We have gone through this many times like it or not gazza chooses to drink as a way to deal with his mental issues he has declined and turned his back on help, thrown it in the face of everyone who has helped him
Mental illness is not a lifestyle choice that is correct
Gazza drinking is a life style choice
He is a pathetic hopeless alcoholic who almost has mental issues and demons that stem from a long way back Many people have mental issues and not all turn to alcohol or drugs
Paul can't be treated for his mental issues until he stops drinking the problem Is he chooses his own medication for his illness and that's alcohol
That just makes the issue worse
I once had this discussion with a medic and she said categorically that alcoholism is a disease. So Gazza is in effect unable to choose to not drink, if you get what I mean.
Alcoholics can be treated to stop drinking therefore there is a choice
Although I don't disagree that addiction is or can be perceived as an illness as with virtually all illnesses there is a cure the problem is its a choice
I really struggle with the the whole 'alcoholism is a disease' thing. I find it really hard to put it in the same bracket as cancer for example. You don't choose to get cancer, you choose to buy, open and drink a bottle though.
My mum was an alcoholic for close to 20 years until it contributed significantly to her death a couple of years ago. She had the most support and understanding she could wish for from my dad, sister myself and family and friends but always turned back to drink. I hate myself for thinking she was bloody selfish because I loved her so much but nobody can tell me it's not a choice. It is.
There are plenty of people who get over their addiction problems - they have to want to.
I used to struggle with the "its a disease" thing too, but having learned more about the subject I can now also understand that for some sufferers it is often more complex than 'making a choice'. Many are so far down the road that chemicals and physiological factors lead to them feeling like they need to drink, take drugs etc.
I don't think there is a definitive answer to "its a choice" or "its a disease". Everybody reacts differently to different things, both physically and mentally.
Quite possibly Tom. I can only speak from my experience and I did a lot of reading myself.
Mum dipped in and out of AA and things like that and she was by no means a denier of her problem but I always felt she could've tried harder.
Maybe that makes me heartless and unsympathetic to the complexities of alcoholism but I know, I really do, she could've stopped and still been here now.
Makes me angry, disappointed, sad, reflective every day.
I've always had a lot of time for Gazza. A sublime footballer. The best we've had for England for many a year. I just feel he has not been able to mature/grow up. Mental demons I'm afraid.
Alcoholics can be treated to stop drinking therefore there is a choice
Although I don't disagree that addiction is or can be perceived as an illness as with virtually all illnesses there is a cure the problem is its a choice
If you ask most medical professionals who have experience in treating alcoholism they will tell you that it is a disease and not a choice. I'll take their years of research and experience over your opinion.
what you're saying is akin to telling a depressed person it's their choice to be depressed.
I feel as though alcoholism is far more complex than simply saying "it is a disease" or "it is a lifestyle choice" and very few of us, myself included, have enough knowledge to make a claim one way or another.
Like many threads this is going down the path of absolute truth... Black and white etc. Without researching it I suspect that a large proportion of people classified with high or extreme alcohol intake either have or had the choice to cut back or stop. I've known alcoholics who found the life of abstention and 12 steps very boring and opted back onto the booze. You can take this all back to a determinism vs free will debate to cover the whole of humanity... Having said all that I do love the famous quote from the hotel worker going into George Best's hotel room... On seeing him in bed with a bottle of champagne and Miss world the guy asks George "so where did it all go wrong?"!
