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Should we take legal action? Advice from the legal Addicks....

edited May 2013 in Not Sports Related
Just turning to the always helpful & knowledgable folk on CL.

My wife did a 4 year degree course in a UK University College in the early 90s to obtain a professional degree (a First no less) in Environmental Health - so she could practise as an Environmental Health Officer (EHO). Now we are in Canada & she wants to become a Canadian EHO, to do this she has to obtain a license through a Canadian University here. The Canadian University needs to see the details of her UK course, modules, marks etc - basically a transcript of her degree. A transcript is an official document held by the University with the marks you have received for each module during your time at university, the credits you have received for passing each module, and your final grade if you have graduated.

So far so simple, in most cases you can apply to your university & obtain this. She could obtain the transcript & almost certainly obtain the Canadian license straight away. ie

http://shop.salford.ac.uk/browse/product.asp?catid=118&modid=1&compid=1

However her University merged with a larger university in the mid-90s and for some reason certain student records were completely & utterly lost during the merger - including hers. So basically she cannot provide the transcript necessary for the Canadian institute to licence her to practise. Other than a degree certificate, all trace of her time & studies at the UK institution have simply vanished into thin air.

The Canadian University are telling her because she cannot provide the transcript she needs to go back & do a year of further training in a city, 600km from where we live.

Would we have a case against the now merged British University for negligence in losing the records - effectively preventing earnings & incurring extraordinary expenses if she wants to follow this route she is now forced down over here.

Comments

  • Can't really help you there Oaky pal, but really feel sorry for you and your wife. That's awful! Hope you can it sorted soon...
  • I had the same problem back in the 80s. They argued that I was sent a certificate with degree details on it (I never received it), it was my responsibility to have kept said paper in a safe place and that they were not obliged to keep records for more than X (I forget how many) number of years.
    Being realistic, you could sue with little prospect of winning in my opinion and could wait five or so years for a verdict and spend thousands in the process, all to no avail. Equally, you might get a result, but I doubt that very much.
    Unfortunately another example of useless 'public servants' falling down on the job. This affair must be very, very frustrating. Good luck in trying to resolve it
  • i would think few on here could help mate its Canadian law not the UK.
    However you must be able to threaten them with litigation and hopefully they would at least stump up costs for the hassel and ongoing costs your wife if getting hit with.
    Good luck
  • edited May 2013
    Not sure about legal action. I worked for a Uni providing certificates and transcripts for 10 years and the only thing I can think of is to make sure the documents are lost. The best way to do this is to write to the most senior person normally the Vice Chancellor (they kick backsides all the way down the food chain and ensure a proper search is conducted).
  • Oakster its a real choker for your family but as an initial view I think you are going to have a hard time making that claim I'm afraid. It will be costly, time consuming and might not even get you anywhere.
  • Was she a member of the CIEH at the time? They may be able to provide some external evidence of your wifes training that may be acceptable or assist in putting pressure in the uni.
  • Unfortunately unless you can prove they owed you a 'duty of care' (eg. it was reasonable to expect them to maintain records) then you may struggle.
  • Perhaps your Canadian University would accept the following:

    A list of the compulsory courses your wife had to take in order to get her degree. I am assuming that the UK University is not so incompetent that they have lost all their degree catalogues from that time. They could then confirm, in writing, that your wife, because she got a "first", must have earned grades in the high 60's to 70's in all of them.

    Hopefully your wife didn't take a lot of elective courses. The University could at least provide a list of the courses available, and again point out that your wife had to get high grades in all of the courses she took in order to get a "first". Some universities won't give a "first" if a student failed a course. They could also confirm that, if possible, just as they can confirm that the records have been lost, and that it is their fault.

    I spent a long time working for a university, and they are far more likely to look positively on a letter of the above kind sent directly from somebody high up in the UK university to somebody high up at your Canadian university.

    I would suggest that you find out the names of the "decision makers" in Canada, and that you demand that the UK university does everything in their power to help you wife by sending a letter of the above kind. If they won't, then a "threatening letter" from a lawyer should do the trick, and also wouldn't cost a lot.

    Good luck!

  • This may sound daft but could the NUS help?
  • razil said:

    This may sound daft but could the NUS help?

