Secondly IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO WE BRING IN AS THEY ARE NOT CHARLTON ATHLETIC PLAYERS IN THE TRUEST SENSE OF THE WORD. They are network players. I may sound a bit romantic here but when we make a signing I like to think of him as giving his all for Charlton Athletic, the lad expecting his contracted two/three/four years with us to be spent with us and for him to grow as a Charlton player. Roland has other ideas. He's not interested in players that fit Charlton Athletic, he wants players that will fit the network and spend a bit of time with Charlton Athletic. How long are we realistically expecting any players to stay? 1 year? 2 max? If half our team is made up of players on loan/bought for nothing from S.L, then again, what a load of horse shit. I don't want a new team every year, If you're against B teams then you should be against this.
IF I MAY OFFER A NOTE OF OPTIMISM:
All players are transient. Regardless of whether the period of stay is six months or twelve years, the player in question has an affiliation with the Club and it is up to them to make the most of this. Ask any York City fan whether Nick Pope wasn't a 'York City player' in the 'truest sense of the word' and you'll probably get laughed at. I'm occasionally given to romanticisms myself but it strikes me as unhelpful to designate a 'proper Charlton player' based on arbitrary criteria of contract length, career ambition or bantz with JJ on Twitter. Ultimately, what designates a player fit for purpose is their on-field performance, with the addendum that off-field conduct also counts for plenty. Look at Ajdarevic - clearly popular in the dressing-room and effective on the field, fitness or no. If he's only spent six months at Charlton, I'd still say I very much enjoyed his time, and will regard his memory fondly. He WAS a 'proper Charlton player' in any measurable regard. I look forward to the prospect of others like him.
I'm still not convinced that we've 'lost our Club' - it is still based in Charlton, it still participates in the community, still sources local talent, still competes in tier 2. Until the entire youth system is scrapped and our first team comprises interchangeable loan signings who clearly don't give a toss (i.e. nothing like Ajdarevic), I will have faith in the Club's integrity. I find it embarrassing that so many are projecting worst-case scenarios as certainties based on one man's testimony of what was clearly a tricky transition period in which Duchatelet clearly made some strategic errors - or at least, decisions that did not appear to have much short-term sense - and showed reprehensible disrespect to a club legend.
Let's see. If Thuram returns and plays every week, throwing the ball in his own net - if Poyet and Morrison leave and are not adequately replaced - if selection decisions are consistently made that we all know to be wrong - if the dressing room doesn't gel, then we have cause for protest. HOWEVER, none of that happened under Riga, and I don't see why it would inevitably happen under Peeters. Duchatelet's project is, as far as I'm concerned, interesting, and has the potential for sustainability, which even as low as tier 2 would be quite an achievement. The cast will revolve, but the script remains the same: compete as well and as attractively as we are able in a sports entertainment industry. Sharing resources with well-coached European sides whose youths are taught to trap a ball properly strikes me as a very good way of stealing a march on some of our direct rivals.
There - a dissenting voice, but I'd noticed Grapevine49 hadn't posted yet, so I felt it was necessary.
As an addendum: Dyer wasn't treated brilliantly, and Powell downright uncouthly, but Duchatelet isn't stupid and I'd imagine he's constantly adjusting his vision for Charlton as he collects more intelligence. A couple of tests failed - a couple passed (including the most important one). Let's see how it plays.
The difference being the manager signed him and picked him.
Whilst I kind of agree with you Leuth the underlying problem is where you point out that our fears about players didn't happen under Riga. Riga, despite seemingly doing everything right wasn't then offered a contract and we now have an insider giving a possible explanation and that explanation is worrying.
Secondly IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO WE BRING IN AS THEY ARE NOT CHARLTON ATHLETIC PLAYERS IN THE TRUEST SENSE OF THE WORD. They are network players. I may sound a bit romantic here but when we make a signing I like to think of him as giving his all for Charlton Athletic, the lad expecting his contracted two/three/four years with us to be spent with us and for him to grow as a Charlton player. Roland has other ideas. He's not interested in players that fit Charlton Athletic, he wants players that will fit the network and spend a bit of time with Charlton Athletic. How long are we realistically expecting any players to stay? 1 year? 2 max? If half our team is made up of players on loan/bought for nothing from S.L, then again, what a load of horse shit. I don't want a new team every year, If you're against B teams then you should be against this.
