I wrote to their fanzine (Abbey Rabbit) after that game, asking how they could put up with that week in week out, and they published my letter saying "We thought this was a serious letter 'til we realised it cam from Charlton". Two years later, after their relegation, I wrote again. They didn't publish that one...
I wrote to their fanzine (Abbey Rabbit) after that game, asking how they could put up with that week in week out, and they published my letter saying "We thought this was a serious letter 'til we realised it cam from Charlton". Two years later, after their relegation, I wrote again. They didn't publish that one...
I wrote to their fanzine (Abbey Rabbit) after that game, asking how they could put up with that week in week out, and they published my letter saying "We thought this was a serious letter 'til we realised it cam from Charlton". Two years later, after their relegation, I wrote again. They didn't publish that one...
Yeah, good work, Algarve. A couple of other teams were playing hoofball around that time - Wimbledon and Grotford spring to mind - at the behest of that ridiculous man Charles Hughes, who is mentioned above. Hughes had made a close study of literally thousands of goals scored all over Europe, and come to the conclusion that something like 70 per cent of them occurred within three touches of leaving the goalkeeper's boot. So the great idea was for the midfield and defence to pass back to the keeper at every opportunity, and he would launch it upfield, where.... Oh, hang on; this sounds rather familiar!
So Beck will be teaching future coaches about such technical genius as ensuring there is no hot water in the away dressing room, moving the away dug out to somewhere near the corner flag and alienating the paying public. Seem to recall him screwing Histon too, ticks every box for the FA.
The funny thing is that he had some really good players in that side, Gary Rowett, John Taylor, Dion Dublin, Lee Philpott, Steve Claridge and Alan Kimble to name a few but he went OTT on the long-ball stuff and the silly tricks.
I wrote to their fanzine (Abbey Rabbit) after that game, asking how they could put up with that week in week out, and they published my letter saying "We thought this was a serious letter 'til we realised it cam from Charlton". Two years later, after their relegation, I wrote again. They didn't publish that one...
Yeah, good work, Algarve. A couple of other teams were playing hoofball around that time - Wimbledon and Grotford spring to mind - at the behest of that ridiculous man Charles Hughes, who is mentioned above. Hughes had made a close study of literally thousands of goals scored all over Europe, and come to the conclusion that something like 70 per cent of them occurred within three touches of leaving the goalkeeper's boot. So the great idea was for the midfield and defence to pass back to the keeper at every opportunity, and he would launch it upfield, where.... Oh, hang on; this sounds rather familiar!
I can clearly remember the upton park defeat cambridge came on the pitch about 45 mins before ko and just kicked the ball from one end of the field to the other this went on for about 15mins until they retreated back to the dressing room. If we had any sense we would have left then.As for Charles Hughes he was always talking about the POMO position ( no not a sex act ) it relates to THE POSITION OF MAXIMUM OPOTUNATY ie hoof the ball into the penalty area -our football future is not in safe hands.
I wrote to their fanzine (Abbey Rabbit) after that game, asking how they could put up with that week in week out, and they published my letter saying "We thought this was a serious letter 'til we realised it cam from Charlton". Two years later, after their relegation, I wrote again. They didn't publish that one...
Yeah, good work, Algarve. A couple of other teams were playing hoofball around that time - Wimbledon and Grotford spring to mind - at the behest of that ridiculous man Charles Hughes, who is mentioned above. Hughes had made a close study of literally thousands of goals scored all over Europe, and come to the conclusion that something like 70 per cent of them occurred within three touches of leaving the goalkeeper's boot. So the great idea was for the midfield and defence to pass back to the keeper at every opportunity, and he would launch it upfield, where.... Oh, hang on; this sounds rather familiar!
I can clearly remember the upton park defeat cambridge came on the pitch about 45 mins before ko and just kicked the ball from one end of the field to the other this went on for about 15mins until they retreated back to the dressing room. If we had any sense we would have left then.As for Charles Hughes he was always talking about the POMO position ( no not a sex act ) it relates to THE POSITION OF MAXIMUM OPOTUNATY ie hoof the ball into the penalty area -our football future is not in safe hands.
That's right, they also used to practice their throw ins and set plays too, I remember it we'll because it was so unusual.
If I recall, they would have the full backs practicing their 'channel' balls in the warm up.
He was full of the tricks. Got the groundsman to overwater the ends and grow the grass longer there so that long balls died after a knock down. It does show a certain animal slyness. I've got no idea what his personal philosophy is: he may argue that he made a team that punched well above its weight by playing a type of football that worked in the circumstance. Certainly brought through a lot of decent forwards, Taylor, Claridge and most notably Dublin. He was a passing midfielder himself so you could argue that he thought a lot about the game and did what was needed.
