congrats @heavenSE7 , it's a great feeling crossing that line. now onto the next one. how did you get on @JohnBoyUK ?
I've given up hope of a decent time at the kent roadrunner marathon, for various reasons I've done no long runs and the norovirus has just taken another week's training from me so it'll just be a jog round and target a quick time later in the year
really looking forward to working the 20 mile water station at London on sunday week, I always enjoy it and missed it last year when I ran instead
Was going great guns to halfway, went through in 2:03, bang on my 9:20-9:30 window then as we turned into that bastard upward drag at 14, I got cramp in my left hamstring, had cramp in my right hamstring by 15 and despite trying to run, I literally didn't run another full mile in the rest of the marathon.
Had to stop for a toilet break between 16-17 miles and nearly passed out on the throne. If I'd been in Brighton without my family (my girlfriend had brought my 9yo daughter down to watch for the first time), then I would have walked off the course at that point, I was in pieces. Couldn't let them down though. Hobbled through the last half in 2:40, for 4:43.
Absolutely gutted in all honesty. All my training runs were a breeze with no issues and I get rewarded for 3 months sacrifice like that. I've been a right grumpy sod since being home. Everyone else in my running club ran to near PB and I ran 20 mins slower than mine. Grrrr.
In the 5 marathons I've run, I've never suffered like I am now afterwards. Can hardly move. I even had cramp in my bloody arms.
Oh well, on that note, how far away is the Kent Roadrunner? 6 weeks away or so? Is it even remotely possible for me to stay in shape for that now or not?! Probably not. Have got 10 days in Mexico in between and that may hinder more than a little. Just means I'll have to book a few more later in the year now!
Well done @heavenSE7, good time for your first marathon given your injuries!
Just back from the Paris Marathon. Did it in 4 hour on the nose which was 25 minutes faster than my previous marathon effort in London 2 years ago but given the amount of training and the different styles of training too I was a bit disappointed not to go under 4 hours. BUT anyone who has ever finished a marathon is a bloody champion! So JohnBoy don't beat yourself up. Well done you for getting across the line come what may. You are alive and kicking and there will be other races to come! With a little one on the way I will have to postpone my next attempt (marathon training does take up an inordinate amount of time) but I know I will be back to aim for sub 4. Maybe one day I will still qualify for Boston in my good for age category! I can still aim that high!
Oh well, on that note, how far away is the Kent Roadrunner? 6 weeks away or so? Is it even remotely possible for me to stay in shape for that now or not?! Probably not.
7 weeks between brighton and KRR is plenty of time to rest up and recover for a bit before putting in a couple of longish runs to get the confidence back up and forget about your bad day at the office. you put in the miles in for brighton so you'll still have that fitness in a few weeks. just try not to put on too much weight in mexico
@JohnBoyUK Get lots of extra protein and calcium...
Probably not chocolate.
PS I dare you to do a training 5 miles in mexico.
I told her indoors that the first thing that gets put in my suitcase will be my running trainers and kit. I cant go 10 days without running, I'd go insane. If that means going out at 7am to avoid the heat then so be it
Oh well, on that note, how far away is the Kent Roadrunner? 6 weeks away or so? Is it even remotely possible for me to stay in shape for that now or not?! Probably not.
7 weeks between brighton and KRR is plenty of time to rest up and recover for a bit before putting in a couple of longish runs to get the confidence back up and forget about your bad day at the office. you put in the miles in for brighton so you'll still have that fitness in a few weeks. just try not to put on too much weight in mexico
Cheers Rina, thats made me feel a little better. As it currently stands, walking is an issue at the moment, let alone running but believe me, them running shoes will be back on sharpish once I'm feeling up to it. Will definitely be taking it easy this week though!
Agree with others. Stick it in the cupboard marked bad runs. Every distance runner has had at the very least one awful race with no clear reason why.
The flipside will be that we have also all had great runs off the back of poor preparation.
Get back out there do some steady runs and don't dwell on it.
The fact that you finished is testament to your strength of character so focus on that and ignore the time and the other crap that happens during the race.