And I will take the years of my own watching and learning of an alcoholic slowly killing themselves then dealing with what's leftvbehind over any doctor that tells me that it's an illness that makes you purchase open and pour something down your neck
It's a choice the choice to do it or not to and the weak minded selfish people who can not cope with such a choice
You choose to do it, no one forces you its not a disease it turns into a craving a need to drink so it doesn't hurt but it's your choice to do so
And I will take the years of my own watching and learning of an alcoholic slowly killing themselves then dealing with what's leftvbehind over any doctor that tells me that it's an illness that makes you purchase open and pour something down your neck
It's a choice the choice to do it or not to and the weak minded selfish people who can not cope with such a choice
You choose to do it, no one forces you its not a disease it turns into a craving a need to drink so it doesn't hurt but it's your choice to do so
Sorry NLA, I have to disagree with you there. You're applying your standards and mentality to another person's life and that's why you see it as a choice. To other people affected by it though it's not so simple. I lived with an alcoholic in the past few years and I watched him go from a good friend to an unpleasant, miserable drunk. I spent a lot of time being angry at him for his choices but the reality is that alcohol is a crutch for some people, and when faced with a difficult time they turn to the thing that supports them. And with alcohol in just about every shop on the street it's all too easy for them to fall into that trap, especially when they don't have the support they need or something terrible happens in their life. Yes, some deal with it better than others but dismissing it as selfish is wrong, just in the same way it's wrong to call people with depression who take their own lives selfish. Mental illnesses eat away at the mind. Everyone will have their own interpretation of the factors involved but it is a disease and it should be treated as one.
And I will take the years of my own watching and learning of an alcoholic slowly killing themselves then dealing with what's leftvbehind over any doctor that tells me that it's an illness that makes you purchase open and pour something down your neck
It's a choice the choice to do it or not to and the weak minded selfish people who can not cope with such a choice
You choose to do it, no one forces you its not a disease it turns into a craving a need to drink so it doesn't hurt but it's your choice to do so
Sorry to read that and I respect your viewpoint. The medic I spoke to was essentially saying that once an alcoholic reaches a certain point then their physical body becomes dependent on the intake of alcohol. She said they therefore have to try and fix that situation with medication, as the person is incapable of doing so themselves.
But, to agree with your point, I can see how any people who get cured by medics, but then choose to re-open the bottle and go back on the booze are in some ways making a selfish choice, especially if they have family.
In my eyes the are weak minded selfish people who turn their back on pure love of their family or friends to the pure love of just to drink
Normally caused by a deep long standing mental illness ( that's the sick or disease part) the drink and alcohol that they choose as their crutch or their medication can be replaced it's been proven and it works the hundreds/thousands or recovering alcoholics bear testament to this
An alcoholic is a selfish individual who puts their own need for alcohol over the ability to not drink
The mind is the part that needs repairing but until they choose to stop drinking it can't be repaired
If you look at rehab you can leave when you want if you didn't leave you wouldn't be able to drink therefore you are able to have deep psychological Care
Those who are to weak to do that leave and get drunk
They choose to leave they choose to drink
That's not an illness, that's a choice a selfish choice
Yes it hurts not drinking yes it can seem like you are dying
I have a lot of sympathy with those on both sides of the Alcoholic problem - namely the Alcoholic themself and those nearest and dearest who suffer as a result.
I don't think it's a black and white issue to be honest - no one situation or person is identical.
Certainly an alcoholic destroys their own life and often that of their family in the process. An alcoholic can be cured but of course that won't apply to every person in that situation - folk like Gazza probably are in the incurable category.
A lot of addictive behaviours are down to low self esteem and / or depression. Such underlying issues are not always easy to resolve and when an addictive behaviour takes away the pain of those issues - even temporarily - it makes it a hard nut to crack.
I don't like what alcoholism does to both the alcoholic and their family. Seeing Gazza in that state is heart breaking when you consider the brilliance he showed on the pitch. It is a total waste of a life. If he can't be cured then rather than being hard on him the poor bastard needs some compassion. I doubt he really wants to be like he is now - but I don't think he has the self belief and mental strength to get dry and then stay that way.
Suspect his talent may be his undoing. Had he been a normal bloke I suspect someone would have told him not to be such a self pitying prick. Read his book and I found it ridiculous that he attributed his dreadful behaviours on sad events like a cousin dying, or jimmy five bellies uncle dying. It is all to absolve him because basically he liked getting hammered and doing what he fancied. Because of who he was everyone just tolerated it. If it had nene any of us you'd hope a friend would put his arm round you, tell you to stop being a cnt and point out that many people deal with far worse. But he got to wallow in it. Now he's on the way out and all the hangers on have long since left him to it.
