The distance between our worlds would mean the length of any journey would take too much time, tracelling at the speed of light - which is the fastest speed you can go. And even if it were feasable, there would be not good reason for doing it!
Feasibly though, these beings could live for many thousands of years. That's not to say we've had visits (especially when you consider light speed), but only thinking inside the box is a tad naive. For example, I had an argument with a teacher once about the possibility of non-carbon based life forms. I think there is life out there but we'll probably never know for sure. If you think of a football pitch, we've not even explored one grass blade's worth. I've also wondered if there are other colours out there but given our spectrum it's impossible to imagine them.
Back on topic, I'm sceptical. I also believe that people have experienced things but I'm a materialist so don't believe there's a God, spirit, ghosts, etc. Likewise with UFO sightings there is usually a reasonable explanation. The human mind doesn't always behave as it should do.
But if you lived for say a thousand years - would you want to plan a say 500 year trip to earth? To be able to do so technically would suggest you have the intelligence not to bother! And there is the great possibility we will have blown ourselves up by the time you get here!
My grandad left Costal Command in 44 on medical grounds and came back south with my nan (whom he'd met and married whilst station at Prestwick) and became the grounds man to Middlesex Hospital sports ground on Perry St in Chislehurst. This sat on the site of the old Scadbury Manor, which had burnt down, although only one corner of the new building overlapped the old site. As kids it was brilliant growing up with access to cricket nets, hard and grass court tennis courts, rugby and football posts, 25 acres of fields, 40 acres of woods, old school communal baths which my gdad would fill up for us to mess around in. But best thing was he loved big dogs so we always had German Shepard's and my favourite Misty the Weimaraner to run around with and take for long rambles through the woods. In the summer we could be out for most of the day. Misty and I were inseparable and totally trusted each other. She was in essence my dog. My nan, who always claimed to have a connection to the paranormal, would ask us not to go into the changing rooms which overlapped the old property cos she "didna like the feeling youse get there". Being kids we'd sneak in but I must admit it felt cold, despite being south facing, and we'd soon be running out. Spooked no doubt by my nan's reaction. However we would never ever get any of the dogs to follow us in. They'd just stand at this unseen boundary. Both German Shepard's and the Weimaraner would stand in the same place barking at us despite none living at the same time. One day I picked Misty up and carried her in. Instantly her hackles went up, she was soppy as hell and I'd never seen her react this way and never did again. She then started growling, bared her teeth and appear to be backing something into the corner whilst looking up at head height and then looking back at me. There was nothing there. I got the feeling she was protecting me. I called her and we both got out of there as quick as we could and in the following few years until she died she would either skulk quietly past the door into that area of the changing rooms with her tail down or sometimes the hackles would be up again with her looking nervously between me and the door way until we were a couple of yards past it.
My grandad left Costal Command in 44 on medical grounds and came back south with my nan (whom he'd met and married whilst station at Prestwick) and became the grounds man to Middlesex Hospital sports ground on Perry St in Chislehurst. This sat on the site of the old Scadbury Manor, which had burnt down, although only one corner of the new building overlapped the old site. As kids it was brilliant growing up with access to cricket nets, hard and grass court tennis courts, rugby and football posts, 25 acres of fields, 40 acres of woods, old school communal baths which my gdad would fill up for us to mess around in. But best thing was he loved big dogs so we always had German Shepard's and my favourite Misty the Weimaraner to run around with and take for long rambles through the woods. In the summer we could be out for most of the day. Misty and I were inseparable and totally trusted each other. She was in essence my dog. My nan, who always claimed to have a connection to the paranormal, would ask us not to go into the changing rooms which overlapped the old property cos she "didna like the feeling youse get there". Being kids we'd sneak in but I must admit it felt cold, despite being south facing, and we'd soon be running out. Spooked no doubt by my nan's reaction. However we would never ever get any of the dogs to follow us in. They'd just stand at this unseen boundary. Both German Shepard's and the Weimaraner would stand in the same place barking at us despite none living at the same time. One day I picked Misty up and carried her in. Instantly her hackles went up, she was soppy as hell and I'd never seen her react this way and never did again. She then started growling, bared her teeth and appear to be backing something into the corner whilst looking up at head height and then looking back at me. There was nothing there. I got the feeling she was protecting me. I called her and we both got out of there as quick as we could and in the following few years until she died she would either skulk quietly past the door into that area of the changing rooms with her tail down or sometimes the hackles would be up again with her looking nervously between me and the door way until we were a couple of yards past it.
