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Complaints Against Solicitors

edited October 2014 in Not Sports Related
For irrelevant reasons I started work late today and watched part of a morning consumer programme with Gloria Hunniford, Angela Rippon and AN Other presenting it.

There was a bloke in it who complained about the solicitor acting as executor of his father's estate.

Before complaining he asked the Legal Complaints Service, the forerunner of the Solicitors' Regulation Authority (SRA), whether it would cost money to complain and was assured that it would not as that was the raison d'etre of their existence.

Well he duly complained and the solicitor refused to deal with him as he was not the client just a beneficiary of the client. On top of that he billed the bloke £17.5 k for dealing with the enquiries from the Legal Complaints Service. Matters escalated and the dispute eventually went to court and the judge found in favour of the solicitor as, in his role as executor, he (the solicitor) was also the client ie he was "soliciting" for himself! This decision left the complainant with costs of around £120K!

I realise these types of programme severely slant and skew facts to attract viewers but that said firstly what the hell is the point of the SRA if people are going to be bankrupted, despite being assured that there is no cost to complaining, if they do complain and secondly, given one, what accountability is there on the legal profession if the SRA (or forerunner) is a lying, toothless irrelevance?

Maybe the legal wallahs on here can cast some light.

Comments

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    Sounds a bit strange but offer the following possible explanation. First of all why didn't the father trust his son to be executor, why did the father appoint someone independent?

    The solicitor is simply acting as Executor which means he acts as principal, not an adviser, and in effect standing in place of the deceased. Beneficiaries don't have any rights, except to be paid by the Executor what they are entitled to. As long as the Executor has adhered to the terms of the Will he cannot have done anything wrong however much a beneficiary might disagree or complain, it's the Executor's decision and no one else's, that is the whole purpose.

    His complaint must have been dismissed by the authorities and he didn't have to go to Court, he choose to. Going to Court is not making a "complaint". Son must have been told initially he didn't have a case, mainly because he didn't have any rights except to be paid what he was told he was getting from the Executor. Courts probably confirmed that was the case and Courts didn't have any power to interfere with what the solicitor had done.

    His complaining created work for the Executor who, as a professional, was paid from the proceeds of the Estate for his time. Imagine that he caused the Estate to be depleted by £17k rather than "cost" the son £17k.

    Making a complaint to the solicitor's body where they agree you have a case and resolve it for you would not cost anything. If you are told you don't have a case then your complaint has been dealt with. If he then goes to Court and appoints a lawyer and thinks he is still just complaining and its free he must be a numpty which is probably why his father didn't make him Executor.
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    Maybe there was no "duty of care" as he wasn't the client?

    You'll see that the SRA handbook bangs on about clients quite a lot: sra.org.uk/solicitors/handbook/code/part2/content.page
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    edited October 2014
    Thanks for the replies so far.

    I can understand that the complainant is not the client but that does not answer the question as to why the Legal Complaints service apparently told him he could complain at no cost.

    Surely it is they (or the SRA as they have now become) who should cough up the costs, rather than the individual or his father's estate, if they gave misleading, negligent or false advice which intimated that this man had a right of complaint when he palpably did not?
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    It's not that duty of care is not required, it's that duty of care is owed to the deceased and potential beneficiaries under civil laws in relation to executorship, and the solicitor/client relationship does not exist. Can't see there ever was a mechanism for making a "complaint", only the Courts can say whether the law has been adhered to.
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    My complaint toward solicitors is that I did a law degree and completed an LPC, applied for numerous training contracts and 8 years later all I have to show for it is the debt it got me in and no training contract. Damn you legal profession.

    It's also at times like this I could've constructively chipped into this thread....
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    cabbles said:

    My complaint toward solicitors is that I did a law degree and completed an LPC, applied for numerous training contracts and 8 years later all I have to show for it is the debt it got me in and no training contract. Damn you legal profession.

