Thanks, Roy. It's strange that the centrally seated chap does actually look like Gary Nelson! I like what you said in an earlier message, about the sharp contrast between St Paul's in Deptford and Convoys Wharf. I never met Father Diamond - did you? A friend of mine was talking about him just the other day: he did so much good work for the parish.
Met Father Diamond many times: Normally in Pubs in SE8 on a Friday night whilst he was "out visiting (his) parish". Lovely man, very commited to Deptford.
Thanks, Roy. It's strange that the centrally seated chap does actually look like Gary Nelson! I like what you said in an earlier message, about the sharp contrast between St Paul's in Deptford and Convoys Wharf. I never met Father Diamond - did you? A friend of mine was talking about him just the other day: he did so much good work for the parish.
Met Father Diamond many times: Normally in Pubs in SE8 on a Friday night whilst he was "out visiting (his) parish". Lovely man, very commited to Deptford.
That's interesting, MOG; I've heard so much about him. I wonder if all his good work is still carried on by others. I like his meeting the parishioners in the pubs on a Friday night - that was when Deptford actually had some pubs! There were ten or a dozen in the High Street alone, now virtually all gone...
Thanks for directing me through the team photo, Roy. Your tour manager, Colin Murphy - is that the same Colin Murphy who later managed a host of third and fourth division clubs including Lincoln City and Stockport County? A friend of mine is a Stocky supporter: he used to delight in Murphy's programme notes, which were often cast in florid prose, sometimes bordering on the poetic.
Thanks all, I use library PCs so I don't get a lot of computer time. Just 5 mins left I have just posted a picture of Ben Odeje on my facebook page http://www.facebook.com/roy.hobson.965 with this comment ...It took 42 years for my old Charlton Athletic FC - Official team mate Ben Odeje to win the recognition that he deserved for being the first black footballer to play for England at any level. I thought for a moment that proud Africans had named a TV company after him http://www.bentelevision.com/ Well done "Deje" the CharltonLife associated thread associated with you is continuing to develop nicely http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/55316/ben-odeje#latest
Apologies to all for the delayed responses but I've had a couple of very heavy days because my individual FOOTBALL AGAINST RACISM IN EUROPE development case 1991-2013 currently involves the IPCC, the Commissioner of the Metropolis Bernard Hogan-Howe, and MOPAC too.
LenGlover - I respect anonymity on sites like this, but I am also wary of it too. Before I got kicked off of Millwall's House of Fun www.hof.org.uk site, I had run ins with the anonymous 'Gazza', who was directly linked the leadership of the BNP, and another fascist Millwall & England supporter 'Bermondsey Male Choir' aka John Davies, who branded me Mr 666. Here is a response that I , Roy Hobson aka "Vesper" made at the time, and which significantly was posted by Father Finigan on his blog http://the-hermeneutic-of-continuity...mentalism.html
supaclive - Thank you for asking, as you can probably gather from the posts here I am surviving, but fighting for my life in every sense. You and superdulvertonred both have the advantage of anonymity, but you're more than welcome to message with me with your AKA if you wish.
Viewfinder & MOG - I grew up at 179 Deptford Church Street, which was 'WRITE NEXT DOOR' to the wonderful architecture that is/was St Paul's, C of E in Deptford, Sir John Betjeman described St Paul's as 'the pearl in the heart of Deptford'. I got to know the C of E's Guardian of Walsingham, Father Diamond of St Paul's very well indeed as not only did he back my RICS qualified proposal, to change the planning brief for Deptford Power Station and Creekside, from a light industrial solution to a 'housing, housing, housing, and a hotel' solution, he also used my poetry to invite HRH The Prince of Wales to open St Paul's Court, thereby committing himself to involvement with Thames Gateway, City Challenge at inception. Here's another post from Father Finigan's blog that includes comments from me, Roy Hobson aka "Vesper" http://the-hermeneutic-of-continuity.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/sermon-on-church-architecture.html
Viewfinder - Different Colin Murphys, but both very clever men. The Colin Murphy who was tour manager for Charlton in France 1972, was a brilliant Irishman who combined teaching ( I think at South East London School) with his love of football.
Roy, I was witness to many altercations at Old Addeyans' events and the time you went for the young 16 year old right back who nutmegged you in pre-season training.
I admire your charitable work, but would rather not be drawn on any other matters.
Roy - Many thanks for your info and interesting links. Did Father Diamond publish his memoirs? - I'd like to read more about all his good work in Deptford. You were fortunate to have been brought up so close to one of Thomas Archer's architectural masterpieces. Although I'm an atheist, I appreciate many churches for their own particular atmosphere. During the Olympics last year about a dozen churches of architectural merit within walking distance of Stratford opened their doors to the public each day, and I enjoyed visits to most of them. You may know these places, or care to explore for yourself; here are a few highlights:
St Paul, Bow Common, 1956-60. Apparently the first church in Britain built with the altar in the central space. Radical aesthetics, with boldly exposed materials and industrially produced fittings, and a mosaic frieze by Charles Lutyens. Championed by the great Ian Nairn.
St Dunstan, Stepney. The parish church of the British seagoing empire: the Red Ensign flies permanently from the ragstone tower. Magnificent 13th-century stone arches stride down both sides of the nave.
St Peter, Wapping. High Catholic. A lofty nave of patterned brick and stained glass, adorned with sombre oil paintings and dozens of icons lit by flickering candles.
