My parents don't have the internet so this thread is for them.
If people who stand in seats want Charlton to lose support then they're going about it the right way. My Dad's decided after not being able to see the game at Eastlands not to go to Blackburn. Thank-you to the selfish gits who stopped him from seeing the game. Understandably my Mum is sick of it too.
I agree with bringing back safe standing areas.
Until they come back, we unfortunately have seating. So sit down please. If you stand the person behind you has to stand. If you're six foot tall and the person behind you is 5 foot six, 75 years old, with dodgy knees, has had a hernia operation and a triple heart bypass in the last three years - what do you expect them to do?
Please pass this question to anyone who you know who stood at Man City. Don't suppose they'll have the decency to reply though.
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He'll be able to sit where he likes at Blackburn as well, so no worries there.
True normally at Blackburn but Charlton are laying on free coach travel so it'll be pretty full. Hard to move if there's nowhere to move to.
Apologies on the Blackburn game, didnt know the club were laying on free travel.
Bottom line is that though they have nothing personal against the other group, they are seeing games, build ups, the whole package of the day completely differently that there is very little resolution of this. The club need the younger generation to keep travelling because that will be the lifeblood of the club, despite the 'service' the older generation has put in over the years.
Pardew also emphasises the atmosphere createdby the fans as being a key element, ten times more than Curbs did, so its vital we increase our vocalling efforts. To generalise, they is most seen in the younger element, and is also increased by standing. People are more comfortable making more noise standing. Its why the atmosphere in the last 12 months was better at Boro, Fulham, Watford and Man City than other games.
The compromise that will be the only workable solution will be for the club to set aside a block at the very front for the older regular travellers and those with young kids. Tickets have always been set aside for groups in the past, most of those effected are regular coach travellers who know the main organisers, so it won't take much organisation.
It won't be perfect, but its a solution. Especially with the standing element growing, like it is at every single club in the country. And it will only be getting more.
There's no easy answer to this situation. I think the safe standing option would be the ideal but it'll take more political will (or bottle) than the current government or football authorities seem to have. Recent events in Spain and Italy would not have helped the cause of terracing.
Won't be perfect, and will always get some wrong, but it could only help IMO.
so it seems whether i sat down or stood up somebody was inconvenienced - what is the answer?
I'll always stand up, up until the point it's causing other people a problem, I've been asked several times to sit down, always do. I think that's all it needs, a little bit of consideration for those around you. What I don't like seeing is the guy 4-5 seats to the side of me hurling abuse at the people in front of him, not once asking politely for people to sit down, just pretty much using every swear word possible at these people. Surely he could see this is far less likely to get people to sit down.
I have every sympathy for your father, although I probably would have stood up in front of him, the second I was asked to do otherwise I would sit down, everyone has paid their money, everyone is entitled to see the game,
AFKA, a lot of what you are saying is true but some isn't. Firstly, the guy who constantly stood in front of us barely sung so why did he feel the need to stand. If we get relegated where will half these fans be next season. It'll be ironic because they would have driven people like my parents and possibly I away and then won't go themselves. In fact half of them won't be at Everton. Loyal supporters my arse. I agree with you that their are two sets of fans who look at the whole experience differently. My parents arn't typical fans in that they go by coach and don't drink. But then neither do I or many others but we are still fans and entitled to see the game without suffering abuse from fellow 'fans'. What really annoys me about the standers is that most of them wouldn't actually do anything about pressing for safe standing. Why don't they start a Charlton Fans Favour Safe Standing campaign and start lobbying all and sundry about it. Start putting pressure on those that matter. But they won't because it's much easier to abuse others and force their will on others than to actively do something about it. Also, most of them are too young to have actually stood at games. If safe standing returns they will probably stand a couple of times then bleat that they can't see properly and want to sit.
