Richard Cawley @RichCawleySLP #cafc know they are not blameless in Valley pitch problems but Barnsley spinning tales that are not true.
Richard Cawley @RichCawleySLP Claims that pitch was uncovered on Friday night is not true. #cafc
Richard Cawley @RichCawleySLP #cafc tweeted that pitch inspection as soon as they were made aware of it. Pitch in better condition than it was for Brighton or Sheff W.
Richard Cawley @RichCawleySLP Issue is largely down to drainage system collapsing. That can't be addressed until the end of the season. #cafc
I just saw that on Twitter, he is much maligned but Cawley is ok.
But god forbid the club may be telling the truth and that things have been over played by fans and media
Richard Cawley @RichCawleySLP #cafc know they are not blameless in Valley pitch problems but Barnsley spinning tales that are not true.
Richard Cawley @RichCawleySLP Claims that pitch was uncovered on Friday night is not true. #cafc
Richard Cawley @RichCawleySLP #cafc tweeted that pitch inspection as soon as they were made aware of it. Pitch in better condition than it was for Brighton or Sheff W.
Richard Cawley @RichCawleySLP Issue is largely down to drainage system collapsing. That can't be addressed until the end of the season. #cafc
I just saw that on Twitter, he is much maligned but Cawley is ok.
But god forbid the club may be telling the truth and that things have been over played by fans and media
But the game was still postponed. Even if the ref could have played it - it was within the zone that he could have called it off- which he did!
Richard Cawley @RichCawleySLP #cafc know they are not blameless in Valley pitch problems but Barnsley spinning tales that are not true.
Richard Cawley @RichCawleySLP Claims that pitch was uncovered on Friday night is not true. #cafc
Richard Cawley @RichCawleySLP #cafc tweeted that pitch inspection as soon as they were made aware of it. Pitch in better condition than it was for Brighton or Sheff W.
Richard Cawley @RichCawleySLP Issue is largely down to drainage system collapsing. That can't be addressed until the end of the season. #cafc
I just saw that on Twitter, he is much maligned but Cawley is ok.
But god forbid the club may be telling the truth and that things have been over played by fans and media
still doesn't explain why they didn't have a Friday inspection, seems only prudent to me considering recent problems. After all they are having one today when the pitch is better than it was Saturday and better than Sheff Weds and Brighton. If they claim it was playable Saturday then why are they bothering now? Possibly because they got it wrong?
What I cannot understand is that there must have been someone at the club last Friday with a pair of football boots and ball who could have wandered out, spotted the problem then informed the powers that be "upstairs" that they need to get a referee in, and quick!
Richard Cawley @RichCawleySLP #cafc know they are not blameless in Valley pitch problems but Barnsley spinning tales that are not true.
Richard Cawley @RichCawleySLP Claims that pitch was uncovered on Friday night is not true. #cafc
Richard Cawley @RichCawleySLP #cafc tweeted that pitch inspection as soon as they were made aware of it. Pitch in better condition than it was for Brighton or Sheff W.
Richard Cawley @RichCawleySLP Issue is largely down to drainage system collapsing. That can't be addressed until the end of the season. #cafc
I just saw that on Twitter, he is much maligned but Cawley is ok.
But god forbid the club may be telling the truth and that things have been over played by fans and media
still doesn't explain why they didn't have a Friday inspection, seems only prudent to me considering recent problems. After all they are having one today when the pitch is better than it was Saturday and better than Sheff Weds and Brighton. If they claim it was playable Saturday then why are they bothering now? Possibly because they got it wrong?
You've hit the nail on the head. The Barnsley supporters' trust is encouraging disappointed fans to write to Steve Bradshaw with complaints and claims for compensation.
Richard Cawley @RichCawleySLP #cafc know they are not blameless in Valley pitch problems but Barnsley spinning tales that are not true.
Richard Cawley @RichCawleySLP Claims that pitch was uncovered on Friday night is not true. #cafc
Richard Cawley @RichCawleySLP #cafc tweeted that pitch inspection as soon as they were made aware of it. Pitch in better condition than it was for Brighton or Sheff W.
Richard Cawley @RichCawleySLP Issue is largely down to drainage system collapsing. That can't be addressed until the end of the season. #cafc
I just saw that on Twitter, he is much maligned but Cawley is ok.
