You know nothing Jon Targaryen doesn't quite have the same ring to it, I hope you're right though.
He's certainly not fireproof like Danaerys (shown in the episode when he saved Maester Aemon from the body that turned into a wight and he burned his hand) but this just means he's not the Father of dragons.
Yeah I reckon that's because he's not a Targareyan born of pure blood (incest)
There is a big old clue in the book where his wounds are described as smoking. Now that could be attributed to the warm blood leaking out of him but that would surely be 'steaming' as opposed to 'smoking'
Lots of other theories are explained on that YouTube channel as well if you're really into your GOT/ASOIAF.
It's certain they'll bring him back, no way HBO would've sanctioned the shit tonne of vfx budget on the episode Hardhome if Jon snow vs the night King will be a major element of the story later on. I'm just interested in how they'll do it more than anything. I'd be disappointed if it's just a pure "melisandra waves her hands and he comes back". There's got to be something dark and not quite right, maybe Jon sees ygritte and "the cave" in whatever their version of the after life is and wants to go back there, but is torn between saving the living and rejoining the dead.
I'm sure I've probably said this before but anyway - Not only did they set-up the possibility of resurrection, they did so as followers of the same god as Melisandre. They told Melisandre how they did it. And there has been no narrative purpose for that scene whatsoever - Beric and Thoros haven't been in the show since and Melisandre didn't use her new knowledge.
(Also, regarding John seeing Ygritte - when Melidandre asked Beric what death was like, he said it was blackness/ nothing.)
From a story perspective, Melisandre has no current narrative drive. Her role was entwined with Stannis's, and now he's dead, she should be dead too (like his wife/ child). But they kept her in the story, and of all places, sent her to the wall.
My guess is, Melisandre has lost faith, will need convincing to, and will eventually say the words Thoros said to Beric, and raise Jon Snow from the dead. Like Beric, he will be scarred, and will possibly lose some of his memory and be somewhat tainted by the experience, but will largely be himself!
Lots of other theories are explained on that YouTube channel as well if you're really into your GOT/ASOIAF.
It's certain they'll bring him back, no way HBO would've sanctioned the shit tonne of vfx budget on the episode Hardhome if Jon snow vs the night King will be a major element of the story later on. I'm just interested in how they'll do it more than anything. I'd be disappointed if it's just a pure "melisandra waves her hands and he comes back". There's got to be something dark and not quite right, maybe Jon sees ygritte and "the cave" in whatever their version of the after life is and wants to go back there, but is torn between saving the living and rejoining the dead.
I'm sure I've probably said this before but anyway - Not only did they set-up the possibility of resurrection, they did so as followers of the same god as Melisandre. They told Melisandre how they did it. And there has been no narrative purpose for that scene whatsoever - Beric and Thoros haven't been in the show since and Melisandre didn't use her new knowledge.
(Also, regarding John seeing Ygritte - when Melidandre asked Beric what death was like, he said it was blackness/ nothing.)
From a story perspective, Melisandre has no ahcurrent narrative drive. Her role was entwined with Stannis's, and now he's dead, she should be dead too (like his wife/ child). But they kept her in the story, and of all places, sent her to the wall.
My guess is, Melisandre has lost faith, will need convincing to, and will eventually say the words Thoros said to Beric, and raise Jon Snow from the dead. Like Beric, he will be scarred, and will possibly lose some of his memory and be somewhat tainted by the experience, but will largely be himself!
Yeah, does Melisandre even meet Thoros in the books? Seemed like a big departure at the time to set this up. Ressurection has popped up bit more in the text as well, making it more 'acceptable'. Also magic in this world is something that no one understands, even those who use it. I think most of her power has been based around sex. Shadowbaby/burning leeches filled Gendry's knob blood. She almost came accross a bit like a succabus at one stage when Stannis tried to shag her.
Overall, i think this might be one of the changes for this series. The book sets up warging as a possible escape. Doesn't six skins live in an eagle at one stage? From the promo I've seen Ghost was guarding the body.
I think the two things I am most excited about are the tower of joy (hopefully an answer after 15 years!) and the Iron Islanders. Hope we get the damphir.
Lots of other theories are explained on that YouTube channel as well if you're really into your GOT/ASOIAF.
It's certain they'll bring him back, no way HBO would've sanctioned the shit tonne of vfx budget on the episode Hardhome if Jon snow vs the night King will be a major element of the story later on. I'm just interested in how they'll do it more than anything. I'd be disappointed if it's just a pure "melisandra waves her hands and he comes back". There's got to be something dark and not quite right, maybe Jon sees ygritte and "the cave" in whatever their version of the after life is and wants to go back there, but is torn between saving the living and rejoining the dead.