St John, Bethnal Green, 1828. One of only three churches designed by John Soane. Broad and tall proportions, with a gallery on slender columns, original Victorian pews, and clear glass all round for extra light. An uplifting place.
St Peter, De Beauvoir Town, 1841. Warmly intimate, with a lovely Romanesque chancel.
St Mark, Dalston, 1866. Apparently the largest parish church in London, seating 2,000. Dark and intense, lavishly decorated with much stained glass, glittering mosaics, painted bricks and carved mahogany screens. A revelation.
FD also had alot to do with the gigs in "The Crypt" underneath St.Pauls and I played there many times with "Please Return My Dog" and "Decadent Few". Supported John Otway once and The Glitter Band a couple of times. On one occasion we (PRMD) had fireworks in there: No one told us that they were for outdoor use only. The explosion left me 75% deaf in my right ear (still suffer from this 25 years later) and caused a full scale evacuation from the Crypt. T'was safe to return 30 minutes later. How we laughed....... ;-)
'Father Diamond of Deptford' by Bomford and Potter (1994) is available secondhand through Amazon. MOG - Nice to hear about your shenanigans in the crypt, in the days before risk assessments and 'elf & safety. I believe you were a drummer, like me; was Peter Phipps drumming with the Glitter Band when you supported them? - He went on to play with the very excellent Random Hold. I never played St Paul's, but saw Dire Straits at the old Albany Empire on Creek Road when they lived in Deptford, and played there once myself, with Lou Stonebridge and Tom McGuinness in Rudi and the Rialtos. Happy days!
supaclive - sounds to me like you are a witness for the prosecution from outside the Old Addeyans 1st XI along with Chairman Hardcastle, Jim Pollard, Ray Kirk, and Andy Smith. I don't do charity work, I qualified RICS in 1984, and since then my professional input (CInstCES 1990 too) has acted as a catalyst for change, from Deptford Power Station & Creekside, to the wider developments known as Thames Gateway, City Challenge. For the last 22 years I have been fighting for my life, INSIDE 'n' OUT, after discovering that the odious NF/BNP leadership were being allowed to use the Old Addeyans FC/ Densitron International PLC clubhouse for their malevolent planning meetings. Breaking the Ben Odeje story via Marc Ashdown of the BBC TV News was a crucial part of this battle for human and civil rights, because it links my own individual, Deptford orientated FOOTBALL AGAINST RACISM IN EUROPE legal case 1991-2013, to my former team mate Ben Odeje of Deptford & Charlton Athletic who 42 years ago became the first black footballer to play for England at any level. The significance of that should be obvious, but it hasn't been, and just yesterday I sent this email to MOPAC professional standards, titled : COMPLAINT AGAINST THE COMMISSIONER OF THE METROPOLIS, BERNARD HOGAN-HOWE
Dear MOPAC
IPCC ref 2013/004376 : MOPAC/CC/2012/RH21
On the 16th May 2013 Kathryn Lawcock, Casework manager for the IPCC wrote to inform me that she had reviewed my complaint correspondence dated 21 November 2011, and she considered that the matters that I raised are required to be recorded within the provision of the Police Reform Act 2002 and Regulation 30 of the Police (Complaints & Misconduct) Regulations 2012.
MOPAC should have contacted me within 28 days about the above actions, but you have failed to comply with this legal obligation.
Please comply with the lPCC's findings, and record my complaint against the Commissioner of the Metropolis, Bernard Hogan-Howe so that an in-depth investigation into this critical Thames Gateway, City Challenge development case can at last begin.
The book you mention about Father Diamond was written by two C of E priests Fathers Bomford & Harry Potter too (you couldn't make it up)
It is the unique architecture of St Paul's Deptford, and my lifelong relationship with it, that make it key to Thames Gateway, City Challenge developments. It was this focus on architecture that attracted HRH The Prince of Wales to Deptford before the Mayor's Office at City Hall even existed, and long before London was awarded the 2012 Olympics.
As drummers you may be interested to know that we had a school band at Addey & Stanhope called Stone Idol, which included the drummer Chris Blackwell who went on to play with Robert Plant among others. Two of the guitarists for Stone Idol were Chris Mayer, and Steve Cox, both of whom still play for a local bands i.e Chain.
The art in the Crypt was 'infamous' and after Father Diamond died the C of E's Father Peter Fellowes, and Nick Daubeny the famous film location manager once appointed me as Community Liaison Officer for Deptford/London on the Neil Jordan film for Hollywood Interview with the Vampire: The Vampire Chronicles (1994) at St Paul's Church, Deptford SE8. As an artist I once performed the song The Last of the Great Whales by Andy Barnes at the St Paul's KRAYMAYDAY event in Deptford. Symbolically and physically this solo performance took place between the lines of the top 'Old Boys' of the UK's profession of violence i.e Charlie Kray and Darcus Howe,the Devil's Advocate
The hate that I attracted for opposing the NF/BNP at the Old Addeyans FC/Densitron International PLC clubhouse development led to me becoming the focus of a malevolent campaign of neo-Nazi propaganda both INSIDE 'n' OUT. On June 12th 2013 I wrote this here on the Charlton Life : Ben Odeje thread.... 'Chris Powell should be aware that I engaged the black solicitor Wayne Thompson to deal with case in 1991, and it was he who told me to look after the trial manuscript after we had won 2 not guilty verdicts against the pro NF/BNP prosecution produced by CID Greenwich' ..... During the Regina v Hobson 1991 ILCC trial I responded to the raft of spurious allegations being made against me with these words "the Devil was born in Deptford the son of a Catholic whore, you name it, I've been called it", Judge Smith raised his eyebrows, and smiled when I said those words which clearly shocked the jury, the judge understood perfectly that I was exaggerating my wickedness to the extreme, in the same way that the prosecution were exagerrating their case against me. In his favourable summing up the Judge described me as a "maverick individual". Hard ex-offender Darcus Howe adopted the name the 'Devil's Advocate' in a series of TV programmes on human and civil rights from a black community perspective.