I remember Gritty in front of the away end showing us how flat the balls were they'd given us to warm up with before the match - he came up and threw it straight up in the air and it landed dead on the ground without bounce. Wasn't there salt in the sugar in the changing room so teas were undrinkable? And no hot water? Etc. Thing is we all (well from a club point of view) seemed to take the view of shrugging our shoulders and getting on with it. I guess that's why they carried it on.
Their fans (bollocks) defence of the tactics if I recall correctly was that they were "the most exciting team to watch in the final third of the field". A similar argument that Stoke fans used in recent years.
Funny how when those teams start getting it on the floor they suddenly distance themselves from liking the old style. A bit like a fat bird who says she's happy being fat until she loses weight at which point she's starts shouting about how much she's lost (see Vanessa Feltz, Dawn French etc)
I wrote to their fanzine (Abbey Rabbit) after that game, asking how they could put up with that week in week out, and they published my letter saying "We thought this was a serious letter 'til we realised it cam from Charlton". Two years later, after their relegation, I wrote again. They didn't publish that one...
Yeah, good work, Algarve. A couple of other teams were playing hoofball around that time - Wimbledon and Grotford spring to mind - at the behest of that ridiculous man Charles Hughes, who is mentioned above. Hughes had made a close study of literally thousands of goals scored all over Europe, and come to the conclusion that something like 70 per cent of them occurred within three touches of leaving the goalkeeper's boot. So the great idea was for the midfield and defence to pass back to the keeper at every opportunity, and he would launch it upfield, where.... Oh, hang on; this sounds rather familiar!
I can clearly remember the upton park defeat cambridge came on the pitch about 45 mins before ko and just kicked the ball from one end of the field to the other this went on for about 15mins until they retreated back to the dressing room. If we had any sense we would have left then.As for Charles Hughes he was always talking about the POMO position ( no not a sex act ) it relates to THE POSITION OF MAXIMUM OPOTUNATY ie hoof the ball into the penalty area -our football future is not in safe hands.
I was getting all excited about the POMO position until you told me not to bother, Fossdeneboy! I had forgotten about the Cambridge players listed by Ormiston, above - to which I would add our own Phil Chapple, and George Reilly. I remember watching us at the Shabbey Stadium in the 80s - weren't we 2-0 up and then the rocket launchers hit Reilly, who turned us over, 3-2? Big blond bloke, went on to Grotford and Newcastle. OK, so much for the beautiful game. I think it was Brian Clough who first said: "If God had wanted football to be played in the air, He would have laid turf in the clouds...."
I remember Gritty in front of the away end showing us how flat the balls were they'd given us to warm up with before the match - he came up and threw it straight up in the air and it landed dead on the ground without bounce. Wasn't there salt in the sugar in the changing room so teas were undrinkable? And no hot water? Etc. Thing is we all (well from a club point of view) seemed to take the view of shrugging our shoulders and getting on with it. I guess that's why they carried it on.
Their fans (bollocks) defence of the tactics if I recall correctly was that they were "the most exciting team to watch in the final third of the field". A similar argument that Stoke fans used in recent years.
Funny how when those teams start getting it on the floor they suddenly distance themselves from liking the old style. A bit like a fat bird who says she's happy being fat until she loses weight at which point she's starts shouting about how much she's lost (see Vanessa Feltz, Dawn French etc)
That's absolutely brilliant! I remember going to Cambridge by train in the 80s and being met at the station by a mounted police escort that took us on a circuitous route through the back-streets and across the allotments - and eventually, there it was: The Shabbey Stadium. I'm not exaggerating when I say that that the away end comprised all of five concrete steps, on the top of which you could look back over the wall at Fred Scroggins digging up his potatoes. So much for the groves of academe! I like your connection between Vanessa Feltz and John Beck - perhaps she should interview him on Wazzock FM - a real meeting of minds!
I wrote to their fanzine (Abbey Rabbit) after that game, asking how they could put up with that week in week out, and they published my letter saying "We thought this was a serious letter 'til we realised it cam from Charlton". Two years later, after their relegation, I wrote again. They didn't publish that one...
Yeah, good work, Algarve. A couple of other teams were playing hoofball around that time - Wimbledon and Grotford spring to mind -
Let's not forget Watford under Taylor. Wasn't pretty stuff, yet he went on to manage the national side-WTF!!!!
