So we have a confirmed drug cheat and a convicted rapist. I wonder what makes them a favourite?
They're all drug cheats. Some confirmed, some not. Armstrong was a superb cyclist, with or without. Some people try and make it sound like if you pumped any old fat bloke with drugs and he'd win Le Tour.
Armstrong was good but not 'superb', he had not won anything major (bar two classics) before his first tour win, his best finish in le tour being 36th while withdrawing from his other 3 tour entries before he 'won' it.
Plus his attitude and constant denial of the doping absolutely stunk. He'd probably make it into my top 5 entries of least favorite sports stars.
And what did Wiggins and Froome actually win before Le Tour? Weak argument that one. Oh and don't let the fact that he had cancer get in the way of his lack of previous success eh? Or maybe that was a lie too?
At the end of the day, he never failed a dope test did he? Just like dozens of others who are still racing with undetectable chemicals.
Nah I mean Wiggins has only won 9 gold medals at Olympic and world levels before he won le tour, not like thats an achievement or anything. He also had to specifically change focus to become successful at the grand tours, I mean look how shite he did in last years Giro, there is no Armstrong invincibility about his performance.
As for Froome, he had a parasitic disease, bilharzia which greatly limited his performance in the early years of his career. However once rid of this, his true potential was realised, there was still no big jump to just winning a grand tour (unlike Armstrong), it took him 3 years to actually win one. Yet in these 3 years he achieved 3 top 4 finishes at grand tours.
As for the cancer, well of course he had it and I congratulate him for coming through and shaking off that horrible disease. In fact I believe it was only after he got rid of it that he started to dope. As thats when the transformation came from Grand Tour stage/Classics winner to miraculous climber, something that he'd never displayed in his career before.
The fact he used cancer as a shield to hound out anyone who accused him of doping (kind of like what you've done) makes my dislike of him grow even more. You only have to watch his encounter with Paul Kimmage to see how uses cancer as a defense/cover for his cheating, truly horrible.
There were numerous dope tests that he avoided and there were suspect results, they were just either covered up or excuses were given, I mean at the end of the day, he admitted he doped didn't he?
As for today guys, I as young cat 4 cyclist myself do hope they are not cheating and do not believe that they are. I mean look at the difference on a typical mountain stage of le tour, there is no more Armstrong-like soloing away in a huge gear, just smaller digs in much smaller gears. But of course thanks to guys like Armstrong who made this doping culture a part of cycling, we'll never be 100% sure.
Jack Nicklaus Seve Ballesteros Greg Norman Ronnie o'sullivan - can't actually stand him but his snooker is just remarkable. Phil Taylor - same as o'sullivan
The most frustrating boxer I've ever seen - when he wanted to be he was world class - when he didn't he was pony. Remember seeing him in a fight at Wembley Conference Centre and he was just brilliant - hands low, snapping out jabs, playing to the crowd (fairly small crowd!!)
Goran Ivanišević - Winning Wimbledon as a wildcard.
Interesting - where would you put Boris Becker when winning Wimbledon as a 17 year old qualifier?
Good question
Two very different achievements, when Boris won as a 17 year old unseeded player (only the top 16 were seeded at that time) he would of been seeded about 20th which was his approximate world ranking at the time I think.
I was still at school when Boris won and was a bit under 17 myself so me and my friends really were in awe at his win. We all played a lot of tennis at the time.
Personally for me the Goran win was special he was ranked 125 in the world at the time and nearly 30 years old. He was considered a player well past his best and was invited as a wild card because he was quite popular and not thought of as a serious contender. He is the only wildcard to of ever won a Grand Slam, Michael Chang beat Becker's youngest winner title not long after.
Both great players and winners but for different reasons, I grew up watching a lot of tennis, back in the day when households had 1 television, have very fond memories of watching John McEnroe at Wimbledon with my mum in the front room.
So we have a confirmed drug cheat and a convicted rapist. I wonder what makes them a favourite?
They're all drug cheats. Some confirmed, some not. Armstrong was a superb cyclist, with or without. Some people try and make it sound like if you pumped any old fat bloke with drugs and he'd win Le Tour.
Armstrong was good but not 'superb', he had not won anything major (bar two classics) before his first tour win, his best finish in le tour being 36th while withdrawing from his other 3 tour entries before he 'won' it.