Yesterday's Morning Star gave us a picture titled SINGING FOR UNITY : Stephen Lawrence's mother Doreen launches Unity - A Concert for Stephen Lawrence at London's O2 arena on 29 September. Artists include Emeli Sande, Jamie Cullum etc http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-22949305 Can I ask you to read the comment that I wrote to you here on June 14th which mentions my role as... as a newly qualified Chartered Surveyor for the UNITY PROJECT in the London Borough of Southwark.
This track from SONGS & DREAMS FOR SAD SISTER DEPTFORD proves that I have been SINGING FOR UNITY for many years now
I've had a response from MOPAC, and I'm hoping and praying that one day soon someone will give this old devil 'A CRACK AT REDEMPTION'.
Good words from you in court, Roy! Rather than "a crack at redemption", I think you deserve justice, which is quite different. About Darcus Howe - I remember a TV series in which he went round the country interviewing people about their notions of "class" and "Britishness" - rather good, I thought.
Back to Father Diamond - presumably he died too young to have written his memoirs. I'd like to find out more about his extraordinary life. Would you recommend Bomford and Potter's book?
Thank you for your support with regard to the legal situation, I have been fighting for a FARE JUSTICE NOT VENGEANCE FOCUS for 22 years now, and here is the email that I sent to MOPAC professional standards yesterday :
Subject: COMPLAINT AGAINST THE COMMISIONER OF THE METROPOLIS, BERNARD HOGAN-HOWE : IPCC ref 2013/004376 : MOPAC/CC/2012/RH21
Jason Collins Professional Standards Officer MOPAC CITY HALL, THE QUEEN'S WALK, MORE LONDON, LONDON SE1 2AA
Dear Jason Collins
Thank you for your email dated 19th June 2013, and the associated attached letter dated 18th June 2013.
On the 16th May 2013 the IPCC upheld my appeal against the non-recording of my complaint against the Commissioner Bernard Hogan-Howe, by Stephen Greenhalgh the Deputy Mayor for Policing and Crime.
I would therefore respectfully request that Mr Greenhalgh reverses his original decision, and RECORDS my complaint against the Commissioner, before I start providing you with any evidence of what the Commissioner's Office was aware of, or should have been aware of, with regard to my critical Thames Gateway, City Challenge legal case development 1991-2011 & BEYOND, that had already been referred to previous Met Commissioners, the Home Secretary Theresa May, and her former Police Minister Nick Herbert.
I look forward to receiving the appropriate MOPAC COMPLAINTS AND CONDUCT MATTERS RECORD SHEET signed by Mr Greenhalgh, or the like, in due course.
I'm sure that everybody at City Hall will be pleased to hear that my former Charlton Athletic team mate Benjamin Odeje's story, has broken after 42 years of selective silence. Ben was the first black footballer to play for England at any level http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/55316/ben-odeje . Gary Bland who was the Mayor's campaign manager for Bermondsey, can confirm that Ben's story and my own FARE Kick It Out case for the defence against NF/BNP entry-ism into London's Sporting/Planning Arena 1991-2013 are very closely connected.
I'm from Deptford Church Street, and I knew, and worked closely with Father Diamond, so I've never felt the need to read Bomford & Potter's book, as I've got my own opinions about Father Diamond that are based upon personal experiences.
After many years I'm tired of dealing with the Old Addeyans FC FARE JUSTICE NOT VENGEANCE scenario. Ray Taft was the 1st XI captain when I joined in 1973, and Millwall supporter Dave Bartlett was the Addey & Stanhope School U18s captain who was swimming on the surface of the frozen pool of fascism, that was to be found inside the Old Den at Cold Blow Lane.
NB The email that was sent yesterday to MOPAC professional standards was also Cc to Ben Odeje formerly of Charlton Athletic FC, and Marc Ashdown of BBC TV News who broke Ben's suppressed Deptford story too.
Thanks for the info, Roy. Yes, I'd heard about the recent tragic death in Deptford High Street. I've tracked down a secondhand copy of the Father Diamond book through Amazon, and will let you know how it goes.
You're welcome to the information, as are Charlton Life, and the club itself.
As a former Chartered Surveyor, my role as the site surveyor for the Unity Project in the London Borough of Southwark changed the way that I looked at life in the mid 1980s, and it continues to do so until the present day .
Doreen Lawrence is meeting with the Home Secretary today, to request a judge led inquiry into the smear campaign directed at her family, and friends (like me). I have done my very best to ensure that Met Commissioner Bernard Hogan-Howe will also get an associated Ben Odeje/Charlton Life linked http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/55316/ben-odeje#latest grilling at the London Assembly too.