IF I MAY OFFER A NOTE OF OPTIMISM:
All players are transient. Regardless of whether the period of stay is six months or twelve years, the player in question has an affiliation with the Club and it is up to them to make the most of this. Ask any York City fan whether Nick Pope wasn't a 'York City player' in the 'truest sense of the word' and you'll probably get laughed at. I'm occasionally given to romanticisms myself but it strikes me as unhelpful to designate a 'proper Charlton player' based on arbitrary criteria of contract length, career ambition or bantz with JJ on Twitter. Ultimately, what designates a player fit for purpose is their on-field performance, with the addendum that off-field conduct also counts for plenty. Look at Ajdarevic - clearly popular in the dressing-room and effective on the field, fitness or no. If he's only spent six months at Charlton, I'd still say I very much enjoyed his time, and will regard his memory fondly. He WAS a 'proper Charlton player' in any measurable regard. I look forward to the prospect of others like him.
I'm still not convinced that we've 'lost our Club' - it is still based in Charlton, it still participates in the community, still sources local talent, still competes in tier 2. Until the entire youth system is scrapped and our first team comprises interchangeable loan signings who clearly don't give a toss (i.e. nothing like Ajdarevic), I will have faith in the Club's integrity. I find it embarrassing that so many are projecting worst-case scenarios as certainties based on one man's testimony of what was clearly a tricky transition period in which Duchatelet clearly made some strategic errors - or at least, decisions that did not appear to have much short-term sense - and showed reprehensible disrespect to a club legend.
Let's see. If Thuram returns and plays every week, throwing the ball in his own net - if Poyet and Morrison leave and are not adequately replaced - if selection decisions are consistently made that we all know to be wrong - if the dressing room doesn't gel, then we have cause for protest. HOWEVER, none of that happened under Riga, and I don't see why it would inevitably happen under Peeters. Duchatelet's project is, as far as I'm concerned, interesting, and has the potential for sustainability, which even as low as tier 2 would be quite an achievement. The cast will revolve, but the script remains the same: compete as well and as attractively as we are able in a sports entertainment industry. Sharing resources with well-coached European sides whose youths are taught to trap a ball properly strikes me as a very good way of stealing a march on some of our direct rivals.
There - a dissenting voice, but I'd noticed Grapevine49 hadn't posted yet, so I felt it was necessary.
As an addendum: Dyer wasn't treated brilliantly, and Powell downright uncouthly, but Duchatelet isn't stupid and I'd imagine he's constantly adjusting his vision for Charlton as he collects more intelligence. A couple of tests failed - a couple passed (including the most important one). Let's see how it plays.
The difference being the manager signed him and picked him.
After he was made available for a lower-league loan by Charlton! A player easily good enough for League 1 or 2 but not in the first-team squad - it was simply a question of which club he'd go to, not whether he'd go. What difference are you talking about? Thuram got 3 games, Nego one, Parzyszek one (well, 5 minutes). Clubs will farm out fringe players and it is up to the receiving club to determine their aptitude. Until players are picked despite being of inferior aptitude to others present, or until the playing staff is substandard in toto, there's no cause for alarm, even if Dyer thinks that such a scenario is possible. His concerns were probably brought about by Duchatelet underestimating the sorts of players you'd need at this level. I don't see that happening again, but maybe I'm too optimistic.
Secondly IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO WE BRING IN AS THEY ARE NOT CHARLTON ATHLETIC PLAYERS IN THE TRUEST SENSE OF THE WORD. They are network players. I may sound a bit romantic here but when we make a signing I like to think of him as giving his all for Charlton Athletic, the lad expecting his contracted two/three/four years with us to be spent with us and for him to grow as a Charlton player. Roland has other ideas. He's not interested in players that fit Charlton Athletic, he wants players that will fit the network and spend a bit of time with Charlton Athletic. How long are we realistically expecting any players to stay? 1 year? 2 max? If half our team is made up of players on loan/bought for nothing from S.L, then again, what a load of horse shit. I don't want a new team every year, If you're against B teams then you should be against this.
