No time to wait and see we all need to be 100% behind the new look team! the average age must have fallen a little and will fall a lot more in the summer.
Can't wait for the Birmingham game. Must win to get this team up and running - if Powell can get it to gel then we are laughing. If not well I don't want to go there!
After new signings and Wiggins extension, the number of players on long term deals is now 10 or 11and I guess maybe half of those running out this summer might get 1 year renewals so everything to play for.
Always knew Wiggins would not sign again after the Villa non-deal 18 months ago but was surprised how the Kermorgant thing panned out. Two players gone but a fair few in - let's see.
I agree tbh, completely. To everyone saying we've lost our best players and we're going down. Take a look at the table. It wasn't working anyway.
Selling Alnwick was not the worst move. Yeah he's been in form lately but he's not going to keep us up or make a huge impact to the squad. No more than Hamer or Thuram anyway, it's not like they've come from the local pub team to play for us. Thuram was a bit dodgy on his debut for us but what did everyone expect? We were against an in form Boro and our defense wasn't great. He pulled off a few stops and I don't see the problem with him stepping in. If Alnwick was such a gem then why was he offloaded everywhere and is now playing for a League1 team? We got the best out of him but we can do better, that's that. I will praise his performances lately but that doesn't mean we needed to keep him.
Yann I'm a bit pissy over, his goal ratio isn't good but what he did for us was brilliant. He's not a 20 goals a season player but he was important to us. Still if the club wanted to sell him on/he wanted to leave then so be it, we've got two new forwards and I'm really excited to see them play. They both seem to want to be here and both have decent goal records and there is no way on earth they can be worse than Church. I think Yann looked a lot better at times than what he is purely cause of the lack of talent around him, but we'll see.
As for Dale again not too fussed, he's stepped it up for us but for the amount we got for him, I don't think it was a bad move. Bare in mind how lucky we got at Huddersfield with his incident and the fact that he 'misses north' what a load of shit that was. Do we really want a player here who's heart wasn't in the right place anyway? AA or Poyet can take his role if we can't find someone by the end of tonight. Who knows they may even work out better for us than he did with all our new players coming in.
People need to give Roland a chance to figure out the kinks for the club HE paid for. He got us out of debt and tbh I haven't found Charlton this exciting to follow in a long time in the transfer business. Imagine if he didn't buy us? We'd have lost all our players and signed no one and we'd no doubt be complaining that no one bought us and to top it all off no ambition for the future.
Overall I may be wrong but I think he is making some decent decisions and I think we're going to stay up and next season we'll be in a far better position. I really hope he sticks with Powell and sees where things go. CP deserves this opportunity he has and I really hope he's our manager on a permanent basis.
Seriously need to get behind our club, far too much negativity, the fact i've seen people compare RD to Vincent Tan is a joke.
Charlton are in the bottom 3 not because of Yann or Stephens are not good enough but because football is a team game. There was great gaping obvious to all weaknesses in the Charlton team, like a decent strike partner for Yann / right half / left half and right back when Solly is injured. Blaming those for our position is just not right. If the weakness were addressed and we had kept the quality of Yann and Stephens then the team would be pushing top 6.
I accept that this is a new era and everyone has got to get on with it but we haven't kept all the quality in the squad and built on we had. This is total revolution and change. Its a different strategy and lets not blame our best players for being in the bottom 3 when the squad is massively weak and the main problem.
I want to be positive about this and I'm excited about the new signings. Its a great effort to turn around our season and deserves to succeed. Well said Chizz.
I wrote ages ago (yesterday) that the crucial dynamic playing out is the relationship between Chris Powell, and Mr Duchatelet.
Somebody wrote that Roland is one for recording the pro's and cons of a situation on a bit of paper to help his decision making.
What are the pros and cons for Chris?
The club was stagnating, now it knows where it is going. He was getting no help with player resources before, but he is now. Some of the new players were pretty unknown to him and he might feel foisted upon and awkward about that, but some (like Piotr and Gradel...[yes I know but my point still holds]) were know to him. He has reluctantly lost some players who he felt were integral, but Wiggy, and recently some promising youngsters have been signed up long term. He has lost players he knows, including their limitations, but he has an excited anticipation regarding what international players like Reza and Piotr might bring. He has not been offered his contract, but if he is successful with Rolands 'plan' and we stay up, then he has a new world of opportunities opening up next season (please God).