In my eyes the are weak minded selfish people who turn their back on pure love of their family or friends to the pure love of just to drink
Normally caused by a deep long standing mental illness ( that's the sick or disease part) the drink and alcohol that they choose as their crutch or their medication can be replaced it's been proven and it works the hundreds/thousands or recovering alcoholics bear testament to this
An alcoholic is a selfish individual who puts their own need for alcohol over the ability to not drink
The mind is the part that needs repairing but until they choose to stop drinking it can't be repaired
If you look at rehab you can leave when you want if you didn't leave you wouldn't be able to drink therefore you are able to have deep psychological Care
Those who are to weak to do that leave and get drunk
They choose to leave they choose to drink
That's not an illness, that's a choice a selfish choice
Yes it hurts not drinking yes it can seem like you are dying
But your not
Yeah but sometimes it's the sick mind telling them to drink because at the time that seems like the best option as it makes them feel better. That's how I believe it all starts and then it all follows on.
Gazza's problems seem far worse than George Best's. Best managed to maintain a semblence of a decent life for much of his post retirement period, whereas Gazza's life has been pitiful and tragic really
Gazza's problems seem far worse than George Best's. Best managed to maintain a semblence of a decent life for much of his post retirement period, whereas Gazza's life has been pitiful and tragic really
Even seeing Best's interview last night from 2004 on the MOTD show, could never actually imagine Gazza being able to articulate himself like that even when apparently sober. I hope he seeks help again, it is never too late.
Alcoholics can be treated to stop drinking therefore there is a choice
Although I don't disagree that addiction is or can be perceived as an illness as with virtually all illnesses there is a cure the problem is its a choice
If you ask most medical professionals who have experience in treating alcoholism they will tell you that it is a disease and not a choice. I'll take their years of research and experience over your opinion.
what you're saying is akin to telling a depressed person it's their choice to be depressed.
Trouble with Gaza is yes he could keep going to rehab but every time he comes out his so called circle of friends, family and hangers on will no doubt lead him down that same path every time!
Gazza's problems seem far worse than George Best's. Best managed to maintain a semblence of a decent life for much of his post retirement period, whereas Gazza's life has been pitiful and tragic really
Best was a far, far more intelligent and articulate man than Gascoigne.
Best also had a very firm grasp of his situation and where he was headed, in the end he chose to carry on drinking but tried to space out the benders as best he could.
By contrast Gazza goes from abstention to benders time after time, tragic and heartbreaking but only he can save himself.
Alcoholics can be treated to stop drinking therefore there is a choice
Although I don't disagree that addiction is or can be perceived as an illness as with virtually all illnesses there is a cure the problem is its a choice
If you ask most medical professionals who have experience in treating alcoholism they will tell you that it is a disease and not a choice. I'll take their years of research and experience over your opinion.
what you're saying is akin to telling a depressed person it's their choice to be depressed.
Trouble with Gaza is yes he could keep going to rehab but every time he comes out his so called circle of friends, family and hangers on will no doubt lead him down that same path every time!
Sorry, could you explain with evidence, which family members or friends are leading Gascoigne down the same path every time. A genuine question, as I don't know what you are talking about.
I grant you about 15 years ago, that may have been the case with Chris Evans, Danny Baker & Jimmy 5 bellies, but I'm not aware in the most recent times, when Gazza started to "fall apart". In fact I believe many of his friends including Chris Evans have paid for him to go in to rehab.
Comments
Although I don't disagree that addiction is or can be perceived as an illness as with virtually all illnesses there is a cure the problem is its a choice
My mum was an alcoholic for close to 20 years until it contributed significantly to her death a couple of years ago. She had the most support and understanding she could wish for from my dad, sister myself and family and friends but always turned back to drink. I hate myself for thinking she was bloody selfish because I loved her so much but nobody can tell me it's not a choice. It is.