Plus his attitude and constant denial of the doping absolutely stunk. He'd probably make it into my top 5 entries of least favorite sports stars.
And what did Wiggins and Froome actually win before Le Tour? Weak argument that one. Oh and don't let the fact that he had cancer get in the way of his lack of previous success eh? Or maybe that was a lie too?
At the end of the day, he never failed a dope test did he? Just like dozens of others who are still racing with undetectable chemicals.
But of course thanks to guys like Armstrong who made this doping culture a part of cycling, we'll never be 100% sure.
Yes of course I didn't realise Armstrong was riding in the 60's and made the doping culture, part of cycling.
ps Armstrong was World Champion in 1993.
pps Wiggins achievements on the track (although remarkable) are nothing like winning classics on the road. It's like comparing F1 with rallycross.
ppps I like Wiggins a lot, so don't think I'm trying to put Sir Brad down.
At the end of day, Wiggins summed up my feelings about Armstrong in his book when he said "I felt like I did when I found out Father Christmas wasn't real". I felt like that too, and maybe a lot of your dislike is based on that you feel cheated because you believed in him? And then the story's about his personality came out and your dislike turned to hate.
The most frustrating boxer I've ever seen - when he wanted to be he was world class - when he didn't he was pony. Remember seeing him in a fight at Wembley Conference Centre and he was just brilliant - hands low, snapping out jabs, playing to the crowd (fairly small crowd!!)
Low hands, defence through head movement, leading with uppers. Not the best in terms of ruling his sport, but I loved to watch him, made me want to box.
So we have a confirmed drug cheat and a convicted rapist. I wonder what makes them a favourite?
In my case , Mike Tyson , I loved watching him . The most destructive boxer of all time IMHO . His later convictions have no bearing on my enjoyment of watching him box.
@Bedsaddick I also enjoyed watching him box but his subsequent behaviour precludes me from holding the man in anything but contempt. How bad would his behaviour have to be before he would cease to be one of your favourites? Murderer, paedophile, cannibal? I'm not having a go at you, just interested in your thoughts.
So we have a confirmed drug cheat and a convicted rapist. I wonder what makes them a favourite?
They're all drug cheats. Some confirmed, some not. Armstrong was a superb cyclist, with or without. Some people try and make it sound like if you pumped any old fat bloke with drugs and he'd win Le Tour.
Armstrong was good but not 'superb', he had not won anything major (bar two classics) before his first tour win, his best finish in le tour being 36th while withdrawing from his other 3 tour entries before he 'won' it.
Plus his attitude and constant denial of the doping absolutely stunk. He'd probably make it into my top 5 entries of least favorite sports stars.
And what did Wiggins and Froome actually win before Le Tour? Weak argument that one. Oh and don't let the fact that he had cancer get in the way of his lack of previous success eh? Or maybe that was a lie too?
At the end of the day, he never failed a dope test did he? Just like dozense have of others who are still racing with undetectable chemicals.
Wiggins had been very successful before he won the Tour, he has a bunch of Olympic medals from before his move to road racing and than he had good road results before his Tour win.
What has Armstrong not failing a test got to do with anything? By his own admission he cheated for every one of his Tour wins, therefore he didn't actually win any of them, so what is it that makes him a favourite? As both a person and an athlete, he is scum, and the argument that others have cheated or are still cheating doesn't hold water, otherwise you can excuse, say, Himmler because Goebbels and Goering were up to no good at the same time.
The most frustrating boxer I've ever seen - when he wanted to be he was world class - when he didn't he was pony. Remember seeing him in a fight at Wembley Conference Centre and he was just brilliant - hands low, snapping out jabs, playing to the crowd (fairly small crowd!!)
Apart from the seeing him live bit, completely agree.
Comments
As for Froome, he had a parasitic disease, bilharzia which greatly limited his performance in the early years of his career. However once rid of this, his true potential was realised, there was still no big jump to just winning a grand tour (unlike Armstrong), it took him 3 years to actually win one. Yet in these 3 years he achieved 3 top 4 finishes at grand tours.
As for the cancer, well of course he had it and I congratulate him for coming through and shaking off that horrible disease. In fact I believe it was only after he got rid of it that he started to dope. As thats when the transformation came from Grand Tour stage/Classics winner to miraculous climber, something that he'd never displayed in his career before.
