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Argentina ban away fans

cafcfancafcfan
in Other Football and Sports
Following another death of a supporter Argentina have now stopped away supporters from attending matches. This is throughout their league system.
bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-22864505
I can't imagine the negative effect that would have to the whole match-day experience.

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    se9addickse9addick
    cafcfan said:

    Following another death of a supporter Argentina have now stopped away supporters from attending matches. This is throughout their league system.
    bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-22864505
    I can't imagine the negative effect that would have to the whole match-day experience.

    Probably less negative than dying.

    Argentina has major problems, the clubs in the Buenos Aries capital region have incredible security regulations similar to airports.
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    BIG_ROBBIG_ROB
    se9addick said:

    cafcfan said:

    Following another death of a supporter Argentina have now stopped away supporters from attending matches. This is throughout their league system.
    bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-22864505
    I can't imagine the negative effect that would have to the whole match-day experience.

    Probably less negative than dying.

    Argentina has major problems, the clubs in the Buenos Aries capital region have incredible security regulations similar to airports.
    What like 10kg Max luggage etc?
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    RedPandaRedPanda
    A mate wasn't allowed into a River Plate game because he failed a breathalyser test, having only had a couple. It's not quite airport bad but you get checked for guns and I've seen piles of belts where they've had to be removed on entrance. Then people grabbing them on the way out and starting to run around the stadium.

    This will probably only end up creating more trouble. There are about a dozen clubs in Buenos Aires, therefore most away games are within easy reach. This will just mean no segregation or trouble at the turnstiles, if someone like Velez Sarsfield are playing a few miles away at Tigre or wherever, there is no way all of their fans are going to be sat watching it on TV. As is often the case in football, it's just as much a societal problem.
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    Chris_from_SidcupChris_from_Sidcup
    Argie football is crazy, barely a week goes by without some kind of crowd trouble. The Estudiantes game wasn't even the only game abandoned this weekend, Velez had a game abandoned too which will be replayed behind closed doors today. There was trouble at River v Independiente too. Probably be trouble this weekend too because one of their biggest and most successful sides Independiente are about to be relegated for the first time in their history and that won't go down well.

    As RedPanda says, not sure what banning away fans will do, as fans will just kick off outside or start riots v police inside.
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    Brendan_O_ConnellBrendan_O_Connell
    BIG_ROB said:

    se9addick said:

    cafcfan said:

    Following another death of a supporter Argentina have now stopped away supporters from attending matches. This is throughout their league system.
    bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-22864505
    I can't imagine the negative effect that would have to the whole match-day experience.

    Probably less negative than dying.

    Argentina has major problems, the clubs in the Buenos Aries capital region have incredible security regulations similar to airports.
    What like 10kg Max luggage etc?
    Ha!
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    RedPandaRedPanda
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:

    Argie football is crazy, barely a week goes by without some kind of crowd trouble. The Estudiantes game wasn't even the only game abandoned this weekend, Velez had a game abandoned too which will be replayed behind closed doors today. There was trouble at River v Independiente too. Probably be trouble this weekend too because one of their biggest and most successful sides Independiente are about to be relegated for the first time in their history and that won't go down well.

    Where do you keep up with the news? I'm a bit out of touch, I just check Soccerway now and again to look at results and the table.

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    Chris_from_SidcupChris_from_Sidcup
    http://www.argentinesoccer.com
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    ValleyGaryValleyGary
    It seems that a lot of their top clubs have the ability to get relegated. Didnt River Plate get relegated a couple of seasons ago and they changed the whole format of the league? Is their season not a straight league format like ours?
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    se9addickse9addick
    BIG_ROB said:

    se9addick said:

    cafcfan said:

    Following another death of a supporter Argentina have now stopped away supporters from attending matches. This is throughout their league system.
    bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-22864505
    I can't imagine the negative effect that would have to the whole match-day experience.

    Probably less negative than dying.

    Argentina has major problems, the clubs in the Buenos Aries capital region have incredible security regulations similar to airports.
    What like 10kg Max luggage etc?
    Haha !
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    MrOneLungMrOneLung
    cafcfan said:

    Following another death of a supporter Argentina have now stopped away supporters from attending matches. This is throughout their league system.
    bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-22864505
    I can't imagine the negative effect that would have to the whole match-day experience.

    Be like playing Wigan at home.

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    cafctomcafctom
    ValleyGary said:

    It seems that a lot of their top clubs have the ability to get relegated. Didnt River Plate get relegated a couple of seasons ago and they changed the whole format of the league? Is their season not a straight league format like ours?