I wrote to their fanzine (Abbey Rabbit) after that game, asking how they could put up with that week in week out, and they published my letter saying "We thought this was a serious letter 'til we realised it cam from Charlton". Two years later, after their relegation, I wrote again. They didn't publish that one...
Yeah, good work, Algarve. A couple of other teams were playing hoofball around that time - Wimbledon and Grotford spring to mind -
Let's not forget Watford under Taylor. Wasn't pretty stuff, yet he went on to manage the national side-WTF!!!!
Also Lincoln - Taylor's ton up boys 75/6!
Sincil bank is clearly the training ground for future international coaches.
I wrote to their fanzine (Abbey Rabbit) after that game, asking how they could put up with that week in week out, and they published my letter saying "We thought this was a serious letter 'til we realised it cam from Charlton". Two years later, after their relegation, I wrote again. They didn't publish that one...
Yeah, good work, Algarve. A couple of other teams were playing hoofball around that time - Wimbledon and Grotford spring to mind -
Let's not forget Watford under Taylor. Wasn't pretty stuff, yet he went on to manage the national side-WTF!!!!
As the man himself exclaimed when England went 2-0 down in a World Cup qualifier: "Do I not like that!".
Charles Hughes studied football but his plan had a major flaw - It was crap!- but seriously, in terms of a system for limited players it had some merit. Hughes looked at how many passes it took to score a goal which suggested a long ball game was more productive. The flaw was that actually, if the players can pass - passing is more productive, but the stats were obtained from the data of the less skillful English players.
It wasn't just Beck who was influenced by Hughes - look at Graham Taylor's Watford side and Howard Wilkinson (who both went on to manage England). But in a league of little talent and much endeavor it can work. The problem is that the best teams are mainly made up of foreign players who when they are kids learn to control a football and look up and read a game, where our kids dribble past teams on their own, use height and weight advantage, play on pitches that are too big for them, tackle like their lifes depended on it and try to win cups when they are 8!
Beck's Cambridge was an aboration -taking Hughes'ideas a step further- with limited players who just got the ball forwards as quickly as possible with no planning. They nearly got promoted to the top division with this style - probably not the best word - but they got sussed out the next season and got relegated! Which was great for football!
As a believer in the beautiful game, it pains me to say it, but some of Hughes' ideas would work for us. Gower is a passer but in our team - where when we make more than 3 passes we are likely to make a poor one- we are probably better off not making too many. A mixture of styles can work at our level (because the league has a lot of British players and the standard is lower) but hasn't got a hope in the Premiership! To illustrate my point - just check how many poor passes we make when under little or no pressure!
The game has changed since Charlie's days. The higher the level of football the more timeyou have to play out from the back and in the middle third. It 's the defensive third where it's tight and there is little time to play.
The game has changed since Charlie's days. The higher the level of football the more timeyou have to play out from the back and in the middle third. It 's the defensive third where it's tight and there is little time to play.
Indeed, and Charles Hughes' theories applied when keepers were allowed to pick up passes back from their defenders before launching the howitzers. Paul Williams was a prime exploiter of defensive passes, lurking and anticipating, like lightning over ten yards to intercept and score.
Unfortunately, the English game/style will not chnage for many, many years, no matter what new strategies are put in place. I have said it before, but the culture in Britain doesn't allow for the free flowing 'Latin' style of play. Britain still has a beer and pie culture........the vino and pasta is many, many years away. To a degree the only way to accelerate the process is by not qualifying for major tournaments. While we do qualify with our current style we believe there is still hope.........our nation has never apprecaited the Hoddle, Le Tessier, Rooney, Scholes yype of player........in fact, we tend to vilify them and look at things outside of their huge talents to knock them and bring them down. When we see a Joe Cole type of player we tell him to stop being so creative and fancy.......instead just pass the ball and wok harder when not in posession......the 'Latins' do almost the opposite!
So true - It is amazing these players get through our system with the talents they possess. You do have to change the culture for sure - I think there is a way but it is expensive, bringing lots of foreign coaches in at grass roots level to influence! Even with that - you are talking about 10 years to see an effect.
Unfortunately, the English game/style will not chnage for many, many years, no matter what new strategies are put in place. I have said it before, but the culture in Britain doesn't allow for the free flowing 'Latin' style of play. Britain still has a beer and pie culture........the vino and pasta is many, many years away. To a degree the only way to accelerate the process is by not qualifying for major tournaments. While we do qualify with our current style we believe there is still hope.........our nation has never apprecaited the Hoddle, Le Tessier, Rooney, Scholes yype of player........in fact, we tend to vilify them and look at things outside of their huge talents to knock them and bring them down. When we see a Joe Cole type of player we tell him to stop being so creative and fancy.......instead just pass the ball and wok harder when not in posession......the 'Latins' do almost the opposite!
