Fault for what ? Spending millions on the pitch , Stadium and Acadamy .... Being the last unbeaten team and the last unbeaten home run ... Mid table and 31 points already in the bag
I ask again fault for what making is s better club and team then this time last season
At fault for the team having not won since Reading & plunging from a play-off place to bottom half of the league.
If the slide isn't halted we're heading for relegation.
Have you been asleep for 2 months ? We've lost 4 and drawn 4 in 8 games. Lost 3 drawn 4 in the league. 4 points from 21.
Football in England is a basket case. I don't see how we can, realistically, expect this man to drop any more of his money into our club and if we can't compete spending in excess of £5m a season more that we earn then we need to have a rethink.
If FFP is going to be removed (or as good as) then it is unlikely we will be seeing promotion anytime soon as other clubs will risk their future on a gamble to get promoted. With three clubs going up (and often comibg straight back down) there will always be half a dozen that have spent millions on going up and failing.
Frankly I'm just happy that we are no longer living under the threat of administration from week to week.
I don't think we will go down and I am more than happy with that to be honest.
Sadly most of this is correct. I only disagree with being "more than happy" at not thinking we will go down (from the championship). This is a level at which, based on history, our club would hope to be competitive once in a while, but the portents for that aint good.
If Duchatelet works out that he is not likely to get a ROI on his FFP game plan it is not at all clear how he gets a ROI from CAFC at all other than finding someone else to buy the shooting match for more than he paid, if such a person could be found. What I cant see him doing is speculating big bucks on players chasing a PL dream and why should we expect him to?
Fault for what ? Spending millions on the pitch , Stadium and Acadamy .... Being the last unbeaten team and the last unbeaten home run ... Mid table and 31 points already in the bag
I ask again fault for what making is s better club and team then this time last season
Spent millions on the Academy ? Not yet. Millions on the pitch and a bit of maintenance ? Colin you are exaggerating.
RD is at fault for providing a wafer thin squad which was never going to cut it. RD bought the club, no one forced him to do it. So far he does not seem to understand or want to provide the necessary quality for the club to be competitive over a Championship season.
To get value for young players, Charlton need to be competitive at the top end of the division. Or to gain promotion and get some money back from the Parachute payments. FFP appears to be a dead duck in the water and was most likely going to be. Cheap players from the network, youth players and a few freebies is not going to get Charlton to the top of the division.
I am really struggling to understand the current RD strategy and how it is supposed to recover the money he is putting into the club. There is a real risk of relegation, and I think it is a big assumption and a mistake to assume that Charlton will be mid table on the current strategy.
How could it possibly be RD's fault? The bloke has already spent millions sorting out the ground, the pitch, the catering and bringing in a £2.4m striker. If he left the club tomorrow he'd leave us in a far better state than when he joined
If only I could like and lol a post.. lol the first bit like the rest..
Why do you all treat mid table mediocrity as abject failure? You'd have given your limbs away last season for it.
Can't you see that going from near relegation to comfortable is an improvement? Or like most fickle fans is it not enough for you? We must be challenging or else the manager deserves to go.
We should be grateful we have an owner that has invested in the long term infrastructure of the club and I think will continue to do so.
It's not the position that worries me I'd be very happy with 13th come the end if the season. As before the season I feli i was being optimistic in predicting 12th. The problem is with the run of no wins, the abject performances, the rumours of dressing room "disagreements" and all the rest.
Why do you all treat mid table mediocrity as abject failure? You'd have given your limbs away last season for it.
Can't you see that going from near relegation to comfortable is an improvement? Or like most fickle fans is it not enough for you? We must be challenging or else the manager deserves to go.
We should be grateful we have an owner that has invested in the long term infrastructure of the club and I think will continue to do so.
It's not the position that worries me I'd be very happy with 13th come the end if the season. As before the season I feli i was being optimistic in predicting 12th. The problem is with the run of no wins, the abject performances, the rumours of dressing room "disagreements" and all the rest.
Football in England is a basket case. I don't see how we can, realistically, expect this man to drop any more of his money into our club and if we can't compete spending in excess of £5m a season more that we earn then we need to have a rethink.
If FFP is going to be removed (or as good as) then it is unlikely we will be seeing promotion anytime soon as other clubs will risk their future on a gamble to get promoted. With three clubs going up (and often comibg straight back down) there will always be half a dozen that have spent millions on going up and failing.
Frankly I'm just happy that we are no longer living under the threat of administration from week to week.
I don't think we will go down and I am more than happy with that to be honest.
Sadly most of this is correct. I only disagree with being "more than happy" at not thinking we will go down (from the championship). This is a level at which, based on history, our club would hope to be competitive once in a while, but the portents for that aint good.
If Duchatelet works out that he is not likely to get a ROI on his FFP game plan it is not at all clear how he gets a ROI from CAFC at all other than finding someone else to buy the shooting match for more than he paid, if such a person could be found. What I cant see him doing is speculating big bucks on players chasing a PL dream and why should we expect him to?
Perhaps he should have done proper due diligence? If he knew what he was buying then the losses shouldn't be a surprise, but it's really about sunk costs not what he's spent. I'm not an accountant, thankfully, but the assets have a value, especially The Valley. If he shut the club he could realise that value, subject to covenants on outstanding loans, or more likely he'd recoup it in a sale, so it's not as straightforward as just looking at what he's spent. At a more realistic level, Vetokele is not a sunk cost. And I doubt if he has spent anything on the catering.