There are other pros and cons too, like the position of the whole football management team, and the toss up between welcoming instability and confrontation to be wholly assertive, or to attempt to work well according to the new set of circumstances, to be positive about everything.
Chris has asked for the backing of the fans right now. We are bewildered, upset, excited, exhausted, anticipating, dreaming and hoping...but certainly not bored!
These are indeed interesting times, drink them in to the full, get behind Chris, get behind the players, lets get together and show there is a third dimension, us, the fans.
I agree with Chizz though possibly for different reasons. We think of our team as Charlton, but the new owner thinks of us as the London Branch. His right hand lady is, I read, an expert on contracts and I imagine she has combed through, not only The London Branch players but the rest of the comglomerate. If a player has six months to go and then is able to walk away, it makes sense if he is sold so long as their are replacements in the stable. He had a surplus keeper and moved him over and then we had three keepers, had to get rid of one. He';s brought in some players from other parts of the organisation, trimming overall costs. He is treating us like a business and internal transfers are prevalent in most businesses. I can't imagine he's even thinking of relegation, doesn't make sense, but has a plan. I believe its the Golden Rule plan, he who has the gold, makes the rules. Have faith, all will be revealed soon.....
I ain't got a clue what's going on especially after 5 pints of Stella But even if dale and yann had stayed we might of gone down Roland has pulled in a million? If we were to stay up good bit of business maybe If we go down is he that much worse off I'd like to know the wages of the players he I'd bringing in
No time to wait and see we all need to be 100% behind the new look team! the average age must have fallen a little and will fall a lot more in the summer.
Can't wait for the Birmingham game. Must win to get this team up and running - if Powell can get it to gel then we are laughing. If not well I don't want to go there!
After new signings and Wiggins extension, the number of players on long term deals is now 10 or 11and I guess maybe half of those running out this summer might get 1 year renewals so everything to play for.
Always knew Stephens would not sign again after the Villa non-deal 18 months ago but was surprised how the Kermorgant thing panned out. Two players gone but a fair few in - let's see.
No need to wait. Come to Wigan.
No time for big away trips right now plus it is our daughter's birthday party
Having said that I'm up for the cup this season so looking forward to Brum at home and Wednesday ... think we will know after those two whether this has been a bump in the road or we are heading for a train smash
I ain't got a clue what's going on especially after 5 pints of Stella But even if dale and yann had stayed we might of gone down Roland has pulled in a million? If we were to stay up good bit of business maybe If we go down is he that much worse off I'd like to know the wages of the players he I'd bringing in
Did you know clb74 that RD has to pay £4million to TJ / MS if the team stays in the champs and doesn't have to pay them 4 million if they go down ? RD is not bothered about relegation and in some ways, I think he would prefer for a team to play in league one next year and maybe push for promotion (hopefully) the next year whilst having a chance to gel and gets some victories, and build confidence.
This is a bit like when Charlton were relegated from the champs last time and Parkinson spent the last 20 games mostly not winning but building the team spirit for a decent start at league one.
Read this quote from above ''Yann and Stephens were not going to keep us up. They will be missed but we now have some exciting new players;''
They were still two of our best players (apart from Solly and Wiggins). Stephens and Cousins were a good midfield combination. You don't get rid of players of this calibre if ambitious. By the way has anyone seen ''these exciting new players'' except via U-tube where you don't know the strength of the opposition. Never been so despondent about the next game, as I believe this would have been OK close-season, but not the present moment. No time for new players to blend in. Did we need a new keeper? People who are saying we were in the bottom 3 with current squad, what if we win games in hand? I feel Chris Powell is being completely undermined and fear for the rest of the season, but hope that I'm entirely wrong.
"The capital income from the player sales, plus the operational cost savings of high-paid players more than outweighs the fees paid and the new staff costs."