But god forbid the club may be telling the truth and that things have been over played by fans and media
The main gripe is the tardiness of the announcement which is more than a little within the clubs control. They should have insisted on a much earlier inspection to save unnecessary disruption to people's lives.
If you argue that they thought it was fine and didn't see any reason for an earlier inspection then that's a bad misjudgement and, therefore, the club is still at fault.
They could have managed the situation a lot better.
If we ignore the lack of investment in rectifying a known drainage problem, it is pretty obvious what went wrong here.
A judgement was made that the pitch was in a better state than for the previous two league games. The ground staff will have given that opinion and those whose job it is to make the call for a pitch inspection on Friday decided it wasn't required.
The Official arrives around twelve by 1.00pm the game is called off due to his view that the pitch is unplayable.
Either its an honest difference of opinion between the club and the Ref or the water table has affected the pitch adversely between Friday and twelve on Saturday. Result - very late postponement - pissed off supporters and club looking very silly.
Thereafter the communication with fans has been found wanting.
An early pitch inspection seems to be what we need to do for all matches for the forseeable future now. Even if it is another ref - if he says it is ok - it is harder for match ref to disagree if it is clear the pitch conditions haven't changed from the earlier inspection. If they do change due to weather - well not much you can do about it. Of course on Saturday, if the pitch was deemed unplayable at say 9am, it wouldn't have improved by 3pm and a lot of trouble would have been avoided . However, If the pitch was no worse or indeed better than for the Wednesday game, you can sort of undertsand why the club thought there was no issue with the game being played.
If we ignore the lack of investment in rectifying a known drainage problem, it is pretty obvious what went wrong here.
A judgement was made that the pitch was in a better state than for the previous two league games. The ground staff will have given that opinion and those whose job it is to make the call for a pitch inspection on Friday decided it wasn't required.
The Official arrives around twelve by 1.00pm the game is called off due to his view that the pitch is unplayable.
Either its an honest difference of opinion between the club and the Ref or the water table has affected the pitch adversely between Friday and twelve on Saturday. Result - very late postponement - pissed off supporters and club looking very silly.
Thereafter the communication with fans has been found wanting.
both managers are said to have agreed though I think?
When is a good time to plant vegetable seeds (carrots, courgettes, etc)? I have just dug a couple of planting areas in the garden and the kids need to know when to put the seeds in. Thanks in advance to any one of you professional gardeners.
Where exactly did the drainage collapse? I have heard it's just one section and it's under the pitch but does anyone know anything more specific? The reason I ask is because usually (in my very basic knowledge of such things!) when something collapses the thing on top of it goes down. The pitch dosen't appear to have collapsed so I wondered how the drainage under it could have and left the surface flat but the drains blocked / fallen in / ineffective undernieth it.
Where exactly did the drainage collapse? I have heard it's just one section and it's under the pitch but does anyone know anything more specific? The reason I ask is because usually (in my very basic knowledge of such things!) when something collapses the thing on top of it goes down. The pitch dosen't appear to have collapsed so I wondered how the drainage under it could have and left the surface flat but the drains blocked / fallen in / ineffective undernieth it.
Maybe it is blocked with mud - whatever - it needs digging up to fix.
after tomorrow if it goes ahead, they will have til the 8th Feb (assuming us or Bournemouth go through to the next round, altho that fixture could be brought forward, to next week, but that's unlikely isn't it?) to fix it, surely enough time? and fly in some turf?(I say this without any technical knowledge of drains/pitches whatsoever)
I guess it also depends how much of the pitch they need to dig up too
The problem is of course - we had a drainage system that was working fine when we were in the Premiership - a drain has collapesed relatively recently. Had it not - the pitch would probably be in good nick, as it has been in previous seasons.
Proposals were put to the board in the Premier League - around 2003 - to install undersoil heating and upgrade the drainage. They were rejected on cost grounds.
However, that is so long ago it comes under ifs and buts, in my opinion.