You have done the work for a PB so in 7 weeks you should be back ready to get it.
Cheers @rina and @kigelia, you've made me feel better.
So what sort of runs should I be looking at over the next 6-7 weeks or so? Do I need to build in a 2 week taper again?
I'm going to give myself the rest of this week off and then start running again next week, gradually building the mileage up again. What would you recommend?
I'm a beginner and started last year. I was comfortable doing 5k's after completing the couch to 5k and could run 8km at around 5.25 per km. Winter put me off as I was travelling a lot and most of the times there was ice on the ground everywhere I went. Managed to run 5k 3 weeks ago but nothing since then.
Where should I start if I want to go again? start at 3km and build up a km each time? I am never quite sure what distances I should be going and if walking during a run is a cardinal sin.
Walking during a run is fine, I recommend starting off as you say 3k then 4 if that was easy etc.
Don't be afraid to get out and run when the weathers cold, you'll see plenty of runners braving it because it doesn't affect us as much as we assume it will.
+1 to what Dazzler says there. Nothing wrong with run/walking. Give me running in the cold and damp over the sunshine any time. At least I dont cramp up then!
Would not worry about distance this early on. Start based on time. Eg 15 minutes out. Turn round and head back. Worry about distance when you are getting fitter.
Congratulations to HeavenSE7 and GreenwithEnvy, good efforts and nice results!
John - feel your pain, that must have been so frustrating. I've only done three marathons and they've all gone great (I fear not for this one though) - but if one went unexpectedly badly, before writing it off as 'one of those things' I'd be looking at the differences in my training, taper and nutrition to see if there are any lessons to be learnt. Did I do enough runs at marathon pace and faster, did I race a half in the build up, did I carbo-load the same way, did I hydrate well the day before, did I have enough salt, did I drink too much water on the day ...? If you've had cramp before, can you think of anything in common with then? If you take gels, perhaps you overdid them?
I got over my knee injury (you referred to earlier) in a fortnight thanls, but it messed up my training - 100 miles less in March than last year and very little quality running. However, on Sunday I went out for a 16 mile run and my calf seized up after 10 and I had to get a lift back home. Haven't run since as it is still sore and tight, confident it will clear in time to get to the start line, but I might end up as a dreaded DNF.
For another marathon in 6 weeks Pete Pfitzinger two very easy weeks (I certainly wouldn't run this week), two regular marathon training weeks then a two week taper.
Anyway it takes a long time for fitness from marathon training to drain away so you could always exploit it in some halves and 10ks in May/June. Good luck.
For another marathon in 6 weeks Pete Pfitzinger two very easy weeks (I certainly wouldn't run this week), two regular marathon training weeks then a two week taper.
That looks about right, get in 2 longish runs and do the rest on feel. It's all about recovery and confidence rebuilding right now, the fitness isn't going to change much
Ha, ha. Funnily enough although it passes the end of my road and I have done the Bay 1/2 and the 10k several times in the past I haven't raced it for about 10 years now. I'm not really interested in PB's anymore (fortunately!) and I run that route or a variation of it three times a week so its attractions are limited tbh. I've run in a few races where this has happened and as a former Race Director myself I feel for them but by all accounts it was complete chaos this year.
Had an inspirational speech thing by Greg Whyte yesterday. He's the guy that planned, trained and ran/swam/cycled with davinia, David williams, john bishop, Eddie Izzard for the charity challenges and he's just got back from this desert run thing which sounded ho rrific! So inspiring! Some of you more serious runners should buy his book or at least research him for tips. Amazing stuff.
@Bournemouth Addick - what do you know of the Bournemouth marathon? I've just entered it having had to pull out of the Brighton marathon due to injury. Looking at the weather right now, an Autumn marathon with summer training is starting to look a lot more appealing.