I'm sure I've probably said this before but anyway - Not only did they set-up the possibility of resurrection, they did so as followers of the same god as Melisandre. They told Melisandre how they did it. And there has been no narrative purpose for that scene whatsoever - Beric and Thoros haven't been in the show since and Melisandre didn't use her new knowledge.
(Also, regarding John seeing Ygritte - when Melidandre asked Beric what death was like, he said it was blackness/ nothing.)
From a story perspective, Melisandre has no ahcurrent narrative drive. Her role was entwined with Stannis's, and now he's dead, she should be dead too (like his wife/ child). But they kept her in the story, and of all places, sent her to the wall.
My guess is, Melisandre has lost faith, will need convincing to, and will eventually say the words Thoros said to Beric, and raise Jon Snow from the dead. Like Beric, he will be scarred, and will possibly lose some of his memory and be somewhat tainted by the experience, but will largely be himself!
Yeah, does Melisandre even meet Thoros in the books? Seemed like a big departure at the time to set this up. Ressurection has popped up bit more in the text as well, making it more 'acceptable'. Also magic in this world is something that no one understands, even those who use it. I think most of her power has been based around sex. Shadowbaby/burning leeches filled Gendry's knob blood. She almost came accross a bit like a succabus at one stage when Stannis tried to shag her.
Overall, i think this might be one of the changes for this series. The book sets up warging as a possible escape. Doesn't six skins live in an eagle at one stage? From the promo I've seen Ghost was guarding the body.
I think the two things I am most excited about are the tower of joy (hopefully an answer after 15 years!) and the Iron Islanders. Hope we get the damphir.
From the books the Warging seemed the most likely thing for Jon to do, but then they've diverged so much now I've no idea what they're up to. They kill off characters on the TV just because they need a death to keep things on the go.
Lots of other theories are explained on that YouTube channel as well if you're really into your GOT/ASOIAF.
It's certain they'll bring him back, no way HBO would've sanctioned the shit tonne of vfx budget on the episode Hardhome if Jon snow vs the night King will be a major element of the story later on. I'm just interested in how they'll do it more than anything. I'd be disappointed if it's just a pure "melisandra waves her hands and he comes back". There's got to be something dark and not quite right, maybe Jon sees ygritte and "the cave" in whatever their version of the after life is and wants to go back there, but is torn between saving the living and rejoining the dead.
that was all about showing that the Valerian steel was able to cut through the wights...
I genuinely sadly believe Jon Snow could be proper dead, despite the screen shot... just how much would that fuck off/shock everyone.
A massive waste of a lot of money to show valerian steel can kill the White walkers. Could've done it later on or some other fashion.
Kit Harington has recently said he spent 3 months filming being a corpse.. You then got to realise 2 hr long feature films take around 2 months at the production stage and tv schedules are a lot more gruelling than film. So Jon snow is definitely coming back or he's in every other shot as a dead body.
I do strongly believe he'll be killed off again soon. No way GRRM or the two show runners will allow this kind of "good" thing to happen.
Really excited about tower of joy and will probably be used to show Jon has a shit tonne of kings blood and the power to come back.
I'm a believer in the theory that he is the son of Neds sister Lianna and Rhaegar Targareyan and not Neds bastard. He is in need of some divine Melisandre intervention clearly and if you think back to him talking to Maester Aaemon and how he told him to kill the boy. I reckon he'll be back as Jon Targareyan neckbeard loves killing people but they need to have a head cut off to be properly dead it seems.
There's also that scene when maestor aemon says "it's lonely being the only targaryen left" Jon snow then walks in to the room and it cuts to him. Considering R+L=J is a long running fan theory and the two showrunners were allowed the rights to adapt the books was because of the answer the gave to GRRM's question "who do you think is Jon snow's mother?" I see it as foreshadowing and a nod to that.
Lots of other theories are explained on that YouTube channel as well if you're really into your GOT/ASOIAF.
It's certain they'll bring him back, no way HBO would've sanctioned the shit tonne of vfx budget on the episode Hardhome if Jon snow vs the night King will be a major element of the story later on. I'm just interested in how they'll do it more than anything. I'd be disappointed if it's just a pure "melisandra waves her hands and he comes back". There's got to be something dark and not quite right, maybe Jon sees ygritte and "the cave" in whatever their version of the after life is and wants to go back there, but is torn between saving the living and rejoining the dead.
I'm sure I've probably said this before but anyway - Not only did they set-up the possibility of resurrection, they did so as followers of the same god as Melisandre. They told Melisandre how they did it. And there has been no narrative purpose for that scene whatsoever - Beric and Thoros haven't been in the show since and Melisandre didn't use her new knowledge.