I'm a believer that the animal thing (and possibly ours too) is infrasound. Big natural problems like the tsunami and volcanos make noises at levels we can't hear but they can, and they run away. Stands to reason that evolutionary instinct means if something in an old building, say, is resonating at a similar level then it will freak the animal out.
How could you explain sonething that two people see at the same time, me and my old man were sitting in the living room watching the telly and we both watched an old vase that my mum was given by some old girl litetally swivel to the edge of the sideboard, fall out and roll over in what seemed like slow motion He shouted to my mum to come abd pick it up and throw it out coz he was too scared to touch it!
Tel that mustve been insane I think I wouldve proper shit myself
I am glad though that others are certain to that unexplained things have happened to them
Especially people who I respect and trust it is a fascinating subject
Yeah I was cacking myself mate but I had nowhere to go......I hadnt passed my driving test, no buses that late and the only place to go was my girlfriends and that was a two hour walk and her old man would have gone bananas at that time of the morning...... a woman and her baby were murdered in the flats opposite not that long afterwards, but that doesnt explain the odd happenings at Edington Road.
I never believed any of this, but after an incident at work that I'd rather not discuss, I ended up having to take some time off. Probably due to my own behaviour i had issues with my professional life and in my relationship. Getting back into work I had to counsel a boy who was suffering a number of problems. After seeing him a few times he claimed that he was regularly visited by ghosts. At first I laughed it off and tried to get to the root of why he was having such difficulties, but he was insistent. Time and again the lad helped people with information that nobody could know. As my relationship faded further and further I spent more and more time with the boy and experienced more disturbing events. Eventually I realised that I was dead myself and I'm typing this with ghostlie digits.
Have you ever thought of writing about this? It could make a great screenplay, and I already have my ouja board and planchette set up to scribe it for you. Knock three times if interested.:)
My grandad left Costal Command in 44 on medical grounds and came back south with my nan (whom he'd met and married whilst station at Prestwick) and became the grounds man to Middlesex Hospital sports ground on Perry St in Chislehurst. This sat on the site of the old Scadbury Manor, which had burnt down, although only one corner of the new building overlapped the old site. As kids it was brilliant growing up with access to cricket nets, hard and grass court tennis courts, rugby and football posts, 25 acres of fields, 40 acres of woods, old school communal baths which my gdad would fill up for us to mess around in. But best thing was he loved big dogs so we always had German Shepard's and my favourite Misty the Weimaraner to run around with and take for long rambles through the woods. In the summer we could be out for most of the day. Misty and I were inseparable and totally trusted each other. She was in essence my dog. My nan, who always claimed to have a connection to the paranormal, would ask us not to go into the changing rooms which overlapped the old property cos she "didna like the feeling youse get there". Being kids we'd sneak in but I must admit it felt cold, despite being south facing, and we'd soon be running out. Spooked no doubt by my nan's reaction. However we would never ever get any of the dogs to follow us in. They'd just stand at this unseen boundary. Both German Shepard's and the Weimaraner would stand in the same place barking at us despite none living at the same time. One day I picked Misty up and carried her in. Instantly her hackles went up, she was soppy as hell and I'd never seen her react this way and never did again. She then started growling, bared her teeth and appear to be backing something into the corner whilst looking up at head height and then looking back at me. There was nothing there. I got the feeling she was protecting me. I called her and we both got out of there as quick as we could and in the following few years until she died she would either skulk quietly past the door into that area of the changing rooms with her tail down or sometimes the hackles would be up again with her looking nervously between me and the door way until we were a couple of yards past it.