Varney stated in the programme for Paddy Powell's testimonial game in the summer that him and the board let him down during the premiership years by not investing properly in the pitch.
as supporters of cafc we need to stop needing someone to blame all the time, Saturday was a decision made by the ref no one else
the club and those paid to make the decisions with regards to the condition of the pitch have said and I have repeated it every time on here , that based on the last 2 games that were played to conclusion, the pitch was in a comparable state,
therefore those fine employees who have worked tirelessly and long hours trying to put everything right on a shoestring used their experience and the recent games as the bench mark as to if a pitch inspection was needed on Friday or early sat the result was no it was not required
the new ref decided during his walk that it was not playable and called it off , it is this differing opinion and lack of consistency with Refs again like we have seen all season on the pitch that meant the game was off at such a late stage and therefore leaving cafc to get ridiculed and berated by fan of other clubs and worse of all our own
you can bet your arse that the benchmark for the suitability of the pitch has now lowered again and that pitch state from sat will be the marker for a callout
it was terrible some of the expenses I have read on here and I genuinely feel sorry for them affected
but the over reaction and hysteria of posts and the need to blame Bradshaw immediately without taking in what the message said
was evident there are people on here who work on the pitch and the training ground who came on and told you the story themselves
yes powell agreed with the postponement but I know for 100% certainty he would've agreed with the game commencing , powell was aware of the conditions as was the players and certainly had prepared them all for it ,
to blame bradshaw, you have to blame powell and the ground staff,
the ship is not rudderless and without a captain, it just has key members missing,
Where exactly did the drainage collapse? I have heard it's just one section and it's under the pitch but does anyone know anything more specific? The reason I ask is because usually (in my very basic knowledge of such things!) when something collapses the thing on top of it goes down. The pitch dosen't appear to have collapsed so I wondered how the drainage under it could have and left the surface flat but the drains blocked / fallen in / ineffective undernieth it.
Maybe it is blocked with mud - whatever - it needs digging up to fix.
The suggestion I read is that it was to do with the Covered End being rebuilt. This would suggest that the damage would not be obvious on the pitch but would result in the drains backing up. Having said that, it looks more like the soil structure has broken down as the problem is across the wear areas of the pitch.
Given the Cup postponement this one could have been handled differently and saved a lot of people a lot of aggro and expense. if Mr Bradshaw wants to shrug, say 'shit happens' or 'what can you do'? then he should leave. It is not right to have left things until after 1pm last Saturday. I suspect Mr Bradshaw doesn't really care and feels irritated and exasperated by those who feel put out, and reckons the paying supporters are basically plebs.
While I do think that the buck stops with Steve Bradshaw the rest of your post is way way way over the top.
It really doesn't help the debate in the same way your personal vilification of Steve Waggott ("he smiles a lot") didn't help.
It is ironic that you use the term "plebs" which it turned out was made up by a vindictive group of police officers trying to bring a minister down.
Criticise Bradshaw, Slater, Jimenez, Murray, Powell (Chris or Colin), Duchetlet or whoever for their actions but not for imagined "feelings" or statements you have put in their mouths.
The clue is in me saying 'I suspect' not putting anything in anybody's mouth. The (old) Steve Waggott saga was about his wage verses what ever he was supposed to do at his work. Yeah it was personal in as much as my season ticket money, my personal money, was going towards his wage. You may call it personal vilification, and it is admirable you stand up for your friend, I call it questioning his position at the time. I reckon it was helpful, although maybe not for Coventry City obviously.
As for my wanting to blame Mr Bradshaw, well yes I do. What is the opposite of plebs huh? Paying customers? Decent supporters? If you think in the light of last Saturdays malarkey we were treated like decent supporters and paying customers well I disagree. There was plenty of opportunity all week to constantly monitor the pitch, get everything into place, so if the game couldn't happen supporters could have known much earlier.
The pitch was reported in the week to be in a better condition than prior to Brighton and Ipswich, but not that it was playable. To be playable it would take a decent (referees?) pitch inspection which didn't happen before mid day Saturday. Then the news came out bit by bit. Mr Bradshaws apology today is noted, but there is no decent reason given as to why things went to such a late hour.
I imagine the poor Barnsley supporter who got the night bus from and to Glasgow for the game is glad that Mr Bradshaw is now (Monday afternoon) 'sorry'. I bet he would have preferred to have known about the pitch on Friday evening before he set off rather than get an apology today.