    They could email, Debbie McVitty who is head of Higher Education policy, her email address is debbie.mcvitty@nus.org.uk

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  • Dont you chaps have an alumni association that not only will be horrified to discover that piece of paper they drank so hard to achieve could now be worthless but also who will know who to talk to about it ?
  • as earlier stated legal action is pointless. they don't owe you a duty of care so they can't have breached that duty!

    i did have a very similar problem myself, i needed some a level results and my school had turned into an academy and all records from the previous school had been binned. I got in touch with the education department of the council that it was in and they found all my results, exam boards and everything that i needed to then get in touch with the exam boards and get replacement certificates.

    hope this helps
  • Losing information like that shouldn't happen. Get in touch with your MP
  • could you find out if there is/was a statutory period of time for such documents to be retained? that will tell you whether you have any recourse against the university.

    for example, if they are only obliged to keep records for say, seven years then unfortunately you are in difficulties.

    any possibility another body could have a copy of the transcript?
  • Slightly different to your wife's problem, but when I went back into teaching after having the children, I was not taking on my responsibilities and so had to be assimilated onto the main payscale without the extra points. Bexley 'lost' my record of employment in a basement flood and so I was assimilated incorrectly and grossly underpaid. However, by pursuing it, Bexley contacted the DFE and they had a copy of my records.
    Did your wife have to register or was automatically registered in a professional register or central body like the DFE for education? Might be worth digging further as to who the degrees are registered with. Good luck.
  • Would we have a case against the now merged British University for negligence in losing the records - effectively preventing earnings & incurring extraordinary expenses if she wants to follow this route she is now forced down over here.

    Very possibly yes....

    This sounds like a case of pure economic loss.

    First, your wife has suffered two losses - firstly of opportunity (as she cannot practice until she provides the correct documentation) and secondly would incur other expenses such as re-sitting exams, travelling, re-doing the course etc.

    That means demonstrating that the loss was a result of negligence on behalf of the university. To establish a tort of negligence you would have to establish that a duty of care was owed by the defendant/that they have a responsibility to store this type of documenation, that there was a breach of that duty, then that there is a causal relationship between the breach of duty and the damage suffered and finally, damage to the claimant.


  • Macronate said:

    could you find out if there is/was a statutory period of time for such documents to be retained? that will tell you whether you have any recourse against the university.

    for example, if they are only obliged to keep records for say, seven years then unfortunately you are in difficulties.

    any possibility another body could have a copy of the transcript?

    Document retention is normally enough to last through the Limitation Act window and applicable tax legislation (6 and 7 years) so I don't think that's going to be much help unfortunately.
  • Thanks everyone, some very good suggestions several of which we will be taking up - we have been right up to the Vice Chancellor of the University about this but the response is "it happened before we we were here - sorry can't help!". She has the degree certificate but not the transcript - I'm not sure you automatically get a transcript when you graduate - I didn't.

    I agree that we need to establish whether they have a duty of care to maintain these records - you would have thought that with a degree which leads to certification to practise there would be extra responsibilities on the institution to maintain records from both the students perspective & the chartered institute's perspective (ie they need proof of qualifications).

    Once again thanks - this site is a font of knowledge.
  • Oakster...as an alternative speak to the chartered institute/the government agency and see how long they recommend that academic records be kept. It could well be that in that type of industry that it is longer than any any statutory minimum.

  • Oakster said:

    Thanks everyone, some very good suggestions several of which we will be taking up - we have been right up to the Vice Chancellor of the University about this but the response is "it happened before we we were here - sorry can't help!". She has the degree certificate but not the transcript - I'm not sure you automatically get a transcript when you graduate - I didn't.

    I agree that we need to establish whether they have a duty of care to maintain these records - you would have thought that with a degree which leads to certification to practise there would be extra responsibilities on the institution to maintain records from both the students perspective & the chartered institute's perspective (ie they need proof of qualifications).

    Once again thanks - this site is a font of knowledge.

    one last thing .. all degrees are issued under the auspices of a 'licensing authority', the body which supervises the educational establishment's exam papers and standards (Example: City and Guilds which oversees education, though not degree, standards and awards at many colleges). If you know which 'learned body' was responsible for the Uni/College in your case, they might have a record .. a shot in the dark but worth a punt if you're desperate
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