I find it ironic that people have the knives out for the English team at the moment. Talks of boycotts and protests are futile IMO.
It's the premier league that have done the damage to our national team and most of the blame should be fired in their direction if you ask me.
i am curious as to why the EPL has supposedly damaged the England team ?
Simply because of the lack of English players playing in it.
Ridiculous excuse. If talented players are being frozen out, how come they don't forge careers in other leagues? French players have far less protection in terms of work permits than Brits do. What many of them do is develop in leagues away from home. Doesn't seem to occur to them. The reason it's not a good team is because the players are shit. They're not shit because some bleeding foreigners got their job, they're shit because they're shit. Like fat mouth breathers blaming immigration for them not being able to get jobs, when the real reason is lack of talent and lack of effort.
England games as a kid (70's). Sent tingles down your spine. We are so saturated with coverage nowadays it's a bloody shame we get shown up time again by better players, better systems and better coaching.
so a league that only has 22% of players registered from its host country--this has no affect on the quality of its national team ? ---------wot utter boollox.
I thought it was closer to 40%. Either way like I said it is shown with the performances at major tournaments since the PL started that it hasn't made a difference. If anything it has improved the national team. We've made more quarter finals than the previous 18 years from the sample I showed, the team's overall win percentage is higher and our so called golden generation came about at possibly the height of the PL era. I believe the reason is that the best players will rise to the top regardless of what nationality is in front of them. Now the real problem is why we are not producing enough quality players, for me that comes down to the coaching of youth. We do not have enough coaches of the required standard, we do not have enough young players playing the game and we do not have enough of the facilities required to nurture and improve the standard of youth football.
As for the current generation. I agree that the team hasn't played well for quite some time. I believe it's just part of the cycle we see in sport. Pretty much every nation or club goes through it in sport, Brazil are going through a poor spell as too are Man Utd, it happens. Unfortunately for us our golden generation was just not good enough to win any tournaments. However, I also believe that there is a good crop coming through at the moment. There appears to be a number of very creative players with excellent attacking ability. However, there still needs to be a complete overhaul of grassroots football.
Wasn't it more difficult to get into a World Cup quarter final back then? 1982 we had a pretty good world cup but got knocked out cos of a ridiculous format. I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with the argument btw, just asking a question.
I thought our performances at the WC were pretty good Roy is doing what many were hoping he would, playing the youngsters and then everyone moans we are not winning! You don't win anything with kids! This team will be ready for the next world cup and then the euros after, its a 4 year plan
so a league that only has 22% of players registered from its host country--this has no affect on the quality of its national team ? ---------wot utter boollox.
I thought it was closer to 40%. Either way like I said it is shown with the performances at major tournaments since the PL started that it hasn't made a difference. If anything it has improved the national team. We've made more quarter finals than the previous 18 years from the sample I showed, the team's overall win percentage is higher and our so called golden generation came about at possibly the height of the PL era. I believe the reason is that the best players will rise to the top regardless of what nationality is in front of them. Now the real problem is why we are not producing enough quality players, for me that comes down to the coaching of youth. We do not have enough coaches of the required standard, we do not have enough young players playing the game and we do not have enough of the facilities required to nurture and improve the standard of youth football.
As for the current generation. I agree that the team hasn't played well for quite some time. I believe it's just part of the cycle we see in sport. Pretty much every nation or club goes through it in sport, Brazil are going through a poor spell as too are Man Utd, it happens. Unfortunately for us our golden generation was just not good enough to win any tournaments. However, I also believe that there is a good crop coming through at the moment. There appears to be a number of very creative players with excellent attacking ability. However, there still needs to be a complete overhaul of grassroots football.
The coaches and facilities are far and away better today than they were in Lineker or Hursts day. I agree you don't see many kids just kicking around in the park amongst themselves,but the amount of sunday league clubs each with 3,4,5 teams of kids of same ages nowadays is phenomenal and far greater than when I played.Add to that the people coaching them are strongly encouraged to take a recognised qualification before they start,and I think it could be said that we have a wonderful set up. It's not the coaching that causes the problems.It's the 'win at all costs' 'scared to make a mistake' culture that has a negative effect at a young age. I still think that we have a lot of good talent in this country but they hit a brick wall the moment they try to get on to the big stage.And yes,I do think the premier league could do more to promote our talent instead of waving the cheque book around at the first sign of trouble.