There are plenty of people who get over their addiction problems - they have to want to.
We can all pretend it's not so as tbh that's a kinder more understanding way
When ultimately gazza is choosing to kill himself
It's sad it's a terrible shame as folks like you and others suffer the most
Its a tragic situation that borders on pathetic yet sympathetic
Tragic really.
I don't think there is a definitive answer to "its a choice" or "its a disease". Everybody reacts differently to different things, both physically and mentally.
Mum dipped in and out of AA and things like that and she was by no means a denier of her problem but I always felt she could've tried harder.
Maybe that makes me heartless and unsympathetic to the complexities of alcoholism but I know, I really do, she could've stopped and still been here now.
Makes me angry, disappointed, sad, reflective every day.
A sad situation, which probably won't end well.
what you're saying is akin to telling a depressed person it's their choice to be depressed.
You can take this all back to a determinism vs free will debate to cover the whole of humanity...
Having said all that I do love the famous quote from the hotel worker going into George Best's hotel room... On seeing him in bed with a bottle of champagne and Miss world the guy asks George "so where did it all go wrong?"!
It's a choice the choice to do it or not to and the weak minded selfish people who can not cope with such a choice
You choose to do it, no one forces you its not a disease it turns into a craving a need to drink so it doesn't hurt but it's your choice to do so
But, to agree with your point, I can see how any people who get cured by medics, but then choose to re-open the bottle and go back on the booze are in some ways making a selfish choice, especially if they have family.
In my eyes the are weak minded selfish people who turn their back on pure love of their family or friends to the pure love of just to drink
Normally caused by a deep long standing mental illness ( that's the sick or disease part) the drink and alcohol that they choose as their crutch or their medication can be replaced it's been proven and it works the hundreds/thousands or recovering alcoholics bear testament to this
An alcoholic is a selfish individual who puts their own need for alcohol over the ability to not drink
The mind is the part that needs repairing but until they choose to stop drinking it can't be repaired
If you look at rehab you can leave when you want if you didn't leave you wouldn't be able to drink therefore you are able to have deep psychological Care
Those who are to weak to do that leave and get drunk
They choose to leave they choose to drink
That's not an illness, that's a choice a selfish choice
Yes it hurts not drinking yes it can seem like you are dying
But your not
I don't think it's a black and white issue to be honest - no one situation or person is identical.
Certainly an alcoholic destroys their own life and often that of their family in the process. An alcoholic can be cured but of course that won't apply to every person in that situation - folk like Gazza probably are in the incurable category.
A lot of addictive behaviours are down to low self esteem and / or depression. Such underlying issues are not always easy to resolve and when an addictive behaviour takes away the pain of those issues - even temporarily - it makes it a hard nut to crack.
I don't like what alcoholism does to both the alcoholic and their family. Seeing Gazza in that state is heart breaking when you consider the brilliance he showed on the pitch. It is a total waste of a life.
If he can't be cured then rather than being hard on him the poor bastard needs some compassion. I doubt he really wants to be like he is now - but I don't think he has the self belief and mental strength to get dry and then stay that way.
But at times that compassion is as complicit in the behaviour
Best also had a very firm grasp of his situation and where he was headed, in the end he chose to carry on drinking but tried to space out the benders as best he could.
By contrast Gazza goes from abstention to benders time after time, tragic and heartbreaking but only he can save himself.
I grant you about 15 years ago, that may have been the case with Chris Evans, Danny Baker & Jimmy 5 bellies, but I'm not aware in the most recent times, when Gazza started to "fall apart". In fact I believe many of his friends including Chris Evans have paid for him to go in to rehab.
m.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/13904142.Gazza_due_in_court_over_harassment_charges/
It's really not going to end well for Gazza.