I'm pretty ambivalent about standing, but I know there are quite a few who would like to see its return, so I thought I would post this Grauniad article.
It's a really interesting debate and I'm in favour in principle however I'm not sure how it would stack up financially for us.
The most logical stand to convert, I guess, would be the North Lower, which would cost £200k to convert. We would then probably have to reduce ticket prices in that area (which I believe are currently the most expensive in the ground) further impacting the clubs finances.
Ultimately I think it's a good idea but probably only works if you sell out as it is and if you're as far from selling out as we are then it's hard to justify economically.
Lower north aren't the most expensive. I'm in favour in terms of atmosphere and I think it might attract people back, though I agree the economic case is not compelling. However, people seem happy to pay to stand in front of a seat, so they'd probably be willing to pay the same to stand properly.
Can Charlton afford not to have a standing section?
It now appears that momentum is with those that favour allowing standing in football grounds. There is growing support in parliament. Further, EPL clubs seem to want to maintain or improve atmosphere inside their grounds as this helps sell their product to both domestic and international markets. The correlation between standing and improved atmosphere appears to be accepted, and accordingly several EPL are likely to install safe standing were this a viable option.
Nobody is advocating a return the terracing of old, but instead a change to modern safe rail based standing. It seems likely that standing will return to top flight football in Scotland first rather than England due to the vagaries of Scots and English law. Given that modern standing is a success in Germany, it can be assumed that it will be a success north of the border. This should tip the balance in favour of those that wish to see a return to standing at the top levels of English football.
Several London clubs currently offer a higher level of football to us. The top flight club nearest to us may soon offer cheaper tickets. If that club can also offer a better match day experience, both in terms of standing for those that want it & general atmosphere for all, then there is the potential for this to impact on the level of our support. Quantifying the impact will be tricky, but needs to be considered. To put it simply there will be a cost to Charlton of implementing safe standing and there will be a cost of doing nothing.
Make the North Lower standing, but only open to season ticket holders (therefore limiting capacity). Those that want to stand, can buy a ST for there, and those that want a seat can sit elswhere. Simples...
Make the North Lower standing, but only open to season ticket holders (therefore limiting capacity). Those that want to stand, can buy a ST for there, and those that want a seat can sit elswhere. Simples...
Don't need to limit it to only ST holders to control capacity, just sell a fixed number of tickets.
One of the advantages of standing is that if you want bring a friend they can stand with you where as with seating it's not always possible to get the seat next to you.
Make the North Lower standing, but only open to season ticket holders (therefore limiting capacity). Those that want to stand, can buy a ST for there, and those that want a seat can sit elswhere. Simples...
Don't need to limit it to only ST holders to control capacity, just sell a fixed number of tickets.
One of the advantages of standing is that if you want bring a friend they can stand with you where as with seating it's not always possible to get the seat next to you.
Wouldnt it be a good idea to restrict to ST Holders though so that if there is any trouble the ST Holder will have his ticket taken away and he'll lose up to £200 and so will be more willing to behave.
Where as anyone could be a red card member and get a matchday ticket and to them its just £20-£30, they might not care as much if they get chucked out
Make the North Lower standing, but only open to season ticket holders (therefore limiting capacity). Those that want to stand, can buy a ST for there, and those that want a seat can sit elswhere. Simples...
Don't need to limit it to only ST holders to control capacity, just sell a fixed number of tickets.
One of the advantages of standing is that if you want bring a friend they can stand with you where as with seating it's not always possible to get the seat next to you.
Wouldnt it be a good idea to restrict to ST Holders though so that if there is any trouble the ST Holder will have his ticket taken away and he'll lose up to £200 and so will be more willing to behave.
Where as anyone could be a red card member and get a matchday ticket and to them its just £20-£30, they might not care as much if they get chucked out
Wouldn't that apply to any area of the ground though?
And if we sell, say 2000 ST for the area we then have 1000 tickets we can't sell even if there is demand.
Still unsure of the standing/terrace ruling that is here now. Peterborough & Yeovil both have standing areas and both have played in the Championship in recent times.