Someone mentioned that not enough of our players take the plunge and play abroad when it doesn't work out at their club. I agree with that, and think that more of our players playing in a foreign environment would to nothing but help them on the international stage. But when your average prem club is probably willing to pay 4 or 5 times more in wages to get splinters in your arse than any dutch/french/spanish lower league side can pay for regular first team football where is the incentive?
so a league that only has 22% of players registered from its host country--this has no affect on the quality of its national team ? ---------wot utter boollox.
I thought it was closer to 40%. Either way like I said it is shown with the performances at major tournaments since the PL started that it hasn't made a difference. If anything it has improved the national team. We've made more quarter finals than the previous 18 years from the sample I showed, the team's overall win percentage is higher and our so called golden generation came about at possibly the height of the PL era. I believe the reason is that the best players will rise to the top regardless of what nationality is in front of them. Now the real problem is why we are not producing enough quality players, for me that comes down to the coaching of youth. We do not have enough coaches of the required standard, we do not have enough young players playing the game and we do not have enough of the facilities required to nurture and improve the standard of youth football.
As for the current generation. I agree that the team hasn't played well for quite some time. I believe it's just part of the cycle we see in sport. Pretty much every nation or club goes through it in sport, Brazil are going through a poor spell as too are Man Utd, it happens. Unfortunately for us our golden generation was just not good enough to win any tournaments. However, I also believe that there is a good crop coming through at the moment. There appears to be a number of very creative players with excellent attacking ability. However, there still needs to be a complete overhaul of grassroots football.
The coaches and facilities are far and away better today than they were in Lineker or Hursts day. I agree you don't see many kids just kicking around in the park amongst themselves,but the amount of sunday league clubs each with 3,4,5 teams of kids of same ages nowadays is phenomenal and far greater than when I played.Add to that the people coaching them are strongly encouraged to take a recognised qualification before they start,and I think it could be said that we have a wonderful set up. It's not the coaching that causes the problems.It's the 'win at all costs' 'scared to make a mistake' culture that has a negative effect at a young age. I still think that we have a lot of good talent in this country but they hit a brick wall the moment they try to get on to the big stage.And yes,I do think the premier league could do more to promote our talent instead of waving the cheque book around at the first sign of trouble.
Someone mentioned that not enough of our players take the plunge and play abroad when it doesn't work out at their club. I agree with that, and think that more of our players playing in a foreign environment would to nothing but help them on the international stage. But when your average prem club is probably willing to pay 4 or 5 times more in wages to get splinters in your arse than any dutch/french/spanish lower league side can pay for regular first team football where is the incentive?
Yeah good points. I agree coaching has improved, I probably should have said in comparison to the top European countries. I also agree with the mentality and culture in this country. It really shouldn't be a win at all costs at youth level but unfortunately it is. I don't just think it is in youth football either, it's the whole footballing culture in our country. An example is during our match against Derby, sitting there I loved the football we were playing, possession based looking to move the ball with short passing. As a consequence of this the ball will go backwards sometimes and this was where I heard groans and moans from some of our support, they don't seem to see the bigger picture.
Now this isn't a dig at our fans, it goes on across the country. It is slowly changing but as usual we are behind plenty of other countries, for whatever reason we seem unwilling to accept change until it is too late. Like or dislike it this is the way of the footballing world now.
Well the Sven era, I don't particularly like using the term but there were a lot of very good players in that team, just a shame for whatever reason they couldn't play well together.
"If it was my boy I'd think about sending him to Chelsea to have the best coaching from eight to 15 and, if possible, then send him to a club with less resources to try and get him in the first team at 18," he added.
Unfortunately it's the other way around for a lot of players, then as he also says, when at the top clubs they have to go out on loan. Had Kasey Palmer stayed here he'd be in and around the first team now like Gomez. Instead he's still playing for Chelsea u18s.
