Euthanasia

Absurdistan

Never realised it was so available and widespread in Europe although remember reading that it was available in Switzerland.
Don't worry, not looking for such a service even after some of our home performances.
But it does beg the question why we aren't able to partake of such a service under any circumstances. There have been a few examples in recent years of people living through horrendous circumstances yet refused by our top judges.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100239650/door-to-door-death-units-belgium-and-holland-abandon-humanity-as-they-embrace-euthanasia/

DRAddick

It will happen here eventually but our Politicians are gutless and don't want to be seen as the ones to make such a big (apparently) controversial decision. The reactionary media using headlines like the above "....abandon humanity...." don't help and keep them scared as well.
The cynic in me would also suggest that it's cheaper to euthanize someone than keep them alive. Wouldn't want the politicians on the boards of certain companies and their mates losing money would we?

legaladdick

Without wishing to enter into the morality of this topic, it is important not to be confused by the difference between assisted suicide (I help you take the final step which results in YOU taking your own life) and 'euthanasia' which is a polite way of saying 'murder' with the consent of the deceased. In this country (and many others) the fact that a person wishes to be killed does not absolve the other from the crime of murder. Here is a link to a famous example of the latter:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes
Best not to eat any sausages for a while!!!

Bearing in mind that politicians in this country have refused even to consider reversing the law on assisted suicide (resulting in 'exports' to Switzerland) the idea that ANY party will agree this proposal is sheer fantasy.

DRAddick

Euthanasia is not a polite way of saying 'murder with consent' and its definition is specific to medical practice. Murder is a technical legal description and can never be legal. Describing Euthanasia as such is a personal moralistic definition not a legal one.

Stig

It just means a gentle and easy death and is something to be recommended, "But let me prescribe, and commend to thee, my sonne, this true spirituall meanes of thine happy Euthanasia"
Joseph Hall, The balme of Gilead or Comforts for the distressed, 1646.

MeebaumAzanitch

Wasn't Euthanasia one of the daughters of the Tsar thought to have survived assassination by the Bolshevics in 1918!

maybe_baby

Thought it was an airline.

legaladdick

DRA
First I was seeking to clarify the confusion surrounding assisted suicide and the link to a blog which discussed 'euthanasia' (which word by the way is not defined as 'specific to medical practice' as you assert.) To the extent that there is no legal definition in this country for 'euthanasia' (as far as I am aware), my description is not a legal one but I can assure you that it is certainly not 'a personal moralistic one'. You seem to have overlooked that I deliberately put the word 'murder' in quotes to emphasise that I was describing what would otherwise be murder under current legal practice in this country, whether performed by a doctor or anyone else. You may have seen another thread where I mentioned the case of the conjoined twins and the dilemma there for the doctors.
I think both Meebaum and maybe_baby are also correct and I must admit to some confusion as I initially thought it referred to young people from the far east:-)

Time to prepare for the game...

tangoflash

maybe_baby said:

Thought it was an airline.

Can picture it now. A plane full of patients, all hoping a suicide bomber is on board.............

guinnessaddick

Death doesn't frighten me, dieing does.

dizzee

'Whose life is it anyway' is a good little film on this topic if you can get hold of it. There is also the book which is worth a go.

WSS

The BBC documentary that a Terry Pratchett was involved in was excellent as well.

DRAddick

legaladdick said:

DRA
First I was seeking to clarify the confusion surrounding assisted suicide and the link to a blog which discussed 'euthanasia' (which word by the way is not defined as 'specific to medical practice' as you assert.) To the extent that there is no legal definition in this country for 'euthanasia' (as far as I am aware), my description is not a legal one but I can assure you that it is certainly not 'a personal moralistic one'. You seem to have overlooked that I deliberately put the word 'murder' in quotes to emphasise that I was describing what would otherwise be murder under current legal practice in this country, whether performed by a doctor or anyone else. You may have seen another thread where I mentioned the case of the conjoined twins and the dilemma there for the doctors.
I think both Meebaum and maybe_baby are also correct and I must admit to some confusion as I initially thought it referred to young people from the far east:-)

Time to prepare for the game...

There is no legal definition of Euthanasia because it isn't accepted and defined by law here. There is the English dictionary definition in which it is defined as a medical practice and so at this time is really all we can accept as a definition in this country. I understand you were pointing out differences and apologise if I misunderstood the tone of your post but putting murder in '...' is irrelivent. Something is either murder or it isn't. But then I understand you legal types have a way of writing that is ambiguities so you can defend your being wrong later ;-)

MuttleyCAFC

A painful protracted death frightens me. When this is inevitable, and only when this is the case - and the individual wants it at three different points (so it isn't a decision made on a particularly bad day) - then it should be available!

addick2000

Its interesting that the drug most commonly used 'Nembutal' is used by vets to put animals out of their misery. Legally available in Mexico, but not allowed to be imported into this country, Australia. Not sure about other countries. I've seen a video of the place in Switzerland that does help people in need, but it should be up to the individual rather than go to other countries or obtain drugs illegally.

cafcfan

A guy I worked with since the 1970s and am still in touch with regularly had personal experience of the issues involved. He has a relative who was prosecuted for assisting the suicide of her daughter. There's a bleak and heart-rending analysis of the issues here. theguardian.com/uk/2010/jan/25/kay-gilderdale-devoted-mother
It was an extremely difficult situation for all the family. The article also has a link to the guidelines that were put in place by the CPS.
Oddly, another friend's uncle was, (and as far as I know, still is) the only Doctor to have been charged and convicted of attempted murder in a euthanasia case in the UK. It perhaps tells you all you need to know that he retained the support of the patient's family throughout the trial. I believe he got a 12-month suspended sentence.