IF I MAY OFFER A NOTE OF OPTIMISM:
All players are transient. Regardless of whether the period of stay is six months or twelve years, the player in question has an affiliation with the Club and it is up to them to make the most of this. Ask any York City fan whether Nick Pope wasn't a 'York City player' in the 'truest sense of the word' and you'll probably get laughed at. I'm occasionally given to romanticisms myself but it strikes me as unhelpful to designate a 'proper Charlton player' based on arbitrary criteria of contract length, career ambition or bantz with JJ on Twitter. Ultimately, what designates a player fit for purpose is their on-field performance, with the addendum that off-field conduct also counts for plenty. Look at Ajdarevic - clearly popular in the dressing-room and effective on the field, fitness or no. If he's only spent six months at Charlton, I'd still say I very much enjoyed his time, and will regard his memory fondly. He WAS a 'proper Charlton player' in any measurable regard. I look forward to the prospect of others like him.
I'm still not convinced that we've 'lost our Club' - it is still based in Charlton, it still participates in the community, still sources local talent, still competes in tier 2. Until the entire youth system is scrapped and our first team comprises interchangeable loan signings who clearly don't give a toss (i.e. nothing like Ajdarevic), I will have faith in the Club's integrity. I find it embarrassing that so many are projecting worst-case scenarios as certainties based on one man's testimony of what was clearly a tricky transition period in which Duchatelet clearly made some strategic errors - or at least, decisions that did not appear to have much short-term sense - and showed reprehensible disrespect to a club legend.
Let's see. If Thuram returns and plays every week, throwing the ball in his own net - if Poyet and Morrison leave and are not adequately replaced - if selection decisions are consistently made that we all know to be wrong - if the dressing room doesn't gel, then we have cause for protest. HOWEVER, none of that happened under Riga, and I don't see why it would inevitably happen under Peeters. Duchatelet's project is, as far as I'm concerned, interesting, and has the potential for sustainability, which even as low as tier 2 would be quite an achievement. The cast will revolve, but the script remains the same: compete as well and as attractively as we are able in a sports entertainment industry. Sharing resources with well-coached European sides whose youths are taught to trap a ball properly strikes me as a very good way of stealing a march on some of our direct rivals.
There - a dissenting voice, but I'd noticed Grapevine49 hadn't posted yet, so I felt it was necessary.
As an addendum: Dyer wasn't treated brilliantly, and Powell downright uncouthly, but Duchatelet isn't stupid and I'd imagine he's constantly adjusting his vision for Charlton as he collects more intelligence. A couple of tests failed - a couple passed (including the most important one). Let's see how it plays.
The difference being the manager signed him and picked him.
After he was made available for a lower-league loan by Charlton! A player easily good enough for League 1 or 2 but not in the first-team squad - it was simply a question of which club he'd go to, not whether he'd go. What difference are you talking about? Thuram got 3 games, Nego one, Parzyszek one (well, 5 minutes). Clubs will farm out fringe players and it is up to the receiving club to determine their aptitude. Until players are picked despite being of inferior aptitude to others present, or until the playing staff is substandard in toto, there's no cause for alarm, even if Dyer thinks that such a scenario is possible. His concerns were probably brought about by Duchatelet underestimating the sorts of players you'd need at this level. I don't see that happening again, but maybe I'm too optimistic.
Anyone could tell Thuram was sub standard after one minute, yet he played for a few games.
Haha, I've just had a voicemail left for me. "We are giving you a courtesy call to see why you haven't renewed your season-ticket."
This thread is exactly why, and I'm sure there'll be a more twists and turns before the season starts. Although Dyer's words are horrible confirmation it might at least make a few people wake up and smell the coffee. What we can do about that as a collective I don't know, such news as this really does make you fear the worst.
To us fans results matter. A potential scenario is emerging where results don't mattet as much to both the players and the powers that be providing playing assets can be sweated. A hat trick in a 5-3 defeat or worldy performances in a losing team, or getting a players stats up for the internet scouts might make business sense. Results matter less than player development at youth and development squad level, are we now to see that approach with the first team?
Very good - and much healthier in the long term- to get all this on the table.
Whilst he is very close to Chris Powell and clearly ( and unsurprisingly) found RD's approach repugnant, Alex Dyer knew that his contract would not be renewed and he does not come across as a man who is spinning matters in order to try and inflict some damage on the new regime; on the contrary, he is an extremely credible source and I have no doubt that everything he has said is factually correct.
