Steven Davidson, now 31, of Algers Mead, Loughton, Essex, was seen running up and down the road acting aggressively.
TWO YEARS THREE MONTHS
Bit OTT surely?! You'd get less for killing someone in a car crash.
No not at all OTT, because that wasn't what he was charged with, that was just one line that the paper reported.
Just as the guy didn't get time for receiving a text. He was sent to prison for turning up to a pre-arranged fight (which is deemed conspiracy) and trading blows in the streets while families and pushchairs were around.
Our TV and radio stations daily report interethnic and religious strife & warfare, genocide, rapes, massacres, multi car pile ups, child rape and gang murder: all this grief and hardly a hair is turned, a mere 'tut tut, oh dear, what IS the world coming to' .. a few punch ups involving pissed up football fans and/or the police and it's treated like the apocalypse is waiting around the corner .. methinks we need a sense of perspective here.
Put that on the Millwall Excuses Bingo thread and it's a full house.
: - )
lol .. not so much an excuse, more an observation ... also, I am sure, without quoting any statistical evidence, that there is a co-relation between unemployment, economic hard times and (especially) football violence. BUT .... The trouble in Newcastle was brought on by a loss to Sunderland through bad refereeing etc ... See my comments under 'Goal Line Technology' for an immediate cure for this cause of some violence wrought by aggrieved fans (:->)
Steven Davidson, now 31, of Algers Mead, Loughton, Essex, was seen running up and down the road acting aggressively.
TWO YEARS THREE MONTHS
Bit OTT surely?! You'd get less for killing someone in a car crash.
No not at all OTT, because that wasn't what he was charged with, that was just one line that the paper reported.
Just as the guy didn't get time for receiving a text. He was sent to prison for turning up to a pre-arranged fight (which is deemed conspiracy) and trading blows in the streets while families and pushchairs were around.
You don't think 2 years, 3 months for trading punches in the street with someone else who wanted a fight is OTT?
If that was a few blokes outside the pub on a friday night, i doubt it'd even get to court.
But it's not the same as two drunks outside a pub, there's pre-meditation and, in the eyes of the law, conspiracy to commit a crime.
If two guys really want to have a swing at each other there are plenty of legal ways to do, join a boxing club, or a martial arts club. Can beat the crap out of each other then with no legal repercussions, and no innocent bystanders either getting involved, having their property damaged, or just seeing something that many would find distressing.
Steven Davidson, now 31, of Algers Mead, Loughton, Essex, was seen running up and down the road acting aggressively.
TWO YEARS THREE MONTHS
Bit OTT surely?! You'd get less for killing someone in a car crash.
No not at all OTT, because that wasn't what he was charged with, that was just one line that the paper reported.
Just as the guy didn't get time for receiving a text. He was sent to prison for turning up to a pre-arranged fight (which is deemed conspiracy) and trading blows in the streets while families and pushchairs were around.
You don't think 2 years, 3 months for trading punches in the street with someone else who wanted a fight is OTT?
If that was a few blokes outside the pub on a friday night, i doubt it'd even get to court.
But have they pre-planned the violence and have they got previous convictions?
In the courts eye's that the other person also wanted a fight makes it worse.
Reality is the courts come down hard on conspiracy especially when it is large groups (20+ in this case) rather than one on one and when there were injuries.
As it was pre-planned they can't use the defences of a moment of madness, defending themselves or just the drink making them act out of character.
They knew what they were doing was wrong, they set out to intentionally hurt someone, and presumably expected the tax payer to foot the bill for the treatment for any of the injuries that occurred.
we should do it like the Russians,shirts v skins in a random field.