(Also, regarding John seeing Ygritte - when Melidandre asked Beric what death was like, he said it was blackness/ nothing.)
From a story perspective, Melisandre has no ahcurrent narrative drive. Her role was entwined with Stannis's, and now he's dead, she should be dead too (like his wife/ child). But they kept her in the story, and of all places, sent her to the wall.
My guess is, Melisandre has lost faith, will need convincing to, and will eventually say the words Thoros said to Beric, and raise Jon Snow from the dead. Like Beric, he will be scarred, and will possibly lose some of his memory and be somewhat tainted by the experience, but will largely be himself!
Yeah, does Melisandre even meet Thoros in the books? Seemed like a big departure at the time to set this up. Ressurection has popped up bit more in the text as well, making it more 'acceptable'. Also magic in this world is something that no one understands, even those who use it. I think most of her power has been based around sex. Shadowbaby/burning leeches filled Gendry's knob blood. She almost came accross a bit like a succabus at one stage when Stannis tried to shag her.
Overall, i think this might be one of the changes for this series. The book sets up warging as a possible escape. Doesn't six skins live in an eagle at one stage? From the promo I've seen Ghost was guarding the body.
I think the two things I am most excited about are the tower of joy (hopefully an answer after 15 years!) and the Iron Islanders. Hope we get the damphir.
From the books the Warging seemed the most likely thing for Jon to do, but then they've diverged so much now I've no idea what they're up to. They kill off characters on the TV just because they need a death to keep things on the go.
They have stated that the book and show might diverge, this seems logical. They haven't set Jon up as a warger in the show so I can't see that happening (it would be a bit too deus ex machina).
Also, re. KentAddick - I don't think they do things specifically to be mean in this show. I think the twist will be in what Jon is like when he wakes back up again. He won't be quite the same I'd wager.
There's no way he's just playing a dead body. They wouldn't need him, they could build a fake version to do that. it would be cheaper and easier.
The dead body line is just a thing he can say to keep people off his back. it's just a bit of a shame for the show that, in the way the world works, it would be impossible to keep something like this a completely closed secret between the finale and the premiere. If only because he said he hates having long hair, and he clearly hasn't cut it yet!
Not too sure George can kill Jon after Ned and Rob. It is too obvious for him and he likes to change it up.
One of the staples of fantasy is the bitter sweet ending. One of the things that prophesy and legend of azhor azir is the pain and sacrifice he had to endure. Something like he thrust his sword, Lightbringer, through the heart of his lover to temper it. As Jimmy85 has pointed out, Beric talked about the cost of being brought back. Plus the major prophesy Danny encountered at the wizard's tower was about the song of ice and fire. It mentioned a blue flower growing in a wall of ice. Not sure there at too many people left at the wall! Davos certainly isn't in the books.
Equally Rickon is the dark horse in this, not a mention in a long time. And his dire wolf showed characteristics of wildness and brutality. Can't believe George wouldn't have a major part to play as each of the Stark children seem to be playing an important role in their respective fields.
Long term it probably rules Jon out of the iron throne. Too similar to the Night King. A Stark who was in charge of the night's watch that tried to set himself up as King, later suspected to become undead. I think they will have to wrap up the iron throne story sooner than people think. At some point they have to unite against the undead.
There's also that scene when maestor aemon says "it's lonely being the only targaryen left" Jon snow then walks in to the room and it cuts to him. Considering R+L=J is a long running fan theory and the two showrunners were allowed the rights to adapt the books was because of the answer the gave to GRRM's question "who do you think is Jon snow's mother?" I see it as foreshadowing and a nod to that.
It would also be a sign that Maester Aemon knew more than he let on about Jon. Why else would he support him so heavily?
There's also that scene when maestor aemon says "it's lonely being the only targaryen left" Jon snow then walks in to the room and it cuts to him. Considering R+L=J is a long running fan theory and the two showrunners were allowed the rights to adapt the books was because of the answer the gave to GRRM's question "who do you think is Jon snow's mother?" I see it as foreshadowing and a nod to that.
It would also be a sign that Maester Aemon knew more than he let on about Jon. Why else would he support him so heavily?
In the books Rhaegar wrote to Maester Aemon frequently.
There's also that scene when maestor aemon says "it's lonely being the only targaryen left" Jon snow then walks in to the room and it cuts to him. Considering R+L=J is a long running fan theory and the two showrunners were allowed the rights to adapt the books was because of the answer the gave to GRRM's question "who do you think is Jon snow's mother?" I see it as foreshadowing and a nod to that.