Interesting, though, that the article states that Alex "believes" that Jose Riga was not kept on beyond the end of the season because, essentially, he only played Reza and Ajdarevic of the players who came to us in January. That may well be the case and if, so, it's extremely worrying because it would demonstrate that RD intends to:
- continue his attempts to meddle in team selection; - subordinate the best interests of CAFC to the perceived best interests of the network; - persist with his apparently harebrained and ridiculous scouting system; and
worst of all, that RD has learned nothing about the realities of life in the Championship or what our club is all about.
I expect that, as a decent journalist, Richard Cawley would have pressed Alex quite hard on why Jose was not retained by RD. It may be that Alex has spoken to Jose about this and had it confirmed first hand but is, as you'd expect, respecting a confidence. It is also quite possible, of course, that Jose himself has never been told by RD why he was not retained after the end of his short term contract (indeed, I think that may have been suggested in one of the press reports - one can imagine RD operating in such a way). Whatever the position, Alex Dyer may have no direct knowledge of the reasons for RD's decision but is, not unreasonably, forming a view from his past experience with the man.
I fear he is right but I don't think we should discount the possibility that RD always saw Jose as a short term appointment and that, going forward, he sees Bob Peeters (if it be he) as a better long term bet for reasons unrelated to Jose's unwillingness to accept the 'mischiefs' referred to above. There is also no mention in the article of RD attempting to lean on Jose Riga and the coaching staff after Chris' departure in early March, which may or may not be significant, given that the 'proof of the pudding' in terms of team selection was that we stayed up (leaving aside, for present purposes, the lamentable inadequacy of most of the players provided to us).
On a different note, the SLP article is bound to be picked up by the nationals and will understandably trigger another round of negative publicity for our club. Whilst that is fully deserved, RD needs to act swiftly now to try and stabilise the position, not least through the appointment of the new chief coach. We also need some meaningful reassurances about what his plans are for CAFC, given the upheaval the club has through in the last 18 months. If matters are allowed to 'drift', I share Fanny's concern that this will certainly encourage Morro and Diego Poyet to head for the exit, recognising that they may already be going down that route.
If RD has taken some lessons from the last five months, we can have some hope for our short term future; if not, we are in big trouble, not just in terms of next season, but as a credible football club.
Hopefully the appointment of the new chief coach will be a catalyst for the long awaited meeting between the board and the the club's supporters. It is safe to say that there will be no shortage of things to discuss.
And don't hold your breath on the network players joining us this summer being up to it. They are coming from the equivalent of the Scottish league and the comparison probably equates to Aberdeen's reserves or lower,(Anderlecht & Bruges are the old firm in Belgium). How are they going to be good enough to play in the championship? Scouts with stats and lap-tops...do me a favour. Get off your arses and do a proper assessment on whether a player is good enough to play at the level, fits into the team pattern you want to play and is the right character. (Ex-Scout)
English football is totally different to the Belgian League in standard, depth, physicality and atmosphere (ex-scout).
I think that there's a lot of worry about fuck all tbh but that's just my opinion
D to be honest mate i only go now cos of the little fella the way things av gone over recent years im really losing heart mate , the football is so poor the players are poor , and its down to greedy owners who dont really care.
I think that there's a lot of worry about fuck all tbh but that's just my opinion
D to be honest mate i only go now cos of the little fella the way things av gone over recent years im really losing heart mate , the football is so poor the players are poor , and its down to greedy owners who dont really care.
But next season will be a different team who knows maybe a better team .
Charlton leak O'Grady rumour to try to distract from Dyer comments… Not working!
Why would anyone want to come to this basket-case of a football club? Players around the league will know the real story from the dressing room, managers and coaches will have heard, agents and scouts will know. Players have mates at other clubs. The word will spread very quickly. AD has just put it out in the public domain, so those who didn't already now, will now. Advice from agents will be don't touch it with a barge-pole unless they offer silly money and a get out clause in the event of relegation.
I think that there's a lot of worry about fuck all tbh but that's just my opinion
D to be honest mate i only go now cos of the little fella the way things av gone over recent years im really losing heart mate , the football is so poor the players are poor , and its down to greedy owners who dont really care.
But next season will be a different team who knows maybe a better team .