Today in Erith Library, staff have tabled copies of the Bexley Magazine, the front cover of which is illustrated with a picture of Bexley's Diamond Jubilee Sculpture of QEII, backed up by a Union Jack. Just before the bust was recently unveiled, I was really annoyed (and I said so too) when I discovered that Ian F Payne, the Bexleyheath BID Manager, had 'privatised' the Bexleyheath Town Centre facebook page, and removed my comments linking a high profile City Challenge 'arts lift' event to this very discussion board thread. I didn't let that spoil the event for me entirely, and I really enjoyed singing William Blake's Jerusalem with great gusto.
I hope that you will find something of value in the book about Father Diamond. St Paul's C of E, the 'Pearl in the Heart of Deptford' where Father Diamond is buried, is always worth a visit, as Thomas Archer's architecture is truly both inspired, and inspiring too .
Thanks Roy: good stuff. The biog of Father Diamond has arrived and I have yet to take it out of its transparent wrapper, but admire a collage of local press cuttings on the back cover. One of these reports on the day HRH Jug-Ears went walkabout in Deptford High Street in the early 1980s (were you there, Roy)? Famously he tore up the script and went in to the aptly-named Windsor Castle pub for a refreshing glass of cider and a natter with the locals.
I will indeed revisit St Paul's - I haven't been inside for donkey's years. I'll be back in touch again with observations and questions. Meanwhile, keep the flag flying, and - God Save the Queen.
Roy and MOG - I've just read the book about Father Diamond. It comprises contributions from a range of professional associates including a fascinating insight into Diamond's pastoral work written by Revd Potter, one of his curates. One of the things that struck me was the level of juvenile delinquency and petty criminality in Deptford in the 1970s; the rectory was burgled about fifty times in the first year of Diamond's tenure, yet still he refused to condemn. It's quite possible that his early death was caused in part by the stress of dealing with the case of the murder of a parishioner by two altar boys from St Paul's.
To be honest, I wanted quite a bit more in the way of vivid anecdotes. Cheapest available copies now seem to be £17.85 through Abebooks and £18.81 through Amazon - I'd recommend waiting until you find it in a charity shop for a couple of sovs!
Roy and MOG - I've just read the book about Father Diamond. It comprises contributions from a range of professional associates including a fascinating insight into Diamond's pastoral work written by Revd Potter, one of his curates. One of the things that struck me was the level of juvenile delinquency and petty criminality in Deptford in the 1970s; the rectory was burgled about fifty times in the first year of Diamond's tenure, yet still he refused to condemn. It's quite possible that his early death was caused in part by the stress of dealing with the case of the murder of a parishioner by two altar boys from St Paul's.
Probably no worse than the 60's!!! I lost count of the number of kids that I knew who were either doing "reform school" or Stamford House.
Having said that, 50's were probably no different, etc., etc..
What I meant was it didn't seem to be any better than the 1960s! Hasn't that sort of delinquency reduced over the decades? Is Deptford really as dodgy now as it was 40 or 50 years ago?
What I meant was it didn't seem to be any better than the 1960s! Hasn't that sort of delinquency reduced over the decades? Is Deptford really as dodgy now as it was 40 or 50 years ago?
Why would it have been though, Viewfinder? It was always a deprived area, and always had more than its fair share of "dodgy" characters.
'Twas ever thus, mate.
Still hanker after the place of my birth, though, and of those times. But I think that's an age thing.
What I meant was it didn't seem to be any better than the 1960s! Hasn't that sort of delinquency reduced over the decades? Is Deptford really as dodgy now as it was 40 or 50 years ago?
Why would it have been though, Viewfinder? It was always a deprived area, and always had more than its fair share of "dodgy" characters.
'Twas ever thus, mate.
Still hanker after the place of my birth, though, and of those times. But I think that's an age thing.
Indeed, Eddie, but imagine having your gaff burgled 50 times in one year! I live locally but haven't had a good look round Deptford for quite a while, so am planning a visit on a Wednesday soon: the market, St Paul's and St Nick's, Mechanic's Path, the bits by the Creek, the Dog & Bell....
What I meant was it didn't seem to be any better than the 1960s! Hasn't that sort of delinquency reduced over the decades? Is Deptford really as dodgy now as it was 40 or 50 years ago?
Why would it have been though, Viewfinder? It was always a deprived area, and always had more than its fair share of "dodgy" characters.
'Twas ever thus, mate.
Still hanker after the place of my birth, though, and of those times. But I think that's an age thing.
Indeed, Eddie, but imagine having your gaff burgled 50 times in one year! I live locally but haven't had a good look round Deptford for quite a while, so am planning a visit on a Wednesday soon: the market, St Paul's and St Nick's, Mechanic's Path, the bits by the Creek, the Dog & Bell....
Look at it another way though, mate. That's not even once a week!
Most disappointed with the market last time I was down there. Not that long ago, either.
What I meant was it didn't seem to be any better than the 1960s! Hasn't that sort of delinquency reduced over the decades? Is Deptford really as dodgy now as it was 40 or 50 years ago?
Why would it have been though, Viewfinder? It was always a deprived area, and always had more than its fair share of "dodgy" characters.
'Twas ever thus, mate.
Still hanker after the place of my birth, though, and of those times. But I think that's an age thing.
Indeed, Eddie, but imagine having your gaff burgled 50 times in one year! I live locally but haven't had a good look round Deptford for quite a while, so am planning a visit on a Wednesday soon: the market, St Paul's and St Nick's, Mechanic's Path, the bits by the Creek, the Dog & Bell....