I'm a believer that the animal thing (and possibly ours too) is infrasound. Big natural problems like the tsunami and volcanos make noises at levels we can't hear but they can, and they run away. Stands to reason that evolutionary instinct means if something in an old building, say, is resonating at a similar level then it will freak the animal out.
I think this is the accepted explanation. I hear magnetism can have a similar effect on our brains, sudden feeling of dread, feeling sick etc. it often has something to do with the structure of the building rather than dead people.
In terms of aliens, when you travel at/near the speed of light your own perception of time is different. So, say 40 light years would only take a few years (not an approximate estimation but to give the idea) from your perspective.
Also, we're very much babies in the universe, there is most likely aliens that have evolved/advanced way beyond anything we can comprehend. They might not know of us much in the same way you don't know of the anthill in your neighbours garden.
I went to see derek acorra last night and I don't know what to make of what happened tbh
I went there with an open mind but was very aprehensive and spent the hour before watching the dynamics of the auidence
Watching for people doing the room speaking to others
I saw no one doing it
He got things right but some people Gave away info freeley when he spoke to them and it would be easy for him to manipulate that others were more guarded and gave little away but were moved in one case to tears with what he said,
too me it left me with more questions than answers,
and that may be they use face book or other personal info on tickets that are purchased online, I don't use online banking or book things online so maybe that's why I was not given any info last night, or maybe it was just not my turn
one thing is for sure if mediums are tricking these people then they are scum of the highest order, a young woman who had lost a child before he made it to the " living world" but was very close to birth was discussed he went straight to this lady, he got her mothers name and fathers and 2 of her relatives, described her house he life and got so much right including the name she had chosen for this child,
this was obviously very moving and emotional, for her and the 2 family members they arrived with, and as such they were openly crying in front of a theatre full of people, the person who got this message couldn't have acted to be so visibly upset, unless they were Oscar standard trained, but maybe within their cyber life and what is placed in platforms they may be able to be targeted for such terrible tricks to be played
because of this incident I didn't enjoy the night as fun or entertainment but I did leave now more inquisitive than I did when I arrived
Of course they are tricking people - Derren Brown does it but is open about it being trickery.
I would say that most people who go to see a medium - would be more likely to be impressed by one. You must be slightly open to it to go in first place.
Mediums use both cold readings (guessing) and hot readings (knowing stuff beforehand), and a lot of experience and intuition. I'm sure some of them genuinely believe they are getting messages from the grave, but most are just end-of-pier frauds
There's a book that I reccommend very highly: 'Will Storr vs the Supernatural' in which he investigates by meeting lots of people and going to places associated with the supernatural. He approaches it from a skeptical point of view and finds some utter fraudsters (unfortunately, NLA, including the laughable Acora, who he catches bullshitting the cameras during an episode of 'Most Haunted'). I don't want to spoil it, but lets just say that he has some interesting and, to my mind, frankly bloody terrifying experiences along the way.
I'm a scientist and know that 99% of all this stuff (mostly involving people making money from it) is clearly bullshit. However, there are some things that cannot be explained and I myself, as well as many people I know (and quite a few people on here by the sounds of things), have had some very strange experiences. Science is about pushing the boundaries of knowledge and there is still an awful lot that we don't know or understand about the universe and I would never be so arrogant as to assume that we have all the answers because we are not even close. That's why I'm an agnostic and not an atheist.
I've read the Will Storr book too, and thought it was a good read. Debunked quite a lot of stuff quite fairly and reasonably but left the door a little ajar as to alternative explanations for some other peculiar experiences. Anyway life is generally pretty weird I think, even if we can now explain a lot about how our world and universe works, and the more we find out, the more we seem to discover a next puzzle. I mean years ago, science deemed it highly unlikely that we would ever see Charlton progress past Round 4 of the FA Cup, and here we are :-)
I believe that everyone, everything and every place leaves a recording an echo in some fabric yet undiscovered by science. Locations can hold onto such and with the right combination of circumstances, geographic, magnetic, atmospheric, biological or whatever, we may not even know of it yet, this record can be replayed. People who collectively witness what they feel is a ghostly experience are just tuned into that for a short period of time. Our brains, which we know so little about may over the course of evolution have predetermined a response to such occurrences as mythical, spiritual and not of normal time.