I think that there's a lot of worry about fuck all tbh but that's just my opinion
D to be honest mate i only go now cos of the little fella the way things av gone over recent years im really losing heart mate , the football is so poor the players are poor , and its down to greedy owners who dont really care.
But next season will be a different team who knows maybe a better team .
Maybe , just feel we are losing our identity,been going since 1976 and things aint the same which is sad, guess its the sign of the times.
In the beginning I thought RD was not interested in the history and tradition of CAFC and was just a selfish businessman who saw us a feeder club to make Standard Liege better. However now I think he is just clueless. He possibly wants the best for CAFC and wants us to get to the Premier League, but is just a clueless idiot who doesn't understand football, the league and just know what he's doing.
To us fans results matter. A potential scenario is emerging where results don't mattet as much to both the players and the powers that be providing playing assets can be sweated. A hat trick in a 5-3 defeat or worldy performances in a losing team, or getting a players stats up for the internet scouts might make business sense. Results matter less than player development at youth and development squad level, are we now to see that approach with the first team?
I would say no. It's got to be much easier to sell players for good money from a good team than from a bad team.
Charlton leak O'Grady rumour to try to distract from Dyer comments… Not working!
Why would anyone want to come to this basket-case of a football club? Players around the league will know the real story from the dressing room, managers and coaches will have heard, agents and scouts will know. Players have mates at other clubs. The word will spread very quickly. AD has just put it out in the public domain, so those who didn't already now, will now. Advice from agents will be don't touch it with a barge-pole unless they offer silly money and a get out clause in the event of relegation.
This makes a lot of sense. Could Roland get any mileage from publicly admitting that mistakes have been made but lessons have been learned, even if it was via Katrien or the club generally?
The most concerning aspect of all this to me is RDs inability to evaluate players, whether himself or through a delegate, he seems to have missed on the relative quality of players sent over already. There is nothing in theory wrong with the approach of using his player network if it was improving the squad. If available bring in good players from the network and they'll play if they're better than the one's here, I don't think many would complain about that including any coach/ manager in place.
But having evaluated his available network player pool vs the squad he sent us a set of players who, apart from AA and one Reza goal did little to improve us and contribute to keeping us in the league, and that disconnect with that of CP, JR, AD and us the supporters is a massive concern when he clearly has put pressure on the coaching stuff to adopt his opinion. If his ego is that his evaluation is correct, with evidence to contray, the question will be how bad will we have to get to change that view.
Another big unknown is if he has taken from last season and does reassess his evaluation and decides that the network doesn't have have good enough players available to send to us to play at Championship level, will he buy from the market and buy well. And if you buy badly in the summer you're always in for a tough year, network or not.
It's not just his ability to value his own useless network players but his inability to properly value the players and manager we had. The baby was thrown out with the proverbial bath water. And he was unwilling to hear otherwise.
I think that there's a lot of worry about fuck all tbh but that's just my opinion
I think there is reason to worry. Well done on writing "fuck", by the way. I fail to see the point in "f*ck" and the like. It's as bad people in the Harry Potter books being afraid to say "Voldemort".
Whilst I accept that having the owner in your ear day and night asking why Network players weren't in the team, is a far from ideal situation, it is different to RD outright picking the team.
The consensus on this thread seems to be that Dyer's statement means that RD picked the team. For what it is worth my take is that RD obviously trusted whoever sourced the players and perhaps even respected his view over Powell's and as a result wanted to know why players who he had been advised were good enough for the Championship were not being used. It is highly likely that the same person had sourced players who had been very successful for Liege.
CP is Dyers mate and whatever he says will be geared up to defend him.
I suspect that there is a middle ground here and that to some extent the "meddling" of RD is being blown up out of proportion.
I'll still sit and wait and judge once the squad is assembled.
When's the trust sitting down with KM to discuss the strategy at the club? She said wait till the end of the season right? So is it in the process of being arranged now, what questions are being asked and how is it going to be reported back to the fans? (e.g. will there be embargoes etc.). Is it just the trust meeting her, or the G21 etc?
Knowing that she has been as good as her word would at least offer some encouragement... so can we have a status update please?
Whilst I accept that having the owner in your ear day and night asking why Network players weren't in the team, is a far from ideal situation, it is different to RD outright picking the team.