I have been keeping Ben Odeje fully informed via text & email with regard to the critical Thames Gateway, City Challenge developments that are featuring here on this thread :
The late Canon David Diamond was the Vicar of St Paul's in Deptford Church Street SE8, and he was also the C of E's Guardian of Walsingham. I asked Father Diamond if we could invite HRH to Deptford to support our regeneration plans for Deptford Power Station & Creekside, plus Deptford High Street, and all the other undeveloped bomb sites and rubbish dumps that were still in place. Addey & Stanhope School's Steve Pratt can confirm that Canon Diamond sent a piece of my poetry to St James's Palace and Prince Charles visited Deptford to open our FIRST PREMISE, St Paul's Court in July 1988 :
SE8 MATE
DIRTY SMELLY DEPTFORD. HOW WE LOVE YOU SO. THE POWER THAT ONCE CAME FROM YOU. HAS LONG CEASED TO FLOW. ARCHER'S DREAM NO LONGER DWARFED. 16 ACRES FREE. A FUTURE KING FINDS HIS LAND. AND PLACE IN HISTORY.
Canon Diamond and I are both recorded as being professional Thames Gateway contributors to the Civic Trust report which preceded Deptford City Challenge.
I was invited to St James Palace by Stephen Couling, and Dr Brian Hanson of The Prince of Wales’ Institute of Architecture, and I was shortlisted for their course at Oxford, Rome and Villa Lante, which unfortunately never happened because I was arrested following a dispute at the Old Addeyans FC/ Densitron International PLC development. Regina v Hobson 1991 and two not guilty verdicts followed before Judge Smith at the ILCC.
My individual case for the defence against NF/BNP entry-ism into London's Sporting/Planning arena as evidenced by my FOOTBALL AGAINST RACISM IN EUROPE (FARE) 1991-2011 case focus is with our ConDem Nation Home Secretary after John Austin, the former leader of Greenwich Council, and my former MP for Erith & Thamesmead wrote to her about the case. David Evennett my new Bexleyheath & Crayford MP also wrote to the Home Secretary to express his concerns about the case too. The resulting delayed response from the Police Minister Nick Herbert has subsequently caused extreme mental distress, loss of the right of Judicial Review, and finger pointing from both sides of the House of Commons with each side blaming the other for the loss of my human and civil rights 1991-2011.
It is quite possible that the enormous stress of the case involving two Deptford altar boys, and the murder of a member of his congregation, contributed to Father Diamond's early death, because as the C of E's Anglo-Catholic Guardian of Walsingham, he became an SOS FOCUS 999 for the entire history of sexual abuse within the Catholic Church (not just the C of E). Father Diamond gave me a giant wooden rosary which I handed to Father Tony Pyle at Our Lady of the Rosary Blackfen before I was accepted into the Catholic Church by Richard Moth, Bishop of the Armed Forces, who was the Canon Lawyer who dealt with the annulment of my first marriage. I know from personal experience that Bishop Richard Moth's priestly intervention can bring peace into what was once a war zone.
RIP Father Diamond, & RIP Father Tony Pyle too
Our Lady of the Rosary pray for us!
PAPA VERO ORA PRO NOBIS!
NB I would consider the exclusion of the UK's top Cardinal Keith O'Brien, by Pope Benedict XVI, from the recent conclave in Rome to elect his successor Pope Francis, to be the ultimate judgement on powerful men with the Jimmy Savile mentality who were allowed to abuse the boys and girls of my generation, and all the generations that preceded us too.
What I meant was it didn't seem to be any better than the 1960s! Hasn't that sort of delinquency reduced over the decades? Is Deptford really as dodgy now as it was 40 or 50 years ago?
Why would it have been though, Viewfinder? It was always a deprived area, and always had more than its fair share of "dodgy" characters.
'Twas ever thus, mate.
Still hanker after the place of my birth, though, and of those times. But I think that's an age thing.
Indeed, Eddie, but imagine having your gaff burgled 50 times in one year! I live locally but haven't had a good look round Deptford for quite a while, so am planning a visit on a Wednesday soon: the market, St Paul's and St Nick's, Mechanic's Path, the bits by the Creek, the Dog & Bell....
Comments
Lovely man, very commited to Deptford.
Father Diamond & I worked together, have a good look at the Millennium Quay facebook page http://www.facebook.com/MillenniumQuay?fref=ts to be contd
LenGlover - I respect anonymity on sites like this, but I am also wary of it too. Before I got kicked off of Millwall's House of Fun www.hof.org.uk site, I had run ins with the anonymous 'Gazza', who was directly linked the leadership of the BNP, and another fascist Millwall & England supporter 'Bermondsey Male Choir' aka John Davies, who branded me Mr 666. Here is a response that I , Roy Hobson aka "Vesper" made at the time, and which significantly was posted by Father Finigan on his blog http://the-hermeneutic-of-continuity...mentalism.html
supaclive - Thank you for asking, as you can probably gather from the posts here I am surviving, but fighting for my life in every sense. You and superdulvertonred both have the advantage of anonymity, but you're more than welcome to message with me with your AKA if you wish.