It's always the same argument from every English footballer though. Coming from someone like Lampard it makes little sense. He played for years at Chelsea, a club well known for going out and purchasing foreign players, yet he still played the vast majority of games and went on to be one of their best ever players. It's nothing to do with chances, if you're good enough you'll play.
Edit - I should add I think he makes a very valid point with this: "Then there's the fact these young lads have to focus and keep their heads when they start to earn very good money.
"They have to realise they haven't made it just because everyone is talking about them at 18."
I think that this is a big problem for youngsters at top clubs, it has to have a negative impact on the desire for these players.
Apparently one of the problems was that the Arsenal players couldn't get on with the Man Utd players, you would think that someone would tell them to grow up.
For all the golden generation talk, people forget that the team was horribly unbalanced by Gerrard and Lampard blundering around in the middle. Needed somone with enough balls to pick one and go with him, time showed that they couldn't play together.
Makes me think we should have regional academies rather than club run academies. As much as I love bringing through talent at charlton. Have a draft like pick, newly promoted sides in the prem gets first pick of youngsters coming through. Then the bigger clubs would have to buy the more talented youngsters if they want them.
Over rated over paid and over pampered players that are given the rewards too early before they earn their predecessors respect.
As soon as an English youngster has a good game, at say a mid table club, the motd lot will discuss whether he can jump straight in the England squad...as.they get all excited about it.
You don't win anything with kids.
Followed by the fact that our "golden generation" have retired too early. Clubs are more important as that's where there more appreciated.
For example, take three of your top clubs: Manchester City, Chelsea, Arsenal (I deliberately picked three which performed very well last season). Theoretically the England manager should have a large reservoir of players to pick from this trio. But - does he really?
For example, take three of your top clubs: Manchester City, Chelsea, Arsenal (I deliberately picked three which performed very well last season). Theoretically the England manager should have a large reservoir of players to pick from this trio. But - does he really?
To be fair, Arsenal do have a fair few now. Gibbs, Walcott, Chamberlain, Wellbeck, Wilshere and Chambers all around the first team. (Jenkinson is on loan too).
For example, take three of your top clubs: Manchester City, Chelsea, Arsenal (I deliberately picked three which performed very well last season). Theoretically the England manager should have a large reservoir of players to pick from this trio. But - does he really?
To be fair, Arsenal do have a fair few now. Gibbs, Walcott, Chamberlain, Wellbeck, Wilshere and Chambers all around the first team. (Jenkinson is on loan too).
Wilshere is an overrated piece of human waste, english messi ... Loooool
The other ones are talented players with a future in the england squad
About the swiss game. Thinking how we are on a downward spiral, how the world cup performances were so gutless, embarrassing and tactically clueless...and how the loyal fans are quite rightly giving up on the side, and how repetitive it has been following the national side over the last 10 years. (partially due to media drivel)
The pathetic use of term, "golden age" that never existed, and the feeling that, based on personality I have more respect for an ant then I do for wayne rooney...the new england captain, by default.
Then I got a strange emotional feeling, a slight goosebump, where I felt quite sad...not just because I was wasting my time thinking about the england team where I had nothing else better to think about, but because we are now so shite and detoriated, that the team needs all the support it can get. They are no longer decent players that cant carry the pressure on their shoulders...its evidently not within them. I dont like any of the players...but I like my country. Thats it. They represent the country on the main stage sporting level of Football...the thing that has historically brought people together.
Supoorting england is not a good deed or a charity...they are all over paid for what they do. Un technical players that run around like 6 year olds with the intellect of hamsters.
(My slightly over exaggerated rant over)...but the pont im making is, watch the game, carry on supporting the team, because we are not big shots anymore (well we never were really) we are crap, and we need support.
England.
well said.
I keep saying to myself don't bother watching the game on the box, you know what's it's gonna be like and you'll only get pissed off. but of course I always do and I always get pissed off.
so I'll say the same for monday nights game and of course I won't listen. I really desperately want to watch a great england performance to raise morale but of course I won't see one and i know I'll be pissed off!