It would also be a sign that Maester Aemon knew more than he let on about Jon. Why else would he support him so heavily?
There is, supposedly, only one person who knows the truth about Jon Snow, Howland Reed. The only living survivor of the Tower of Joy and father of the two children who led Bran north of the wall.
Aemon supported Jon because he could see past the bigotry of people like Alistair, who intially hated snow because he was a posh bastard (literally). Jon only ever acted for the watch even when seeming not to, Aemon in his wisdom recognised this as did Mormont.
There's also that scene when maestor aemon says "it's lonely being the only targaryen left" Jon snow then walks in to the room and it cuts to him. Considering R+L=J is a long running fan theory and the two showrunners were allowed the rights to adapt the books was because of the answer the gave to GRRM's question "who do you think is Jon snow's mother?" I see it as foreshadowing and a nod to that.
It would also be a sign that Maester Aemon knew more than he let on about Jon. Why else would he support him so heavily?
There is, supposedly, only one person who knows the truth about Jon Snow, Howland Reed. The only living survivor of the Tower of Joy and father of the two children who led Bran north of the wall.
Aemon supported Jon because he could see past the bigotry of people like Alistair, who intially hated snow because he was a posh bastard (literally). Jon only ever acted for the watch even when seeming not to, Aemon in his wisdom recognised this as did Mormont.
There's also a theory that Jon is a twin, his twin sister being Meera Reed, her being the same age as him and Twins increases the likelihood of complications in birth. It could be an added twist for long time fans who think they already know jons parents.
Not too sure George can kill Jon after Ned and Rob. It is too obvious for him and he likes to change it up.
One of the staples of fantasy is the bitter sweet ending. One of the things that prophesy and legend of azhor azir is the pain and sacrifice he had to endure. Something like he thrust his sword, Lightbringer, through the heart of his lover to temper it. As Jimmy85 has pointed out, Beric talked about the cost of being brought back. Plus the major prophesy Danny encountered at the wizard's tower was about the song of ice and fire. It mentioned a blue flower growing in a wall of ice. Not sure there at too many people left at the wall! Davos certainly isn't in the books.
Equally Rickon is the dark horse in this, not a mention in a long time. And his dire wolf showed characteristics of wildness and brutality. Can't believe George wouldn't have a major part to play as each of the Stark children seem to be playing an important role in their respective fields.
Long term it probably rules Jon out of the iron throne. Too similar to the Night King. A Stark who was in charge of the night's watch that tried to set himself up as King, later suspected to become undead. I think they will have to wrap up the iron throne story sooner than people think. At some point they have to unite against the undead.
I completely agree. I think Jon will come back but he will be different. In the books lady stoneheart, after being dead for a few days and resurrected has really affected her mental capacities. We could see a more brutal Jon snow, which for his enemies they could point at him being a wight, as Jon snow was more honourable. Or that some one else has inhabited jon's body because of witchcraft. I also think Jon will die for good this time at some point. I think that will be the bittersweet ending GRRM has always talked about.
@kentaddick I haven't heard that one, but i like it. It also solves the dragon has three heads problem. Saying that he has left open the possibility of Tyrion. I think you are right about there being an extra twist.
I think GRRM has been very clever in the clues he has left. If r+l=j is true, he must of been gutted when it gained traction.
There's also that scene when maestor aemon says "it's lonely being the only targaryen left" Jon snow then walks in to the room and it cuts to him. Considering R+L=J is a long running fan theory and the two showrunners were allowed the rights to adapt the books was because of the answer the gave to GRRM's question "who do you think is Jon snow's mother?" I see it as foreshadowing and a nod to that.
It would also be a sign that Maester Aemon knew more than he let on about Jon. Why else would he support him so heavily?
In the books Rhaegar wrote to Maester Aemon frequently.
@kentaddick I haven't heard that one, but i like it. It also solves the dragon has three heads problem. Saying that he has left open the possibility of Tyrion. I think you are right about there being an extra twist.
I think GRRM has been very clever in the clues he has left. If r+l=j is true, he must of been gutted when it gained traction.
I believe GRRM has said one of three heads doesn't have to be a targaryen... Which considering we only know for sure of one then it's safe to assume Jon is the other and the third will be Tyrion. I've never bought Tyrion being a targaryen to be honest.
Well, it's about a year now since spoilergate. So with an hour before it starts, I'd like to take this opportunity to say, if you're reading this comment without having seen the new episode you're asking for trouble...
Weird and sloppy episode to get back into the swing of it I thought.
They've totally f'ed up Dorne. Are there any Martells left??? Weird one, they seem determined to kill off all the decent characters down there and only leave the cardboard snakes.