I don't accept that Peeters is the problem, but if he is he's entirely one of RD's making, isn't he?
Yes he is RD's man prepared to do things RD's way so to the extent he is part of the problem - which not having the answers (from the horse's mouth, albeit English may not be his mother tongue) suggests he is, that is true.
Even Pardew didn't come out and say "there is nothing you can do" so far as I can recall...That's not the sort of fighting talk we need from a manager right now. I'd prefer him to say "well, its tough, but we are going to be working bloody hard to get it sorted"!
Personally I would also like to see a different approach when, as is frequently the case, we are not in possession of the ball or are fortunate enough to have a slender one goal lead. It is not RD sending them out with instructions to sit back, lay off and soak up inevitably mounting pressure until we concede late on, is it? You'd hope he might try something different some time although to be fair it has been that way under Powell sometimes too!
No Pardew said, its the players fault, its the boards fault, its the fans fault, its old players returning to the Valleys fault, its where the away fans sit fault ,,, no he did not say "there is nothing you can do", he said a lot stupider!!!
Why do you all treat mid table mediocrity as abject failure? You'd have given your limbs away last season for it.
Can't you see that going from near relegation to comfortable is an improvement? Or like most fickle fans is it not enough for you? We must be challenging or else the manager deserves to go.
We should be grateful we have an owner that has invested in the long term infrastructure of the club and I think will continue to do so.
It's not the position that worries me I'd be very happy with 13th come the end if the season. As before the season I feli i was being optimistic in predicting 12th. The problem is with the run of no wins, the abject performances, the rumours of dressing room "disagreements" and all the rest.
What rumours?
If you believe everything you read on here there was a bust up between JJ TBH and Bob at the Cardiff game and apparently ait was JJ and Co that said go 342.. but you can't believe everything spouted on here.. although since that rumour there has been reports of spats pitch side between the else's three so no smoke without fire as they say!
Is it even clear yet if there is even anything to be 'at fault' for?
Last season was a poor one, we had a beleagued manager apparently being undermined by his employers - firstly Mick and Tone who had run out of cash and then a new owner who wanted the club run in a different way (which is his right). This lack of support made it a tough working environment for the playing staff which was reflected in results. Riga came in and was apparently left to get on with it (good job because the new players he was given were not up to it) and managed to rescue the situation. He gets a lot of credit, and rightly so, but in reality he didn't change a great deal when he took over. He used the same network signings that Powell did and played similar tactics with the exception of getting us to pass it a little bit more. The foundation of his success was his seemingly pragmatic and softly, softly nature which maintained and, arguably, improved squad harmony and team spirit.
It was that togetherness in the team that got us out of trouble because the players were fighting hard for each other, the manager and the shirt. However, every season, successful or unsuccessful, usually has a purple patch, a period of poor form and a period of middling form. It's how long each of these phases lasts that dictates how your season goes overall. I believe that, without the external influences, we would have had a period of better form sometime after January even if Powell had stayed because the players were still playing for him and were quite simply due a decentish run. The unknown is if that better form would have been as good as under Riga and if it would have got us out of the bottom 3, but the point is it would only have been at the end of the season that would have truly known at which point in the season we were in each of those three phases of form. The season before that, no one would have predicted our late season surge in January 2013, but it came, expected or not.
And that is where we find ourselves now. We are part way through the second phase of our season. We do not know when that phase will end and what will follow it. All we know is we have had a phase of better results and a phase of poorer results. Next we may go on a great run and spurt up the table, or we may sink deep into the mire as even the odd draw here and there drys up, or we may just even out and end up somewhere between the two and probably halfway up the table.
Talk of people being 'at fault' is premature. We're better off for points than we were this time in either of the last 2 seasons (29 and 24 respectively). One of those seasons ended dreaming of what might have been, the other ended with a collective phew. This season could still go either way or neither way. Even allowing for signings to replace decent played that departed (like Hamer and Dervitte) the squad has some better players in it than New Year's Day 2014 (minus one Beast of Bretagne), the club is on an even keel financially and the place looks like somone is at least trying to look after it and not just ignoring it.
There were worrying signs in December, especially the rumours of dressing room disharmony, because what success we have had since promotion has very much been built on team spirit and hardwork. Bob certainly seems more likely to rub someone up the wrong way than his more easily likeable predecessors. However, equally, there were many promising signs in August and just because they have become less visible in the last few weeks doesn't mean they have gone away altogether.
Personally, I think we were never playing that brilliantly earlier in the sason and that, As they will tend to do, fans got a bit overexcited and over expectant, as illustrated by the slightly fanciful assessment by the OP that half our team would get into Derby's team. However, unless you've only been watching football since November, you should be well aware that a team's form can turn around quickly and sometimes dramatically. Winning/losing now, is almost a guarantee that you won't be winning/losing in the not too distant future. That's the way league football works for all but teams at the very top and the basket cases at the very bottom, and we were never likely to be either of those.
Bob does need to make sure he and his squad are all pulling for each other and there are things we can do better on the pitch but, over the whole sason so far, we're doing okay with an improved but still thin and very young squad. To help Bob arrest the slide Roland needs to let him sign a couple of players, preferably over 26 and with a couple of hundred solid Championship appearances behind them. If he wants us to be anything more than also rans he'll need to give Bob more, but there's nothing to say, other than a fan's impatience, that has to be this season because progress was always likely to be gradual, at best, on Roland's watch and, to be honest, there's nothing wrong with that.
