Thank you to all who made helpful comments. The task that I didn't do was set to my small group of colleagues and it was completed. I'm also disappointed as the service makes breaches of confidence on a fairly regular basis. Thanks again to those who have been helpful. It is really appreciated.
Sounds like a pretty amateur set up if breaches of confidence are a regular occurrence. Maybe you are better off out of there. Look up 'Street League' or 'Oasis Charitable Trust' who are both charities dealing with NEETS and see if they have a similar role they can offer you in London.
Please don't take this the wrong way mate, but during your probation period you failed to attend compulsory training, had other staff members complete tasks that had been given to you and you breached the confidentiality of one of the youngsters you were there to support.
I'd say you have zero grounds for appeal!
Thanks, I do need to be realistic and I probably needed to hear that.
Sounds like a pretty amateur set up if breaches of confidence are a regular occurrence. Maybe you are better off out of there. Look up 'Street League' or 'Oasis Charitable Trust' who are both charities dealing with NEETS and see if they have a similar role they can offer you in London.
Please don't take this the wrong way mate, but during your probation period you failed to attend compulsory training, had other staff members complete tasks that had been given to you and you breached the confidentiality of one of the youngsters you were there to support.
I'd say you have zero grounds for appeal!
Possibly one of the best posts on here for a while.
Chalk it up to experience and learn from it - you won't be the first or last to make these mistakes
I say stop crying into your pillow about it and find another job. They are looking for a father christmas at Ruxley Garden Center. Failing that they are always after grave diggers. Its a booming trade. People are dying to give you a job....
I say stop crying into your pillow about it and find another job. They are looking for a father christmas at Ruxley Garden Center. Failing that they are always after grave diggers. Its a booming trade. People are dying to give you a job....
There is a member on here who was a father Christmas at that very garden center one year...
I say stop crying into your pillow about it and find another job. They are looking for a father christmas at Ruxley Garden Center. Failing that they are always after grave diggers. Its a booming trade. People are dying to give you a job....
There is a member on here who was a father Christmas at that very garden center one year...
Sometimes wonder that's where the hidden squad players at Charlton end up.
Sorry to hear about the job loss. Always a very difficult and stressful time. At the best try and ensure you can get a somewhat decent reference should it be needed for applying for future jobs.
As others have said, learn from it and look for another job. You don't want that gap of being unemployed to big on the CV. You have some good lifers on here who have offered a chance to PM if your needed advice. Take them up on it. Valuable advice could be gained!
I say stop crying into your pillow about it and find another job. They are looking for a father christmas at Ruxley Garden Center. Failing that they are always after grave diggers. Its a booming trade. People are dying to give you a job....
I'm sure your sensitive and sensible response has gone done really well for someone at a genuinely difficult time. I hope you don't ever come on here looking for some grown up advice
HR spawn of the devil - not there for you, there to make sure the company doesn't get sued and their useless, weak managers don't say the wrong thing (IMHO).
HR spawn of the devil - not there for you, there to make sure the company doesn't get sued and their useless, weak managers don't say the wrong thing (IMHO).
With you 100% on this.
As an employee they don't appear to be of much use however as an employer I find them invaluable. There are always people who will try to take the company for everything they can. In a large company it's easier to hide but in a smaller company such as mine we need to make sure everybody is pulling in the same direction.
HR spawn of the devil - not there for you, there to make sure the company doesn't get sued and their useless, weak managers don't say the wrong thing (IMHO).
With you 100% on this.
As an employee they don't appear to be of much use however as an employer I find them invaluable. There are always people who will try to take the company for everything they can. In a large company it's easier to hide but in a smaller company such as mine we need to make sure everybody is pulling in the same direction.
Just as long as employees are aware of that because HR is sometimes dressed up as something else.
congratulations sw16 addick, let it go, sounds like liberation to me...now find something you enjoy doing, in a place you want to be, around people who have an interest in you and your goals! my axiom is, we are not here for a long time, we are here for a GOOD time! try it:>) i await the "oh, alright for him, he lives in el-lay" etc. responses;)))
If only life was so simple.
I was desperate to train as a Rabbi when I was younger, but the rabbinical school wouldn't have me.
Apparantly you have to be Jewish.
Did the chief Rabbi give you that tip, he normally takes them.
the person who undertakes circumcisions is the Jewish faith is called a moyle (i may have spelt it wrong)
personally, I'd take the personal approach with your line manager via email / letter, and copy in their bosses.
Say just how much you enjoy and want the job, why you think the decision is harsh, and what you've learnt from the highlighted errors (don't play them down).
Set out in short, bullet form what you have learnt and developed in the role so far, what you bring to the role (give an example of something you did well), and what you hope to achieve in the short-term period.
Ask / beg for an extension to the probation for a further 1-3 months to prove your improvement and how you have taken the highlighted challenges on board.
In the meantime, accept in your mind it will probably be rejected, chalk it down to lessons learned for future, and crack on with trying to find something else. Most importantly, try not to get yourself too down about it all.
personally, I'd take the personal approach with your line manager via email / letter, and copy in their bosses.