Fans of Lady Mel are gonna be distraught as well. That, and have their bones go from 0 to 60 back to 0 in the space of a few seconds lol.
The dogs and the handlers was one plot hole I noticed myself. The other one being how the girls got onto the boat with Tristane if we last saw them left behind on the docks?? Whatever.
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A great character
He's certainly not fireproof like Danaerys (shown in the episode when he saved Maester Aemon from the body that turned into a wight and he burned his hand) but this just means he's not the Father of dragons.
There is a big old clue in the book where his wounds are described as smoking. Now that could be attributed to the warm blood leaking out of him but that would surely be 'steaming' as opposed to 'smoking'
(Also, regarding John seeing Ygritte - when Melidandre asked Beric what death was like, he said it was blackness/ nothing.)
From a story perspective, Melisandre has no current narrative drive. Her role was entwined with Stannis's, and now he's dead, she should be dead too (like his wife/ child). But they kept her in the story, and of all places, sent her to the wall.
My guess is, Melisandre has lost faith, will need convincing to, and will eventually say the words Thoros said to Beric, and raise Jon Snow from the dead. Like Beric, he will be scarred, and will possibly lose some of his memory and be somewhat tainted by the experience, but will largely be himself!
Overall, i think this might be one of the changes for this series. The book sets up warging as a possible escape. Doesn't six skins live in an eagle at one stage? From the promo I've seen Ghost was guarding the body.
I think the two things I am most excited about are the tower of joy (hopefully an answer after 15 years!) and the Iron Islanders. Hope we get the damphir.
Kit Harington has recently said he spent 3 months filming being a corpse.. You then got to realise 2 hr long feature films take around 2 months at the production stage and tv schedules are a lot more gruelling than film. So Jon snow is definitely coming back or he's in every other shot as a dead body.
I do strongly believe he'll be killed off again soon. No way GRRM or the two show runners will allow this kind of "good" thing to happen.
Really excited about tower of joy and will probably be used to show Jon has a shit tonne of kings blood and the power to come back.
Also, re. KentAddick - I don't think they do things specifically to be mean in this show. I think the twist will be in what Jon is like when he wakes back up again. He won't be quite the same I'd wager.
There's no way he's just playing a dead body. They wouldn't need him, they could build a fake version to do that. it would be cheaper and easier.
The dead body line is just a thing he can say to keep people off his back. it's just a bit of a shame for the show that, in the way the world works, it would be impossible to keep something like this a completely closed secret between the finale and the premiere. If only because he said he hates having long hair, and he clearly hasn't cut it yet!
One of the staples of fantasy is the bitter sweet ending. One of the things that prophesy and legend of azhor azir is the pain and sacrifice he had to endure. Something like he thrust his sword, Lightbringer, through the heart of his lover to temper it. As Jimmy85 has pointed out, Beric talked about the cost of being brought back. Plus the major prophesy Danny encountered at the wizard's tower was about the song of ice and fire. It mentioned a blue flower growing in a wall of ice. Not sure there at too many people left at the wall! Davos certainly isn't in the books.
Equally Rickon is the dark horse in this, not a mention in a long time. And his dire wolf showed characteristics of wildness and brutality. Can't believe George wouldn't have a major part to play as each of the Stark children seem to be playing an important role in their respective fields.
Long term it probably rules Jon out of the iron throne. Too similar to the Night King. A Stark who was in charge of the night's watch that tried to set himself up as King, later suspected to become undead. I think they will have to wrap up the iron throne story sooner than people think. At some point they have to unite against the undead.
Treat it like a plaster, deal with it quickly.
It would also be a sign that Maester Aemon knew more than he let on about Jon. Why else would he support him so heavily?
Aemon supported Jon because he could see past the bigotry of people like Alistair, who intially hated snow because he was a posh bastard (literally). Jon only ever acted for the watch even when seeming not to, Aemon in his wisdom recognised this as did Mormont.
I think GRRM has been very clever in the clues he has left. If r+l=j is true, he must of been gutted when it gained traction.
The end of that episode is the most horrific thing in the whole show so far.
Ps where did the dogs and their handlers go that were pursuing Sansa?
They've totally f'ed up Dorne. Are there any Martells left??? Weird one, they seem determined to kill off all the decent characters down there and only leave the cardboard snakes.
Fans of Lady Mel are gonna be distraught as well. That, and have their bones go from 0 to 60 back to 0 in the space of a few seconds lol.
The dogs and the handlers was one plot hole I noticed myself. The other one being how the girls got onto the boat with Tristane if we last saw them left behind on the docks?? Whatever.