Tiananmen Square

Absurdistan

Can't believe it was 25 years ago today. How quickly time passes.
Was sad to read that 1 man is still in jail for the protests. We may never know how many died (R.I.P) or who tank man was, but China has certainly changed a lot even without the democratic freedoms the protestors coveted.

Such an iconic picture.

Stu_of_Kunming

It could be an interesting few days, can already see armed police around town and the government has forced my school to close all weekend due to a terrorism risk.

For me the worst part it how few Chinese people know what happened.

Friend Or Defoe

A lot of Chinese people think the footage of tank man was made by the west.:-(

R.i.p.

Thommo

The uncropped picture version of Jeff Wideners famous Tiananmen Square image

https://twitter.com/History_Pics/status/472931306972905473/photo/1

PeanutsMolloy

Sobering to contrast the 25th anniversary of an extraordinary display of courage on the part of the Chinese people, one in particular, and its bloody suppression with our own State Opening of Parliament which happens to coincide with it.
The pageantry on display at the Palace of Westminster is a continual reminder of the remarkable evolution (of course similarly confrontational and bloody on occasions, as Black Rod's role today reminds us) of the world's oldest Constitutional democracy.
Whatever one thinks of the Monarchy and/or the quality of our politicians, we are very fortunate indeed to live with comparative liberty as a result of the efforts and sacrifices of so many down the centuries.
Hopefully one day, in their own way, the Chinese will get there.

................."Coalition's last stand" is Denis Skinner's quip this time...LOL

Solidgone

Did anyone else go an see Chimerica....it was a fantastic play about the bag/tank man.

RedArmySE7

My guide when I went to Tiananmen Square simply flat refused to talk about what happened for fear of losing his job when I asked him about it. Always found that really sad/strange/scary.

Paddy7

That wider picture shows just what lengths the desperate bastards in charge were prepared to go to in putting down what was never an aggressive protest. I was in the square three weeks before the tanks rolled in, and again just two days prior. The swelling in numbers over that period was incredible but again I must emphasise that there was absolutely no violence. Bizarrely I was mistaken for a BBC journalist and whisked up on to the central monument by the students who pleaded with me to "tell the world" of their requests for democracy.

We now have a good Chinese friend who lives locally and only believes what happened because I have given her first hand accounts, though thankfully I missed the clampdown.

Jessie

RedArmySE7 said:

My guide when I went to Tiananmen Square simply flat refused to talk about what happened for fear of losing his job when I asked him about it. Always found that really sad/strange/scary.

Actually, not strange at all....

Friend Or Defoe

Paddy7 said:

That wider picture shows just what lengths the desperate bastards in charge were prepared to go to in putting down what was never an aggressive protest. I was in the square three weeks before the tanks rolled in, and again just two days prior. The swelling in numbers over that period was incredible but again I must emphasise that there was absolutely no violence. Bizarrely I was mistaken for a BBC journalist and whisked up on to the central monument by the students who pleaded with me to "tell the world" of their requests for democracy.

We now have a good Chinese friend who lives locally and only believes what happened because I have given her first hand accounts, though thankfully I missed the clampdown.

I thought 2 Chinese soldiers were killed by the crowd? Or was that just Chinese propaganda/whispers?

Huskaris

Friend Or Defoe said:

Paddy7 said:

That wider picture shows just what lengths the desperate bastards in charge were prepared to go to in putting down what was never an aggressive protest. I was in the square three weeks before the tanks rolled in, and again just two days prior. The swelling in numbers over that period was incredible but again I must emphasise that there was absolutely no violence. Bizarrely I was mistaken for a BBC journalist and whisked up on to the central monument by the students who pleaded with me to "tell the world" of their requests for democracy.

We now have a good Chinese friend who lives locally and only believes what happened because I have given her first hand accounts, though thankfully I missed the clampdown.

I thought 2 Chinese soldiers were killed by the crowd? Or was that just Chinese propaganda/whispers?

Pretty sure that was once it all kicked off?

Can't expect them to take a beating lying down.

Friend Or Defoe

Huskaris said:

Friend Or Defoe said:

Paddy7 said:

That wider picture shows just what lengths the desperate bastards in charge were prepared to go to in putting down what was never an aggressive protest. I was in the square three weeks before the tanks rolled in, and again just two days prior. The swelling in numbers over that period was incredible but again I must emphasise that there was absolutely no violence. Bizarrely I was mistaken for a BBC journalist and whisked up on to the central monument by the students who pleaded with me to "tell the world" of their requests for democracy.

We now have a good Chinese friend who lives locally and only believes what happened because I have given her first hand accounts, though thankfully I missed the clampdown.

I thought 2 Chinese soldiers were killed by the crowd? Or was that just Chinese propaganda/whispers?

Pretty sure that was once it all kicked off?

Can't expect them to take a beating lying down.

That was my understanding as well.

seth plum

Solidgone said:

Did anyone else go an see Chimerica....it was a fantastic play about the bag/tank man.

I saw the World Premier, a devoted Addick was quite heavily involved in the production.

cantersaddick

It is widely believed that tank man was imprisoned and later killed by the communist party!

DRAddick

cantersaddick said:

It is widely believed that tank man was imprisoned and later killed by the communist party!

That's always going to be a natural assumption but he's never actually been identified so people can check has he?

Ormiston_Addick

The story behind Tianamen is very interesting in terms of the dynamics of the situation.

There had been tension leading up to the day itself with protests by student organisations and so on, a group of well connected businessmen (some of whom are now among the richest in China) stepped in to act as intermediaries between the students and the State/Party.

I saw an interview with one of these business guys and he said that he told the students that they had made their point and the State/Party had taken note of their grievances but that they should now back off as they were putting the State/Party into a position from which they would have no choice but to crack down through fear of losing control.

Unfortunately the student leaders felt that this really was "the moment" and decided instead to ramp up the protests which was met with instant and brutal retaliation from the State/Party - most of which was unseen but was absolutely horrific.

As people can see from the government response to events in Xinjang the Chinese only have one gear in these events.

soapy_jones

Can the mods please change the title to this thread? Just add (NOT Roland Duchâtelet's fault) at the end.

North Lower Neil

Brave, brave thing that bloke did.

Like to think he was whisked of by people trying to keep him out of trouble and was never identified, but suspect that wasn't what happened.

ShootersHillGuru

China will be one to watch over the coming years. Rapidly expanding economy and the people starting to see the fruits of that growth. How long can the authoritarian regime keep the lid on the aspirations of a consumer society ? I can easily see another revolution there at some point in the medium future.

Ormiston_Addick

ShootersHillGuru said:

China will be one to watch over the coming years. Rapidly expanding economy and the people starting to see the fruits of that growth. How long can the authoritarian regime keep the lid on the aspirations of a consumer society ? I can easily see another revolution there at some point in the medium future.

Its a very, very complex society, if you want a good explanation of how it works you can do worse than read The Party by former FT journalist Richard McGregor - a stunning book.

The tentacles of the party run very deep indeed so there are lots of people with a vested interest in the survival of the regime and very few opportunities for organised opposition to emerge.