Only just seen this thread, interesting reading. I'm a lot more sympathetic towards the England side at the moment than I was prior to Hodgson. The talent just isn't there at the moment, but the attitude and application is. You couldn't fault the players for effort in the World Cup, and we can consider ourselves unfortunate to have been drawn in such a tough group. Both Italy and Uruguay have better players than us, and we gave both of them a decent game. There's no shame in losing to them. Compare that to the previous World Cup, where a comparatively star-studded squad struggled through a group containing USA, Slovenia and Algeria - I was much prouder of them in defeat against Italy than I was in the turgid 1-0 win against Slovenia at the previous tournament.
There are so many things wrong with the national team set-up at the moment, but the media seems intent on putting all the focus and pressure on the manager and players, rather than examining the root causes of our ongoing history of failure. Leave Hodgson to get on with it and he'll have a chance of getting this side to achieve its potential - it's not his fault that the best this squad is capable of is probably only the quarter-finals of the next Euros. And leave Rooney alone - the media spent years telling us that he was the world class superstar who had take us to glory, and now seem intent on knocking him at every opportunity because he's not as good as they told us he was.
Good performance yesterday against a side with comparable ability. I think it's a shame that we've been drawn in such an easy group - two years without any useful competitive match practice.
Maybe I overestimate us but I do think there's a fair bit of talent in this squad.
What I like is there seems to be a whole lot more camaraderie and team cohesion than previous years. The squad is made up of so many different club representatives, our starting XI v Switzerland were from 7 different clubs, compare that to the days where it was United's Neville, Rio, Scholes, Rooney and Beckham with Chelsea's Terry, A Cole, Lampard, J Cole and Liverpool's Gerrard, Carra and Owen, it's a really nice change.
Obviously I have no idea what the dressing room is like in the England camp but for the quality of players we had we should've done better, and that's because they could never gel or learn to play together.
Perhaps this is because there's less "big names" and the egos that come with them.
Only just seen this thread, interesting reading. I'm a lot more sympathetic towards the England side at the moment than I was prior to Hodgson. The talent just isn't there at the moment, but the attitude and application is. You couldn't fault the players for effort in the World Cup, and we can consider ourselves unfortunate to have been drawn in such a tough group. Both Italy and Uruguay have better players than us, and we gave both of them a decent game. There's no shame in losing to them. Compare that to the previous World Cup, where a comparatively star-studded squad struggled through a group containing USA, Slovenia and Algeria - I was much prouder of them in defeat against Italy than I was in the turgid 1-0 win against Slovenia at the previous tournament.
There are so many things wrong with the national team set-up at the moment, but the media seems intent on putting all the focus and pressure on the manager and players, rather than examining the root causes of our ongoing history of failure. Leave Hodgson to get on with it and he'll have a chance of getting this side to achieve its potential - it's not his fault that the best this squad is capable of is probably only the quarter-finals of the next Euros. And leave Rooney alone - the media spent years telling us that he was the world class superstar who had take us to glory, and now seem intent on knocking him at every opportunity because he's not as good as they told us he was.
Good performance yesterday against a side with comparable ability. I think it's a shame that we've been drawn in such an easy group - two years without any useful competitive match practice.
Very true.
In regards to football, the media basically just exaggerate everything. No purposeful, rational journalism, most of the time.
Comments
As for the current generation. I agree that the team hasn't played well for quite some time. I believe it's just part of the cycle we see in sport. Pretty much every nation or club goes through it in sport, Brazil are going through a poor spell as too are Man Utd, it happens. Unfortunately for us our golden generation was just not good enough to win any tournaments. However, I also believe that there is a good crop coming through at the moment. There appears to be a number of very creative players with excellent attacking ability. However, there still needs to be a complete overhaul of grassroots football.
Roy is doing what many were hoping he would, playing the youngsters and then everyone moans we are not winning! You don't win anything with kids!