I was hardly personally inconvenienced because I live locally, mind you I hate postponements of any kind. I could have planned for something else if I had know earlier. You may notice Henry by my use of a lot of 'I's in this paragraph that I am personally cheesed off by Mr Bradshaw. If this is how paying customers and decent supporters are treated, god help the plebs.
The pitch was reported in the week to be in a better condition than prior to Brighton and Ipswich, but not that it was playable. To be playable it would take a decent (referees?) pitch inspection which didn't happen before mid day Saturday. Then the news came out bit by bit. Mr Bradshaws apology today is noted, but there is no decent reason given as to why things went to such a late hour.
This is not correct Seth , Nathan has clearly said it was playable Saturday based on the games that were played against Brighton and Sheff weds and that why they deemed it not nesc to get it inspected, based on the the previous 2 refs opinions of a pitch that was comparable if not better than those 2 games,
I imagine the poor Barnsley supporter who got the night bus from and to Glasgow for the game is glad that Mr Bradshaw is now (Monday afternoon) 'sorry'. I bet he would have preferred to have known about the pitch on Friday evening before he set off rather than get an apology today.
Not our problem tbf to Bradshaw and all he can offer is his apology,
So where was Mr Bradshaw on Saturday afternoon? Despite being angry, most people will listen to an honest explanation. The statement issued on Saturday - after several hours - is pitiful. That compounded the problem when it should have mitigated it. It meant the club got a kicking on national radio, as well as from supporters.
And if the response is that the club doesn't have a head of comms (which I don't personally think is the explanation), it is five months since Matt Wright left and six since he resigned. So whose fault is that?
Sorry the Nathan stuff has passed me by today. Nathan saying it was playable is not the same as a ref saying so. However we had two postponements against Oxford in the cup. To me that would signal that just possibly we would not be that sure 'in house' as it were that the pitch was now ready to pass a referees scrutiny? A second opinion was apparently an option on the Friday that was declined due to in house judgements. ordinarily that would seem to be fair enough, but not in the context of last weeks two postponements, the crap weather as well, and the distraction of dome shenanigans. Much more care should have been taken on this matter, much more and it wasn't. The phenomenology demonstrates that more could have been done for all parties prior to Saturday lunchtime, and that view is seemingly partially endorsed by some of the people from Barnsley too. If anybody needs any more convincing look at the actual vids of the state of the pitch anyway. Are we expected to believe that the postponement was a complete and utter surprise to all?
So where was Mr Bradshaw on Saturday afternoon? Despite being angry, most people will listen to an honest explanation. The statement issued on Saturday - after several hours - is pitiful. That compounded the problem when it should have mitigated it. It meant the club got a kicking on national radio, as well as from supporters.
And if the response is that the club doesn't have a head of comms (which I don't personally think is the explanation), it is five months since Matt Wright left and six since he resigned. So whose fault is that?
Sorry the Nathan stuff has passed me by today. Nathan saying it was playable is not the same as a ref saying so. However we had two postponements against Oxford in the cup. To me that would signal that just possibly we would not be that sure 'in house' as it were that the pitch was now ready to pass a referees scrutiny? A second opinion was apparently an option on the Friday that was declined due to in house judgements. ordinarily that would seem to be fair enough, but not in the context of last weeks two postponements, the crap weather as well, and the distraction of dome shenanigans. Much more care should have been taken on this matter, much more and it wasn't. The phenomenology demonstrates that more could have been done for all parties prior to Saturday lunchtime, and that view is seemingly partially endorsed by some of the people from Barnsley too. If anybody needs any more convincing look at the actual vids of the state of the pitch anyway. Are we expected to believe that the postponement was a complete and utter surprise to all?
Just so I am clear, what would you now like to happen ? Perhaps especially by way of individual blame and / or repercussions?
I have listened to Nathans video. Clearly things were as I indicated - a difference between the club's (groundstaff) view of the playability of the pitch and unfortunately the one person who's view counted the most - the referree. That was not the clubs fault - shit happens.
