He came over quite well in that program. He made some good points that progressive non extremist Muslims agreed with. It is valid to link the sex gangs to the Koran as it can be interpreted by fundamentalists that what they are doing is ok. A lot of politicians fear the backlash and being accuse dof being racist. The Labour MP who called it how it was and was willing to argue alongside Tommy Robinson impressed me. It needs the elders and clerics to clarify it is wrong and they seem reluctant to do so. It is needed for Muslims to make a stand against the fundamentalism that is so prevalent in their religion. They need to explain to fellow Muslims that the Koran is from a different time and some of the texts are not appropriate for this time!
He also made an excellent point when told Mosques were trying to combat fundamentalism, when he asked how many fundamentalists had been turned in by mosques. The answer is zero. He was clearly converted to the views of Quilliam as they were closer to where he was coming from. I'm sure he started out a racist thug but he seems to have the ability to review, question and think about his beliefs. Something most of the knuckle draggers he used to lead don't!
Also liked the head of Quilliam -who used to be a fundamentalist- talking to the Muslim chap about cutting robbers hands off and stonings. It was interesting as he was trying to be reasonable but he just couldn't condemn these barbaric elements of Islam. He tried to, you could see him conflicted, but he couldn't. Being reasonable is about what you say, not the tone in which you say it! He illustrated a major reason why that religion is so dangerous and how it needs to be sorted. That is from within, by groups like Quilliam winning the argument with fellow Muslims.
Great TV should have been main stream. Robinson and the Labour Cllr agreeing re the shocking PC crap that meant peodos where free for decades to do what they did. The Quillian guy verbally pulling the Iman apart.
He came over quite well in that program. He made some good points that progressive non extremist Muslims agreed with. It is valid to link the sex gangs to the Koran as it can be interpreted by fundamentalists that what they are doing is ok. A lot of politicians fear the backlash and being accuse dof being racist. The Labour MP who called it how it was and was willing to argue alongside Tommy Robinson impressed me. It needs the elders and clerics to clarify it is wrong and they seem reluctant to do so. It is needed for Muslims to make a stand against the fundamentalism that is so prevalent in their religion. They need to explain to fellow Muslims that the Koran is from a different time and some of the texts are not appropriate for this time!
He also made an excellent point when told Mosques were trying to combat fundamentalism, when he asked how many fundamentalists had been turned in by mosques. The answer is zero. He was clearly converted to the views of Quilliam as they were closer to where he was coming from. I'm sure he started out a racist thug but he seems to have the ability to review, question and think about his beliefs. Something most of the knuckle draggers he used to lead don't!
Also liked the head of Quilliam -who used to be a fundamentalist- talking to the Muslim chap about cutting robbers hands off and stonings. It was interesting as he was trying to be reasonable but he just couldn't condemn these barbaric elements of Islam. He tried to, you could see him conflicted, but he couldn't. Being reasonable is about what you say, not the tone in which you say it! He illustrated a major reason why that religion is so dangerous and how it needs to be sorted. That is from within, by groups like Quilliam winning the argument with fellow Muslims.
Very good program.
Brilliant post Muttley, summed up my thoughts exactly
I don't think Robinsons withdrawal from the EDL is a cynical ploy or tactic but a genuine effort to seek a better way of addressing what he still considers to be a threat to British culture. Quilliam are also very brave to embrace and work with the views of a man that many Muslims will continue to view as a racist thug. I will watch this with genuine interest and hope this unlikely union can bring both sides of the argument together.
Fascinating programme. There are passages in the Bible, re-printed every time, about for example not being able to go to heaven if you wear glasses, or at least if your eyesight is playing you up. This can be taken literally, or allegorically. Christianity as ( older than Islam ) religion has evolved and reviewed passages from the Bible. Maybe Islam is further back in it's evolution as a religion, and finds it much harder that Christianity to look again at a sacred text. Certainly Mo, and the young Muslim woman in the 'posh' meeting did not seem to want to accept that the holy text could be changed, or re-interpreted. This is interesting to me. Does Islam think the Qur'an is set in stone and that's it, and see Christians re-visiting of the Bible as some kind of unacceptable weakness of faith? I don't know, and I don't know enough about Islam to know if their interpretations of the Qur'an have shifted over the centuries. However those who seem to interpret things in a fundamentalist way seem to be very dangerous. Seeing a girl shot for wanting an education is a shocking manifestation of fundamentalist Islam in my eyes. A lot of time was spent on the 'grooming' issue. But for me I wanted to see some stuff about the concept of Jihad, and how that idea is seen, and how it plays out, and I don't think that was touched on at all. Mind you, Christians had the Crusades in the past, and felt that their behaviour was justified in the eyes of God. Possibly Jihads are the Crusades in another form. Fascinating and thought provoking. On a personal level the Muslims I have known in my life have been great people.