    Much different from ours when it comes to relegation. The bottom team goes down along with the two teams who have the worse three year averages.

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    Chris_from_SidcupChris_from_Sidcup
    ValleyGary said:

    It seems that a lot of their top clubs have the ability to get relegated. Didnt River Plate get relegated a couple of seasons ago and they changed the whole format of the league? Is their season not a straight league format like ours?


    Up until a couple of years ago, 3 sides (Boca, River and Independiente) had never been relegated. The system they use (average points per game over a 3 year period) made it almost impossible for big clubs to get relegated and was brought in years ago for that very reason. However River went down and Independiente are about to drop too

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    RedPandaRedPanda
    Cheers for that link, Chris!
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    NicholasNicholas
    The players are as bad as the fans

    Argentina's World Cup clash in Ecuador was marred by a bizarre incident when Javier Mascherano was sent off for kicking the driver of a medical cart.

    The 29-year-old Barcelona midfielder appeared to have water thrown at him as he was being taken off the pitch, after picking up a knock, and then kicked the medical staff member navigating the cart.

    Referee Enrique Caceres showed Argentina's captain a red card in the 86th minute which led to angry scenes on the touchline.

    The match in Quito finished 1-1.

    Manchester City's Sergio Aguero opened the scoring from the penalty spot after four minutes before Segundo Castillo equalised 13 minutes later.

    Argentina still lead the standings in the South America qualifying group on 26 points, three ahead of second-placed Colombia.
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    DRFDRF
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:

    Argie football is crazy, barely a week goes by without some kind of crowd trouble. The Estudiantes game wasn't even the only game abandoned this weekend, Velez had a game abandoned too which will be replayed behind closed doors today. There was trouble at River v Independiente too. Probably be trouble this weekend too because one of their biggest and most successful sides Independiente are about to be relegated for the first time in their history and that won't go down well.

    As RedPanda says, not sure what banning away fans will do, as fans will just kick off outside or start riots v police inside.

    Is it not just a case of having to do something. It may not be the perfect solution but it means the trouble goes outside where the police deal with it like a 'normal' riot, rather than inside a stadium with the inherent problems that brings.

    Like English football violence - you have to change culture and that takes a long time and often means very strict harsh changes at firsat which can be relaxed when the culture is different. The ony reason we can debate a return to standing at football now is because of radical changes in the past.
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    RedPandaRedPanda
    A lot of the time the trouble is outside though, when River got relegated it was outside that it really kicked off. Grounds are relatively well segregated as well so when stuff does happen, it's in the surrounding streets.

    It's not so much about the football culture but culture as a whole. Whilst there's talk of Argentina again devaluing their currency, countries like Brazil and Colombia have been going from strength to strength. With poverty comes crime and violence, and football is often used as an outlet for this. Admittedly Brazil and Colombia also see their fair share of trouble...

    As an alternative idea, the only thing I can think of is ID cards if you want to go to away games. It's draconian and I hate the fact they did it in Italy, but it would at least allow some fans to go to away games. I also have no idea how easy (or difficult) it would be to go about that.
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    DRFDRF
    I'm not sure many living in Brazil or Colombia would put themselves in the strength to strength bracket - certainly Brazils zero tollerance policing does not solve the root problems it just punishes it. But I do agree its about culture, and this can be changed, but it is hard.
    If the problem is outside the ground though the I am not sure ID cards is better than a blanket ban? Those who want to cause trouble won't have a card and will go and cause trouble anyway?
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    ValleyGaryValleyGary
    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/soccer-dirty-tackle/argentinean-player-sent-off-throwing-dog-off-field-144536031.html
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    ChicagoAddickChicagoAddick
    When I was at a River Plate game two fans were shot before the game. River fans attacking their own fans.

    http://chicagoaddick.wordpress.com/2011/07/06/river-plate-memories/
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    RedPandaRedPanda
    DRF said:

    I'm not sure many living in Brazil or Colombia would put themselves in the strength to strength bracket - certainly Brazils zero tollerance policing does not solve the root problems it just punishes it. But I do agree its about culture, and this can be changed, but it is hard.
    If the problem is outside the ground though the I am not sure ID cards is better than a blanket ban? Those who want to cause trouble won't have a card and will go and cause trouble anyway?

    Yeah, it is a very complex issue. Whilst those 2 countries have got better economically, it's also created a greater division between the rich and poor. Violence at football is endemic over there, I vaguely remember reading about deaths at Argentine games even back in the 1920s and as you say, ID cards wouldn't help outside the ground anyway!
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