Yes the Brighton incident was premeditated but if it had kicked off around you this season and you'd defended yourself with force you could be looking at a 5 year ban,fines and possible jail time if they wanted to make an example. I've seen much worse things done outside TigerTiger on a friday night go unpunished
I hope this isn't the begining of going back to the bad old days. Certainly at Charlton you see a lot of people with their kids and it would be a real backward step if they were driven away by the hooligans. I agree fully with Henry Irvine that you can't make acting out of character an excuse but frankly I don't really care what these idiots do to one another however it is the innocent bystanders who get hurt that matter and in that case the full weight of the law should come down on them.
but if it had kicked off around you this season and you'd defended yourself with force you could be looking at a 5 year ban,fines and possible jail time if they wanted to make an example. I've seen much worse things done outside TigerTiger on a friday night go unpunished
So you say but those are some big assumptions. IF they wanted to make an example but if you could show that you were defending yourself and were of previous good character and there was no conspiracy you might not get convicted at all.
Also how do you know fights outside a bar go unpunished. I'm sure many do but how are they much much worse? Do people break an arm or are they left unconscious as in Brighton and do the Police catch them on CCTV?
but if it had kicked off around you this season and you'd defended yourself with force you could be looking at a 5 year ban,fines and possible jail time if they wanted to make an example. I've seen much worse things done outside TigerTiger on a friday night go unpunished
So you say but those are some big assumptions. IF they wanted to make an example but if you could show that you were defending yourself and were of previous good character and there was no conspiracy you might not get convicted at all.
Also how do you know fights outside a bar go unpunished. I'm sure many do but how are they much much worse? Do people break an arm or are they left unconscious as in Brighton and do the Police catch them on CCTV?
Fair point. I think the case may be in a bar fight that unless someone wants to press charges and/or unless serious damage is done then the police will simply leave it alone to not waste their's or the court's time. Whereas at a football match,there are police dedicated to examining CCTV footage to charge offenders. That's how it appears to me anyway,I could be wrong
Was reading the account of the sentencing in the Brighton Argus and was surprised that the defendants had been involved in serious disturbances involving Charlton, amongst others. Does this make them 'career' hooligans. I.e where there's a fight, will travel.
but if it had kicked off around you this season and you'd defended yourself with force you could be looking at a 5 year ban,fines and possible jail time if they wanted to make an example. I've seen much worse things done outside TigerTiger on a friday night go unpunished
So you say but those are some big assumptions. IF they wanted to make an example but if you could show that you were defending yourself and were of previous good character and there was no conspiracy you might not get convicted at all.
Also how do you know fights outside a bar go unpunished. I'm sure many do but how are they much much worse? Do people break an arm or are they left unconscious as in Brighton and do the Police catch them on CCTV?
Fair point. I think the case may be in a bar fight that unless someone wants to press charges and/or unless serious damage is done then the police will simply leave it alone to not waste their's or the court's time. Whereas at a football match,there are police dedicated to examining CCTV footage to charge offenders. That's how it appears to me anyway,I could be wrong
I think there maybe some truth in that.
In this case it was all on film, in broad daylight and known people.
They all pleaded guilty to "violent disorder" which was not what SE10 suggested.
@SE10 is it really just youngsters though. Some of the footage I have seen over the years there have been a number of / if not majorities of 30 to 40 plus's
Steven Davidson, now 31, of Algers Mead, Loughton, Essex, was seen running up and down the road acting aggressively.
TWO YEARS THREE MONTHS
Bit OTT surely?! You'd get less for killing someone in a car crash.
No not at all OTT, because that wasn't what he was charged with, that was just one line that the paper reported.
Just as the guy didn't get time for receiving a text. He was sent to prison for turning up to a pre-arranged fight (which is deemed conspiracy) and trading blows in the streets while families and pushchairs were around.
@SE10 is it really just youngsters though. Some of the footage I have seen over the years there have been a number of / if not majorities of 30 to 40 plus's
You're right but I was mainly referring to the 18 year olds who in their eyes have no responsilitys and therefore nothing to lose.
Seven hooligans were jailed yesterday following one of Britain's biggest operations against football violence, part of a continuing crackdown ahead of this summer's European Championships in Portugal. The seven participated in organised fighting at Greenwich in south London between Charlton and Southampton supporters and were either convicted of or admitted conspiracy to commit violent disorder. Ten others had been jailed at an earlier hearing at Kingston crown court.