The consensus on this thread seems to be that Dyer's statement means that RD picked the team. For what it is worth my take is that RD obviously trusted whoever sourced the players and perhaps even respected his view over Powell's and as a result wanted to know why players who he had been advised were good enough for the Championship were not being used. It is highly likely that the same person had sourced players who had been very successful for Liege.
CP is Dyers mate and whatever he says will be geared up to defend his him.
I suspect that there is a middle ground here and that to some extent the "meddling" of RD is being blown up out of proportion.
I'll still sit and wait and judge once the squad is assembled.
So in other words he's not meddling or picking the team he's just a clueless idiot?
Charlton leak O'Grady rumour to try to distract from Dyer comments… Not working!
Why would anyone want to come to this basket-case of a football club? Players around the league will know the real story from the dressing room, managers and coaches will have heard, agents and scouts will know. Players have mates at other clubs. The word will spread very quickly. AD has just put it out in the public domain, so those who didn't already now, will now. Advice from agents will be don't touch it with a barge-pole unless they offer silly money and a get out clause in the event of relegation.
I am afraid that right now - post Riga's unexplained departure - that I am increasingly of this view.
RD needs to get a new boss in quick and give him proper money for new players because if we turn up for the first game of 2014/2015 with a bunch of kids and Belgian loanees plus Jackson and Wiggins then there will be absolute hell to pay.
People copped it in the second half of last season because RD had little time to re-stock the squad - and Riga kept us up - but if we don't re-invest big time in the summer then RD may as well stick his "plan" in the desk bottom drawer because all bets will be off.
Charlton leak O'Grady rumour to try to distract from Dyer comments… Not working!
Why would anyone want to come to this basket-case of a football club? Players around the league will know the real story from the dressing room, managers and coaches will have heard, agents and scouts will know. Players have mates at other clubs. The word will spread very quickly. AD has just put it out in the public domain, so those who didn't already now, will now. Advice from agents will be don't touch it with a barge-pole unless they offer silly money and a get out clause in the event of relegation.
I am afraid that right now - post Riga's unexplained departure - that I am increasingly of this view.
RD needs to get a new boss in quick and give him proper money for new players because if we turn up for the first game of 2014/2015 with a bunch of kids and Belgian loanees plus Jackson and Wiggins then there will be absolute hell to pay.
People copped it in the second half of last season because RD had little time to re-stock the squad - and Riga kept us up - but if we don't re-invest big time in the summer then RD may as well stick his "plan" in the desk bottom drawer because all bets will be off.
The days of our 'bosses' spending the money and choosing the players we sign is long out the window I'm afraid. It's all a shambles, football clubs can't be run like we are at the moment.
I think that most of us could see what was happening and what is about to happen towards the end of last season when Yann and Stephens were sold along with no significant incomings , but the key question is...why? Why would RD put lots of dosh into 1) buying the club 2) the academy 3) Pitch, - if it all goes tits up (which is what it looks like), then RD is millions out of pocket , with a likelihood of either going into admin or being sold for a pittance with RD heavily out of pocket. maybe someone could enlighten me.
How can it be right that the owner holds the management of the club to account? How is it that a management team that secured 6 wins in 30 was under pressure? How is it possible that a new head coach secured 7 wins in 16 with exactly the same squad(less Kermorgant Stephens and Alnwick)? How is it that our form before Duchatelet took over was so bad and yet he is taking the heat for us staying up? And why did we have ten players on the books all season just released which haven't caused a murmur because they didn't play much?
When appraising Duchatelet it appears that all the network clubs are in a better position than when he took them over... Hungarian side won the cup and Spanish team in with a shout of play-offs after spell in bottom four. @se9addick has posted a link to the post Sheffield united thread which I've not opened. I really don't want to go back there! Let's all remember we were bottom of the League not so long ago with a 50% chance of going down. And Dyer was part of the set up which put us there. What has been published might be all or part of the story - I won't comment on the content or motivation as that is for the club. I would say that the piece has received an entirely different reception on into the Valley!
I think Duchatelet still has to show this can work in the Championship and perhaps we need to define what "working" means. And someone somewhere splashed a ridiculous amount of cash on Thuram and that shouldn't be a CAFC problem. But the basic idea of not paying 28 year old second rate second tier footballers 500k or even 750k per annum has some appeal. Instead get the best 17-19 year olds you can on half that money with the bonus of being able to sell them on to recoup costs. Please remember that we won more games under Duchatelet in cup and league since the takeover than we did before 5th January. He sold players for cash, we saw Poyet arrive on the scene and end up poty... Who knows whether Poyet and Gomez will stay and who knows how good the additional players recruited will be. But we get a fee if they go which helps to fund the club.