Ran today for the first time in close to a decade. Literally only did a mile, but you have to start somewhere I guess
And again. Little bit further (and I really do mean a little bit) and a bit quicker. For a relatively slim 32 year old my fitness is appalling, did 1.2 miles today averaging 8:15 p/m. Hopefully il be upto 2 miles within a couple of weeks and will then set the next target
Thats the way to do it, @shine166. Go back 3-4 years, I couldnt run 200 yards without feeling sick and my lungs collapsing on me. From little acorns do big oak trees grow. Keep it manageable, keep it enjoyable and you'll have a great time and you'll see progress very quickly
@Bournemouth Addick - what do you know of the Bournemouth marathon? I've just entered it having had to pull out of the Brighton marathon due to injury. Looking at the weather right now, an Autumn marathon with summer training is starting to look a lot more appealing.
Awaiting BAs comments with interest. Looks a possibility for me if I dont get in Berlin (will find out in the next couple of weeks if I've got a place through my club!)
Reading the comments above I've noticed a lot comments about injuries etc. The best advice I ever had relates to not overdoing it and also recovery. You are very vulnerable to injury after a 26.2 mile run, your body is beaten. Don't push it. The endurance from training will stay with you for a long time after a marathon, so don't worry about losing it. The guidence I received is a mile a day recovery - so basically no intense/long runs for 26 days after the event. Obviously shorter races will be less. I did only short easy runs starting a week after the event. Personally I wouldn't be running more than a marathon a year if you want to be running into old age. Seen so many people over doing it - 3 marathons a year for several years etc. Signing up for everything in site. Most bodies can't handle that. The injuries become more frequent & serious. I also get a sports massage every few weeks as a preventative measure. I have done 2 marathons. Wouldn't be upset if I never do another - the last - an amazing experience in NY - took me 5 months to fully recover and fully get the marathon out of my legs to the point where shorter/faster intervals felt good again. I'll happily stick to 13.1 for time being.
Living in Bermuda the best recovery is the ocean. I finish most of my +15 mile runs with a dip in the ocean. Obviously thats easy for me, but you guys have local pools etc. I see JohnBoy was it? - off to Mexico - fantastic - don't worry about running, swim/float around in the ocean and use static bike (if near a gym) for the week. Don't try to make up missed mileage. Most folk I know do a 3 week taper - so your last 20/22 miler is 3 weeks ahead of race.
Thanks guys for the congratulations! I am still feeling the strain on my quads but have managed to book in a sports massage tomorrow evening which I imagine will be painful! I am starting up football again as of next Tuesday so hoping I have recovered somewhat by then! Feeling a slight low now that it's all over and done with.... need to book up a new event. If I get in to London I'm seriously considering running fancy dress next time for Demelza..
Also, @Bermuda_red ... Dipping into the ocean is not quite the same as our local leisure pool but thanks for making us all jealous!
Thanks guys for the congratulations! I am still feeling the strain on my quads but have managed to book in a sports massage tomorrow evening which I imagine will be painful! I am starting up football again as of next Tuesday so hoping I have recovered somewhat by then! Feeling a slight low now that it's all over and done with.... need to book up a new event. If I get in to London I'm seriously considering running fancy dress next time for Demelza..
Also, @Bermuda_red ... Dipping into the ocean is not quite the same as our local leisure pool but thanks for making us all jealous!
Doesn't matter - the cooler the better - the water pressure is also good for the muscles - plus the ability to move your legs gently without bearing weight - great recovery - 15-20 mins of kicking gently around. Believe me - when I jump in the ocean in January its freezing and I'm the only one in there. I would take Crook Log anytime in the winter (if it still exists!).
Should they all be done at less than marathon pace? Hmmm, beginning to think my idea of running everything at marathon pace in my build up was probably not the best idea.
I've been having a look at the running calculators on Runners World. From my Sidcup 10 race result of 1:25:36, the race predictor calculator tells me I'm capable of 3:57:36 in an ideal world.
Now plugging that race time into the training pace calculator, it gives me a pace of 10:06 min/mile for easy runs and 10:06-11:23 min/mile for the LSRs.
Now my desired marathon time was somewhere around 4:04-4:09, which gave me a window of 9:19-9:28 min/mile, which should be achievable.