David Walker, a teacher and head of year at a Birmingham school, was not present at the fight but he had admitted organising it using the nickname Three Lions, a reference to the England team's badge. He was jailed for two years yesterday.
Many of the 17 met abroad following England, and detectives said they were likely to be planning to go to Euro 2004.
The convictions follow a confrontation in April 2002. Hooligan firm leaders from Southampton and Charlton arranged the fight via the internet, email and mobile phone, and agreed to meet an hour before kick-off of the Premiership fixture. They met at Maze Hill, two stops before the station that serves Charlton's Valley ground, because it was unlikely to be policed. Around 15 Southampton fans got off the train to be greeted by more than 30 Charlton hooligans. The fight lasted two minutes but three men were put in hospital.
Police arrived after the gangs dispersed - but, using CCTV footage, mobile phone, and computer records and witness statements, they were able to bring the men to trial.
The case gives an insight into a subculture in which mutual respect is derived from such clashes, regardless of the outcome. In messages the men expressed sympathy for those ending in hospital, and admired the other side's efforts. One Charlton fan wrote of the Southampton fans: "Fair play to the group that got off at Maze Hill. Don't worry about the result. At least you bothered to get off despite knowing there'd be no OB [Old Bill] about."
Det Insp Carl Skrzypiec of British Transport police said: "There is no doubt that many of these 17 hooligans would have been organising fights at Euro 2004. It's a major success having them behind bars."
I did read generally football related arrests had gone down but unfortunately the actions of a few dozen Millwal/Newcastle fans for example mean we all get tared with the same tag...
Suspect this week if you said your a football fan to somebody who isn't they will think your some kind of uneducated thug with no morals or respect for others.
Comments
TWO YEARS THREE MONTHS
Bit OTT surely?! You'd get less for killing someone in a car crash.
No not at all OTT, because that wasn't what he was charged with, that was just one line that the paper reported.
Just as the guy didn't get time for receiving a text. He was sent to prison for turning up to a pre-arranged fight (which is deemed conspiracy) and trading blows in the streets while families and pushchairs were around.
You don't think 2 years, 3 months for trading punches in the street with someone else who wanted a fight is OTT?
If that was a few blokes outside the pub on a friday night, i doubt it'd even get to court.
If two guys really want to have a swing at each other there are plenty of legal ways to do, join a boxing club, or a martial arts club. Can beat the crap out of each other then with no legal repercussions, and no innocent bystanders either getting involved, having their property damaged, or just seeing something that many would find distressing.
In the courts eye's that the other person also wanted a fight makes it worse.
Reality is the courts come down hard on conspiracy especially when it is large groups (20+ in this case) rather than one on one and when there were injuries.
As it was pre-planned they can't use the defences of a moment of madness, defending themselves or just the drink making them act out of character.
They knew what they were doing was wrong, they set out to intentionally hurt someone, and presumably expected the tax payer to foot the bill for the treatment for any of the injuries that occurred.
It's just unacceptable behaviour.
we should do it like the Russians,shirts v skins in a random field.
Yes the Brighton incident was premeditated but if it had kicked off around you this season and you'd defended yourself with force you could be looking at a 5 year ban,fines and possible jail time if they wanted to make an example. I've seen much worse things done outside TigerTiger on a friday night go unpunished
So you say but those are some big assumptions. IF they wanted to make an example but if you could show that you were defending yourself and were of previous good character and there was no conspiracy you might not get convicted at all.
Also how do you know fights outside a bar go unpunished. I'm sure many do but how are they much much worse? Do people break an arm or are they left unconscious as in Brighton and do the Police catch them on CCTV?
In this case it was all on film, in broad daylight and known people.
They all pleaded guilty to "violent disorder" which was not what SE10 suggested.
Now 44, he had only one previous conviction and caution for jumping over a barrier while celebrating an Albion goal against Luton Town
THIRTEEN MONTHS"
Love to know how Henry knew who was there.
And I know some of who were there as there names are listed. I don't know who else was there.
www.youtube.com/watch
Suspect this week if you said your a football fan to somebody who isn't they will think your some kind of uneducated thug with no morals or respect for others.