    It's also at times like this I could've constructively chipped into this thread....

    You're not my daughter are you?
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    I think Dippenhall has already answered Len. There was no cost for making the complaint and there's also no charge for using the Legal Ombudsman.

    In the first instance, you should make your complaint clear to the solicitor and they are bound to respond fully within 8 weeks. After that, if you still feel that you have a complaint, you can report them to the SRA and make use of the Ombudsman's free service.

    http://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/problems.page

    http://www.legalombudsman.org.uk/consumer/

    If you've been down these routes and they have both found against you, you are not out of pocket - although maybe you've had time and opportunity costs build up.

    If you then decide to go to court, that's you ignoring the decision of the regulatory bodies and "taking a chance" that a judge will find in your favour. If you've been advised at that stage, then I would say you have a complaint against that solicitor, rather than the Executor! It's a little difficult to see a judge ruling for you if you've already been through the regulators and been found not to have a case.

    Can't see why the SRA would pay out for you at that stage.
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    LenGlover said:

    cabbles said:

    My complaint toward solicitors is that I did a law degree and completed an LPC, applied for numerous training contracts and 8 years later all I have to show for it is the debt it got me in and no training contract. Damn you legal profession.

    It's also at times like this I could've constructively chipped into this thread....

    You're not my daughter are you?
    I could have invested in a 10 year Charlton season ticket!!!!
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    My impression from the programme was that it went to court at the prompting of the SRA (Legal Complaints Service) in order to get a ruling as it was a "grey" area and that it was never intimated to the complainant that he would incur costs.
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    LenGlover said:

    cabbles said:

    My complaint toward solicitors is that I did a law degree and completed an LPC, applied for numerous training contracts and 8 years later all I have to show for it is the debt it got me in and no training contract. Damn you legal profession.

    It's also at times like this I could've constructively chipped into this thread....

    You're not my daughter are you?
    She is in an almost identical position to you.
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    I bet that the guy was a complete obsessive who pursued the solicitor with multiple complaints that were ultimately deemed vexatious.

    Be good if you could remember his name, might be able to find the court decision which would give the full background.
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    Jints said:

    I bet that the guy was a complete obsessive who pursued the solicitor with multiple complaints that were ultimately deemed vexatious.

    Be good if you could remember his name, might be able to find the court decision which would give the full background.

    Paul Cowdrey.

    I remember because I thought he looked a bit like Graham Cowdrey!
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    LenGlover said:

    My impression from the programme was that it went to court at the prompting of the SRA (Legal Complaints Service) in order to get a ruling as it was a "grey" area and that it was never intimated to the complainant that he would incur costs.

    There is no way the SRA woudl prompt someone to go to court. They do not give legal advice.

    What they may have said was that it wasn't a case in whcih they could uphold a complaint but that if he was unsatisfied, he could take his own legal advice.

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    LenGlover said:

    LenGlover said:

    cabbles said:

    My complaint toward solicitors is that I did a law degree and completed an LPC, applied for numerous training contracts and 8 years later all I have to show for it is the debt it got me in and no training contract. Damn you legal profession.

    It's also at times like this I could've constructively chipped into this thread....

    You're not my daughter are you?
    She is in an almost identical position to you.
    Well hopefully she's not been working on front line sales in the time between finishing her studies and now. Every day I lose a little bit of my soul doing my current job, but then I guess that could be true of a lot of people:)

    I guess the problem is if you do not get a training contract quite soon after finishing all the studies, the law changes, most of the firms recruit 2 years in advance. It's probably more competitive now than it was back then with all the new graduates coming onto the market.

    Be interesting to see if we have any lifers on here that have made it over the last few years, some success stories etc. I wouldn't want my moaning to be representative of the whole experience. I am pretty sure there are things I could've done better etc
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    cabbles said:

    LenGlover said:

    LenGlover said:

    cabbles said:

    My complaint toward solicitors is that I did a law degree and completed an LPC, applied for numerous training contracts and 8 years later all I have to show for it is the debt it got me in and no training contract. Damn you legal profession.

