Before we all get too sympathetic with 'the muslims' remember that recently someone in Saudi was flogged and jailed for converting a muslim to Christianity.
That also offends my sensibilities as a decent, tolerant human being but I see it as no excuse to tolerate anti-Muslim 'pranks'. Personally I think the world would be better off without any religions.
Before we all get too sympathetic with 'the muslims' remember that recently someone in Saudi was flogged and jailed for converting a muslim to Christianity.
What's your point?
my point .. Islamists generally do not give a fuck about anyone else's beliefs and creeds .. why all the sympathy because a supposed muslim is hurt by a practical joke ... spare some thought for the thousands of Christians who are being persecuted in 'islamic states' ... that mush IS MY POINT .. GOT IT?
For a start, there is a difference between Islamists and the majority of Muslims in the world. I'd imagine Jones falls into the latter category.
Secondly, assuming all Muslims are of the opinion that people should be beaten and flogged for converting to Christianity is like saying all Christians picket the funerals of dead American soldiers. They don't. As you know Only a tiny, tiny minority want to do that. Actually it would be the same as saying all Christians are as stupid and insensitive as Glenn Whealan, they aren't.
If what you say happened in Saudi Arabia it true then it's shocking and disgusting. But having any less empathy in this situation because something else has happened on the other side of the world is ridiculous. We can, and should, condemn both.
Before we all get too sympathetic with 'the muslims' remember that recently someone in Saudi was flogged and jailed for converting a muslim to Christianity.
That also offends my sensibilities as a decent, tolerant human being but I see it as no excuse to tolerate anti-Muslim 'pranks'. Personally I think the world would be better off without any religions.
I agree completely AUN, but I don't think what Whelan did justifies Jones' reaction.
Footballers have too much time on their hands. The whole situation is ludicrous. There's nothing funny about leaving a pig's head in a locker, there's nothing funny about egging Michael Owen's car and there's certainly nothing funny about smashing a guy's window in revenge for the pig's head. Or proportionate, whatever his religious sympathies.
(As an aside, devout Muslims can be as passive as you like, but mention blasphemy or Zionists and the violence inherent in their religion comes to the surface quickly enough. I spent a year in Saudi and worked with some lovely people - but get them on the wrong subject and I can only describe their response as murderous. I remember one conversation with the most genteel family man you'll ever meet. It turned to the subject of the Danish cartoonist and I no longer recognised the guy in front of me, who'd suddenly started breathing the most horrendously violent language and made it quite clear that he'd punish and kill him in quite creative ways simply for drawing that cartoon. It happened frequently enough for me to realise (i) not to talk about that stuff (ii) that the violence isn't far beneath the surface. Saudi is of a particular culture, for sure, but I worked with Arabs of all nationalities and it was there in many of them).
Before we all get too sympathetic with 'the muslims' remember that recently someone in Saudi was flogged and jailed for converting a muslim to Christianity.
What's your point?
my point .. Islamists generally do not give a fuck about anyone else's beliefs and creeds .. why all the sympathy because a supposed muslim is hurt by a practical joke ... spare some thought for the thousands of Christians who are being persecuted in 'islamic states' ... that mush IS MY POINT .. GOT IT?
For a start, there is a difference between Islamists and the majority of Muslims in the world. I'd imagine Jones falls into the latter category.
Secondly, assuming all Muslims are of the opinion that people should be beaten and flogged for converting to Christianity is like saying all Christians picket the funerals of dead American soldiers. They don't. As you know Only a tiny, tiny minority want to do that. Actually it would be the same as saying all Christians are as stupid and insensitive as Glenn Whealan, they aren't.
If what you say happened in Saudi Arabia it true then it's shocking and disgusting. But having any less empathy in this situation because something else has happened on the other side of the world is ridiculous. We can, and should, condemn both.
Very well put.
Even if Jones isn't religous I personally still think he has every right to be disgusted by having dead animal parts left with his clothes.
He may or may not be Muslim(I don't think his girlfiriend has sa but some Christians don't eat pork as it is proscribed in the bible. Neither do Rasta and obviously jews.
Before we all get too sympathetic with 'the muslims' remember that recently someone in Saudi was flogged and jailed for converting a muslim to Christianity.
What's your point?
my point .. Islamists generally do not give a fuck about anyone else's beliefs and creeds .. why all the sympathy because a supposed muslim is hurt by a practical joke ... spare some thought for the thousands of Christians who are being persecuted in 'islamic states' ... that mush IS MY POINT .. GOT IT?