Viewfinder & MOG - I grew up at 179 Deptford Church Street, which was 'WRITE NEXT DOOR' to the wonderful architecture that is/was St Paul's, C of E in Deptford, Sir John Betjeman described St Paul's as 'the pearl in the heart of Deptford'. I got to know the C of E's Guardian of Walsingham, Father Diamond of St Paul's very well indeed as not only did he back my RICS qualified proposal, to change the planning brief for Deptford Power Station and Creekside, from a light industrial solution to a 'housing, housing, housing, and a hotel' solution, he also used my poetry to invite HRH The Prince of Wales to open St Paul's Court, thereby committing himself to involvement with Thames Gateway, City Challenge at inception. Here's another post from Father Finigan's blog that includes comments from me, Roy Hobson aka "Vesper" http://the-hermeneutic-of-continuity.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/sermon-on-church-architecture.html
Viewfinder - Different Colin Murphys, but both very clever men. The Colin Murphy who was tour manager for Charlton in France 1972, was a brilliant Irishman who combined teaching ( I think at South East London School) with his love of football.
I admire your charitable work, but would rather not be drawn on any other matters.
It's not my place to break the privacy of others without permission though hence my change of mind and editing of my original post.
Nothing any more sinister than that!
St Paul, Bow Common, 1956-60. Apparently the first church in Britain built with the altar in the central space. Radical aesthetics, with boldly exposed materials and industrially produced fittings, and a mosaic frieze by Charles Lutyens. Championed by the great Ian Nairn.
St Dunstan, Stepney. The parish church of the British seagoing empire: the Red Ensign flies permanently from the ragstone tower. Magnificent 13th-century stone arches stride down both sides of the nave.
St Peter, Wapping. High Catholic. A lofty nave of patterned brick and stained glass, adorned with sombre oil paintings and dozens of icons lit by flickering candles.
St John, Bethnal Green, 1828. One of only three churches designed by John Soane. Broad and tall proportions, with a gallery on slender columns, original Victorian pews, and clear glass all round for extra light. An uplifting place.
St Peter, De Beauvoir Town, 1841. Warmly intimate, with a lovely Romanesque chancel.
St Mark, Dalston, 1866. Apparently the largest parish church in London, seating 2,000. Dark and intense, lavishly decorated with much stained glass, glittering mosaics, painted bricks and carved mahogany screens. A revelation.
On one occasion we (PRMD) had fireworks in there: No one told us that they were for outdoor use only. The explosion left me 75% deaf in my right ear (still suffer from this 25 years later) and caused a full scale evacuation from the Crypt. T'was safe to return 30 minutes later. How we laughed....... ;-)
Dear MOPAC
IPCC ref 2013/004376 : MOPAC/CC/2012/RH21
On the 16th May 2013 Kathryn Lawcock, Casework manager for the IPCC wrote to inform me that she had reviewed my complaint correspondence dated 21 November 2011, and she considered that the matters that I raised are required to be recorded within the provision of the Police Reform Act 2002 and Regulation 30 of the Police (Complaints & Misconduct) Regulations 2012.
MOPAC should have contacted me within 28 days about the above actions, but you have failed to comply with this legal obligation.
Please comply with the lPCC's findings, and record my complaint against the Commissioner of the Metropolis, Bernard Hogan-Howe so that an in-depth investigation into this critical Thames Gateway, City Challenge development case can at last begin.
Yours sincerely
Roy Hobson http://www.mixcloud.com/roy-hobson/ aka "Vesper"
Viewfinder & Miserableoldgit
The book you mention about Father Diamond was written by two C of E priests Fathers Bomford & Harry Potter too (you couldn't make it up)
It is the unique architecture of St Paul's Deptford, and my lifelong relationship with it, that make it key to Thames Gateway, City Challenge developments. It was this focus on architecture that attracted HRH The Prince of Wales to Deptford before the Mayor's Office at City Hall even existed, and long before London was awarded the 2012 Olympics.
As drummers you may be interested to know that we had a school band at Addey & Stanhope called Stone Idol, which included the drummer Chris Blackwell who went on to play with Robert Plant among others. Two of the guitarists for Stone Idol were Chris Mayer, and Steve Cox, both of whom still play for a local bands i.e Chain.
The art in the Crypt was 'infamous' and after Father Diamond died the C of E's Father Peter Fellowes, and Nick Daubeny the famous film location manager once appointed me as Community Liaison Officer for Deptford/London on the Neil Jordan film for Hollywood Interview with the Vampire: The Vampire Chronicles (1994) at St Paul's Church, Deptford SE8. As an artist I once performed the song The Last of the Great Whales by Andy Barnes at the St Paul's KRAYMAYDAY event in Deptford. Symbolically and physically this solo performance took place between the lines of the top 'Old Boys' of the UK's profession of violence i.e Charlie Kray and Darcus Howe,the Devil's Advocate
The hate that I attracted for opposing the NF/BNP at the Old Addeyans FC/Densitron International PLC clubhouse development led to me becoming the focus of a malevolent campaign of neo-Nazi propaganda both INSIDE 'n' OUT. On June 12th 2013 I wrote this here on the Charlton Life : Ben Odeje thread.... 'Chris Powell should be aware that I engaged the black solicitor Wayne Thompson to deal with case in 1991, and it was he who told me to look after the trial manuscript after we had won 2 not guilty verdicts against the pro NF/BNP prosecution produced by CID Greenwich' ..... During the Regina v Hobson 1991 ILCC trial I responded to the raft of spurious allegations being made against me with these words "the Devil was born in Deptford the son of a Catholic whore, you name it, I've been called it", Judge Smith raised his eyebrows, and smiled when I said those words which clearly shocked the jury, the judge understood perfectly that I was exaggerating my wickedness to the extreme, in the same way that the prosecution were exagerrating their case against me. In his favourable summing up the Judge described me as a "maverick individual". Hard ex-offender Darcus Howe adopted the name the 'Devil's Advocate' in a series of TV programmes on human and civil rights from a black community perspective.