    It's also at times like this I could've constructively chipped into this thread....

    You're not my daughter are you?
    She is in an almost identical position to you.
    Well hopefully she's not been working on front line sales in the time between finishing her studies and now. Every day I lose a little bit of my soul doing my current job, but then I guess that could be true of a lot of people:)

    I guess the problem is if you do not get a training contract quite soon after finishing all the studies, the law changes, most of the firms recruit 2 years in advance. It's probably more competitive now than it was back then with all the new graduates coming onto the market.

    Be interesting to see if we have any lifers on here that have made it over the last few years, some success stories etc. I wouldn't want my moaning to be representative of the whole experience. I am pretty sure there are things I could've done better etc
    She did some conveyancing until the bottom fell out of the market late 2008 early 2009 when she was made redundant. She has worked for a Housing Association since then and does some in house legal stuff for them amongst her other duties.
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    cabbles said:

    My complaint toward solicitors is that I did a law degree and completed an LPC, applied for numerous training contracts and 8 years later all I have to show for it is the debt it got me in and no training contract. Damn you legal profession.

    It's also at times like this I could've constructively chipped into this thread....

    I was in the same position at the last recession. Took me 8 years to get a training contract but now working for a decent firm in the city. Only advice I have is stick at it - do as much paralegal work as you can etc. Or give up and do something more interesting and useful instead!

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    LenGlover said:

    cabbles said:

    LenGlover said:

    LenGlover said:

    cabbles said:

    My complaint toward solicitors is that I did a law degree and completed an LPC, applied for numerous training contracts and 8 years later all I have to show for it is the debt it got me in and no training contract. Damn you legal profession.

    It's also at times like this I could've constructively chipped into this thread....

    You're not my daughter are you?
    She is in an almost identical position to you.
    Well hopefully she's not been working on front line sales in the time between finishing her studies and now. Every day I lose a little bit of my soul doing my current job, but then I guess that could be true of a lot of people:)

    I guess the problem is if you do not get a training contract quite soon after finishing all the studies, the law changes, most of the firms recruit 2 years in advance. It's probably more competitive now than it was back then with all the new graduates coming onto the market.

    Be interesting to see if we have any lifers on here that have made it over the last few years, some success stories etc. I wouldn't want my moaning to be representative of the whole experience. I am pretty sure there are things I could've done better etc
    She did some conveyancing until the bottom fell out of the market late 2008 early 2009 when she was made redundant. She has worked for a Housing Association since then and does some in house legal stuff for them amongst her other duties.
    Very tough on anyone redundancy, not something I've experienced myself. Hope she is enjoying what she is doing now though.
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    LenGlover said:

    Jints said:

    I bet that the guy was a complete obsessive who pursued the solicitor with multiple complaints that were ultimately deemed vexatious.

    Be good if you could remember his name, might be able to find the court decision which would give the full background.

    Paul Cowdrey.

    I remember because I thought he looked a bit like Graham Cowdrey!
    The case was called Sandler v Coudrey but I can't find the decision unfortunately.

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    edited October 2014
    cabbles said:

    LenGlover said:

    cabbles said:

    LenGlover said:

    LenGlover said:

    cabbles said:

    My complaint toward solicitors is that I did a law degree and completed an LPC, applied for numerous training contracts and 8 years later all I have to show for it is the debt it got me in and no training contract. Damn you legal profession.

    It's also at times like this I could've constructively chipped into this thread....

    You're not my daughter are you?
    She is in an almost identical position to you.
    Well hopefully she's not been working on front line sales in the time between finishing her studies and now. Every day I lose a little bit of my soul doing my current job, but then I guess that could be true of a lot of people:)

    I guess the problem is if you do not get a training contract quite soon after finishing all the studies, the law changes, most of the firms recruit 2 years in advance. It's probably more competitive now than it was back then with all the new graduates coming onto the market.