It's still relatively early days for Bob, Roland and our season in general so trying to apportion blame when we don't even know what's has happened yet seems a bit silly to me. Essentially, the jury's still out. One thing for certain though, January is a very important month, but even on Feb 1 we'll probably only be in a position to pass a bit more judgement on Roland, rather than Bob (if he's still here of course!).
The idea of this thread was to open up debate, to find peoples views around the halfway point of the season. So far there have been some interesting responses.
Is it even clear yet if there is even anything to be 'at fault' for?
Last season was a poor one, we had a beleagued manager apparently being undermined by his employers - firstly Mick and Tone who had run out of cash and then a new owner who wanted the club run in a different way (which is his right). This lack of support made it a tough working environment for the playing staff which was reflected in results. Riga came in and was apparently left to get on with it (good job because the new players he was given were not up to it) and managed to rescue the situation. He gets a lot of credit, and rightly so, but in reality he didn't change a great deal when he took over. He used the same network signings that Powell did and played similar tactics with the exception of getting us to pass it a little bit more. The foundation of his success was his seemingly pragmatic and softly, softly nature which maintained and, arguably, improved squad harmony and team spirit.
It was that togetherness in the team that got us out of trouble because the players were fighting hard for each other, the manager and the shirt. However, every season, successful or unsuccessful, usually has a purple patch, a period of poor form and a period of middling form. It's how long each of these phases lasts that dictates how your season goes overall. I believe that, without the external influences, we would have had a period of better form sometime after January even if Powell had stayed because the players were still playing for him and were quite simply due a decentish run. The unknown is if that better form would have been as good as under Riga and if it would have got us out of the bottom 3, but the point is it would only have been at the end of the season that would have truly known at which point in the season we were in each of those three phases of form. The season before that, no one would have predicted our late season surge in January 2013, but it came, expected or not.
And that is where we find ourselves now. We are part way through the second phase of our season. We do not know when that phase will end and what will follow it. All we know is we have had a phase of better results and a phase of poorer results. Next we may go on a great run and spurt up the table, or we may sink deep into the mire as even the odd draw here and there drys up, or we may just even out and end up somewhere between the two and probably halfway up the table.
Talk of people being 'at fault' is premature. We're better off for points than we were this time in either of the last 2 seasons (29 and 24 respectively). One of those seasons ended dreaming of what might have been, the other ended with a collective phew. This season could still go either way or neither way. Even allowing for signings to replace decent played that departed (like Hamer and Dervitte) the squad has some better players in it than New Year's Day 2014 (minus one Beast of Bretagne), the club is on an even keel financially and the place looks like somone is at least trying to look after it and not just ignoring it.
There were worrying signs in December, especially the rumours of dressing room disharmony, because what success we have had since promotion has very much been built on team spirit and hardwork. Bob certainly seems more likely to rub someone up the wrong way than his more easily likeable predecessors. However, equally, there were many promising signs in August and just because they have become less visible in the last few weeks doesn't mean they have gone away altogether.
Personally, I think we were never playing that brilliantly earlier in the sason and that, As they will tend to do, fans got a bit overexcited and over expectant, as illustrated by the slightly fanciful assessment by the OP that half our team would get into Derby's team. However, unless you've only been watching football since November, you should be well aware that a team's form can turn around quickly and sometimes dramatically. Winning/losing now, is almost a guarantee that you won't be winning/losing in the not too distant future. That's the way league football works for all but teams at the very top and the basket cases at the very bottom, and we were never likely to be either of those.
Bob does need to make sure he and his squad are all pulling for each other and there are things we can do better on the pitch but, over the whole sason so far, we're doing okay with an improved but still thin and very young squad. To help Bob arrest the slide Roland needs to let him sign a couple of players, preferably over 26 and with a couple of hundred solid Championship appearances behind them. If he wants us to be anything more than also rans he'll need to give Bob more, but there's nothing to say, other than a fan's impatience, that has to be this season because progress was always likely to be gradual, at best, on Roland's watch and, to be honest, there's nothing wrong with that.
It's still relatively early days for Bob, Roland and our season in general so trying to apportion blame when we don't even know what's has happened yet seems a bit silly to me. Essentially, the jury's still out. One thing for certain though, January is a very important month, but even on Feb 1 we'll probably only be in a position to pass a bit more judgement on Roland, rather than Bob (if he's still here of course!).
Sorry mate,you have rose tinted glasses on.Read Bikey's comments in today's SLP and tell me the team is not melting down.
The idea of this thread was to open up debate, to find peoples views around the halfway point of the season. So far there have been some interesting responses.
Right so can somebody tell me what Roland should be doing that he is current not?
And i mean answers that don't involve the usual "spend millions of pounds on players Roland!!!!" because as we've already established, he has already starting paying members of staff properly and refurnishing the stadium.
Is it even clear yet if there is even anything to be 'at fault' for?
Last season was a poor one, we had a beleagued manager apparently being undermined by his employers - firstly Mick and Tone who had run out of cash and then a new owner who wanted the club run in a different way (which is his right). This lack of support made it a tough working environment for the playing staff which was reflected in results. Riga came in and was apparently left to get on with it (good job because the new players he was given were not up to it) and managed to rescue the situation. He gets a lot of credit, and rightly so, but in reality he didn't change a great deal when he took over. He used the same network signings that Powell did and played similar tactics with the exception of getting us to pass it a little bit more. The foundation of his success was his seemingly pragmatic and softly, softly nature which maintained and, arguably, improved squad harmony and team spirit.