As for the bigger picture - the pitch suffers from under-investment in that primarily they didn't "fix it whilst the Premier League sun was shining". People running businesses have to make decisions about all manner of things. Many well run businesses fail to take preventative maintenance seriously enough - its easier to ignore and hope things go away when your priorities are on the pitch not under it. No doubt MS/Cash/TJ didn't want to spend out money that they could leave to new investors. Now the new owner/management team will have to micro-manage the pitch issue as best they can for the remainder of the season including crossing their fingers, and doing a sundance
As for the communication with fans - the quicker they employ somebody with the right skill set, the better. I am sure they know this.
So where was Mr Bradshaw on Saturday afternoon? Despite being angry, most people will listen to an honest explanation. The statement issued on Saturday - after several hours - is pitiful. That compounded the problem when it should have mitigated it. It meant the club got a kicking on national radio, as well as from supporters.
And if the response is that the club doesn't have a head of comms (which I don't personally think is the explanation), it is five months since Matt Wright left and six since he resigned. So whose fault is that?
Sorry the Nathan stuff has passed me by today. Nathan saying it was playable is not the same as a ref saying so. However we had two postponements against Oxford in the cup. To me that would signal that just possibly we would not be that sure 'in house' as it were that the pitch was now ready to pass a referees scrutiny? A second opinion was apparently an option on the Friday that was declined due to in house judgements. ordinarily that would seem to be fair enough, but not in the context of last weeks two postponements, the crap weather as well, and the distraction of dome shenanigans. Much more care should have been taken on this matter, much more and it wasn't. The phenomenology demonstrates that more could have been done for all parties prior to Saturday lunchtime, and that view is seemingly partially endorsed by some of the people from Barnsley too. If anybody needs any more convincing look at the actual vids of the state of the pitch anyway. Are we expected to believe that the postponement was a complete and utter surprise to all?
Just so I am clear, what would you now like to happen ? Perhaps especially by way of individual blame and / or repercussions?
For a start I hope that everything works properly tomorrow.
As Airman has said, the communication on Saturday was a joke.
I might be cyncical but all these interviews and extended statements now reek of damage limitation. I suspect the FL are gunning for us and we are getting our excuses in first.
Barnsley have their view. We have ours. Barnsley blame us, we blame the ref. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
Comments
If you argue that they thought it was fine and didn't see any reason for an earlier inspection then that's a bad misjudgement and, therefore, the club is still at fault.
They could have managed the situation a lot better.
A judgement was made that the pitch was in a better state than for the previous two league games. The ground staff will have given that opinion and those whose job it is to make the call for a pitch inspection on Friday decided it wasn't required.
The Official arrives around twelve by 1.00pm the game is called off due to his view that the pitch is unplayable.
Either its an honest difference of opinion between the club and the Ref or the water table has affected the pitch adversely between Friday and twelve on Saturday. Result - very late postponement - pissed off supporters and club looking very silly.
Thereafter the communication with fans has been found wanting.
I have just dug a couple of planting areas in the garden and the kids need to know when to put the seeds in.
Thanks in advance to any one of you professional gardeners.
The reason I ask is because usually (in my very basic knowledge of such things!) when something collapses the thing on top of it goes down. The pitch dosen't appear to have collapsed so I wondered how the drainage under it could have and left the surface flat but the drains blocked / fallen in / ineffective undernieth it.
I guess it also depends how much of the pitch they need to dig up too
as supporters of cafc we need to stop needing someone to blame all the time, Saturday was a decision made by the ref no one else
the club and those paid to make the decisions with regards to the condition of the pitch have said and I have repeated it every time on here , that based on the last 2 games that were played to conclusion, the pitch was in a comparable state,
therefore those fine employees who have worked tirelessly and long hours trying to put everything right on a shoestring used their experience and the recent games as the bench mark as to if a pitch inspection was needed on Friday or early sat the result was no it was not required
the new ref decided during his walk that it was not playable and called it off , it is this differing opinion and lack of consistency with Refs again like we have seen all season on the pitch that meant the game was off at such a late stage and therefore leaving cafc to get ridiculed and berated by fan of other clubs and worse of all our own
you can bet your arse that the benchmark for the suitability of the pitch has now lowered again and that pitch state from sat will be the marker for a callout
it was terrible some of the expenses I have read on here and I genuinely feel sorry for them affected
but the over reaction and hysteria of posts and the need to blame Bradshaw immediately without taking in what the message said
was evident there are people on here who work on the pitch and the training ground who came on and told you the story themselves
yes powell agreed with the postponement but I know for 100% certainty he would've agreed with the game commencing , powell was aware of the conditions as was the players and certainly had prepared them all for it ,
to blame bradshaw, you have to blame powell and the ground staff,
the ship is not rudderless and without a captain, it just has key members missing,
youtu.be/T3hhWQd_1_4
As for my wanting to blame Mr Bradshaw, well yes I do. What is the opposite of plebs huh? Paying customers? Decent supporters? If you think in the light of last Saturdays malarkey we were treated like decent supporters and paying customers well I disagree. There was plenty of opportunity all week to constantly monitor the pitch, get everything into place, so if the game couldn't happen supporters could have known much earlier.