Before we all get too sympathetic with 'the muslims' remember that recently someone in Saudi was flogged and jailed for converting a muslim to Christianity.
What's your point?
my point .. Islamists generally do not give a fuck about anyone else's beliefs and creeds .. why all the sympathy because a supposed muslim is hurt by a practical joke ... spare some thought for the thousands of Christians who are being persecuted in 'islamic states' ... that mush IS MY POINT .. GOT IT?
Can see the OB rushing to that one. A smashed car window however...
So originally you didn't think something was illegal. Then you're proved wrong and you then start to question whether it's illegal enough. Some people just can't accept when they're wrong and that they don't actually know everything.
Can see the OB rushing to that one. A smashed car window however...
So originally you didn't think something was illegal. Then you're proved wrong and you then start to question whether it's illegal enough. Some people just can't accept when they're wrong and that they don't actually know everything.
Ignoring the potential religious elements I don't find it at all surprising that Jones would be furious about this.
I'm not an aggressive person by nature but if someone put a pigs head in my locker and covered my possessions (including my clothes) in blood I would do something so disproportional that they would never make the mistake of thinking I'd find it 'good banter' again.
Jones has apologised to team-mate Whelan after throwing a brick through his car window, following the remarkable training ground prank that became an internet sensation on Friday.
Whelan was widely believed to have been the player who left the severed head in Jones’s locker but the Republic of Ireland international has claimed he is innocent and Stoke are still attempting to pinpoint the perpetrator of the practical joke.
In a series of tweets he wrote:
“First off for all the people saying this had anything to with racism I’m not endorsing that.
“Secondly i’ve apologised to glen Whelan for the destruction of his property. For all the people that think that the pigs head wrapped in my clothes was banter great so is the broken window.
“As far as tension in the squad there’s nun (sic) myself and whelan had our thrash out and he said it wasnt him so I apologised n im paying for it.
“As for the person who did it no one has come fwd n apologised to me so I guess the joke was gd then.
“But as I said if you have the belly to take banter to that level be willing to accept the reaction. Thats final no more comments.”
Comments
Secondly, assuming all Muslims are of the opinion that people should be beaten and flogged for converting to Christianity is like saying all Christians picket the funerals of dead American soldiers. They don't. As you know Only a tiny, tiny minority want to do that. Actually it would be the same as saying all Christians are as stupid and insensitive as Glenn Whealan, they aren't.
If what you say happened in Saudi Arabia it true then it's shocking and disgusting. But having any less empathy in this situation because something else has happened on the other side of the world is ridiculous. We can, and should, condemn both.
(As an aside, devout Muslims can be as passive as you like, but mention blasphemy or Zionists and the violence inherent in their religion comes to the surface quickly enough. I spent a year in Saudi and worked with some lovely people - but get them on the wrong subject and I can only describe their response as murderous. I remember one conversation with the most genteel family man you'll ever meet. It turned to the subject of the Danish cartoonist and I no longer recognised the guy in front of me, who'd suddenly started breathing the most horrendously violent language and made it quite clear that he'd punish and kill him in quite creative ways simply for drawing that cartoon. It happened frequently enough for me to realise (i) not to talk about that stuff (ii) that the violence isn't far beneath the surface. Saudi is of a particular culture, for sure, but I worked with Arabs of all nationalities and it was there in many of them).
Even if Jones isn't religous I personally still think he has every right to be disgusted by having dead animal parts left with his clothes.
He may or may not be Muslim(I don't think his girlfiriend has sa but some Christians don't eat pork as it is proscribed in the bible. Neither do Rasta and obviously jews.
What Stu said
I'm not an aggressive person by nature but if someone put a pigs head in my locker and covered my possessions (including my clothes) in blood I would do something so disproportional that they would never make the mistake of thinking I'd find it 'good banter' again.
Whelan was widely believed to have been the player who left the severed head in Jones’s locker but the Republic of Ireland international has claimed he is innocent and Stoke are still attempting to pinpoint the perpetrator of the practical joke.
In a series of tweets he wrote:
“First off for all the people saying this had anything to with racism I’m not endorsing that.
“Secondly i’ve apologised to glen Whelan for the destruction of his property. For all the people that think that the pigs head wrapped in my clothes was banter great so is the broken window.
“As far as tension in the squad there’s nun (sic) myself and whelan had our thrash out and he said it wasnt him so I apologised n im paying for it.
“As for the person who did it no one has come fwd n apologised to me so I guess the joke was gd then.
“But as I said if you have the belly to take banter to that level be willing to accept the reaction. Thats final no more comments.”