Its quite simple. People buy tickets for SEATS. This means they are supposed to be SAT on. I am Forty Seven and took my Eight Year old who COULD NOT see the play because of people in front standing. This spoils his enjoyment of the game and potentially puts him off going again. This issue has nothing to do with youth versus wrinklies. I am perfectly fit to stand, I quite like standing but I prefer to sit and take my lad who can only see the game if those in front sit down. It is loutish stupidity for people to keep standing up in front of others.
I also do not buy the "lack of atmosphere" argument. You can be just as vocal and passionate sitting down IMHO.
As for the club gerrymandering the seat allocation, this is pure fantasy. They just won't do it. The only solution is to keep up the pressure for safe standing (which I support).
One issue that is worth mentioning in passing was the stewarding at Citeh. They only tried to enforce the sitting down rules for us and not the Massives. That added to the irritation of those of our fans who wanted to stand and made the situation worse. I understand that Reg is taking this matter up with the Citeh board as that kind of onesidedness is totally out of order.
Nothing.
I can't see anything other than what i suggested. If the stewards become more draconian, then that will lead to potential trouble in the seats, and it would also alienate a lot more people than it is at the moment.
At the moment, we desperately need BOTH types of fans. Alienating one group in favour of the other will serve little good to Charlton, and that it is the be all and end all really.
I know it must be frustrating for those that want to sit, but there is part of me that thinks be grateful this is Charlton, where these things are respected ten times better than the vast majority of other clubs travelling support.
I think the fans have to try and police themselves, those who want to stand should try and swap places with those who want to sit so that they don't obscure their sight. I appreciate that this is awkward to arrange but it's the only solution. The alternative being an unwritten rule amongst the fans that the last few rows of seats at the back of a block are for those who want to stand, this for obvious reasons cannot be official. If this isn't possible then they should respect those who are sitting and stay sat down.
I think this problem with "so called louts" is overstated. You can count on one hand the amount of away games that sell out. It's not really much of a problem. Go to practically every other premiership side, who sell out and stand on mass.
one thing that came out of last weeks events in rome and seville, was that i realised how far ahead our policing/stewarding is in this country. whilst supporting the safe standing campaign, i still think that all current ground regulations should be adhered to. the fact of the matter is that people that continue to stand, are giving evidence to the powers that be of ground regs being broken. this would hinder the safe standing cause.
what (imo) would be the biggest help for the safe standing cause, would be if the police/safety officers/stewards etc could report to the powers that be the lack of problems over a period of time. this hopefully would give a positive profile of the average fan and maybe they would start to listen to our suggestions.
with regards to jimmy melrose parents, it is just plain rude for people to stand when asked not to but i'm afraid there are a lot of people that think common courtesy is something working class women do when meeting the queen.
Seriously though it has to be said that the overwhelming majority of our fans constitutes an older generation of fans who go to watch the football and women and children. I myself quite like to stand but aggressive behaviour towards other fans that we saw at Watford this year is totally unacceptable. Perhaps special areas for 'standers' is the only way but that would need to be conducted by supporters groups who organise group travel. Another factor that could help is that often enough at the ticket office, some members of staff are quite happy to sift through the tickets and find me a ticket where I want to sit/stand yet other members of staff will only sell the next ticket in the book. Perhaps if the club allowed supporters to choose where they wanted to sit/stand beforehand then getting a seat wouldn't be so much of 'pot luck' that it seems to be.
IF, and only if, you know that you're certain that you standing up won't cause aggravation to those behind you, by all means stand. If not, move your arse to somewhere you can stand. If that's not possible, swallow your pride and sit down. It's not rocket science.
It's all about consideration for others and if drunken louts do not have the courtesy and self discipline to respect that then they should be removed by the stewards.
75 year olds have as much right to enjoy the game as anybody else!
People moan about our lack of away support but the answer is here in this thread.
Decent people won't travel if their enjoyment is tarnished by abuse and confrontation with drunken thugs.
I've used the word drunken twice I see. As an ex rugby player I enjoy a beer or six if not driving. I don't abuse all around me though!
