Redundancy - HR Help Wanted

Greenie

Dear Fellow Lifers,

I am being made redundant on Friday, however I will be on 3 months gardening leave (full pay) then I get my dough.
But I am owed a bonus, this goes back to feb/march. It was with held, against my contract conditions, I had advice then to possibly proceed with legal action, but I did not want to compromise my position??, but obviously things change. And the person I took advice from has moved on.
Regarding this money, I have paper work (my contract) and no where does it say it cannot be withheld, the bonus is paid on completion of each project.
So my questions are, if I take action against my company while I'm on gardening leave, can they withhold any monies while waiting the outcome. Or do I have to suffer the lose and move on?

I have looked online but I think I need to talk to someone face to face, so any contacts or advice will be most welcome.

Thanks for reading.

J

lolwray

have your company asked you to sign a compromise agreement yet? i doubt it but they will probably issue this to you during the gardening leave period ...if you are not happy with the terms dont sign it until you have taken legal advice

i know a charlton fan (an employment law specialist) who can advise you but i dont know how to inbox you

Greenie

Lolwray
No they haven't asked me to sign any thing (yet). I'll inbox a message to you and you can just reply. Thanks

LargeAddick

take legal advice. you will need to consult a solicitor anyway when you sign a compromise agreement so they can check it's all legal and above board. this is something for which your company should pay the fees. I'd advise against using a solictor suggested by them and get your own, preferably one specialising in employment law. can give you a name if you want one. good luck.

Greenie

LargeAddick said:

take legal advice. you will need to consult a solicitor anyway when you sign a compromise agreement so they can check it's all legal and above board. this is something for which your company should pay the fees. I'd advise against using a solictor suggested by them and get your own, preferably one specialising in employment law. can give you a name if you want one. good luck.

Thanks large, can you inbox me your contact please?
Cheers.

LargeAddick

have inboxed you Greenie

[Deleted User]

Without seeing the docs its hard to be sure but i have a knowledge of employment Law and you have not compromised your position by not doing anything when they witheld your bonus. No doubt you were more concerned with continued employment but as you say things change.

The Key Doc will be evidencing the bonus you say you are entitled to. Unless it has some strange conditions then you should be fine. Not many Bonus conditions include a void clause for redundancy.

Other issues will then be the finances and reputation of your ex employer. If they are realistic they shouldnt put up much of a fight if your contractual position on the bonus is solid,

Good luck

BlackForestReds

So my questions are, if I take action against my company while I'm on gardening leave, can they withhold any monies while waiting the outcome. Or do I have to suffer the lose and move on?

No they cannot withhold any money due to you under a contract unless you have broken that contract in some manner (eg say you refused to work - which doesn't appear to be the case here as you have mutually agreed this period of gardening leave). As you have a written contract that guarantees you payments and bonuses then you should expect them to be paid. However check the wording of the contract carefully - if the bonus is "discretionary" i.e. then company is not necessarily obliged to pay it, so they might be able to withhold it. Even then you might still have a good case - the employer will have to demonstrate that they acted in "good faith" by withholding it, such cases would mean that you were being sacked for gross professional misconduct or similar, as you are being redundant, that is not the case.

Do not be intimidated and do not think that by agreeing not to take the bonus that it will mean that they will refuse to give you a reference or make things difficult for you.

As you have some time free - see your local CAB and/or google for an employment lawyer in your neck of the woods, usually they will offer a free consultation. As always a reading of the contract is necessary.

Good luck.

[Deleted User]

Yes bfr is bang on the money with his advice and good summary of what the key issues are. Suspect you are a solicitor BFR? (I am)

I would back up his statement that you shouldn't need to make any expenditure on fees at the moment. You are entitled to a free 45 minute consultation in any event. As large says also u probably want any redundancy document checked by someone independent also.

Do keep us updated as it seems like we have a wealth of legal talent on CL!

PL54

Are you being made redundant or facing a compromise agreement.

If straightforward redundancy then the bonus should be yours assuming it is due.

If you are presented with a CA then you must negotiate the compromise value hard and this can effectively include the bonus (and then some). A CA will usually allow a seperate fund specifically for you to engage your own solicitor to check it and offer advise - the company pays. If it is a CA then make sure you get plenty.

Mortimerician

I've had this bonus withheld issue. The employer's point was that nowhere was it said that it couldn't be. Some people challenged it and ultimately lost: but the money was all paid in the end, and anyone made redundant got it at that point. If they're saying they'll pay it in due course then you may be best just cooling your jets, although if you have some kind of legal cover - say as part of your home insurance, or through union membership then it might be worth rattling their cage.

Greenie

What a wealth of knowledge CL is!

The bonus is based on 'successful' completion of each project (5), there is no mention of non payment of the bonus for any reason in my contract. Also where some projects did not happen (hence the redundancy) there is no mention of non payment.

Thanks to all for your help and advice, I will move things on next week when I have started my gardening leave!
Cheers

LargeAddick

Greenie said:

I will move things on next week when I have started my gardening leave!

let's hope the weather improves for you ;-)

Greenie

LargeAddick said:

Greenie said:

I will move things on next week when I have started my gardening leave!

let's hope the weather improves for you ;-)

Ha, yes, the irony is I hate gardening ;o)

BlackForestReds

There's a specific bit of case history which appears to be analagous to your situation.

A couple of years ago Commerzbank took over Dresdner, some bankers at the latter were promised bonuses which were not paid in full by Commerzbank. Anyway the Dresdner bankers took them to court and won at both the High Court and Appeal Court stages.

This is the decision from the HC hearing, I can't find the CoA reasoning, which is binding (and takes precedence) and may differ from this court, I presume that it hasn't yet been uploaded to BAILII:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2012/1189.html