It was that togetherness in the team that got us out of trouble because the players were fighting hard for each other, the manager and the shirt. However, every season, successful or unsuccessful, usually has a purple patch, a period of poor form and a period of middling form. It's how long each of these phases lasts that dictates how your season goes overall. I believe that, without the external influences, we would have had a period of better form sometime after January even if Powell had stayed because the players were still playing for him and were quite simply due a decentish run. The unknown is if that better form would have been as good as under Riga and if it would have got us out of the bottom 3, but the point is it would only have been at the end of the season that would have truly known at which point in the season we were in each of those three phases of form. The season before that, no one would have predicted our late season surge in January 2013, but it came, expected or not.
And that is where we find ourselves now. We are part way through the second phase of our season. We do not know when that phase will end and what will follow it. All we know is we have had a phase of better results and a phase of poorer results. Next we may go on a great run and spurt up the table, or we may sink deep into the mire as even the odd draw here and there drys up, or we may just even out and end up somewhere between the two and probably halfway up the table.
Talk of people being 'at fault' is premature. We're better off for points than we were this time in either of the last 2 seasons (29 and 24 respectively). One of those seasons ended dreaming of what might have been, the other ended with a collective phew. This season could still go either way or neither way. Even allowing for signings to replace decent played that departed (like Hamer and Dervitte) the squad has some better players in it than New Year's Day 2014 (minus one Beast of Bretagne), the club is on an even keel financially and the place looks like somone is at least trying to look after it and not just ignoring it.
There were worrying signs in December, especially the rumours of dressing room disharmony, because what success we have had since promotion has very much been built on team spirit and hardwork. Bob certainly seems more likely to rub someone up the wrong way than his more easily likeable predecessors. However, equally, there were many promising signs in August and just because they have become less visible in the last few weeks doesn't mean they have gone away altogether.
Personally, I think we were never playing that brilliantly earlier in the sason and that, As they will tend to do, fans got a bit overexcited and over expectant, as illustrated by the slightly fanciful assessment by the OP that half our team would get into Derby's team. However, unless you've only been watching football since November, you should be well aware that a team's form can turn around quickly and sometimes dramatically. Winning/losing now, is almost a guarantee that you won't be winning/losing in the not too distant future. That's the way league football works for all but teams at the very top and the basket cases at the very bottom, and we were never likely to be either of those.
Bob does need to make sure he and his squad are all pulling for each other and there are things we can do better on the pitch but, over the whole sason so far, we're doing okay with an improved but still thin and very young squad. To help Bob arrest the slide Roland needs to let him sign a couple of players, preferably over 26 and with a couple of hundred solid Championship appearances behind them. If he wants us to be anything more than also rans he'll need to give Bob more, but there's nothing to say, other than a fan's impatience, that has to be this season because progress was always likely to be gradual, at best, on Roland's watch and, to be honest, there's nothing wrong with that.
It's still relatively early days for Bob, Roland and our season in general so trying to apportion blame when we don't even know what's has happened yet seems a bit silly to me. Essentially, the jury's still out. One thing for certain though, January is a very important month, but even on Feb 1 we'll probably only be in a position to pass a bit more judgement on Roland, rather than Bob (if he's still here of course!).
Sorry mate,you have rose tinted glasses on.Read Bikey's comments in today's SLP and tell me the team is not melting down.
no he doesn't ... he talks sense ... a lot of sense.
We seem to live in a world that requires instant gratification ... Change takes time if it is to have an impact. Chill out ...No way are we going down.
Right so can somebody tell me what Roland should be doing that he is current not?
And i mean answers that don't involve the usual "spend millions of pounds on players Roland!!!!" because as we've already established, he has already starting paying members of staff properly and refurnishing the stadium.
The pitch was essentially a requirement, we would not have qualified to play with the FL (in-fact no games would go ahead within a month of a bit of rain fall) had he not invested into the pitch. A lick of paint around the place and new seats are very small investments in the grand scheme of things, a few on the day extra ticket sales will pay for these.
We are not able to field an XI v XI training match (unfortunately true), yes because of injuries but you prepare for this by having an in-depth quality squad.
Roland will be fed up with Igor's form as it was looking like he'd be heading for a huge sell on value at the start of the season, no longer is that the case..
In answer to your q, he needs to be pro-active, listen to the coach we have and work out a way around it rather than letting the damage worsen.. instead of only acting if we are very close to promotion (which is the time we LEAST need investment/reinforcements), why not act TO push ourselves up to that? Work hard for good quality loans.
He's running our SQUAD as cheap as he can, if he invests in a player it's not to strengthen us and push us up the table, it's because he thinks he can improve that 'assets' worth, and his method of this seems pretty poor..
Right so can somebody tell me what Roland should be doing that he is current not?
And i mean answers that don't involve the usual "spend millions of pounds on players Roland!!!!" because as we've already established, he has already starting paying members of staff properly and refurnishing the stadium.
Pay for a centre forward, it is not a luxury in any team that I have played in/watched in the last 50 years.
Is it even clear yet if there is even anything to be 'at fault' for?
Last season was a poor one, we had a beleagued manager apparently being undermined by his employers - firstly Mick and Tone who had run out of cash and then a new owner who wanted the club run in a different way (which is his right). This lack of support made it a tough working environment for the playing staff which was reflected in results. Riga came in and was apparently left to get on with it (good job because the new players he was given were not up to it) and managed to rescue the situation. He gets a lot of credit, and rightly so, but in reality he didn't change a great deal when he took over. He used the same network signings that Powell did and played similar tactics with the exception of getting us to pass it a little bit more. The foundation of his success was his seemingly pragmatic and softly, softly nature which maintained and, arguably, improved squad harmony and team spirit.