The fact he used cancer as a shield to hound out anyone who accused him of doping (kind of like what you've done) makes my dislike of him grow even more. You only have to watch his encounter with Paul Kimmage to see how uses cancer as a defense/cover for his cheating, truly horrible.
There were numerous dope tests that he avoided and there were suspect results, they were just either covered up or excuses were given, I mean at the end of the day, he admitted he doped didn't he?
As for today guys, I as young cat 4 cyclist myself do hope they are not cheating and do not believe that they are. I mean look at the difference on a typical mountain stage of le tour, there is no more Armstrong-like soloing away in a huge gear, just smaller digs in much smaller gears. But of course thanks to guys like Armstrong who made this doping culture a part of cycling, we'll never be 100% sure.
Seve Ballesteros
Greg Norman
Ronnie o'sullivan - can't actually stand him but his snooker is just remarkable.
Phil Taylor - same as o'sullivan
Brian Lara
Larry Holmes
Michael Holding
Maradona
Two very different achievements, when Boris won as a 17 year old unseeded player (only the top 16 were seeded at that time) he would of been seeded about 20th which was his approximate world ranking at the time I think.
I was still at school when Boris won and was a bit under 17 myself so me and my friends really were in awe at his win. We all played a lot of tennis at the time.
Personally for me the Goran win was special he was ranked 125 in the world at the time and nearly 30 years old. He was considered a player well past his best and was invited as a wild card because he was quite popular and not thought of as a serious contender. He is the only wildcard to of ever won a Grand Slam, Michael Chang beat Becker's youngest winner title not long after.
Both great players and winners but for different reasons, I grew up watching a lot of tennis, back in the day when households had 1 television, have very fond memories of watching John McEnroe at Wimbledon with my mum in the front room.
Eddie the eagle Edwards
Eric the eel
Zola Budd
Junk yard dog
Gladstone small
2 Mohamed Ali
3 Pele
4 Steve Redgrave
5 Ian Botham
ps Armstrong was World Champion in 1993.
pps Wiggins achievements on the track (although remarkable) are nothing like winning classics on the road. It's like comparing F1 with rallycross.
ppps I like Wiggins a lot, so don't think I'm trying to put Sir Brad down.
At the end of day, Wiggins summed up my feelings about Armstrong in his book when he said "I felt like I did when I found out Father Christmas wasn't real".
I felt like that too, and maybe a lot of your dislike is based on that you feel cheated because you believed in him? And then the story's about his personality came out and your dislike turned to hate.
Keep enjoying your cycling!
Bjorn Borg
Tony McCoy
Ian Botham
Ronnie O'Sullivan
Steve Redgrave
Anna Kornikova ;-)
Ricky Hatton
Phil Tufnell
Mohammed Ali
Shane Warne
C B Fry
Steve Redgrave
I would have included Evil Knievel in my top 5 for someone who i was fascinated with as a child but not really a sportsman.
Trevor Berbick
Tony Tucker
Tyrell Biggs
Larry Holmes
Tony Tubbs
Michael Spinks
i could go on, Were not nobody's.
Andrew Flintoff
Mike Tyson
Andre Agassi
Michael Johnson
Nick Faldo
Steve Ovett
Seb Coe
Ian Botham
Alan Knott
Jim Clark
Martina Navratilova
Muhammed Ali
Marco Pantani
Lance Armstrong
David Millar
Jens Voigt
Supporting Charlton and Dumbarton you become inured to being disappointed!
Michael Phelps
Marcus Trescothick
Johnny Wilkinson
Floyd Mayweather
Andre Agassi
Usain Bolt
Graham Thorpe
Martin Johnson.
Botham.
Borg.
Piggott.
Ali.
What has Armstrong not failing a test got to do with anything? By his own admission he cheated for every one of his Tour wins, therefore he didn't actually win any of them, so what is it that makes him a favourite? As both a person and an athlete, he is scum, and the argument that others have cheated or are still cheating doesn't hold water, otherwise you can excuse, say, Himmler because Goebbels and Goering were up to no good at the same time.
Lara
Holding
Borg
Ali
Barry Sheene
Jack Nicklaus
Phil Mickelson
Nick Faldo