The pitch was reported in the week to be in a better condition than prior to Brighton and Ipswich, but not that it was playable. To be playable it would take a decent (referees?) pitch inspection which didn't happen before mid day Saturday. Then the news came out bit by bit. Mr Bradshaws apology today is noted, but there is no decent reason given as to why things went to such a late hour.
I imagine the poor Barnsley supporter who got the night bus from and to Glasgow for the game is glad that Mr Bradshaw is now (Monday afternoon) 'sorry'. I bet he would have preferred to have known about the pitch on Friday evening before he set off rather than get an apology today.
I was hardly personally inconvenienced because I live locally, mind you I hate postponements of any kind. I could have planned for something else if I had know earlier. You may notice Henry by my use of a lot of 'I's in this paragraph that I am personally cheesed off by Mr Bradshaw. If this is how paying customers and decent supporters are treated, god help the plebs.
The pitch was reported in the week to be in a better condition than prior to Brighton and Ipswich, but not that it was playable. To be playable it would take a decent (referees?) pitch inspection which didn't happen before mid day Saturday. Then the news came out bit by bit. Mr Bradshaws apology today is noted, but there is no decent reason given as to why things went to such a late hour.
This is not correct Seth , Nathan has clearly said it was playable Saturday based on the games that were played against Brighton and Sheff weds and that why they deemed it not nesc to get it inspected, based on the the previous 2 refs opinions of a pitch that was comparable if not better than those 2 games,
I imagine the poor Barnsley supporter who got the night bus from and to Glasgow for the game is glad that Mr Bradshaw is now (Monday afternoon) 'sorry'. I bet he would have preferred to have known about the pitch on Friday evening before he set off rather than get an apology today.
Not our problem tbf to Bradshaw and all he can offer is his apology,
And if the response is that the club doesn't have a head of comms (which I don't personally think is the explanation), it is five months since Matt Wright left and six since he resigned. So whose fault is that?
Who do I blame and what level of compo can I expect ?
However we had two postponements against Oxford in the cup. To me that would signal that just possibly we would not be that sure 'in house' as it were that the pitch was now ready to pass a referees scrutiny? A second opinion was apparently an option on the Friday that was declined due to in house judgements. ordinarily that would seem to be fair enough, but not in the context of last weeks two postponements, the crap weather as well, and the distraction of dome shenanigans.
Much more care should have been taken on this matter, much more and it wasn't. The phenomenology demonstrates that more could have been done for all parties prior to Saturday lunchtime, and that view is seemingly partially endorsed by some of the people from Barnsley too.
If anybody needs any more convincing look at the actual vids of the state of the pitch anyway. Are we expected to believe that the postponement was a complete and utter surprise to all?
As for the bigger picture - the pitch suffers from under-investment in that primarily they didn't "fix it whilst the Premier League sun was shining". People running businesses have to make decisions about all manner of things. Many well run businesses fail to take preventative maintenance seriously enough - its easier to ignore and hope things go away when your priorities are on the pitch not under it. No doubt MS/Cash/TJ didn't want to spend out money that they could leave to new investors. Now the new owner/management team will have to micro-manage the pitch issue as best they can for the remainder of the season including crossing their fingers, and doing a sundance
As for the communication with fans - the quicker they employ somebody with the right skill set, the better. I am sure they know this.
I might be cyncical but all these interviews and extended statements now reek of damage limitation. I suspect the FL are gunning for us and we are getting our excuses in first.
Barnsley have their view. We have ours. Barnsley blame us, we blame the ref. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
Regardless it was handled poorly.