It was that togetherness in the team that got us out of trouble because the players were fighting hard for each other, the manager and the shirt. However, every season, successful or unsuccessful, usually has a purple patch, a period of poor form and a period of middling form. It's how long each of these phases lasts that dictates how your season goes overall. I believe that, without the external influences, we would have had a period of better form sometime after January even if Powell had stayed because the players were still playing for him and were quite simply due a decentish run. The unknown is if that better form would have been as good as under Riga and if it would have got us out of the bottom 3, but the point is it would only have been at the end of the season that would have truly known at which point in the season we were in each of those three phases of form. The season before that, no one would have predicted our late season surge in January 2013, but it came, expected or not.
And that is where we find ourselves now. We are part way through the second phase of our season. We do not know when that phase will end and what will follow it. All we know is we have had a phase of better results and a phase of poorer results. Next we may go on a great run and spurt up the table, or we may sink deep into the mire as even the odd draw here and there drys up, or we may just even out and end up somewhere between the two and probably halfway up the table.
Talk of people being 'at fault' is premature. We're better off for points than we were this time in either of the last 2 seasons (29 and 24 respectively). One of those seasons ended dreaming of what might have been, the other ended with a collective phew. This season could still go either way or neither way. Even allowing for signings to replace decent played that departed (like Hamer and Dervitte) the squad has some better players in it than New Year's Day 2014 (minus one Beast of Bretagne), the club is on an even keel financially and the place looks like somone is at least trying to look after it and not just ignoring it.
There were worrying signs in December, especially the rumours of dressing room disharmony, because what success we have had since promotion has very much been built on team spirit and hardwork. Bob certainly seems more likely to rub someone up the wrong way than his more easily likeable predecessors. However, equally, there were many promising signs in August and just because they have become less visible in the last few weeks doesn't mean they have gone away altogether.
Personally, I think we were never playing that brilliantly earlier in the sason and that, As they will tend to do, fans got a bit overexcited and over expectant, as illustrated by the slightly fanciful assessment by the OP that half our team would get into Derby's team. However, unless you've only been watching football since November, you should be well aware that a team's form can turn around quickly and sometimes dramatically. Winning/losing now, is almost a guarantee that you won't be winning/losing in the not too distant future. That's the way league football works for all but teams at the very top and the basket cases at the very bottom, and we were never likely to be either of those.
Bob does need to make sure he and his squad are all pulling for each other and there are things we can do better on the pitch but, over the whole sason so far, we're doing okay with an improved but still thin and very young squad. To help Bob arrest the slide Roland needs to let him sign a couple of players, preferably over 26 and with a couple of hundred solid Championship appearances behind them. If he wants us to be anything more than also rans he'll need to give Bob more, but there's nothing to say, other than a fan's impatience, that has to be this season because progress was always likely to be gradual, at best, on Roland's watch and, to be honest, there's nothing wrong with that.
It's still relatively early days for Bob, Roland and our season in general so trying to apportion blame when we don't even know what's has happened yet seems a bit silly to me. Essentially, the jury's still out. One thing for certain though, January is a very important month, but even on Feb 1 we'll probably only be in a position to pass a bit more judgement on Roland, rather than Bob (if he's still here of course!).
Sorry mate,you have rose tinted glasses on.Read Bikey's comments in today's SLP and tell me the team is not melting down.
No, no you're quite right. The players have apparently had a couple of heated dressing room discussions and, halfway through the season, we only have over half the points usually required to stay up. Hell, we even lost some games recently.
We are clearly in utter turmoil. We're doomed for sure and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Might as well give up and go home now. Seems hardly worth fulfilling our remaining fixtures.
Is it even clear yet if there is even anything to be 'at fault' for?
Last season was a poor one, we had a beleagued manager apparently being undermined by his employers - firstly Mick and Tone who had run out of cash and then a new owner who wanted the club run in a different way (which is his right). This lack of support made it a tough working environment for the playing staff which was reflected in results. Riga came in and was apparently left to get on with it (good job because the new players he was given were not up to it) and managed to rescue the situation. He gets a lot of credit, and rightly so, but in reality he didn't change a great deal when he took over. He used the same network signings that Powell did and played similar tactics with the exception of getting us to pass it a little bit more. The foundation of his success was his seemingly pragmatic and softly, softly nature which maintained and, arguably, improved squad harmony and team spirit.
It was that togetherness in the team that got us out of trouble because the players were fighting hard for each other, the manager and the shirt. However, every season, successful or unsuccessful, usually has a purple patch, a period of poor form and a period of middling form. It's how long each of these phases lasts that dictates how your season goes overall. I believe that, without the external influences, we would have had a period of better form sometime after January even if Powell had stayed because the players were still playing for him and were quite simply due a decentish run. The unknown is if that better form would have been as good as under Riga and if it would have got us out of the bottom 3, but the point is it would only have been at the end of the season that would have truly known at which point in the season we were in each of those three phases of form. The season before that, no one would have predicted our late season surge in January 2013, but it came, expected or not.