Say just how much you enjoy and want the job, why you think the decision is harsh, and what you've learnt from the highlighted errors (don't play them down).
Set out in short, bullet form what you have learnt and developed in the role so far, what you bring to the role (give an example of something you did well), and what you hope to achieve in the short-term period.
Ask / beg for an extension to the probation for a further 1-3 months to prove your improvement and how you have taken the highlighted challenges on board.
In the meantime, accept in your mind it will probably be rejected, chalk it down to lessons learned for future, and crack on with trying to find something else. Most importantly, try not to get yourself too down about it all.
good luck
Thanks, that's really helpful. I've got to appeal as I love the job and if I end up at Sainsbury's (my previous employer) again, I'll regret not giving it a go (no offence to anyone at Sainsbury's but this was my dream job!). I'll appeal and will let you all know how I get on although I'm not expecting anything. I'll use all the points you've highlighted. One thing I'd like to ask though is whether it's OK to accept and own up to my failure whilst pointing out that others have made the same mistakes and have passed probation only a week ago which just seems unfair? I'll try not to take up much more of your time but you've all been really helpful.
As others have said decisions on this are normally heavily influenced by your line manager so I don't think it would be a good idea to point out that they have overlooked similar instances with others recently. That will just get their back up and you are unlikely to know the full background to that decision anyway. At absolute best you could perhaps mention that you misinterpreted the culture around the organisation which led to you believing you were not acting inappropriately but accept that this was an error on your part.
TBH I'd stay clear all together of pointing out mistakes by others and concentrate on what you did well and what you have learned.
In the interests of natural justice and to comply with employment legislation in relation to dismissal, the employee has a right of appeal against dismissal.
The appeal by the employee should be registered within 7 working days of receipt of the written confirmation of the dismissal. The appeal should be sent to the relevant Head of Service/Chief Officer who authorised the dismissal.
Upon receipt of an appeal, HR Services will arrange for the Chief Executive to hear the appeal. The employee remains dismissed pending the outcome of any appeal.
An appeal meeting will be arranged where the employee and the line manager each have the opportunity to state their case. The Chief Executive hearing the case will then inform both parties of their decision, which will be confirmed in writing. No further right of appeal exists.
personally, I'd take the personal approach with your line manager via email / letter, and copy in their bosses.
Say just how much you enjoy and want the job, why you think the decision is harsh, and what you've learnt from the highlighted errors (don't play them down).
Set out in short, bullet form what you have learnt and developed in the role so far, what you bring to the role (give an example of something you did well), and what you hope to achieve in the short-term period.
Ask / beg for an extension to the probation for a further 1-3 months to prove your improvement and how you have taken the highlighted challenges on board.
In the meantime, accept in your mind it will probably be rejected, chalk it down to lessons learned for future, and crack on with trying to find something else. Most importantly, try not to get yourself too down about it all.
good luck
Thanks, that's really helpful. I've got to appeal as I love the job and if I end up at Sainsbury's (my previous employer) again, I'll regret not giving it a go (no offence to anyone at Sainsbury's but this was my dream job!). I'll appeal and will let you all know how I get on although I'm not expecting anything. I'll use all the points you've highlighted. One thing I'd like to ask though is whether it's OK to accept and own up to my failure whilst pointing out that others have made the same mistakes and have passed probation only a week ago which just seems unfair? I'll try not to take up much more of your time but you've all been really helpful.
I think it won't help to own up to failures saying others do it - they will say this is about you. I think you need to challenge but not aggressively the buying task saying it was definitely a team task, not specifically given to you and that you were aware it was in hand etc... The failure to attend the training - you just have to apologise for and say it was an organisational error and you have learned from it and can promise it won't happen again. The breach of confidentiality is another one you have to apologise for. I think you have to apologise, say you were inexperienced and have again learned from it. Put yourself at their mercy. If you say the person didn't mind - you wil lbe digging a hole for yourself.
Whether fair or not - they have grounds to terminate your probabtion so you have to hope you can persuade them that these are lessons you have learned from and you can promise them that if they extended your probation, there would be no repeat. They may not relish having to go through another recruitment so soon. Tell them how much the job means to you. They probably won't change their mind, but you are totally at their mercy by the sounds of it. So that is what you need to play up to.
Hi everyone, thanks for being really supportive. I got some great advice and I really appreciate that although a lot on this site is banter (which I love, many of you have received numerous 'LOLs' from me), I was able to be vulnerable and except for a few people, you didn't ridicule me and tried took time to help! I love that although this is a football forum, you guys were there to offer advice on a personal issue.
I appealed against my dismissal and attended a hearing but was told that the initial decision to let me go was being upheld. So I'm still unemployed and signing on on Friday but everything is positive. As a wise man once said, "we move on".
@Addick in SW16 - you did the right thing to appeal as you can now rest assured that you did all you could to keep your job. There is always the chance that another manager would view things differently and accept mitigation in defence.
Just a more general note from some of the other posters to this thread.
An appeal is not a legal challenge - it is part of an internal disciplinary procedure where, thankfully, lawyers have no sway.