I assume "capital income" means transfer fees. Since you appear to have information on these, and the salaries of both the outgoing and incoming players, could you kindly share the figures with us, so that the rest of us can evaluate the figures, and then decide whether we can agree with your opinion, with the same facts at our disposal.
For me, the fact remains that without the appearance of RD, we'd likely have lost Yann and Stephens any way, and maybe more besides (Cousins perhaps?) as Slater and co. bailed out with leaking buckets. Wiggins would not have a new contract, and any replacements we did manage to scrape together would be at the very best mediocre, cheap for a reason.
It was not long ago we were sold the likes of Pawel Abbot and Danny N'Guessan as BIG signings. Our biggest signing was an injury prone Fuller, as likely to rupture his ligaments as the back of the net. It may all yet go wrong, but whatever happens, we are in a much better position to survive what will be a chaotic remainder of the season. Old or new, I will be behind all our new players, and our manager. I make no claims to know what will happen, but I do know I owe it to them, and to myself, to see it through to the end.
Well newbie if TJ / MS had actually put the club for sale 18 months ago for the money that RD bought the club for, we would likely not be part of some mad euro club networking experiment and some potentially good owners who would have funded a push for promotion to the premiership rather than planning for a push for promotion from League One next season.
I do agree that RD has played a blinding hand. That was allowing him the space to completely rebuild the team without worry about the loss of the 4 million for the championship money if relegated. I wonder if TJ / MS saw that coming ?
The rebuilding is half done and will be completed in the summer. The team may be very competitive in league one. It will be completely different again from now. I doubt it will contain Solly, who will be sold when fitness is proved.
Well newbie if TJ / MS had actually put the club for sale 18 months ago for the money that RD bought the club for, we would likely not be part of some mad euro club networking experiment and some potentially good owners who would have funded a push for promotion to the premiership rather than planning for a push for promotion from League One next season.
RD has been here less than a month. I have no idea what he aims are in the short or long term... guess what, neither does anyone else! Even those with informed suspicions can't know if they were right or wrong until the end of the season, wherever it is we end up. Planning to be relegated deliberately is counter-intuitive to anyone who knows a thing about football, much less one who rejuvenated a club and got them to the top of the league.
Maybe lightning won't strike twice, maybe 'the mad Euro experiment' will fail. But maybe we have got a good owner already. But assuming the worst and second guessing every decision RD makes at so early a stage is foolhardy at best. I don't know any more than the next man about how the next few months will progress, but I am willing to at least concede there are several possibilities, for better or worse. I mean, maybe TJ/MS would have palmed the whole sorry mess off to a semi-rich mate and we'd be no better off. Maybe Harris would try and run the place Moneyball style, which hasn't really worked too well in English football to date. But that didn't happen. Until things become clearer, all I can do to affect the status quo is to support my team through rain and sun, storm and siesta, and that is exactly what I intend to do.
Not sure we can call it a brilliant hand yet. We have certainly shuffled the deck though and could be what's needed. My feelings are that I'm content. Gutted Yann has gone tbh but we have two potentially very decent strikers who will hopefully help us forget the second they bang in their first goal in front of the covered end.
Not fussed about Stephens the player leaving - has been decent for us during his time but am fussed one of our first choice midfielders has gone without obvious replacement. Maybe Astrid will fill the gap or we can get a loan in but if that don't happen then we can't really be considered strengthened.
A lot rests on the strikers coming up trumps and fast. But who knows maybe some fresh faces is all it takes given our squad has barely changed since we come up.
And goes without saying - no matter what start we get off to after window shuts our support for CP and the team on the pitch cannot falter. Relegation will be down to the players on the pitch but we gotta play our part while they out there.
Love Chizzs post. While ideally you would not choose to sell key players in the jam window, in the long term we will be better without these journeymen. Stephens spent a WHOLE SEASON sulking last tear, and kermorgant has come back fat as fuck 2 summers in a row. I would put money on these 2 cunts finishing their career as journeyman no marks. To the future x
Well done and fair play to you Newbie. Am going by RDs actions and not second guessing at all. Certainly not going by press statements or interviews as they are not accurate. Hope Astrid steps up or works well with Cousins and Jackson, maybe Poyet will come come good. I hope so because the midfield is looking kind of weak at the moment. It won't be the first time that decent strikers at Charlton won't have scored much due to poor service. Bringing in these new strikers, I am surprised that more strength was not provided for the midfield.
