He looked shorter than Warwick Davis at Dartford. No chance of him playing for the first team and have no doubt he'll be gone once the 5 months are up.
I too was at Dartford and once I'd got over the surprise of his mascot-like stature, I was struck by a very strange optical illusion - As the play developed and the closer he came to my vantage point on the terraces, the smaller he appeared. Explain that one, please. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I think an unfortunate effect of the academy system generally is that it breeds ball-players to the detriment of physical strength. I recall our FA Cup game at home to non-league Luton a few seasons ago when several youngsters were playing, and Luton simply muscled them aside: agriculturally, but perfectly lawfully. We scraped a 1-1 draw. Let's face it - Our mature first-team midfielders are weak enough as it is.
Thinking like that is the reason our big strong England players watch the ball getting passed round them at major tournaments
He looked shorter than Warwick Davis at Dartford. No chance of him playing for the first team and have no doubt he'll be gone once the 5 months are up.
I too was at Dartford and once I'd got over the surprise of his mascot-like stature, I was struck by a very strange optical illusion - As the play developed and the closer he came to my vantage point on the terraces, the smaller he appeared. Explain that one, please. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I think an unfortunate effect of the academy system generally is that it breeds ball-players to the detriment of physical strength. I recall our FA Cup game at home to non-league Luton a few seasons ago when several youngsters were playing, and Luton simply muscled them aside: agriculturally, but perfectly lawfully. We scraped a 1-1 draw. Let's face it - Our mature first-team midfielders are weak enough as it is.
Thinking like that is the reason our big strong England players watch the ball getting passed round them at major tournaments
Spot on
Echo this. Hope Jack can be the missing link we have been craving.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I think an unfortunate effect of the academy system generally is that it breeds ball-players to the detriment of physical strength.
I don't see that as being unfortunate.
In the article I wrote for the Trust on academies I pointed out that this was deliberate and was producing a generation of shorter than average playmakers across Europe who in previous eras might have been discarded before they had an opportunity. Increasingly players are being inducted into footballing academies across Europe purely on their footballing ability not on whether they meet physical attributes such as height and bulk, which when you are dealing with pre-adolescent children is irrelevant. The idea is that those with the best natural ability are being given the chance to develop their skills and when in their mid-teens they start to develop physically they can then add strength and bulk - but that comes after they have first learnt to play the game.
Clearly academies should produce players who are both technically proficient and physically strong. To those on this thread who cite Lionel Messi as a successful smallish midfielder - I have seen Jack Munns play and I can assure you he is not Lionel Messi. The Championship is a tough and physical league, as we will see again this season. Only a small proportion of academy players advance to the first team, and I don't see the point of giving a five-month contract to a 20-year-old midfielder who starts at a physical disadvantage.
Saw him in U-21 pre-season friendlies at Maidstone and Dartford. Seemed a decent ball-playing midfielder, but honestly I'm not sure he's got the physical strength to make it to the top.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I think an unfortunate effect of the academy system generally is that it breeds ball-players to the detriment of physical strength.
I don't see that as being unfortunate.
In the article I wrote for the Trust on academies I pointed out that this was deliberate and was producing a generation of shorter than average playmakers across Europe who in previous eras might have been discarded before they had an opportunity. Increasingly players are being inducted into footballing academies across Europe purely on their footballing ability not on whether they meet physical attributes such as height and bulk, which when you are dealing with pre-adolescent children is irrelevant. The idea is that those with the best natural ability are being given the chance to develop their skills and when in their mid-teens they start to develop physically they can then add strength and bulk - but that comes after they have first learnt to play the game.
Clearly academies should produce players who are both technically proficient and physically strong. To those on this thread who cite Lionel Messi as a successful smallish midfielder - I have seen Jack Munns play and I can assure you he is not Lionel Messi. The Championship is a tough and physical league, as we will see again this season. Only a small proportion of academy players advance to the first team, and I don't see the point of giving a five-month contract to a 20-year-old midfielder who starts at a physical disadvantage.