And that is where we find ourselves now. We are part way through the second phase of our season. We do not know when that phase will end and what will follow it. All we know is we have had a phase of better results and a phase of poorer results. Next we may go on a great run and spurt up the table, or we may sink deep into the mire as even the odd draw here and there drys up, or we may just even out and end up somewhere between the two and probably halfway up the table.
Talk of people being 'at fault' is premature. We're better off for points than we were this time in either of the last 2 seasons (29 and 24 respectively). One of those seasons ended dreaming of what might have been, the other ended with a collective phew. This season could still go either way or neither way. Even allowing for signings to replace decent played that departed (like Hamer and Dervitte) the squad has some better players in it than New Year's Day 2014 (minus one Beast of Bretagne), the club is on an even keel financially and the place looks like somone is at least trying to look after it and not just ignoring it.
There were worrying signs in December, especially the rumours of dressing room disharmony, because what success we have had since promotion has very much been built on team spirit and hardwork. Bob certainly seems more likely to rub someone up the wrong way than his more easily likeable predecessors. However, equally, there were many promising signs in August and just because they have become less visible in the last few weeks doesn't mean they have gone away altogether.
Personally, I think we were never playing that brilliantly earlier in the sason and that, As they will tend to do, fans got a bit overexcited and over expectant, as illustrated by the slightly fanciful assessment by the OP that half our team would get into Derby's team. However, unless you've only been watching football since November, you should be well aware that a team's form can turn around quickly and sometimes dramatically. Winning/losing now, is almost a guarantee that you won't be winning/losing in the not too distant future. That's the way league football works for all but teams at the very top and the basket cases at the very bottom, and we were never likely to be either of those.
Bob does need to make sure he and his squad are all pulling for each other and there are things we can do better on the pitch but, over the whole sason so far, we're doing okay with an improved but still thin and very young squad. To help Bob arrest the slide Roland needs to let him sign a couple of players, preferably over 26 and with a couple of hundred solid Championship appearances behind them. If he wants us to be anything more than also rans he'll need to give Bob more, but there's nothing to say, other than a fan's impatience, that has to be this season because progress was always likely to be gradual, at best, on Roland's watch and, to be honest, there's nothing wrong with that.
It's still relatively early days for Bob, Roland and our season in general so trying to apportion blame when we don't even know what's has happened yet seems a bit silly to me. Essentially, the jury's still out. One thing for certain though, January is a very important month, but even on Feb 1 we'll probably only be in a position to pass a bit more judgement on Roland, rather than Bob (if he's still here of course!).
Sorry mate,you have rose tinted glasses on.Read Bikey's comments in today's SLP and tell me the team is not melting down.
No, no you're quite right. The players have apparently had a couple of heated dressing room discussions and, halfway through the season, we only have over half the points usually required to stay up. Hell, we even lost some games recently.
We are clearly in utter turmoil. We're doomed for sure and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Might as well give up and go home now. Seems hardly worth fulfilling our remaining fixtures.
In the past 3 months we have had a few decent half games, the rest has been pretty dire and the results tell their own story. The squad is too thin and the first 11 has no holding centre forward or attacking midfielder. This has meant, in part, that we cannot hold the ball in the opponents half, which is reflected in the possession stats and put extra pressure on the defence, which has been weakened through Morrison leaving. Young, inexperienced players have been brought in to fill the gaps and this has had a fairly negative impact on them.
Can this be turned around? Well, the obvious gaps would have to be filled for a start, so let us see if the right calibre of players is brought in. Personally I doubt it as it would not fit Roland's business plan. Then Bob would have to blend them into the team mid season, never an easy task.
I do not feel much better about the matchday experience because the grass is green and the food is decent. For me it is about supporting a winning team, or at least one that plays attractive football, not backs to the wall defending in home games. Or even failing that ( I have been a supporter for 50 years so am a realist) a well organised team that is giving 100%. At the moment we have none of these. Bikey's comments appear to me to be a cry for help, not a rallying cry.
I don't believe that you can lay the blame for our current malaise at the feet of any one individual or thing. Instead there are a number factors that have somehow combined to give us a hard time:
- Lack of any positive impact from RD's multi club model. We've picked up a handful of decent players from elsewhere in the stable, but generally speaking the quality of imports has not been high enough. - Failure to secure a sufficient strike force. We have one striker who is good enough to start regularly at this level and he has recently found himself isolated, injured and/or fatigued. Letting Kermorgant go without lining up a suitable foil to partner Vetokele was a huge error by the board. - The basket case that is the Football League. In particular, the fact that other clubs disregarded FFP and then voted to amend wreck it, placed us and the other clubs that tried to work within the rules in a ridiculously difficult position. I'm still amazed that this has happened; surely there must be some legal recourse. - The financial mismanagement of previous regimes resulting in damage to the club's infrastructure. Where could we have been now if the money spent on completely relaying the pitch could have gone towards players? - Manager as "head coach". We've already lost our best manager since Curbs as a result of the lack of authority allowed to our management, now it seems that there could be friction between RD and Peeters for the same reason. - Bad luck with injuries. In particular the loss of Wiggins and Henderson and the ongoing saga of Solly's knee have placed us under considerable pressure at the back. Youngsters who should have played a useful bit-parts have been given lead roles for which they aren't yet ready. - Poor man management. If rumours of arguments between BP and players are to be believed. - Lack of alternative approaches to play. Once we'd been found out by other clubs, the wins turned to draws and the draws to defeats.
