Is it normal procedure to ask the family of a patient whether or not, if it came to it whether you'd want them resuscitated? If a) the patient, although Very ill is not necessarily terminal, b) the patient is able to speak for themselves and c) there is no DNR.
0
Comments
It should always be discussed with the patient and family.
We accepted the medics judgement.
Thanks all.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2729332/Do-want-let-die-Question-nurses-home-visits-told-ask-elderly-patients-just-met.html
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/17/hospital-patient-rights-do-not-resuscitate-addenbrookes
My father was starved and given nothing to drink. I asked why and was told that he was being prepared for an operation later. Fair enough I thought. However this went on for 3 days with no operation when he then died.
Liverpool Care Pathway by the back door in other words. It didn't matter what we thought as a family they were going to kill him anyway.
In the case of my step father they simply left him on the floor all night with a fractured hip after he fell out of bed. He died some days later too.
Watch your relative like a hawk and trust nobody in hospital.
I know.
In this case patient is 73 years old, has TB and lost loads of weight regardless of antibiotics went down to 6.5 stone, she is 5'10" so very thin, she was admitted after a secondary infection got to her lungs. She is conscious and is speaking although is very ill, she is on 24hour oxygen and is too weak to walk at the moment. This doesn't mean she is going to die though and I found it quite disturbing that they were asking these questions whilst she was able to think and speak for herself, surely if she wanted a DNR she would have asked for one. They also said it to every relative as if they knew something was going to happen. Hence why I asked if it is normal, maybe they just do that when they think the patient is going to die?
I do think, no matter how angry you are, that it is unfair to suggest Health Care Staff kill people, can't be bothered to help them if they are old, and are untrustworthy.
Hospitals are now especially careful to seek patients and relatives opinion about such a sensitive issue and rightly so. Resuscitation is a brutal process and likely to lead to broken bones and teeth. Not all people want themselves,or their relatives to go through that .
I think that the care pathway mentioned is a different issue to do not resuscitate.
I can understand those who work for the NHS defending it but I can only speak from my own experience.
Suffice to say that I hope I drop dead when my time comes so they don't get their hands on me.
Before anyone complains about care, look at why it is in the state it is, and would anyone here place themselves in the shooting gallery for their salary
Noam Chomsky,
You may consider that to be a "cheap shot" I do not.
I hope to God for your sake that your relatives do not suffer similarly. If they do I wonder how magnaminous about our "wonderful NHS" you will be then?
I only commented on this thread to warn how people can be treated from my own experience as a question had been asked.
You can take it or leave it that's your choice but DO NOT tell me I'm taking a "cheap shot" after what my family went through!
How many other times have you experienced good care in hospital though?
I understand people, and particularly your examples given have terrible, unforgivable experiences, but to tar all as untrustworthy is not right.
Heaven forbid it happens Len, but if one of your loved ones had an accident or medical episode, what would you do?
However millions of people are given excellent care by the NHS throughout thier life .
My father had dementia and was afforded excellent care throughout, including a dignified death. My Grandfather died last year with his family surrounding him and the care was superb.
My father had cancer in 1960 and it was terminal - He was the second person to be treated with Radium in South Eastt Kent ( the machine is in the Science museum!) and he lived to be 85. My Grandfather lived to be 96 and had considerable amount of support and a couple of operations ( aged 93) and was able to live in his own home until a few weeks before he died.
Your comments are obviously made from justifiable anger, but what you have said slanders every decent Midwife, GP, Health Visitor, Paramedic, Community Nurse, Radiograpther, OT, Doctor and HCW in the country.
I did say higher up the thread that I can understand those who work for the NHS will wish to defend it but that I could only speak from my own experience.
Thus we should agree to disagree. I got involved to make Sadie aware and watchful of what can and does happen to elderly relatives from my own experience. People can take note or ignore as they choose.
My experiences are by no means unique and if I didn't find just recalling what has happened so upsetting I would google and prove it, even going to the trouble of finding reports in The Guardian, as other, easier to access information, is demeaned on Charlton Life as the "wrong type" of source and thus dismissed.
