates on Fratron Park Portsmouth are not going to have much more money than the rest of League 2 so they are going to be in a completely different position to AFC. Also AFC's climb up the league has slowed now that they are not the biggest, best supported, club in their division.
As much as we all hate to admit it there is a massive correlation between a clubs position in the league and the amount of money they spend on their squad.
Will be interesting to see how pompey do and what model they finally adopt, hopefully a sustainable one - well done to them for saving their club and not just sitting back and moaning
They've got a pretty large fan base and there are no other clubs in Portsmouth to take support away from them. If the fans turn up and they can get some decent sponsorship revenue then they should have a fighting chance of survival. In L2 they should be one of the bigger fish.
The model they choose will be interesting - what I would be doing (at least in the short term) is offering short-term contracts (one/two years) to players who are out of contract elsewhere and are therefore clubless, effectively giving them a shop-window to prove that they still have it.
You only need a couple of successes which you can flog on for small profits to help tide things over.
Comments
I'm don't think the reality of fans owning and running their club will actually be that rosy.
What do fans really know about the business side?
If it was an easy job everyone would do it and no one would do it badly.
Wondered what Rowan Atkinson was up to these days.
The maintenance of the stadium, including the rates, could well be half of the £3.5m they are holding.
I also thought the parachute payments already had a charge on them from their last administration.
Yes, the problems will come when they have no money left part way through the season and the wage bill is more than they bring in from those that attend the games that do not already have a season ticket. As most of the clubs in the football league are running at a loss, I can't see how a club with Fratton Park can possibly break even outside of the Championship, and they are, at least, two seasons away from that, and if they go down without the ten point penalty this season they will, probably, start next season on -10 points. Then they will need to do with that £3.5m what Jesus did with those loaves and fishes.
Swansea are 20% owned by their Trust and have done very well.
There are numerous other examples although Portsmouth are, IMHO, the "biggest" club to go down this route. In England that is. Barca and Bayern Munich are fan owned and do OK in their leagues I hear : - )
Of course it will depend on the quality of the people who represent the fans from the Trust on the Pompey board and the level of problems they have to overcome but they can hardly do worse than the last three or four regimes, can they. If they just bring some financial realism and stability I would call that success.
They have already shown their capabilities in winning this first crucial battle in the courts and raising £3.5m, have they not?
When the shit hit the fans, the fans of Pompey had a legally established, elected, not-for profit organisation in place to take the lead on saving the Club from extinction by fund raising, campaigning etc.
I hope it never comes to that with Charlton and CAST can work alongside the owners to take the Club forward but if more drastic action is needed then the Trust is there and ready to go.
Trust member 127
Aside from the examples cited by trust member 127 there are clubs outside of the Premier League who can run a business properly - Peterborough are one and there are also clubs like Blackpool who have spent just one season in the Premier League using Sky money and parachute monies to cover all losses before and after promotion...
And then there is Blackburn and QPR and Bristol City - throwing money at players (some of whom we may have been in for) and losing money even with massive parachute payments.
Regardless of Financial Fair Play I think more clubs will follow Coventry and Portsmouth into troubled times. Some clubs are trading with £70M debts and £15M a year losses. They are 100% dependent on a single benefactor who might run out of money (Simon Jordan) or lose interest - how many owners have bought and sold Portsmouth over the years?
So yes, Charlton now has a supporters trust, growing every week and looking to work with the club to help it push onwards and upwards. Ironically we were one of the first clubs to fall over back in 1984 and one of the first to have no ground of our own. Now we have a different battle on our hands - to help Charlton however we can and to ensure that there is a club for our children and our children's children!
Barca and Byern employ people to run their clubs and I would hope Pompey go down this route.
Regardless AFC was and is run by fans and they and Pompey will employ people in executive roles where needed, no doubt.
Wrexham are another example.
Trusts can work, fans can run clubs as well as "business people" because fans are often also business people and vice versa.
I'm not sure where you are going with this - the so-called professional businessmen and experts in running football businesses made such a success of running Portsmouth didn't they? So successful were they that that the club was virtually forced into bankruptcy.
Perhaps it's best to let the amateurs have a go? I can't see how they could possibly do any worse...
Will be interesting to see how pompey do and what model they finally adopt, hopefully a sustainable one - well done to them for saving their club and not just sitting back and moaning
AFC Wimbledon managed it with huge crowds compared to the non league teams they were playing. They had so much more money they couldn't really fail.
With the cost of upkeep and rates on Fratron Park Portsmouth are not going to have much more money than the rest of League 2 so they are going to be in a completely different position to AFC. Also AFC's climb up the league has slowed now that they are not the biggest, best supported, club in their division.
As much as we all hate to admit it there is a massive correlation between a clubs position in the league and the amount of money they spend on their squad.
They've got a pretty large fan base and there are no other clubs in Portsmouth to take support away from them. If the fans turn up and they can get some decent sponsorship revenue then they should have a fighting chance of survival. In L2 they should be one of the bigger fish.
The model they choose will be interesting - what I would be doing (at least in the short term) is offering short-term contracts (one/two years) to players who are out of contract elsewhere and are therefore clubless, effectively giving them a shop-window to prove that they still have it.
You only need a couple of successes which you can flog on for small profits to help tide things over.