RD is totally rebuilding the team to his plan and set up. We will see where they leads. That will be without CP and its just a question of when that happens not if.
It is good to have realistic expectations as to what is actually going on. It stops manic depressive swings when things don't go right.
Kermorgant stands, in my estimation, as the best all-round talent (not to mention talisman) we've had since we left the Premier League... It seems inexplicable not to offer him, within reason, what he wants. Dale Stephens (though some will disagree) is arguably the most accomplished passer and creative force, also since we came down in 2007. That they've not done it as consistently as needs dictate, is not their fault, given the overall state of the squad.... Now, I know nothing of our new European recruits, but an extremely concerned. Are we still going to see Green and Pritchard and Evina in the sixteen each week?? Has the world gone completely mad??? Does Duchatalet (have I spelt that correctly) have any idea what it takes to survive at this level????
Well, something had to be done. Powell's football was getting worse even with Yann and Stephens as regulars. This now forces his hand. He now has two mobile young forwards. Perhaps he may revert to playing the kind of attractive football we saw when he last had two mobile forwards (BWP & Paul Hayes) in the side. That changed when Yann arrived. The results improved with Yann, but the football became progressively worse. We need to start playing some football again. It's an entertainment business and we were about as entertaining as watching paint dry most of the time.
Well, something had to be done. Powell's football was getting worse even with Yann and Stephens as regulars. This now forces his hand. He now has two mobile young forwards. Perhaps he may revert to playing the kind of attractive football we saw when he last had two mobile forwards (BWP & Paul Hayes) in the side. That changed when Yann arrived. The results improved with Yann, but the football became progressively worse. We need to start playing some football again. It's an entertainment business and we were about as entertaining as watching paint dry most of the time.
Paul Hayes? Mobile? He was more of a link-player than anything else, not really a channel-runner or over-the-top man.
I'd like to think that we can only pass judgement on the Yann and Stephens transfers in hindsight at the end of the season.
There is a very good possibility that this is a Semedo moment - the player sold was much better than others around so looked outstanding, but the players coming in are genuine class and might make Yann and Stephens feel like Semedo and Llera in hindsight.
Also, we're one of only about 25 clubs in Europe who can boast of having a striker who will be first choice for their country at the world cup. No way we can go down with a player like Reza...COYR
I can see how the new owner's philosophy could work for us in the longer term. What concerns me is that we might have needed a bit of a transition period in relation to moving from one approach to another. Ok, we were trying to do some business that didn't come off, and had it done so we would probably have been stronger - but we didn't. Not too late but we are in a position where a couple of rabbits need to be pulled out of the hat. Is RD going to be willing to do that? Time will tell, but I am certainly not relaxed about where we are now!
Comments
I accept that this is a new era and everyone has got to get on with it but we haven't kept all the quality in the squad and built on we had. This is total revolution and change. Its a different strategy and lets not blame our best players for being in the bottom 3 when the squad is massively weak and the main problem.
Somebody wrote that Roland is one for recording the pro's and cons of a situation on a bit of paper to help his decision making.
What are the pros and cons for Chris?
The club was stagnating, now it knows where it is going.
He was getting no help with player resources before, but he is now.
Some of the new players were pretty unknown to him and he might feel foisted upon and awkward about that, but some (like Piotr and Gradel...[yes I know but my point still holds]) were know to him.
He has reluctantly lost some players who he felt were integral, but Wiggy, and recently some promising youngsters have been signed up long term.
He has lost players he knows, including their limitations, but he has an excited anticipation regarding what international players like Reza and Piotr might bring.
He has not been offered his contract, but if he is successful with Rolands 'plan' and we stay up, then he has a new world of opportunities opening up next season (please God).
There are other pros and cons too, like the position of the whole football management team, and the toss up between welcoming instability and confrontation to be wholly assertive, or to attempt to work well according to the new set of circumstances, to be positive about everything.