I agree - very well put. I usually hope England fail to qualify for major tournaments, so that the shock of failure will precipitate major changes.
Paul Williams was a prime exploiter of defensive passes, lurking and anticipating, like lightning over ten yards to intercept and score.
Really? Did he?
I used to love Willo, but according to Wiki he scored 23 goals for us and I can't remember too many of those where he intercepted a back pass.
Sounds like you're suffering a bit from "Matt Tees Syndrome". My mates dad still firmly believes that Matt Tees used to finish every game absolutely covered in his own blood where he had been battling so hard. In truth he probably did it once.
Me, I can only remember Phil Chapple playing with a bandaged head. But deep down I know it wasn't a permanent fixture.
Unfortunately, the English game/style will not chnage for many, many years, no matter what new strategies are put in place. I have said it before, but the culture in Britain doesn't allow for the free flowing 'Latin' style of play. Britain still has a beer and pie culture........the vino and pasta is many, many years away. To a degree the only way to accelerate the process is by not qualifying for major tournaments. While we do qualify with our current style we believe there is still hope.........our nation has never apprecaited the Hoddle, Le Tessier, Rooney, Scholes yype of player........in fact, we tend to vilify them and look at things outside of their huge talents to knock them and bring them down. When we see a Joe Cole type of player we tell him to stop being so creative and fancy.......instead just pass the ball and wok harder when not in posession......the 'Latins' do almost the opposite!
I agree - very well put. I usually hope England fail to qualify for major tournaments, so that the shock of failure will precipitate major changes.
I would never hope England fail to qualify, and I would like to point out previous failures have changed nothing. I disagree that it will take many many years to change, and that "our nation" has never appreciated the type of player you mention - the media and the establishment may have not, they are not representative of the people, as we well know.
England have just had a good result and played pretty well ( for a change ). Can't we just enjoy the moment?
Paul Williams was a prime exploiter of defensive passes, lurking and anticipating, like lightning over ten yards to intercept and score.
Really? Did he?
I used to love Willo, but according to Wiki he scored 23 goals for us and I can't remember too many of those where he intercepted a back pass.
Sounds like you're suffering a bit from "Matt Tees Syndrome". My mates dad still firmly believes that Matt Tees used to finish every game absolutely covered in his own blood where he had been battling so hard. In truth he probably did it once.
Me, I can only remember Phil Chapple playing with a bandaged head. But deep down I know it wasn't a permanent fixture.
QPR away in the League Cup....round the keeper and in from a tight angle.
England is still a competitive footballing nation but the fact is they are, and are likely to remain, a little below the top nations. If I was Greg Dyke, I would be listening carefully to the people who are telling us the system is wrong and listening to what they would do to put it right.
I'm not a fan of committees in this situation - you have to listen and put your stake on who is hopefully the right man and give him money, power and freedom to make the changes he deems fit.My personal view is that person is Hoddle.
Unfortunately, the English game/style will not chnage for many, many years, no matter what new strategies are put in place. I have said it before, but the culture in Britain doesn't allow for the free flowing 'Latin' style of play. Britain still has a beer and pie culture........the vino and pasta is many, many years away. To a degree the only way to accelerate the process is by not qualifying for major tournaments. While we do qualify with our current style we believe there is still hope.........our nation has never apprecaited the Hoddle, Le Tessier, Rooney, Scholes yype of player........in fact, we tend to vilify them and look at things outside of their huge talents to knock them and bring them down. When we see a Joe Cole type of player we tell him to stop being so creative and fancy.......instead just pass the ball and wok harder when not in posession......the 'Latins' do almost the opposite!
I agree - very well put. I usually hope England fail to qualify for major tournaments, so that the shock of failure will precipitate major changes.
I would never hope England fail to qualify, and I would like to point out previous failures have changed nothing. I disagree that it will take many many years to change, and that "our nation" has never appreciated the type of player you mention - the media and the establishment may have not, they are not representative of the people, as we well know.
England have just had a good result and played pretty well ( for a change ). Can't we just enjoy the moment?
You honestly thought that was a good perforamce against the mighty Montenegro? You should be wirking for the F.A. It was dire compared to the heights we think we can achieve by 2022. Nothing will change. Infidentally, the people follow what the media tells us.......