What about de ja vues My eldest has them quite often and has trained herself to do something totally random like singing a song to get her out of this. I've had it a few times but mostly when I was young is this a trick of the mind or can we really see the future?
My mum died when I was in my mid 20's and my birthday was about 3 weeks later.I was in bed on my birthday morning, felt the covers be pulled back slightly,heard my mum say happy birthday and then felt a kiss on the back of my neck. It was two minutes before my alarm went off so I thought I was dreaming! I touched both sides of my neck and it was old where the kiss was and warm the other side!!
A lot of strange things have happened to my dad since. We convinced him
Thats a really nice thing to happen TRH, second one was slightly creepy but in a nice way.
Also to those saying we're talking crap and making it up or whatever, I agree with David Mitchell on spiritual stuff.
I kind of agree with David Mitchell (he usually does speak sense imo), that if people want to believe it as it gives them some kind of comfort then that's okay. The same goes for religion and the belief in a higher presence. I'm not unattracted to the idea myself, one of my favourite songs is Last Stop This Town by Eels which about coming back after you die, just for one last visit so you can say goodbye and I'd like it played at my funeral. I'm a rationalist at heart though, albeit a sentimental one, and that part of me just can't help but think it's all bollocks.
Even then then, as DM says, on a personal level these beliefs are essentially harmless and if it helps you get through this ordeal we call life then knock yourself out, I say. The problem lies with the people who use it to take advantage of people, whether that be the Derek Akoras (sp?) of this world or the various politicized parts of organized religions, but it could be said that football fans are often taken advantage of too so the fact there are shysters out there looking for a weakness to exploit isn't a reason alone to try and stop people believing something.
I agree with him in so far as people shouldn't be judged for what they believe in. It is up to them. But if you believe in God - who is taking that away from you - if somebody is arguing that there isn't a God. The way I look at it, we know a lot more than we knew 100 years ago, and even more than we knew 500 years ago. It is human nature to process what we know and find an explanation for what we don't know. When done positively, this is through scientific explanation, but if we can't do that, it is usual to make something up that explains it. So some of the gaps 100 years ago, are no longer have to be filled with an invention.
But I am agnostic, rather than athiest when it comes to religeon, in the sense that I accept that I can't prove or know that there isn't a God, even though I don't think there is. I do know there aren't ghosts though, the same as there aren't vampires or werewolfs.
Keep meaning to give that a go, Greenie, let me know if it's any good! Would need to go before tge clocks go forward I reckon or it wouldn't be the same.
The problem I see with all of this isn't people choosing to believe in stuff like this - it's when people start trying to 'prove' it 'scientifically'. You simply can't do that - because science has already 'proven' that it doean't exist.
It's like all the creationist idiots in the US who think they have to 'prove' that the Earth was created in seven days, and that all the dinosaurs are fake or were walking around 10000 years ago or whatever. If people want to believe that, then let them. Just because your beliefs don't fit the evidence, you can't just warp them to suit your theories.
Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. Not everyone is entitled to their own facts.
I don't believe. I think there's always a scientific explanation for all of these phenomena. I don't like people who prey on the vulnerable or selfishly inflict their beliefs on others, but I have no issue with people believing. After all, there's a possibility that I'm wrong and I respect everyone else's right to believe in what they want. It's their life.
I don't know why everyone doesn't do that. You're not hurting anyone and neither am I.
The problem I see with all of this isn't people choosing to believe in stuff like this - it's when people start trying to 'prove' it 'scientifically'. You simply can't do that - because science has already 'proven' that it doean't exist.