You have three years to convert to all seater stadiums when promoted to the championship. Peterbpough would have to be all seater if they had not got relegated last year after three years in the Championship.
Like the idea in principle but the maths still doesn't seem to work out unless your a) selling out, or, b) have super rich owners he don't care about taking a hit
I don't have an issue one way or the other. I shall continue to sit because of my limited mobility and just hope that those seated do not stand up, thus blocking my view!
Went to Werder Bremen v Hamburg at the weekend with a few lads and we gave the safe standing area a go. It's ok although if you get there a bit late it can be hard to find a space (the places weren't reserved). The system would work fine in the UK and people would get used to it pretty quickly.
Convert the Jimmy Seed to safe standing - might encourage the blanket & cocoa brigade every other team sends to us as their away support to maybe sing a song for a change.
Safe standing: Lib Dems make 2015 General Election pledge
By Richard Conway BBC Radio 5 live sports news correspondent The Liberal Democrats want to change the law and allow Premier League and Championship clubs to introduce safe standing at stadiums. The party has confirmed to BBC Sport it plans to make the pledge as part of its 2015 General Election manifesto. Currently, the Football Spectators Act 1989 requires safety authorities to ensure fans attending games in England's top two divisions are seated. However, the party is not advocating a return to open terracing.
Comments
The most logical stand to convert, I guess, would be the North Lower, which would cost £200k to convert. We would then probably have to reduce ticket prices in that area (which I believe are currently the most expensive in the ground) further impacting the clubs finances.
Ultimately I think it's a good idea but probably only works if you sell out as it is and if you're as far from selling out as we are then it's hard to justify economically.
I'm in favour in terms of atmosphere and I think it might attract people back, though I agree the economic case is not compelling. However, people seem happy to pay to stand in front of a seat, so they'd probably be willing to pay the same to stand properly.
Think it has to be down to economic concerns these days rather than H&S.
Can Charlton afford not to have a standing section?
It now appears that momentum is with those that favour allowing standing in football grounds. There is growing support in parliament. Further, EPL clubs seem to want to maintain or improve atmosphere inside their grounds as this helps sell their product to both domestic and international markets. The correlation between standing and improved atmosphere appears to be accepted, and accordingly several EPL are likely to install safe standing were this a viable option.
Nobody is advocating a return the terracing of old, but instead a change to modern safe rail based standing. It seems likely that standing will return to top flight football in Scotland first rather than England due to the vagaries of Scots and English law. Given that modern standing is a success in Germany, it can be assumed that it will be a success north of the border. This should tip the balance in favour of those that wish to see a return to standing at the top levels of English football.
Several London clubs currently offer a higher level of football to us. The top flight club nearest to us may soon offer cheaper tickets. If that club can also offer a better match day experience, both in terms of standing for those that want it & general atmosphere for all, then there is the potential for this to impact on the level of our support. Quantifying the impact will be tricky, but needs to be considered. To put it simply there will be a cost to Charlton of implementing safe standing and there will be a cost of doing nothing.
One of the advantages of standing is that if you want bring a friend they can stand with you where as with seating it's not always possible to get the seat next to you.
Where as anyone could be a red card member and get a matchday ticket and to them its just £20-£30, they might not care as much if they get chucked out
And if we sell, say 2000 ST for the area we then have 1000 tickets we can't sell even if there is demand.
Peterborough & Yeovil both have standing areas and both have played in the Championship in recent times.
Yeovil away terrace tickets available at £20 or seats at £20 Wonder how many will take up the seated option.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25526329
around me it is anyway
How many Brighton/Leeds/Man u/Palace/fans stayed seated in the Jimmy seed stand?
People standing at the back of the Upper North.
Give safe standing a trial period.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26141427
By Richard Conway
BBC Radio 5 live sports news correspondent
The Liberal Democrats want to change the law and allow Premier League and Championship clubs to introduce safe standing at stadiums.
The party has confirmed to BBC Sport it plans to make the pledge as part of its 2015 General Election manifesto.
Currently, the Football Spectators Act 1989 requires safety authorities to ensure fans attending games in England's top two divisions are seated.
However, the party is not advocating a return to open terracing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28886330