Spending 500k on an unfair dismissal claim? You're having a laugh! Unless you're appointing a top silk but even then. If I defend a claim I tend to spend £6-10k max. And costs are very rarely awarded at Employment Tribunals. The maximum award for ordinary unfair dismissal is around £75k (average for successful claims around £4k) unless discrimination against a protected characteristic or act was the reason for the dismissal - in which case there is no upper limit. As others have said, 2 years service is required for ordinary unfair dismissal but any discrimination involved has no minimum service requirement.
Human Resources are not there to protect employees or to be their advocates - that's what unions are for. HR is a business function that represents the business.
@Henry Irving - the best are not all consultants :P Although I did consult for a number of years!
I say stop crying into your pillow about it and find another job. They are looking for a father christmas at Ruxley Garden Center. Failing that they are always after grave diggers. Its a booming trade. People are dying to give you a job....
Thanks for the great advice @MSE7. I like Father Christmas as he spreads so much joy. I haven't actually considered grave digging as yet but it sounds interesting. If I take it up could you be my first client?
I say stop crying into your pillow about it and find another job. They are looking for a father christmas at Ruxley Garden Center. Failing that they are always after grave diggers. Its a booming trade. People are dying to give you a job....
Thanks for the great advice @MSE7. I like Father Christmas as he spreads so much joy. I haven't actually considered grave digging as yet but it sounds interesting. If I take it up could you be my first client?
Comments
Chalk it up to experience and learn from it - you won't be the first or last to make these mistakes
Sorry to hear about the job loss. Always a very difficult and stressful time. At the best try and ensure you can get a somewhat decent reference should it be needed for applying for future jobs.
As others have said, learn from it and look for another job. You don't want that gap of being unemployed to big on the CV. You have some good lifers on here who have offered a chance to PM if your needed advice. Take them up on it. Valuable advice could be gained!
Wish you all the best.
I hope you don't ever come on here looking for some grown up advice
personally, I'd take the personal approach with your line manager via email / letter, and copy in their bosses.
Say just how much you enjoy and want the job, why you think the decision is harsh, and what you've learnt from the highlighted errors (don't play them down).
Set out in short, bullet form what you have learnt and developed in the role so far, what you bring to the role (give an example of something you did well), and what you hope to achieve in the short-term period.
Ask / beg for an extension to the probation for a further 1-3 months to prove your improvement and how you have taken the highlighted challenges on board.
In the meantime, accept in your mind it will probably be rejected, chalk it down to lessons learned for future, and crack on with trying to find something else. Most importantly, try not to get yourself too down about it all.
good luck
TBH I'd stay clear all together of pointing out mistakes by others and concentrate on what you did well and what you have learned.
11. Appeal against dismissal
In the interests of natural justice and to comply with employment legislation in relation to dismissal, the employee has a right of appeal against dismissal.
The appeal by the employee should be registered within 7 working days of receipt of the written confirmation of the dismissal. The appeal should be sent to the relevant Head of Service/Chief Officer who authorised the dismissal.
Upon receipt of an appeal, HR Services will arrange for the Chief Executive to hear the appeal. The employee remains dismissed pending the outcome of any appeal.
An appeal meeting will be arranged where the employee and the line manager each have the opportunity to state their case. The Chief Executive hearing the case will then inform both parties of their decision, which will be confirmed in writing. No further right of appeal exists.
Whether fair or not - they have grounds to terminate your probabtion so you have to hope you can persuade them that these are lessons you have learned from and you can promise them that if they extended your probation, there would be no repeat. They may not relish having to go through another recruitment so soon. Tell them how much the job means to you. They probably won't change their mind, but you are totally at their mercy by the sounds of it. So that is what you need to play up to.
I appealed against my dismissal and attended a hearing but was told that the initial decision to let me go was being upheld. So I'm still unemployed and signing on on Friday but everything is positive. As a wise man once said, "we move on".
Use it as a life experience.
You have learned from it (I hope).
Onwards and upwards from here, think about how to address the question of why you left the company in any future interviews.
Being prepared for such a question could just be the difference between you and another applicant who has been let go from a job in the past.
@Addick in SW16 - you did the right thing to appeal as you can now rest assured that you did all you could to keep your job. There is always the chance that another manager would view things differently and accept mitigation in defence.
Just a more general note from some of the other posters to this thread.
An appeal is not a legal challenge - it is part of an internal disciplinary procedure where, thankfully, lawyers have no sway.
Spending 500k on an unfair dismissal claim? You're having a laugh! Unless you're appointing a top silk but even then. If I defend a claim I tend to spend £6-10k max. And costs are very rarely awarded at Employment Tribunals. The maximum award for ordinary unfair dismissal is around £75k (average for successful claims around £4k) unless discrimination against a protected characteristic or act was the reason for the dismissal - in which case there is no upper limit. As others have said, 2 years service is required for ordinary unfair dismissal but any discrimination involved has no minimum service requirement.
Human Resources are not there to protect employees or to be their advocates - that's what unions are for. HR is a business function that represents the business.
@Henry Irving - the best are not all consultants :P Although I did consult for a number of years!