Unfortunately, the English game/style will not chnage for many, many years, no matter what new strategies are put in place. I have said it before, but the culture in Britain doesn't allow for the free flowing 'Latin' style of play. Britain still has a beer and pie culture........the vino and pasta is many, many years away. To a degree the only way to accelerate the process is by not qualifying for major tournaments. While we do qualify with our current style we believe there is still hope.........our nation has never apprecaited the Hoddle, Le Tessier, Rooney, Scholes yype of player........in fact, we tend to vilify them and look at things outside of their huge talents to knock them and bring them down. When we see a Joe Cole type of player we tell him to stop being so creative and fancy.......instead just pass the ball and wok harder when not in posession......the 'Latins' do almost the opposite!
I agree - very well put. I usually hope England fail to qualify for major tournaments, so that the shock of failure will precipitate major changes.
I would never hope England fail to qualify, and I would like to point out previous failures have changed nothing. I disagree that it will take many many years to change, and that "our nation" has never appreciated the type of player you mention - the media and the establishment may have not, they are not representative of the people, as we well know.
England have just had a good result and played pretty well ( for a change ). Can't we just enjoy the moment?
You honestly thought that was a good perforamce against the mighty Montenegro? You should be wirking for the F.A. It was dire compared to the heights we think we can achieve by 2022. Nothing will change. Infidentally, the people follow what the media tells us.......
No I don't think it was a good performance, I know it was by the evidence of my own eyes. A team ranked in the top thirty in the world was dispatched easily, the England team were finding each other with their passes and had 27 shots of which 12 were on target. They had 60% of the possession and did not concede a corner in the whole game.
Often recently England have been very poor and disappointing, this was clearly not one of those occasions, it is just a pity that your preconceived ideas stopped you from enjoying it.
Let me throw your original question back at you, you honestly think a comfortable 4-1 victory is a bad performance?
Comments
Top work, Algarve !
If I recall, they would have the full backs practicing their 'channel' balls in the warm up.
Their fans (bollocks) defence of the tactics if I recall correctly was that they were "the most exciting team to watch in the final third of the field". A similar argument that Stoke fans used in recent years.
Funny how when those teams start getting it on the floor they suddenly distance themselves from liking the old style. A bit like a fat bird who says she's happy being fat until she loses weight at which point she's starts shouting about how much she's lost (see Vanessa Feltz, Dawn French etc)
Sincil bank is clearly the training ground for future international coaches.
It wasn't just Beck who was influenced by Hughes - look at Graham Taylor's Watford side and Howard Wilkinson (who both went on to manage England). But in a league of little talent and much endeavor it can work. The problem is that the best teams are mainly made up of foreign players who when they are kids learn to control a football and look up and read a game, where our kids dribble past teams on their own, use height and weight advantage, play on pitches that are too big for them, tackle like their lifes depended on it and try to win cups when they are 8!
Beck's Cambridge was an aboration -taking Hughes'ideas a step further- with limited players who just got the ball forwards as quickly as possible with no planning. They nearly got promoted to the top division with this style - probably not the best word - but they got sussed out the next season and got relegated! Which was great for football!
As a believer in the beautiful game, it pains me to say it, but some of Hughes' ideas would work for us. Gower is a passer but in our team - where when we make more than 3 passes we are likely to make a poor one- we are probably better off not making too many. A mixture of styles can work at our level (because the league has a lot of British players and the standard is lower) but hasn't got a hope in the Premiership! To illustrate my point - just check how many poor passes we make when under little or no pressure!
I used to love Willo, but according to Wiki he scored 23 goals for us and I can't remember too many of those where he intercepted a back pass.
Sounds like you're suffering a bit from "Matt Tees Syndrome". My mates dad still firmly believes that Matt Tees used to finish every game absolutely covered in his own blood where he had been battling so hard. In truth he probably did it once.
Me, I can only remember Phil Chapple playing with a bandaged head. But deep down I know it wasn't a permanent fixture.
England have just had a good result and played pretty well ( for a change ). Can't we just enjoy the moment?
I'm not a fan of committees in this situation - you have to listen and put your stake on who is hopefully the right man and give him money, power and freedom to make the changes he deems fit.My personal view is that person is Hoddle.
Often recently England have been very poor and disappointing, this was clearly not one of those occasions, it is just a pity that your preconceived ideas stopped you from enjoying it.
Let me throw your original question back at you, you honestly think a comfortable 4-1 victory is a bad performance?