Yesterday's Morning Star gave us a picture titled SINGING FOR UNITY : Stephen Lawrence's mother Doreen launches Unity - A Concert for Stephen Lawrence at London's O2 arena on 29 September. Artists include Emeli Sande, Jamie Cullum etc http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-22949305 Can I ask you to read the comment that I wrote to you here on June 14th which mentions my role as... as a newly qualified Chartered Surveyor for the UNITY PROJECT in the London Borough of Southwark.
This track from SONGS & DREAMS FOR SAD SISTER DEPTFORD proves that I have been SINGING FOR UNITY for many years now
I've had a response from MOPAC, and I'm hoping and praying that one day soon someone will give this old devil 'A CRACK AT REDEMPTION'.
Back to Father Diamond - presumably he died too young to have written his memoirs. I'd like to find out more about his extraordinary life. Would you recommend Bomford and Potter's book?
Thank you for your support with regard to the legal situation, I have been fighting for a FARE JUSTICE NOT VENGEANCE FOCUS for 22 years now, and here is the email that I sent to MOPAC professional standards yesterday :
Subject: COMPLAINT AGAINST THE COMMISIONER OF THE METROPOLIS, BERNARD HOGAN-HOWE : IPCC ref 2013/004376 : MOPAC/CC/2012/RH21
Jason Collins
Professional Standards Officer
MOPAC
CITY HALL,
THE QUEEN'S WALK,
MORE LONDON,
LONDON SE1 2AA
Dear Jason Collins
Thank you for your email dated 19th June 2013, and the associated attached letter dated 18th June 2013.
On the 16th May 2013 the IPCC upheld my appeal against the non-recording of my complaint against the Commissioner Bernard Hogan-Howe, by Stephen Greenhalgh the Deputy Mayor for Policing and Crime.
I would therefore respectfully request that Mr Greenhalgh reverses his original decision, and RECORDS my complaint against the Commissioner, before I start providing you with any evidence of what the Commissioner's Office was aware of, or should have been aware of, with regard to my critical Thames Gateway, City Challenge legal case development 1991-2011 & BEYOND, that had already been referred to previous Met Commissioners, the Home Secretary Theresa May, and her former Police Minister Nick Herbert.
I look forward to receiving the appropriate MOPAC COMPLAINTS AND CONDUCT MATTERS RECORD SHEET signed by Mr Greenhalgh, or the like, in due course.
I'm sure that everybody at City Hall will be pleased to hear that my former Charlton Athletic team mate Benjamin Odeje's story, has broken after 42 years of selective silence. Ben was the first black footballer to play for England at any level http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/55316/ben-odeje . Gary Bland who was the Mayor's campaign manager for Bermondsey, can confirm that Ben's story and my own FARE Kick It Out case for the defence against NF/BNP entry-ism into London's Sporting/Planning Arena 1991-2013 are very closely connected.
Yours sincerely
Roy Hobson http://www.mixcloud.com/roy-hobson/ aka "Vesper"
I'm from Deptford Church Street, and I knew, and worked closely with Father Diamond, so I've never felt the need to read Bomford & Potter's book, as I've got my own opinions about Father Diamond that are based upon personal experiences.
After many years I'm tired of dealing with the Old Addeyans FC FARE JUSTICE NOT VENGEANCE scenario. Ray Taft was the 1st XI captain when I joined in 1973, and Millwall supporter Dave Bartlett was the Addey & Stanhope School U18s captain who was swimming on the surface of the frozen pool of fascism, that was to be found inside the Old Den at Cold Blow Lane.
Returning to Deptford High Street at the present time to attend exposition the 'Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament', at Our Lady of the Assumption you discover a deeply distressed Anglo-Italian community who are mourning the tragic death of Josie Fazzini http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/lewisham/10458044.Deptford_flat_fire_death__Vietnamese_man_charged_with_murder/ , and that back-up has been called in by the priesthood.
NB The email that was sent yesterday to MOPAC professional standards was also Cc to Ben Odeje formerly of Charlton Athletic FC, and Marc Ashdown of BBC TV News who broke Ben's suppressed Deptford story too.
You're welcome to the information, as are Charlton Life, and the club itself.
As a former Chartered Surveyor, my role as the site surveyor for the Unity Project in the London Borough of Southwark changed the way that I looked at life in the mid 1980s, and it continues to do so until the present day .
Doreen Lawrence is meeting with the Home Secretary today, to request a judge led inquiry into the smear campaign directed at her family, and friends (like me). I have done my very best to ensure that Met Commissioner Bernard Hogan-Howe will also get an associated Ben Odeje/Charlton Life linked http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/55316/ben-odeje#latest grilling at the London Assembly too.