We don't need 35-40 professional players on the books. If they can add some quality and potential to the 15-20 who are already signed up for the next two years then all good. If they can't then Duchatelet is wasting his time and money. As someone else posted today ask yourselves what is his motivation for destroying value? Having said all that now might be a good time for a statement from the club!
Comments
This thread is exactly why, and I'm sure there'll be a more twists and turns before the season starts. Although Dyer's words are horrible confirmation it might at least make a few people wake up and smell the coffee. What we can do about that as a collective I don't know, such news as this really does make you fear the worst.
A hat trick in a 5-3 defeat or worldy performances in a losing team, or getting a players stats up for the internet scouts might make business sense.
Results matter less than player development at youth and development squad level, are we now to see that approach with the first team?
Whilst he is very close to Chris Powell and clearly ( and unsurprisingly) found RD's approach repugnant, Alex Dyer knew that his contract would not be renewed and he does not come across as a man who is spinning matters in order to try and inflict some damage on the new regime; on the contrary, he is an extremely credible source and I have no doubt that everything he has said is factually correct.
Interesting, though, that the article states that Alex "believes" that Jose Riga was not kept on beyond the end of the season because, essentially, he only played Reza and Ajdarevic of the players who came to us in January. That may well be the case and if, so, it's extremely worrying because it would demonstrate that RD intends to:
- continue his attempts to meddle in team selection;
- subordinate the best interests of CAFC to the perceived best interests of the network;
- persist with his apparently harebrained and ridiculous scouting system; and
worst of all, that RD has learned nothing about the realities of life in the Championship or what our club is all about.
I expect that, as a decent journalist, Richard Cawley would have pressed Alex quite hard on why Jose was not retained by RD. It may be that Alex has spoken to Jose about this and had it confirmed first hand but is, as you'd expect, respecting a confidence. It is also quite possible, of course, that Jose himself has never been told by RD why he was not retained after the end of his short term contract (indeed, I think that may have been suggested in one of the press reports - one can imagine RD operating in such a way). Whatever the position, Alex Dyer may have no direct knowledge of the reasons for RD's decision but is, not unreasonably, forming a view from his past experience with the man.
I fear he is right but I don't think we should discount the possibility that RD always saw Jose as a short term appointment and that, going forward, he sees Bob Peeters (if it be he) as a better long term bet for reasons unrelated to Jose's unwillingness to accept the 'mischiefs' referred to above. There is also no mention in the article of RD attempting to lean on Jose Riga and the coaching staff after Chris' departure in early March, which may or may not be significant, given that the 'proof of the pudding' in terms of team selection was that we stayed up (leaving aside, for present purposes, the lamentable inadequacy of most of the players provided to us).
On a different note, the SLP article is bound to be picked up by the nationals and will understandably trigger another round of negative publicity for our club. Whilst that is fully deserved, RD needs to act swiftly now to try and stabilise the position, not least through the appointment of the new chief coach. We also need some meaningful reassurances about what his plans are for CAFC, given the upheaval the club has through in the last 18 months. If matters are allowed to 'drift', I share Fanny's concern that this will certainly encourage Morro and Diego Poyet to head for the exit, recognising that they may already be going down that route.
If RD has taken some lessons from the last five months, we can have some hope for our short term future; if not, we are in big trouble, not just in terms of next season, but as a credible football club.
Hopefully the appointment of the new chief coach will be a catalyst for the long awaited meeting between the board and the the club's supporters. It is safe to say that there will be no shortage of things to discuss.
And don't hold your breath on the network players joining us this summer being up to it. They are coming from the equivalent of the Scottish league and the comparison probably equates to Aberdeen's reserves or lower,(Anderlecht & Bruges are the old firm in Belgium). How are they going to be good enough to play in the championship? Scouts with stats and lap-tops...do me a favour. Get off your arses and do a proper assessment on whether a player is good enough to play at the level, fits into the team pattern you want to play and is the right character. (Ex-Scout)
English football is totally different to the Belgian League in standard, depth, physicality and atmosphere (ex-scout).