I'm just struggling to grasp the concept of running slower in training will help me run quicker in the marathon.
So what does everyone else do? Do you run the entire LSR slower than marathon pace? Do you run say up to 15 miles at LSR pace and then the end at marathon pace?
Its too late to change the preparation for May but I'm going to follow this to the letter for my autumn marathon (whatever one I end up doing!)
(I really must get around to reading that Advanced Marathoning book I bought 6 months ago!)
JohnBoy, speed comes from more intensive sessions on athletics tracks where you can safely run at speed continuously without fear of running into people or traffic. But this type of training should be incorporated into the regular marathon training from the beginning. Then I go out to do tempo runs at desired marathon pace from 8 to 16 miles within the training period too. The long runs are all about building the stamina and getting your body to learn to use the fat as fuel before you have to dip into the good glycogen stores you will need to use later in a marathon. You should always do your long runs at an easier pace than you would on the day of the actual race.
Should they all be done at less than marathon pace?
Yes, yes, 100% yes (though throwing marathon pace sections in the middle is good). This is possibly the most important thing for distance running. If you find it hard to slow down then just head offroad where you won't care so much about pace
I am not sold on the long slow run. I think all it trains you to b is a long slow runner (slow is a relative term here).
I beleive you need. Significant amount of training at your desired race pace simply so your body an you understand how that pace feels. All my long runs include the middle 40% at race pace, with some having two blocks of 30%. Other runs include fartlek sessions and faster runs. My theory will be put to the test a week on Sunday.
Comments
I've given up hope of a decent time at the kent roadrunner marathon, for various reasons I've done no long runs and the norovirus has just taken another week's training from me so it'll just be a jog round and target a quick time later in the year
really looking forward to working the 20 mile water station at London on sunday week, I always enjoy it and missed it last year when I ran instead
Was going great guns to halfway, went through in 2:03, bang on my 9:20-9:30 window then as we turned into that bastard upward drag at 14, I got cramp in my left hamstring, had cramp in my right hamstring by 15 and despite trying to run, I literally didn't run another full mile in the rest of the marathon.
Had to stop for a toilet break between 16-17 miles and nearly passed out on the throne. If I'd been in Brighton without my family (my girlfriend had brought my 9yo daughter down to watch for the first time), then I would have walked off the course at that point, I was in pieces. Couldn't let them down though. Hobbled through the last half in 2:40, for 4:43.
Absolutely gutted in all honesty. All my training runs were a breeze with no issues and I get rewarded for 3 months sacrifice like that. I've been a right grumpy sod since being home. Everyone else in my running club ran to near PB and I ran 20 mins slower than mine. Grrrr.
In the 5 marathons I've run, I've never suffered like I am now afterwards. Can hardly move. I even had cramp in my bloody arms.
Oh well, on that note, how far away is the Kent Roadrunner? 6 weeks away or so? Is it even remotely possible for me to stay in shape for that now or not?! Probably not. Have got 10 days in Mexico in between and that may hinder more than a little. Just means I'll have to book a few more later in the year now!
Well done @heavenSE7, good time for your first marathon given your injuries!
nice job @GreenWithEnvy , a 25 minute pb is amazing
Get lots of extra protein and calcium...
Probably not chocolate.
PS I dare you to do a training 5 miles in mexico.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/11532941/Fun-runners-in-tears-after-being-sent-extra-3k-when-10k-race-marshall-took-a-toilet-break.html
The flipside will be that we have also all had great runs off the back of poor preparation.
Get back out there do some steady runs and don't dwell on it.
The fact that you finished is testament to your strength of character so focus on that and ignore the time and the other crap that happens during the race.
You have done the work for a PB so in 7 weeks you should be back ready to get it.
So what sort of runs should I be looking at over the next 6-7 weeks or so?
Do I need to build in a 2 week taper again?
I'm going to give myself the rest of this week off and then start running again next week, gradually building the mileage up again. What would you recommend?