It's like all the creationist idiots in the US who think they have to 'prove' that the Earth was created in seven days, and that all the dinosaurs are fake or were walking around 10000 years ago or whatever. If people want to believe that, then let them. Just because your beliefs don't fit the evidence, you can't just warp them to suit your theories.
Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. Not everyone is entitled to their own facts.
There's very little we know about the universe and how it fundamentally works. Let's use dark matter as an example, it should exist due to the science and maths behind it but scientists have spent a lot of time and money finally getting the facts to fit the hypothesis.
I'm sure there's scientific explanations for all ghost sightings. But to poo poo any evidence in a field hideously underfunded is quite naive. There's clearly a lot of things we can't explain but with some time and research we can begin to explain and myth bust.
Used to think mediums were all con artists until I accompanied my mum to a spiritualist church in boon street, lee. Tbh at the time, the things they said/knew shit the life out of me. More than one has told me I have a "gift", but the only time I think I can relate to this was when I told my mum I had a vision of a air disaster over a body of water. Within 2 hours the space shuttle challenger blew up and fell into the sea.
I don't believe myself, I just think that given the number of organisms (if we assume that the spirits of animals can live on after they've died) which have ever lived then the world would be over run with ghosts and there would be far more real evidence. However in reality, in all of human existence there is very little concrete evidence of something which should be very commonplace if it existed. I also think its more than coincidental that the majority of ghost sightings seem to take place at night when people are on their own or the only one awake.
Despite my beliefs I find the subject interesting and have enjoyed reading through this thread.
Comments
Back on topic, I'm sceptical. I also believe that people have experienced things but I'm a materialist so don't believe there's a God, spirit, ghosts, etc. Likewise with UFO sightings there is usually a reasonable explanation. The human mind doesn't always behave as it should do.
This sat on the site of the old Scadbury Manor, which had burnt down, although only one corner of the new building overlapped the old site.
As kids it was brilliant growing up with access to cricket nets, hard and grass court tennis courts, rugby and football posts, 25 acres of fields, 40 acres of woods, old school communal baths which my gdad would fill up for us to mess around in. But best thing was he loved big dogs so we always had German Shepard's and my favourite Misty the Weimaraner to run around with and take for long rambles through the woods. In the summer we could be out for most of the day. Misty and I were inseparable and totally trusted each other. She was in essence my dog.
My nan, who always claimed to have a connection to the paranormal, would ask us not to go into the changing rooms which overlapped the old property cos she "didna like the feeling youse get there". Being kids we'd sneak in but I must admit it felt cold, despite being south facing, and we'd soon be running out. Spooked no doubt by my nan's reaction.
However we would never ever get any of the dogs to follow us in. They'd just stand at this unseen boundary. Both German Shepard's and the Weimaraner would stand in the same place barking at us despite none living at the same time.
One day I picked Misty up and carried her in. Instantly her hackles went up, she was soppy as hell and I'd never seen her react this way and never did again. She then started growling, bared her teeth and appear to be backing something into the corner whilst looking up at head height and then looking back at me. There was nothing there. I got the feeling she was protecting me.
I called her and we both got out of there as quick as we could and in the following few years until she died she would either skulk quietly past the door into that area of the changing rooms with her tail down or sometimes the hackles would be up again with her looking nervously between me and the door way until we were a couple of yards past it.
He shouted to my mum to come abd pick it up and throw it out coz he was too scared to touch it!
Have you ever thought of writing about this? It could make a great screenplay, and I already have my ouja board and planchette set up to scribe it for you. Knock three times if interested.:)
In terms of aliens, when you travel at/near the speed of light your own perception of time is different. So, say 40 light years would only take a few years (not an approximate estimation but to give the idea) from your perspective.
Also, we're very much babies in the universe, there is most likely aliens that have evolved/advanced way beyond anything we can comprehend. They might not know of us much in the same way you don't know of the anthill in your neighbours garden.