Chris has asked for the backing of the fans right now. We are bewildered, upset, excited, exhausted, anticipating, dreaming and hoping...but certainly not bored!
These are indeed interesting times, drink them in to the full, get behind Chris, get behind the players, lets get together and show there is a third dimension, us, the fans.
But even if dale and yann had stayed we might of gone down Roland has pulled in a million?
If we were to stay up good bit of business maybe
If we go down is he that much worse off
I'd like to know the wages of the players he I'd bringing in
Having said that I'm up for the cup this season so looking forward to Brum at home and Wednesday ... think we will know after those two whether this has been a bump in the road or we are heading for a train smash
This is a bit like when Charlton were relegated from the champs last time and Parkinson spent the last 20 games mostly not winning but building the team spirit for a decent start at league one.
''Yann and Stephens were not going to keep us up. They will be missed but we now have some exciting new players;''
They were still two of our best players (apart from Solly and Wiggins). Stephens and Cousins were a good midfield combination.
You don't get rid of players of this calibre if ambitious. By the way has anyone seen ''these exciting new players'' except via
U-tube where you don't know the strength of the opposition. Never been so despondent about the next game, as I believe this would have been OK close-season, but not the present moment. No time for new players to blend in. Did we need a new keeper? People who are saying we were in the bottom 3 with current squad, what if we win games in hand? I feel Chris Powell is being completely undermined and fear for the rest of the season, but hope that I'm entirely wrong.
You wrote:
"The capital income from the player sales, plus the operational cost savings of high-paid players more than outweighs the fees paid and the new staff costs."
I assume "capital income" means transfer fees. Since you appear to have information on these, and the salaries of both the outgoing and incoming players, could you kindly share the figures with us, so that the rest of us can evaluate the figures, and then decide whether we can agree with your opinion, with the same facts at our disposal.
Thank you.
It was not long ago we were sold the likes of Pawel Abbot and Danny N'Guessan as BIG signings. Our biggest signing was an injury prone Fuller, as likely to rupture his ligaments as the back of the net. It may all yet go wrong, but whatever happens, we are in a much better position to survive what will be a chaotic remainder of the season. Old or new, I will be behind all our new players, and our manager. I make no claims to know what will happen, but I do know I owe it to them, and to myself, to see it through to the end.
The rebuilding is half done and will be completed in the summer. The team may be very competitive in league one. It will be completely different again from now. I doubt it will contain Solly, who will be sold when fitness is proved.
Maybe lightning won't strike twice, maybe 'the mad Euro experiment' will fail. But maybe we have got a good owner already. But assuming the worst and second guessing every decision RD makes at so early a stage is foolhardy at best. I don't know any more than the next man about how the next few months will progress, but I am willing to at least concede there are several possibilities, for better or worse. I mean, maybe TJ/MS would have palmed the whole sorry mess off to a semi-rich mate and we'd be no better off. Maybe Harris would try and run the place Moneyball style, which hasn't really worked too well in English football to date. But that didn't happen. Until things become clearer, all I can do to affect the status quo is to support my team through rain and sun, storm and siesta, and that is exactly what I intend to do.
Not fussed about Stephens the player leaving - has been decent for us during his time but am fussed one of our first choice midfielders has gone without obvious replacement. Maybe Astrid will fill the gap or we can get a loan in but if that don't happen then we can't really be considered strengthened.
A lot rests on the strikers coming up trumps and fast. But who knows maybe some fresh faces is all it takes given our squad has barely changed since we come up.
Why regress?
RD is totally rebuilding the team to his plan and set up. We will see where they leads. That will be without CP and its just a question of when that happens not if.
It is good to have realistic expectations as to what is actually going on. It stops manic depressive swings when things don't go right.
There is a very good possibility that this is a Semedo moment - the player sold was much better than others around so looked outstanding, but the players coming in are genuine class and might make Yann and Stephens feel like Semedo and Llera in hindsight.
Also, we're one of only about 25 clubs in Europe who can boast of having a striker who will be first choice for their country at the world cup. No way we can go down with a player like Reza...COYR