But having evaluated his available network player pool vs the squad he sent us a set of players who, apart from AA and one Reza goal did little to improve us and contribute to keeping us in the league, and that disconnect with that of CP, JR, AD and us the supporters is a massive concern when he clearly has put pressure on the coaching stuff to adopt his opinion.
If his ego is that his evaluation is correct, with evidence to contray, the question will be how bad will we have to get to change that view.
Another big unknown is if he has taken from last season and does reassess his evaluation and decides that the network doesn't have have good enough players available to send to us to play at Championship level, will he buy from the market and buy well. And if you buy badly in the summer you're always in for a tough year, network or not.
Thanks Roland.
The consensus on this thread seems to be that Dyer's statement means that RD picked the team. For what it is worth my take is that RD obviously trusted whoever sourced the players and perhaps even respected his view over Powell's and as a result wanted to know why players who he had been advised were good enough for the Championship were not being used. It is highly likely that the same person had sourced players who had been very successful for Liege.
CP is Dyers mate and whatever he says will be geared up to defend him.
I suspect that there is a middle ground here and that to some extent the "meddling" of RD is being blown up out of proportion.
I'll still sit and wait and judge once the squad is assembled.
Next belgie in is Edsin Thesand
When's the trust sitting down with KM to discuss the strategy at the club? She said wait till the end of the season right? So is it in the process of being arranged now, what questions are being asked and how is it going to be reported back to the fans? (e.g. will there be embargoes etc.). Is it just the trust meeting her, or the G21 etc?
Knowing that she has been as good as her word would at least offer some encouragement... so can we have a status update please?
RD needs to get a new boss in quick and give him proper money for new players because if we turn up for the first game of 2014/2015 with a bunch of kids and Belgian loanees plus Jackson and Wiggins then there will be absolute hell to pay.
People copped it in the second half of last season because RD had little time to re-stock the squad - and Riga kept us up - but if we don't re-invest big time in the summer then RD may as well stick his "plan" in the desk bottom drawer because all bets will be off.
Why would RD put lots of dosh into 1) buying the club 2) the academy 3) Pitch, - if it all goes tits up (which is what it looks like), then RD is millions out of pocket , with a likelihood of either going into admin or being sold for a pittance with RD heavily out of pocket.
maybe someone could enlighten me.
When appraising Duchatelet it appears that all the network clubs are in a better position than when he took them over... Hungarian side won the cup and Spanish team in with a shout of play-offs after spell in bottom four.
@se9addick has posted a link to the post Sheffield united thread which I've not opened. I really don't want to go back there! Let's all remember we were bottom of the League not so long ago with a 50% chance of going down.
And Dyer was part of the set up which put us there. What has been published might be all or part of the story - I won't comment on the content or motivation as that is for the club. I would say that the piece has received an entirely different reception on into the Valley!
I think Duchatelet still has to show this can work in the Championship and perhaps we need to define what "working" means. And someone somewhere splashed a ridiculous amount of cash on Thuram and that shouldn't be a CAFC problem. But the basic idea of not paying 28 year old second rate second tier footballers 500k or even 750k per annum has some appeal. Instead get the best 17-19 year olds you can on half that money with the bonus of being able to sell them on to recoup costs.
Please remember that we won more games under Duchatelet in cup and league since the takeover than we did before 5th January. He sold players for cash, we saw Poyet arrive on the scene and end up poty... Who knows whether Poyet and Gomez will stay and who knows how good the additional players recruited will be. But we get a fee if they go which helps to fund the club.
We don't need 35-40 professional players on the books. If they can add some quality and potential to the 15-20 who are already signed up for the next two years then all good. If they can't then Duchatelet is wasting his time and money. As someone else posted today ask yourselves what is his motivation for destroying value?
Having said all that now might be a good time for a statement from the club!
Maybe we are getting older and losing the feel only seeing it continue in the eyes of our babies
And tbh little James and Scarlett are too young for it to really be about what league we are in
James loves it for time with you and Scarlett ain't stopped talking about it and can't wait to go back
Maybe that's why I don't see the worry that some are
Maybe it's why I am willing to wait and see
But I honestly have a feeling that RD is a lucky owner don't know what it is or why but the guy is gonna get it right I can see it