All I can add is that I find it easy to imagine plenty of circumstances where I'd want someone to help me to end it all with as much dignity as possible. I'm not sure the clinic in Switzerland, which looks like a shabby dump, is exactly the location I'd have in mind to spend my final moments though.

Huskaris

It's almost discriminatory. If I wanted to kill myself I could go to the top of a high building and jump off. These people are too ill to do that, something ironic about the fact that when you are healthy (in terms of body) you have every opportunity to kill yourself but when you are bed ridden, you don't.

I saw a documentary on dignitas which included them showing a guy from the UK go through with it. Seemed quite... I dunno... Disturbing but then I suppose death always is and he got what he wanted.

Ormiston_Addick

I read a really brilliant piece on this in The New Yorker magazine, written by the daughter of a Dutch guy in Amsterdam who was terminally ill and decided he did not want to live through the indignity of cancer (he was in his late 80s) so opted for euthanasia (I just tried to find the piece but can't bloody find it!).

It was one of the most confronting things I have ever read, really shook me up, but I had profound respect for the guy in question who said that he had lived a good life and had no wish to live his last days in pain and lose his dignity through the illness.

So, he brought all his family together for a final week together and they kissed him goodbye as two Doctors arrived to do the necessary in the early hours of the morning.

I can't imagine having the courage to do that in a million years but huge respect to the gentleman who did.

sralan

First hand experience of this as it is legal in the Netherlands. There are two choices, the first is an injection that will end your life within 10 minutes. If you chose this, there are a few legal proceedings to go through and it takes about 3 days before authorisation. The other choice is to have an injection of a sleeping drug and a morphine drip. This puts the patient into a sleep then coma and eventually death. The length of time this takes can vary, depending on the individual. My father chose the second option after the pain and suffering caused by that bastard disease cancer finally got too much to bear. It was obviously a difficult decision for all, but we respected his wishes as the suffering must have been unbelievably bad for him to make this choice. It took him just over a day to die peacefully.
I personally think people have the right to die with dignity. We will put an animal out of it's misery but with humans we prolong the agony and suffering, often leading to a very undignified and painful death. Crazy !!

sillav nitram

legaladdick said:

Without wishing to enter into the morality of this topic, it is important not to be confused by the difference between assisted suicide (I help you take the final step which results in YOU taking your own life) and 'euthanasia' which is a polite way of saying 'murder' with the consent of the deceased. In this country (and many others) the fact that a person wishes to be killed does not absolve the other from the crime of murder. Here is a link to a famous example of the latter:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes
Best not to eat any sausages for a while!!!

Bearing in mind that politicians in this country have refused even to consider reversing the law on assisted suicide (resulting in 'exports' to Switzerland) the idea that ANY party will agree this proposal is sheer fantasy.

how gruesome.

it's interesting that they call for consideration of assisted suicide for only those that have a terminal physical illness. well as someone who suffers with mental health nightmares, i'd ask the question what about us? aren't we often living in terminally ill states of a mental kind? i've made attempts on my life because of the mental anguish i've often found myself in, shouldn't i be allowed to make that decision as well?

it's also interesting that huskaris suggests that he could go to the top of a tall building and throw himself off. i couldn't do that and can't ever imagine having the courage to do so but do believe, i could if offered, take something to drink or maybe an injection, an humane method, without having to resort to splattering myself on the pavement or road.

i often feel i should have the right to die, rather than live with my illness, after all what's the problem, i'd be dead. it's only those left behind who don't want to be left with the anguish, who in my eyes, continue the devastation that someone is left in, if having a terminal illness whether it be physical or mental?

Henry Irving

sillav nitram said:

legaladdick said:

Without wishing to enter into the morality of this topic, it is important not to be confused by the difference between assisted suicide (I help you take the final step which results in YOU taking your own life) and 'euthanasia' which is a polite way of saying 'murder' with the consent of the deceased. In this country (and many others) the fact that a person wishes to be killed does not absolve the other from the crime of murder. Here is a link to a famous example of the latter:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes
Best not to eat any sausages for a while!!!

Bearing in mind that politicians in this country have refused even to consider reversing the law on assisted suicide (resulting in 'exports' to Switzerland) the idea that ANY party will agree this proposal is sheer fantasy.

how gruesome.

it's interesting that they call for consideration of assisted suicide for only those that have a terminal physical illness. well as someone who suffers with mental health nightmares, i'd ask the question what about us? aren't we often living in terminally ill states of a mental kind? i've made attempts on my life because of the mental anguish i've often found myself in, shouldn't i be allowed to make that decision as well?

it's also interesting that huskaris suggests that he could go to the top of a tall building and throw himself off. i couldn't do that and can't ever imagine having the courage to do so but do believe, i could if offered, take something to drink or maybe an injection, an humane method, without having to resort to splattering myself on the pavement or road.

i often feel i should have the right to die, rather than live with my illness, after all what's the problem, i'd be dead. it's only those left behind who don't want to be left with the anguish, who in my eyes, continue the devastation that someone is left in, if having a terminal illness whether it be physical or mental?

Without in anyway encouraging you or suggesting it is the best or only option you are legally able to take your own life and have been since the suicide law was changed in the 1960s.

I don't know your circumstances so can only hope you find a positive outcome that means you can live on with peace of mind. Good luck

legaladdick

Sillav
I am so sorry to read your post and the background to it. Can I just clarify one thing and that is that it is not necessary for the person who wishes to be assisted to have a terminal illness for the CPS guidelines to apply. Here is a link:
http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/assisted_suicide_policy.html

As point 6 in the introduction makes clear, assisting suicide remains an offence. It is only if the Crown Prosecutor concludes that the public interest against a prosecution outweighs the public interest in favour that the person assisting will not be prosecuted.

sillav nitram

thanks for your wishes henry and your sympathy & interesting link legal.