    Be interesting to see if we have any lifers on here that have made it over the last few years, some success stories etc. I wouldn't want my moaning to be representative of the whole experience. I am pretty sure there are things I could've done better etc
    She did some conveyancing until the bottom fell out of the market late 2008 early 2009 when she was made redundant. She has worked for a Housing Association since then and does some in house legal stuff for them amongst her other duties.
    Very tough on anyone redundancy, not something I've experienced myself. Hope she is enjoying what she is doing now though.
    I think she is thanks.

    The dilemma she would have now is that in the unlikely event of getting a training contract she'd almost certainly have to take a pay cut but has financial commitments to her existing salary.
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    Jints said:

    LenGlover said:

    Jints said:

    I bet that the guy was a complete obsessive who pursued the solicitor with multiple complaints that were ultimately deemed vexatious.

    Be good if you could remember his name, might be able to find the court decision which would give the full background.

    Paul Cowdrey.

    I remember because I thought he looked a bit like Graham Cowdrey!
    The case was called Sandler v Coudrey but I can't find the decision unfortunately.

    Sorry I got the spelling of his name wrong!
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    This has all the makings of a modern-day Jarndyce v Jarndyce. Jints comment at 5.19 was bang on the button. A court ruled against Mr C and made the costs order for a substantial sum which suggests to me that Sandler had to spend a significant amount of time refuting the claim and, quite rightly, sought recompense for his wasted time. I suspect Mr C acted for himself as any solicitor would have warned him that if you sue someone and lose you will, usually, face substantial costs. It brings to mind the old saying 'a man who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client.'

    I sympathise with cabbles and Len's daughter. I have advised a number of starry-eyed students NOT to try and go into law. My reasons are many and I won't clog up this thread by setting them out. Like in any job, there are good lawyers, bad lawyers and some who are absolutely shite.
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    cabbles">My complaint toward solicitors is that I did a law degree and completed an LPC, applied for numerous training contracts and 8 years later all I have to show for it is the debt it got me in and no training contract. Damn you legal profession.

    It's also at times like this I could've constructively chipped into this thread....

    I was in the same position at the last recession. Took me 8 years to get a training contract but now working for a decent firm in the city. Only advice I have is stick at it - do as much paralegal work as you can etc. Or give up and do something more interesting and useful instead!



    Fair play for sticking at it. I was also looking to get into the paralegal route. When I finished my LPC I just didn't get any joy. I'm sure I probably didn't finesse or work on what would've made a difference but just didn't really get a look in. Then you're in the position where you need to take a job. And then as Len points out you have a salary that fits your outgoings, it was 2,3,4,5 and now 8 years since I did my LPC. You've got rent, bills and I probably couldn't afford to go to paralegal.

    I wish I could say I've something more interesting to do:)
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    edited October 2014
    http://www.solicitors-from-hell.co.uk/index.html

    (A website naming allegedly "dodgy" solicitors was shutndown by legal action by The Law Society). Of course websites like this may be part of our right to freedom of speech but they reflect only one poster's experience which may be very biased, bitter or skewed. Like Charlton Life I guess.
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    edited October 2014
    Solicitors from Hell was a pure shakedown operation. It's business model was that solicitors would pay to get complaints about them removed from the site.
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    edited October 2014
    LenGlover said:

    Jints said:

    LenGlover said:

    Jints said:

    I bet that the guy was a complete obsessive who pursued the solicitor with multiple complaints that were ultimately deemed vexatious.

    Be good if you could remember his name, might be able to find the court decision which would give the full background.

    Paul Cowdrey.

    I remember because I thought he looked a bit like Graham Cowdrey!
    The case was called Sandler v Coudrey but I can't find the decision unfortunately.

    Sorry I got the spelling of his name wrong!
    You didn't, I did!

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