You get Christian fundamentalists as well though. Not so many in the UK but in the States and parts of Africa certainly (if anyone saw that recent Stephen Fry documentary), and they are pretty keen to have people put to death for being gay for example.
You get Christian fundamentalists as well though. Not so many in the UK but in the States and parts of Africa certainly (if anyone saw that recent Stephen Fry documentary), and they are pretty keen to have people put to death for being gay for example.
Yes I agree. Those fundamentalist are also dangerous and scary too.
One of those show that could've gone for another hour without being boring, fantastic television. Shame so few people are willing to engage with people who have opposing views and it also demonstrates what can be achieved if you listen to others before making opinion.
I don't think Robinsons withdrawal from the EDL is a cynical ploy or tactic but a genuine effort to seek a better way of addressing what he still considers to be a threat to British culture. Quilliam are also very brave to embrace and work with the views of a man that many Muslims will continue to view as a racist thug. I will watch this with genuine interest and hope this unlikely union can bring both sides of the argument together.
You could argue the same point about the founder (his name escapes me) of Quilliam, his views were once abhorent to Tommy Robinson and many others. Fantastic programme, you could see the light bulb being dimly lit above his head. The other Muslim guy who started the whole process with Tommy seemed to be be paying lip service a lot of the time, the Quilliam guy put him right on the back foot.
An absorbing programme. I so much want to believe the messages from both sides, but that little swingometer in my brain just stays stuck at 'Proceed With Caution'.
what astounds me is that the following morning after the airing I could not find it being discussed on any news medium, I listen to radio London whilst the kids are watching cartoons before going to school, so I chucked it on in the morning and it was as if I had imagined the whole programme,
very sad that a decent information article is being neglected because it does not fit the mainstream view on Islam and Tommy Robinson
it painted all parties involved in a good light and also highlighted their bigotry as ignorant very sad that the national news outlets failed to pick this up, hopefully goggle box did
very sad that a decent information article is being neglected because it does not fit the mainstream view on Islam and Tommy Robinson
What came out in the programme that was new information?
I have not seen the programme so will take on board the comments of those who have. Based on what people have said on this thread, nothing new on Islam / Muslims appears to have been mentioned in the programme. Some new information appears to have been mentioned in relation to Mr Robinson as an individual, but frankly who cares, he is only of interest in as much as he represents a section of society and nothing new appears to have been mentioned in this regard.
If the only new information relates to Mr Robinson as an individual, then why is it newsworthy?
Well I had never seen two muslims disagree on the things in the religous book in the manor they did
Nor had I ever seen or heard of the hatred aimed at quillem or the poor guy from the muslim council of gb from british muslims
And for the first time I can recall things were discussed openly and honestly with both sides at time coming across as stupid on certain actions
Watch it and form your own opinion
Muslims can disagree, the evidence of this is often in the news from around the world.
It's true that the only way I can fully form an opinion on this show is too watch it. However I suspect some people when deciding what to put in the news (clearly it is impossible to watch everything) may have based their decision on a thought process similar to that in my previous post. Of course, some people who make the decision, may have watched the programme and decided it was not newsworthy.
very sad that a decent information article is being neglected because it does not fit the mainstream view on Islam and Tommy Robinson
If the only new information relates to Mr Robinson as an individual, then why is it newsworthy?
He is (was) the leader of a large far right street protest group, newsworthy in my book.
Mr Robinson was a nobody before the EDL. With the EDL he represented a section of society, and whether you agreed with his views or not, those views represented that section of society and were worth considering. Now without the EDL and not clearly representing a significant section of society, his views now are not much more newsworthy than Joe Bloggs'. This may change again in the future.
His name isn't Tommy Robinson, It's Stephen Yaxley-Lennon. Not sure why he needed to change his name other than to look hard (he chose the name of a famous Luton football hooligan)
Glad he's seen the error of his ways with the EDL thugs and is trying to engage in debate but he did create the EDL and now seems to have thrown it away now it no longer suits him.
The problem has never been foreigners or people with different coloured skins or just different religions but fundamentalist religions be that Muslims or Christians or whatever.
His name isn't Tommy Robinson, It's Stephen Yaxley-Lennon. Not sure why he needed to change his name other than to look hard (he chose the name of a famous Luton football hooligan)
Glad he's seen the error of his ways with the EDL thugs and is trying to engage in debate but he did create the EDL and now seems to have thrown it away now it no longer suits him.