I don't believe that you can lay the blame for our current malaise at the feet of any one individual or thing. Instead there are a number factors that have somehow combined to give us a hard time:
- Lack of any positive impact from RD's multi club model. We've picked up a handful of decent players from elsewhere in the stable, but generally speaking the quality of imports has not been high enough. - Failure to secure a sufficient strike force. We have one striker who is good enough to start regularly at this level and he has recently found himself isolated, injured and/or fatigued. Letting Kermorgant go without lining up a suitable foil to partner Vetokele was a huge error by the board. - The basket case that is the Football League. In particular, the fact that other clubs disregarded FFP and then voted to amend wreck it, placed us and the other clubs that tried to work within the rules in a ridiculously difficult position. I'm still amazed that this has happened; surely there must be some legal recourse. - The financial mismanagement of previous regimes resulting in damage to the club's infrastructure. Where could we have been now if the money spent on completely relaying the pitch could have gone towards players? - Manager as "head coach". We've already lost our best manager since Curbs as a result of the lack of authority allowed to our management, now it seems that there could be friction between RD and Peeters for the same reason. - Bad luck with injuries. In particular the loss of Wiggins and Henderson and the ongoing saga of Solly's knee have placed us under considerable pressure at the back. Youngsters who should have played a useful bit-parts have been given lead roles for which they aren't yet ready. - Poor man management. If rumours of arguments between BP and players are to be believed. - Lack of alternative approaches to play. Once we'd been found out by other clubs, the wins turned to draws and the draws to defeats.
Great post, Stig. Covers all the bases, and demonstrates that there is no single person who deserves to be targeted, nor, unfortunately, one single simple solution to our current woes.
Clearly M. Roly has decided that Peeters was the problem and dispensed of his services.
More than likely it will be Luzon that comes in. Not good enough for Liege but will come to us regardless. Same scenario when Riga came in so if things go to plan, Luzon will do a good job and passed on to another club in Roly's network at the end of the season. Back to square one again.
Will the fans put up with anymore of this? It won't stop me going but attendances will suffer plus the goodwill shown may now turn to anger. Already Axis a sponsor of the club over the last 20 years has decided enough is enough. Anymore like that?
What do the trust think about this?
Will the Oak have a few more customers this week? Whilst at the time I disagreed the way this G21 group decided to go about things last March, maybe they were right about what's going on at present.
Soon to be 4 managers in 10 months is not from an outsiders view of a stable football club, more like a mess.
Comments
If the slide isn't halted we're heading for relegation.
Have you been asleep for 2 months ? We've lost 4 and drawn 4 in 8 games. Lost 3 drawn 4 in the league. 4 points from 21.
RD is at fault for providing a wafer thin squad which was never going to cut it. RD bought the club, no one forced him to do it. So far he does not seem to understand or want to provide the necessary quality for the club to be competitive over a Championship season.
To get value for young players, Charlton need to be competitive at the top end of the division. Or to gain promotion and get some money back from the Parachute payments. FFP appears to be a dead duck in the water and was most likely going to be. Cheap players from the network, youth players and a few freebies is not going to get Charlton to the top of the division.
I am really struggling to understand the current RD strategy and how it is supposed to recover the money he is putting into the club. There is a real risk of relegation, and I think it is a big assumption and a mistake to assume that Charlton will be mid table on the current strategy.
Last season was a poor one, we had a beleagued manager apparently being undermined by his employers - firstly Mick and Tone who had run out of cash and then a new owner who wanted the club run in a different way (which is his right). This lack of support made it a tough working environment for the playing staff which was reflected in results. Riga came in and was apparently left to get on with it (good job because the new players he was given were not up to it) and managed to rescue the situation. He gets a lot of credit, and rightly so, but in reality he didn't change a great deal when he took over. He used the same network signings that Powell did and played similar tactics with the exception of getting us to pass it a little bit more. The foundation of his success was his seemingly pragmatic and softly, softly nature which maintained and, arguably, improved squad harmony and team spirit.
It was that togetherness in the team that got us out of trouble because the players were fighting hard for each other, the manager and the shirt. However, every season, successful or unsuccessful, usually has a purple patch, a period of poor form and a period of middling form. It's how long each of these phases lasts that dictates how your season goes overall. I believe that, without the external influences, we would have had a period of better form sometime after January even if Powell had stayed because the players were still playing for him and were quite simply due a decentish run. The unknown is if that better form would have been as good as under Riga and if it would have got us out of the bottom 3, but the point is it would only have been at the end of the season that would have truly known at which point in the season we were in each of those three phases of form. The season before that, no one would have predicted our late season surge in January 2013, but it came, expected or not.
And that is where we find ourselves now. We are part way through the second phase of our season. We do not know when that phase will end and what will follow it. All we know is we have had a phase of better results and a phase of poorer results. Next we may go on a great run and spurt up the table, or we may sink deep into the mire as even the odd draw here and there drys up, or we may just even out and end up somewhere between the two and probably halfway up the table.
Talk of people being 'at fault' is premature. We're better off for points than we were this time in either of the last 2 seasons (29 and 24 respectively). One of those seasons ended dreaming of what might have been, the other ended with a collective phew. This season could still go either way or neither way. Even allowing for signings to replace decent played that departed (like Hamer and Dervitte) the squad has some better players in it than New Year's Day 2014 (minus one Beast of Bretagne), the club is on an even keel financially and the place looks like somone is at least trying to look after it and not just ignoring it.