I started this debate previously after the watford game and again it has reared its ugly head. We have all seater stadiums, for people to suffer a torrent of abuse when asking someone politely to sit down is reprehensible. Large did the folks state their medical history to those around them? If someone does not have the decency to respond in sympathetic and caring manner to a genuine request then they should be outed and the matter passed to the stewards.
Much as I dislike the overbearing nature of the Man U stewards and the double standards that are applied, they take no nonsense with away fans. Stand persistently and you are out. I am sure that once fans start to see this happening they make a simple choice sit and enjoy the game or you will be out on your ear. You start with those at the front get the heavies in in the first 10 mins and the message is then very clear.
I too had to stand for some of the game but out of courtesy to me when the older legs were getting a bit weary the lads in front of me who I know did sit down no problem
I go to Kettering and Rushden and stand, when I go to Charlton home and away I sit, as Inspector says it ain't rocket science just plain and simple pig ignorance to ignore and respect those around you.
In days past there was a choice whether to sit or stand there isn't today at Premiership, simple when you can then do when you cannot then have respect for the others. People Like Large and Bing's folks are the regular away traveller unlike the one offs you get at such games playing the you're not a loyal supporter line. IF THEY ARE NOT HAPPY SITTING THEN THEY SHOULD SIMPLY DECIDE NOT TO GO
these are not fair accusations. I just watched around 98% of Pompey's 2000 travelling support stand for the entire 90 minutes, despite them getting stuffed. It was a lunchtime KO, so they wouldn't of been 'drunk' and wouldn't all of been 'louts'.
Those that reply to requests to sit down and reply with foul mouthed abuse are bang out of order, but equally so are those that request to sit down in a foul mouthed way, and especially those that don't request but simply grab someone by the shoulder.
We have less 'drunken louts' and 'drunken thugs' than near enough every other team in the top flight, and we shouldn't forget that.
IMO the fact that this is all happening has a silver lining. We are finally getting a decent away support together and whether the flaskers like it or not this has a large part to do with the growing 'youth' group and taggers on to that group.
This is a good point.
Sorry AFKA, can't accept any of your arguments. For starters my dad sings more tha many of the youg people yu're talking about, many of whom stand but don't sing. They are also the most guilty of singing only when we're winning: my Dad and I do theoppositeas we see it that the team need more encouragement when we're losing.
Such points as these are futile anyhow - if there is no designated standing area, you don't stand. Otherwise you may as well advocate smokng in a no-smoking area.
Are the people who insist on standing, playing a role in the safe standing campaign?
Crap argument - sorry. You cannot justify something by saying that it's even worse elsewhere. That's no basis for justification - if it were we'd be living in anarchy.
If it's not true, how is it that on one coach the police had to come on board to talk to those who were drunk?
Secondly, we're not talking about Portsmouth - they can do as they lke. They ring bells fo example - how daft is that?
Finally, are you advocating more of us get drunk and abuse people because otherwise I don't see the point in your argument.
As for the crap argument / illegal / anarchy thing, its illegal to drive other 30mph, and 70mph on a motorway.....
Yes and those of us who suggest the police would be better employed chasing real criminals rather than those driving a mile an hour or two over the limit are piously told that if you don't speed there is nothing to fear and in any event you shouldn't break the law.
Applying the same principle then everybody should sit rather than stand in all seater stadia as that is the law.
I don't see how this is a personal interest anyway. I prefer to stand too. I actually try to make my Mum try and understand why people want to stand because I understand this too.
That's what consideration and respect is - you listen to other arguments and make a fair conclusion and decision.
The decision has been to have seating.
If people feel strongly enough otherwise then campaign for safe standing.
As for the motorway thing - you've enforced my point. I don't agree with 30mph in some areas but unless I respect it I sometimes get a fine. As someone said earlier, if you stand at Man U you get chucked out. Good law enforcement.