The problem has never been foreigners or people with different coloured skins or just different religions but fundamentalist religions be that Muslims or Christians or whatever.
Comments
Tommy Robinson learns about British Islam & the full story of why he left The EDL.
He also made an excellent point when told Mosques were trying to combat fundamentalism, when he asked how many fundamentalists had been turned in by mosques. The answer is zero. He was clearly converted to the views of Quilliam as they were closer to where he was coming from. I'm sure he started out a racist thug but he seems to have the ability to review, question and think about his beliefs. Something most of the knuckle draggers he used to lead don't!
Also liked the head of Quilliam -who used to be a fundamentalist- talking to the Muslim chap about cutting robbers hands off and stonings. It was interesting as he was trying to be reasonable but he just couldn't condemn these barbaric elements of Islam. He tried to, you could see him conflicted, but he couldn't. Being reasonable is about what you say, not the tone in which you say it! He illustrated a major reason why that religion is so dangerous and how it needs to be sorted. That is from within, by groups like Quilliam winning the argument with fellow Muslims.
Very good program.
I was watching in bed and nodded off two thirds of the way through, started snoring and took a dig in the back from the Mrs!
Robinson and the Labour Cllr agreeing re the shocking PC crap that meant peodos where free for decades to do what they did.
The Quillian guy verbally pulling the Iman apart.
TV like this STOPS violence.
There are passages in the Bible, re-printed every time, about for example not being able to go to heaven if you wear glasses, or at least if your eyesight is playing you up. This can be taken literally, or allegorically. Christianity as ( older than Islam ) religion has evolved and reviewed passages from the Bible. Maybe Islam is further back in it's evolution as a religion, and finds it much harder that Christianity to look again at a sacred text.
Certainly Mo, and the young Muslim woman in the 'posh' meeting did not seem to want to accept that the holy text could be changed, or re-interpreted. This is interesting to me.
Does Islam think the Qur'an is set in stone and that's it, and see Christians re-visiting of the Bible as some kind of unacceptable weakness of faith? I don't know, and I don't know enough about Islam to know if their interpretations of the Qur'an have shifted over the centuries.
However those who seem to interpret things in a fundamentalist way seem to be very dangerous. Seeing a girl shot for wanting an education is a shocking manifestation of fundamentalist Islam in my eyes.
A lot of time was spent on the 'grooming' issue. But for me I wanted to see some stuff about the concept of Jihad, and how that idea is seen, and how it plays out, and I don't think that was touched on at all.
Mind you, Christians had the Crusades in the past, and felt that their behaviour was justified in the eyes of God. Possibly Jihads are the Crusades in another form.
Fascinating and thought provoking. On a personal level the Muslims I have known in my life have been great people.
Fantastic programme, you could see the light bulb being dimly lit above his head.
The other Muslim guy who started the whole process with Tommy seemed to be be paying lip service a lot of the time, the Quilliam guy put him right on the back foot.
very sad that a decent information article is being neglected because it does not fit the mainstream view on Islam and Tommy Robinson
it painted all parties involved in a good light and also highlighted their bigotry as ignorant very sad that the national news outlets failed to pick this up, hopefully goggle box did
I have not seen the programme so will take on board the comments of those who have. Based on what people have said on this thread, nothing new on Islam / Muslims appears to have been mentioned in the programme. Some new information appears to have been mentioned in relation to Mr Robinson as an individual, but frankly who cares, he is only of interest in as much as he represents a section of society and nothing new appears to have been mentioned in this regard.
If the only new information relates to Mr Robinson as an individual, then why is it newsworthy?
Nor had I ever seen or heard of the hatred aimed at quillem or the poor guy from the muslim council of gb from british muslims
And for the first time I can recall things were discussed openly and honestly with both sides at time coming across as stupid on certain actions
Watch it and form your own opinion
It's true that the only way I can fully form an opinion on this show is too watch it. However I suspect some people when deciding what to put in the news (clearly it is impossible to watch everything) may have based their decision on a thought process similar to that in my previous post. Of course, some people who make the decision, may have watched the programme and decided it was not newsworthy. Mr Robinson was a nobody before the EDL. With the EDL he represented a section of society, and whether you agreed with his views or not, those views represented that section of society and were worth considering. Now without the EDL and not clearly representing a significant section of society, his views now are not much more newsworthy than Joe Bloggs'. This may change again in the future.
Glad he's seen the error of his ways with the EDL thugs and is trying to engage in debate but he did create the EDL and now seems to have thrown it away now it no longer suits him.
The problem has never been foreigners or people with different coloured skins or just different religions but fundamentalist religions be that Muslims or Christians or whatever.