I went there with an open mind but was very aprehensive and spent the hour before watching the dynamics of the auidence
Watching for people doing the room speaking to others
I saw no one doing it
He got things right but some people Gave away info freeley when he spoke to them and it would be easy for him to manipulate that others were more guarded and gave little away but were moved in one case to tears with what he said,
too me it left me with more questions than answers,
and that may be they use face book or other personal info on tickets that are purchased online, I don't use online banking or book things online so maybe that's why I was not given any info last night, or maybe it was just not my turn
one thing is for sure if mediums are tricking these people then they are scum of the highest order, a young woman who had lost a child before he made it to the " living world" but was very close to birth was discussed he went straight to this lady, he got her mothers name and fathers and 2 of her relatives, described her house he life and got so much right including the name she had chosen for this child,
this was obviously very moving and emotional, for her and the 2 family members they arrived with, and as such they were openly crying in front of a theatre full of people, the person who got this message couldn't have acted to be so visibly upset, unless they were Oscar standard trained, but maybe within their cyber life and what is placed in platforms they may be able to be targeted for such terrible tricks to be played
because of this incident I didn't enjoy the night as fun or entertainment but I did leave now more inquisitive than I did when I arrived
I would say that most people who go to see a medium - would be more likely to be impressed by one. You must be slightly open to it to go in first place.
I'm a scientist and know that 99% of all this stuff (mostly involving people making money from it) is clearly bullshit. However, there are some things that cannot be explained and I myself, as well as many people I know (and quite a few people on here by the sounds of things), have had some very strange experiences. Science is about pushing the boundaries of knowledge and there is still an awful lot that we don't know or understand about the universe and I would never be so arrogant as to assume that we have all the answers because we are not even close. That's why I'm an agnostic and not an atheist.
Anyway life is generally pretty weird I think, even if we can now explain a lot about how our world and universe works, and the more we find out, the more we seem to discover a next puzzle.
I mean years ago, science deemed it highly unlikely that we would ever see Charlton progress past Round 4 of the FA Cup, and here we are :-)
So back to a WouldYa...
My eldest has them quite often and has trained herself to do something totally random like singing a song to get her out of this.
I've had it a few times but mostly when I was young is this a trick of the mind or can we really see the future?
Even then then, as DM says, on a personal level these beliefs are essentially harmless and if it helps you get through this ordeal we call life then knock yourself out, I say. The problem lies with the people who use it to take advantage of people, whether that be the Derek Akoras (sp?) of this world or the various politicized parts of organized religions, but it could be said that football fans are often taken advantage of too so the fact there are shysters out there looking for a weakness to exploit isn't a reason alone to try and stop people believing something.
But I am agnostic, rather than athiest when it comes to religeon, in the sense that I accept that I can't prove or know that there isn't a God, even though I don't think there is. I do know there aren't ghosts though, the same as there aren't vampires or werewolfs.
However I'm doing the Canterbury ghost walks tonight so may change my mind!
It's like all the creationist idiots in the US who think they have to 'prove' that the Earth was created in seven days, and that all the dinosaurs are fake or were walking around 10000 years ago or whatever. If people want to believe that, then let them. Just because your beliefs don't fit the evidence, you can't just warp them to suit your theories.
Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. Not everyone is entitled to their own facts.
I think there's always a scientific explanation for all of these phenomena.
I don't like people who prey on the vulnerable or selfishly inflict their beliefs on others, but I have no issue with people believing. After all, there's a possibility that I'm wrong and I respect everyone else's right to believe in what they want. It's their life.
I don't know why everyone doesn't do that. You're not hurting anyone and neither am I.
I'm sure there's scientific explanations for all ghost sightings. But to poo poo any evidence in a field hideously underfunded is quite naive. There's clearly a lot of things we can't explain but with some time and research we can begin to explain and myth bust.
Tbh at the time, the things they said/knew shit the life out of me.
More than one has told me I have a "gift", but the only time I think I can relate to this was when I told my mum I had a vision of a air disaster over a body of water. Within 2 hours the space shuttle challenger blew up and fell into the sea.
Despite my beliefs I find the subject interesting and have enjoyed reading through this thread.