You say that he is very young Seth but he is 20 in November, which is not that young as quite a few players are playing first team football at his age.
Very true, but he is 19 at the moment, and still inexperienced somewhat in first team football. I would enjoy seeing him in the first team, providing the existence of the club didn't depend on it.
What's happened to Jack Munns? i noticed he played in the U21 game yesterday. Could he be what we need in midfield at the moment? Is he worth a place on the bench at least?
What's happened to Jack Munns? i noticed he played in the U21 game yesterday. Could he be what we need in midfield at the moment? Is he worth a place on the bench at least?
Never seen the kid play, but i'm starting to learn that with this new U21 / Development squad approach, there is a big degree of 'squad fillers' being taken on on low wages that i don't think would have been in squads in the days when there was a proper reserve league. Its a low risk punt, but more often than not, its not going to bear any fruit.
i suspect Munns fits into this category (stress again, never seen him play)
Saw him against Millwall couple of weeks ago for the 21's. Didn't impress me at all to be honest, and NO I'm not anti 'small' players! Definitely not what we need at the moment....
Jack is a useful player from what I have seen in U-21 games - not the 'biggest', but a decent player in centre-mid, always 'available', uses the ball well, and has scored a few too.
hold on hold on ------------dont forget we are signing 3 players in the loan window -----we just have to wait until everyone esle has their go first is all
hold on hold on ------------dont forget we are signing 3 players in the loan window -----we just have to wait until everyone esle has their go first is all
Trouble is the three players are Best- gone to the Massives, Williams- Palarse do not want to release him, SWP- doesn't want to move here.
If you look at Cousins (and to a lesser degree Poyet on current evidence) they both have an element of physicality in addition to their undoubted skill, and frankly that is a necessary component to the modern game in Britain for all but the most skilful of players (and even they are often accompanied by a 'destroyer' type anyway.) Small players can be physically competitive of course - Chris Perry was short but very rarely was he beaten to a header - but we are in a literal as well as metaphorical scrap against relegation. A 'luxury' midfielder is the last thing we need, in the middle at least. If you look at AA coming into the midfield, yes he can pass and he's got some good skills, BUT he is a unit besides, and that's what we need at the moment.
If you look at Cousins (and to a lesser degree Poyet on current evidence) they both have an element of physicality in addition to their undoubted skill, and frankly that is a necessary component to the modern game in Britain for all but the most skilful of players (and even they are often accompanied by a 'destroyer' type anyway.) Small players can be physically competitive of course - Chris Perry was short but very rarely was he beaten to a header - but we are in a literal as well as metaphorical scrap against relegation. A 'luxury' midfielder is the last thing we need, in the middle at least. If you look at AA coming into the midfield, yes he can pass and he's got some good skills, BUT he is a unit besides, and that's what we need at the moment.
I'd say it's exactky what we need, a bit of flair rather than a rigid midfield.
If you look at Cousins (and to a lesser degree Poyet on current evidence) they both have an element of physicality in addition to their undoubted skill, and frankly that is a necessary component to the modern game in Britain for all but the most skilful of players (and even they are often accompanied by a 'destroyer' type anyway.) Small players can be physically competitive of course - Chris Perry was short but very rarely was he beaten to a header - but we are in a literal as well as metaphorical scrap against relegation. A 'luxury' midfielder is the last thing we need, in the middle at least. If you look at AA coming into the midfield, yes he can pass and he's got some good skills, BUT he is a unit besides, and that's what we need at the moment.
I'd say it's exactky what we need, a bit of flair rather than a rigid midfield.
I would agree... but only to an extent - hence my example of Astrid Adspellingvic. He has flair, but ALSO physical prowess. Having too much of one over the other is not beneficial in the situation we are in, hence Hughes who has the combativeness but not a wide range of defence splitting passing and the likes of Harriot or Green, who have skill but little tackling/tracking ability/inclination are peripheral while the likes of Cousins and Poyet come in over their heads, combining the best of both worlds.
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You don't say...
i suspect Munns fits into this category (stress again, never seen him play)
Definitely not what we need at the moment....