This team will be ready for the next world cup and then the euros after, its a 4 year plan
I agree you don't see many kids just kicking around in the park amongst themselves,but the amount of sunday league clubs each with 3,4,5 teams of kids of same ages nowadays is phenomenal and far greater than when I played.Add to that the people coaching them are strongly encouraged to take a recognised qualification before they start,and I think it could be said that we have a wonderful set up. It's not the coaching that causes the problems.It's the 'win at all costs' 'scared to make a mistake' culture that has a negative effect at a young age.
I still think that we have a lot of good talent in this country but they hit a brick wall the moment they try to get on to the big stage.And yes,I do think the premier league could do more to promote our talent instead of waving the cheque book around at the first sign of trouble.
Someone mentioned that not enough of our players take the plunge and play abroad when it doesn't work out at their club. I agree with that, and think that more of our players playing in a foreign environment would to nothing but help them on the international stage. But when your average prem club is probably willing to pay 4 or 5 times more in wages to get splinters in your arse than any dutch/french/spanish lower league side can pay for regular first team football where is the incentive?
Now this isn't a dig at our fans, it goes on across the country. It is slowly changing but as usual we are behind plenty of other countries, for whatever reason we seem unwilling to accept change until it is too late. Like or dislike it this is the way of the footballing world now.
http://www.football365.com/news/21554/9458106/Lampard-Worried-For-England-Future
"If it was my boy I'd think about sending him to Chelsea to have the best coaching from eight to 15 and, if possible, then send him to a club with less resources to try and get him in the first team at 18," he added.
Unfortunately it's the other way around for a lot of players, then as he also says, when at the top clubs they have to go out on loan. Had Kasey Palmer stayed here he'd be in and around the first team now like Gomez. Instead he's still playing for Chelsea u18s.
Edit - I should add I think he makes a very valid point with this:
"Then there's the fact these young lads have to focus and keep their heads when they start to earn very good money.
"They have to realise they haven't made it just because everyone is talking about them at 18."
I think that this is a big problem for youngsters at top clubs, it has to have a negative impact on the desire for these players.
For all the golden generation talk, people forget that the team was horribly unbalanced by Gerrard and Lampard blundering around in the middle. Needed somone with enough balls to pick one and go with him, time showed that they couldn't play together.
As soon as an English youngster has a good game, at say a mid table club, the motd lot will discuss whether he can jump straight in the England squad...as.they get all excited about it.
You don't win anything with kids.
Followed by the fact that our "golden generation" have retired too early. Clubs are more important as that's where there more appreciated.
^ that's only a small fraction of it.
theguardian.com/football/2013/may/23/germany-bust-boom-talent
The other ones are talented players with a future in the england squad
I keep saying to myself don't bother watching the game on the box, you know what's it's gonna be like and you'll only get pissed off. but of course I always do and I always get pissed off.
so I'll say the same for monday nights game and of course I won't listen. I really desperately want to watch a great england performance to raise morale but of course I won't see one and i know I'll be pissed off!
Job done. Simple.
There are so many things wrong with the national team set-up at the moment, but the media seems intent on putting all the focus and pressure on the manager and players, rather than examining the root causes of our ongoing history of failure. Leave Hodgson to get on with it and he'll have a chance of getting this side to achieve its potential - it's not his fault that the best this squad is capable of is probably only the quarter-finals of the next Euros. And leave Rooney alone - the media spent years telling us that he was the world class superstar who had take us to glory, and now seem intent on knocking him at every opportunity because he's not as good as they told us he was.
Good performance yesterday against a side with comparable ability. I think it's a shame that we've been drawn in such an easy group - two years without any useful competitive match practice.
What I like is there seems to be a whole lot more camaraderie and team cohesion than previous years. The squad is made up of so many different club representatives, our starting XI v Switzerland were from 7 different clubs, compare that to the days where it was United's Neville, Rio, Scholes, Rooney and Beckham with Chelsea's Terry, A Cole, Lampard, J Cole and Liverpool's Gerrard, Carra and Owen, it's a really nice change.
Obviously I have no idea what the dressing room is like in the England camp but for the quality of players we had we should've done better, and that's because they could never gel or learn to play together.
Perhaps this is because there's less "big names" and the egos that come with them.
In regards to football, the media basically just exaggerate everything. No purposeful, rational journalism, most of the time.