Today in Erith Library, staff have tabled copies of the Bexley Magazine, the front cover of which is illustrated with a picture of Bexley's Diamond Jubilee Sculpture of QEII, backed up by a Union Jack. Just before the bust was recently unveiled, I was really annoyed (and I said so too) when I discovered that Ian F Payne, the Bexleyheath BID Manager, had 'privatised' the Bexleyheath Town Centre facebook page, and removed my comments linking a high profile City Challenge 'arts lift' event to this very discussion board thread. I didn't let that spoil the event for me entirely, and I really enjoyed singing William Blake's Jerusalem with great gusto.
I hope that you will find something of value in the book about Father Diamond. St Paul's C of E, the 'Pearl in the Heart of Deptford' where Father Diamond is buried, is always worth a visit, as Thomas Archer's architecture is truly both inspired, and inspiring too .
God Save the Queen.
I will indeed revisit St Paul's - I haven't been inside for donkey's years. I'll be back in touch again with observations and questions. Meanwhile, keep the flag flying, and - God Save the Queen.
Having said that, 50's were probably no different, etc., etc..
That's Deptford.
'Twas ever thus, mate.
Still hanker after the place of my birth, though, and of those times. But I think that's an age thing.
Most disappointed with the market last time I was down there. Not that long ago, either.
May join you if I may ?
I have been keeping Ben Odeje fully informed via text & email with regard to the critical Thames Gateway, City Challenge developments that are featuring here on this thread :
Here is the picture of me with HRH The Prince of Wales when he visited Deptford to open St Paul's Court in the 1987/88 season http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150560375714569&set=pb.540164568.-2207520000.1372671628.&type=3&theater, and here is the comment that I wrote next to it on November 16th 2011 :
The late Canon David Diamond was the Vicar of St Paul's in Deptford Church Street SE8, and he was also the C of E's Guardian of Walsingham. I asked Father Diamond if we could invite HRH to Deptford to support our regeneration plans for Deptford Power Station & Creekside, plus Deptford High Street, and all the other undeveloped bomb sites and rubbish dumps that were still in place. Addey & Stanhope School's Steve Pratt can confirm that Canon Diamond sent a piece of my poetry to St James's Palace and Prince Charles visited Deptford to open our FIRST PREMISE, St Paul's Court in July 1988 :
SE8 MATE
DIRTY SMELLY DEPTFORD.
HOW WE LOVE YOU SO.
THE POWER THAT ONCE CAME FROM YOU.
HAS LONG CEASED TO FLOW.
ARCHER'S DREAM NO LONGER DWARFED.
16 ACRES FREE.
A FUTURE KING FINDS HIS LAND.
AND PLACE IN HISTORY.
Canon Diamond and I are both recorded as being professional Thames Gateway contributors to the Civic Trust report which preceded Deptford City Challenge.
I was invited to St James Palace by Stephen Couling, and Dr Brian Hanson of The Prince of Wales’ Institute of Architecture, and I was shortlisted for their course at Oxford, Rome and Villa Lante, which unfortunately never happened because I was arrested following a dispute at the Old Addeyans FC/ Densitron International PLC development. Regina v Hobson 1991 and two not guilty verdicts followed before Judge Smith at the ILCC.
My individual case for the defence against NF/BNP entry-ism into London's Sporting/Planning arena as evidenced by my FOOTBALL AGAINST RACISM IN EUROPE (FARE) 1991-2011 case focus is with our ConDem Nation Home Secretary after John Austin, the former leader of Greenwich Council, and my former MP for Erith & Thamesmead wrote to her about the case. David Evennett my new Bexleyheath & Crayford MP also wrote to the Home Secretary to express his concerns about the case too. The resulting delayed response from the Police Minister Nick Herbert has subsequently caused extreme mental distress, loss of the right of Judicial Review, and finger pointing from both sides of the House of Commons with each side blaming the other for the loss of my human and civil rights 1991-2011.
Here is a facebook link to a critical City Challenge regeneration project in Bexley http://www.facebook.com/pages/Larner-Road-Regeneration/134486906624144
The Larner Road Estate is the very poor neighbour to Bexley Athletic Club's Erith Stadium with it's exciting Olympic 2012 focus.
Our Lady of the Rosary ( http://the-hermeneutic-of-continuity.blogspot.com/2011/05/visit-to-tomb-of-blessed-john-paul-ii.html ) pray for us!
PAPA VERO ORA PRO NOBIS!
ROY HOBSON CInstCES1990, RICS1984, Grad Dipl QS.
It is quite possible that the enormous stress of the case involving two Deptford altar boys, and the murder of a member of his congregation, contributed to Father Diamond's early death, because as the C of E's Anglo-Catholic Guardian of Walsingham, he became an SOS FOCUS 999 for the entire history of sexual abuse within the Catholic Church (not just the C of E). Father Diamond gave me a giant wooden rosary which I handed to Father Tony Pyle at Our Lady of the Rosary Blackfen before I was accepted into the Catholic Church by Richard Moth, Bishop of the Armed Forces, who was the Canon Lawyer who dealt with the annulment of my first marriage. I know from personal experience that Bishop Richard Moth's priestly intervention can bring peace into what was once a war zone.
RIP Father Diamond, & RIP Father Tony Pyle too
Our Lady of the Rosary pray for us!
PAPA VERO ORA PRO NOBIS!
NB I would consider the exclusion of the UK's top Cardinal Keith O'Brien, by Pope Benedict XVI, from the recent conclave in Rome to elect his successor Pope Francis, to be the ultimate judgement on powerful men with the Jimmy Savile mentality who were allowed to abuse the boys and girls of my generation, and all the generations that preceded us too.