However, and I've posted long enough on here that I should have predicted that it would happen, a sanctimonious Charlton Life Twat chose to demean and devalue the horrific circumstances behind the deaths of two of my relatives by describing them as a "cheap shot." Sorry the NHS might be a Sacred Cow that some consider that we are not allowed to criticise but I was not going to stand by and take that.
Did I complain? No. I wanted to believe me but for complicated reasons (there's a clue in the word "step") I was not the official next of kin in either case. The attitude of the rest of the family in both cases was "complaining won't bring him back" which is obviously an indisputable fact. I thus felt the need to respect the wishes of other family members outweighed my own opinions.
Both of the deceased put the rest of the family before themselves so in my eyes that was a justifiable position for me to take even though, on days like today when accused of a "cheap shot," I sometimes wish I had complained.
I had no wish to air my personal circumstances to this extent on here and part of me is tempted to edit my postings from this thread but another part thinks it important to speak out.
People can make up their own minds.
I think everyone agrees that what happened in those two instances was unacceptable, but I am sure that the number of patients who receive very good care far outweighs those who dont.
It is the relative rareness of those instances that grabs the attention, undoing the general good work of the NHS - like eating seafood and then on one occasion falling ill and stating 'seafood doesn't agree with me' (probably not the best example, granted)
Am I biased? - yes, my wife left banking after 22 years to become a nurse and qualified in March this year at the age of 42 after 4 years of training (and knocking out 2 kids in the process). I see the effort and toll the job takes out of her, doing 12 hour shifts in A&E only to be tarred with the same brush when someone has a bad experience. It is that generalisation that people are taking umbrage at.
Myself of my family and friends ( including my late father and Grandfather ) worked / do work in the NHS - my eldest daughter has just qualified as a midwife. I guess you are right about feeling a little defensive.
However I don't think the NHS should be above criticism at all and those who work in are not backward in criticising it believe me! Neither should poor care or staff be tolerated at all - ever.
The sort of care you have described unfortunately does happen sometimes and should be highlighted and stopped. Most NHS staff do care deeply and would be angry to hear of your relatives experiences and of the awful memories it has left you
I can really understand why you are angry and think that perhaps we would all feel shades of the same if it was one of our nearest and dearest.
I am very sorry to hear about your experience Len. It makes me feel embarrassed to read about it.
I can understand fully why you hold your views but let me say that I can be 100% certain that the vast vast majority of Health care workers would feel just as I do and like me take pride in the job they do and the level of care we provide.
It sickens me to hear the lying politicians telling the people of this country that there have been no cuts to the health service budget. In realty staffing levels and morale are lower than ever before. The NHS is being strangled and many front line services are really not able to cope. Of course the quality will suffer but the care provided should not.
I will not attempt to bore you with an exact example from my own area but the British public are being led up the garden path.
I am not blaming them for her death, the TB and secondary infection had damaged her lungs too badly and she was a 6 stone skeleton, but whatever happened to showing compassion to relatives? Some pre-warning would have been good or even some sympathy on arrival, when I got there an hour or so later, their were still no nurses offering sympathy, one nurse just abruptly said when we were leaving " make sure you take all of her belongings because we 're taking her to the mortuary" we removed her jewellery and we covered her up, the room was right next to the nurses station and we saw at least half a dozen nurses as we were leaving, not one said "I'm sorry".
Before anyone says this is not a dig at the NHS, just Queen Elizabeth Hospital ward 14.
My Mum is in 15b at the moment. Some of the care has been good but some the Hospital will be hearing about.
The sorriest thing that has happened though is some c*nts nicked her glasses.
Staff have worked under too much pressure for too long. The entire process dehumanises people and it is important to understand how and why it happens. The NHS has all but disappeared and in its place come greedy people wanting to make a profit. There are many casualties of this privatisation, don't knock people for speaking out, the next hapless victim might be you or a member of your family.