Winter put me off as I was travelling a lot and most of the times there was ice on the ground everywhere I went. Managed to run 5k 3 weeks ago but nothing since then.
Where should I start if I want to go again? start at 3km and build up a km each time? I am never quite sure what distances I should be going and if walking during a run is a cardinal sin.
Don't be afraid to get out and run when the weathers cold, you'll see plenty of runners braving it because it doesn't affect us as much as we assume it will.
John - feel your pain, that must have been so frustrating. I've only done three marathons and they've all gone great (I fear not for this one though) - but if one went unexpectedly badly, before writing it off as 'one of those things' I'd be looking at the differences in my training, taper and nutrition to see if there are any lessons to be learnt. Did I do enough runs at marathon pace and faster, did I race a half in the build up, did I carbo-load the same way, did I hydrate well the day before, did I have enough salt, did I drink too much water on the day ...? If you've had cramp before, can you think of anything in common with then? If you take gels, perhaps you overdid them?
I got over my knee injury (you referred to earlier) in a fortnight thanls, but it messed up my training - 100 miles less in March than last year and very little quality running. However, on Sunday I went out for a 16 mile run and my calf seized up after 10 and I had to get a lift back home. Haven't run since as it is still sore and tight, confident it will clear in time to get to the start line, but I might end up as a dreaded DNF.
For another marathon in 6 weeks Pete Pfitzinger two very easy weeks (I certainly wouldn't run this week), two regular marathon training weeks then a two week taper.
Anyway it takes a long time for fitness from marathon training to drain away so you could always exploit it in some halves and 10ks in May/June. Good luck.
So inspiring! Some of you more serious runners should buy his book or at least research him for tips. Amazing stuff.
And again. Little bit further (and I really do mean a little bit) and a bit quicker. For a relatively slim 32 year old my fitness is appalling, did 1.2 miles today averaging 8:15 p/m. Hopefully il be upto 2 miles within a couple of weeks and will then set the next target
Living in Bermuda the best recovery is the ocean. I finish most of my +15 mile runs with a dip in the ocean. Obviously thats easy for me, but you guys have local pools etc. I see JohnBoy was it? - off to Mexico - fantastic - don't worry about running, swim/float around in the ocean and use static bike (if near a gym) for the week. Don't try to make up missed mileage. Most folk I know do a 3 week taper - so your last 20/22 miler is 3 weeks ahead of race.
Guys be careful - Lecture over.
I am starting up football again as of next Tuesday so hoping I have recovered somewhat by then!
Feeling a slight low now that it's all over and done with.... need to book up a new event. If I get in to London I'm seriously considering running fancy dress next time for Demelza..
Also, @Bermuda_red ... Dipping into the ocean is not quite the same as our local leisure pool but thanks for making us all jealous!
Should they all be done at less than marathon pace?
Hmmm, beginning to think my idea of running everything at marathon pace in my build up was probably not the best idea.
I've been having a look at the running calculators on Runners World.
From my Sidcup 10 race result of 1:25:36, the race predictor calculator tells me I'm capable of 3:57:36 in an ideal world.
Now plugging that race time into the training pace calculator, it gives me a pace of 10:06 min/mile for easy runs and 10:06-11:23 min/mile for the LSRs.
Now my desired marathon time was somewhere around 4:04-4:09, which gave me a window of 9:19-9:28 min/mile, which should be achievable.
I'm just struggling to grasp the concept of running slower in training will help me run quicker in the marathon.
So what does everyone else do? Do you run the entire LSR slower than marathon pace? Do you run say up to 15 miles at LSR pace and then the end at marathon pace?
Its too late to change the preparation for May but I'm going to follow this to the letter for my autumn marathon (whatever one I end up doing!)
(I really must get around to reading that Advanced Marathoning book I bought 6 months ago!)
I beleive you need. Significant amount of training at your desired race pace simply so your body an you understand how that pace feels. All my long runs include the middle 40% at race pace, with some having two blocks of 30%. Other runs include fartlek sessions and faster runs. My theory will be put to the test a week on Sunday.