There were worrying signs in December, especially the rumours of dressing room disharmony, because what success we have had since promotion has very much been built on team spirit and hardwork. Bob certainly seems more likely to rub someone up the wrong way than his more easily likeable predecessors. However, equally, there were many promising signs in August and just because they have become less visible in the last few weeks doesn't mean they have gone away altogether.
Personally, I think we were never playing that brilliantly earlier in the sason and that, As they will tend to do, fans got a bit overexcited and over expectant, as illustrated by the slightly fanciful assessment by the OP that half our team would get into Derby's team. However, unless you've only been watching football since November, you should be well aware that a team's form can turn around quickly and sometimes dramatically. Winning/losing now, is almost a guarantee that you won't be winning/losing in the not too distant future. That's the way league football works for all but teams at the very top and the basket cases at the very bottom, and we were never likely to be either of those.
Bob does need to make sure he and his squad are all pulling for each other and there are things we can do better on the pitch but, over the whole sason so far, we're doing okay with an improved but still thin and very young squad. To help Bob arrest the slide Roland needs to let him sign a couple of players, preferably over 26 and with a couple of hundred solid Championship appearances behind them. If he wants us to be anything more than also rans he'll need to give Bob more, but there's nothing to say, other than a fan's impatience, that has to be this season because progress was always likely to be gradual, at best, on Roland's watch and, to be honest, there's nothing wrong with that.
It's still relatively early days for Bob, Roland and our season in general so trying to apportion blame when we don't even know what's has happened yet seems a bit silly to me. Essentially, the jury's still out. One thing for certain though, January is a very important month, but even on Feb 1 we'll probably only be in a position to pass a bit more judgement on Roland, rather than Bob (if he's still here of course!).
Personally I'm in the concerned tent.
There's more coming in ....
And i mean answers that don't involve the usual "spend millions of pounds on players Roland!!!!" because as we've already established, he has already starting paying members of staff properly and refurnishing the stadium.
We are not able to field an XI v XI training match (unfortunately true), yes because of injuries but you prepare for this by having an in-depth quality squad.
Roland will be fed up with Igor's form as it was looking like he'd be heading for a huge sell on value at the start of the season, no longer is that the case..
In answer to your q, he needs to be pro-active, listen to the coach we have and work out a way around it rather than letting the damage worsen.. instead of only acting if we are very close to promotion (which is the time we LEAST need investment/reinforcements), why not act TO push ourselves up to that? Work hard for good quality loans.
He's running our SQUAD as cheap as he can, if he invests in a player it's not to strengthen us and push us up the table, it's because he thinks he can improve that 'assets' worth, and his method of this seems pretty poor..
We are clearly in utter turmoil. We're doomed for sure and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Might as well give up and go home now. Seems hardly worth fulfilling our remaining fixtures.
Can this be turned around? Well, the obvious gaps would have to be filled for a start, so let us see if the right calibre of players is brought in. Personally I doubt it as it would not fit Roland's business plan. Then Bob would have to blend them into the team mid season, never an easy task.
I do not feel much better about the matchday experience because the grass is green and the food is decent. For me it is about supporting a winning team, or at least one that plays attractive football, not backs to the wall defending in home games. Or even failing that ( I have been a supporter for 50 years so am a realist) a well organised team that is giving 100%. At the moment we have none of these. Bikey's comments appear to me to be a cry for help, not a rallying cry.
Personally I doubt it as it would not fit Roland's business plan.
Which you know about of course?
however there is no way RD purchased us in order to throw it all away.
As you say, let's wait and see.
- Lack of any positive impact from RD's multi club model. We've picked up a handful of decent players from elsewhere in the stable, but generally speaking the quality of imports has not been high enough.
- Failure to secure a sufficient strike force. We have one striker who is good enough to start regularly at this level and he has recently found himself isolated, injured and/or fatigued. Letting Kermorgant go without lining up a suitable foil to partner Vetokele was a huge error by the board.
- The basket case that is the Football League. In particular, the fact that other clubs disregarded FFP and then voted to
amendwreck it, placed us and the other clubs that tried to work within the rules in a ridiculously difficult position. I'm still amazed that this has happened; surely there must be some legal recourse.- The financial mismanagement of previous regimes resulting in damage to the club's infrastructure. Where could we have been now if the money spent on completely relaying the pitch could have gone towards players?
- Manager as "head coach". We've already lost our best manager since Curbs as a result of the lack of authority allowed to our management, now it seems that there could be friction between RD and Peeters for the same reason.
- Bad luck with injuries. In particular the loss of Wiggins and Henderson and the ongoing saga of Solly's knee have placed us under considerable pressure at the back. Youngsters who should have played a useful bit-parts have been given lead roles for which they aren't yet ready.
- Poor man management. If rumours of arguments between BP and players are to be believed.
- Lack of alternative approaches to play. Once we'd been found out by other clubs, the wins turned to draws and the draws to defeats.
More than likely it will be Luzon that comes in. Not good enough for Liege but will come to us regardless. Same scenario when Riga came in so if things go to plan, Luzon will do a good job and passed on to another club in Roly's network at the end of the season. Back to square one again.
Will the fans put up with anymore of this? It won't stop me going but attendances will suffer plus the goodwill shown may now turn to anger. Already Axis a sponsor of the club over the last 20 years has decided enough is enough. Anymore like that?
What do the trust think about this?
Will the Oak have a few more customers this week? Whilst at the time I disagreed the way this G21 group decided to go about things last March, maybe they were right about what's going on at present.
Soon to be 4 managers in 10 months is not from an outsiders view of a stable football club, more like a mess.