My Mum thankfully is still alive and kicking at 87, but she expects me to look after the will etc when she passes away. I was reading in Which magazine that fees for executing a will vary widely and not for any good reason. Which quoted a range of £750 - £15,000 for a similar estate. So we decided to look into it and asked the solicitors who hold my Mum's will , TG Baines, what they will charge. they gave their answer as 2.5% of the value of the estate. They went down to 2% when i pushed them but they ignored my point, that a percentage approach is not transparent because estate values have shot up with the recent rise in property values - yet the amount of work involved stays the same.
So if anyone could recommend a solicitor for this, as close to Eltham as possible, I'd be very pleased to know of them (and any other thoughts on this)
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https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance
The guidance here is good, it will require some document gathering, form filling, and statutory fees, but it will be a hell of a lot cheaper than a solicitor who will only do the same stuff....but slower.
If a solicitor is used it stops any silly whispering amongst relatives.
If the estate is worth 10K or 900K the disbursements and complications, or simple matters of process, will take the same amount of work with simply different numbers filled in the boxes on the forms.
In writing my will, I paid an up front fee of a fixed amount to the will writing company to provide my beneficiaries with, what they called, a 'hand-holding service', whereby they tell my beneficiaries the step by step process they have to do.
Now why would a will writing service charge (handsomely) for such a service via a fixed amount? The answer is as I have said above, however complicated, or simple the affairs may be, the amount of work done will be the same.
Using a solicitor is simply not necessary as far as I can see, and the percentage approach is like the percentage approach used by estate agents, not related to the work, but simple greed.
Linda hulbert at Woolsey Morris Kennady in Sidcup.
I used them as did Colin Cameron ' family
In fact inheritance tax as a whole really, really hacks me off. You bust your gut, your whole life, you just want to provide for your dependents when you go, and right at the last minute, someone's got their grubby hands just to have one last swipe.
Money (or rather the perceived lack thereof from the deceased) can cause rifts in even the most well adjusted families. If the family is fragmented with "halves" "steps" and cohabitees or any combination thereof there is even more potential for friction.
That, in my view, is a very good reason for using a solicitor or other qualified professional. They are (or should be) completely independent and that itself should nip most disputes firmly in the bud.
For those who pass intestate it is straightforward enough, and can be done otherwise with form filling and birth certificates. if you use a solicitor they will still expect somebody to rummage through the paperwork and provide them with all the documents anyway. they will then put the documents in order and fill in the forms.
if there are solicitors reading this, and can explain why an estate worth 600k could cost 15k to sort out, but an estate worth 10k would cost £250 to sort out, maybe they can come on and explain why there would be such a difference.
I know a so called 'professional' ought to step in and soften the grief, but beware that your vulnerable position is bunce for them.
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/relationships_w/relationships_death_and_wills_e/dealing_with_the_financial_affairs_of_someone_who_has_died.htm
As Len says, it only becomes complex when there is disagreement and a number of beneficiaries or no will - but sounds like it's a simple execution needed here so value for money is key
I was executor for my Dad and to be honest I found it a more positive than negative experience as I was honouring his last wishes and felt that I was really doing it for him which sort of helped in a way.
Trust that the dear lady is in fine health which continues for many, many years to come :-)))
If her estate is large (property etc) I would advise to go to a solicitor, otherwise for smaller amounts (less than £100k) it's fairly easy to do yourself, especially if you've been managing her monies under an LPA.
Her maisonette had been rented via an agent to help pay for her monthly fees ( self funding) which were also responsible for reducing her savings to nil. A case of needs must.
Her 2 sons were the sole beneficiaries in her will so I took over the probate process using the forms/guides etc online & the only fee was apprx £250 for checking the forms /granting probate by the Probate Service. So, now it's just a case of selling the maisonette and we're done & dusted.
Obviously this was one of the most simplistic examples one could find but I believe it saved a fair amount of money.
PA - It's worth looking at the guide etc online at www.gov.uk/wills-probate .
My Mum has been very open with the three siblings about the will, so i know what is in it, and also know what finances she has, because basically I have helped her manage them. And I think the only issue between us would be what exactly to do with the house, but I guess a solicitor would say that is a matter for us to resolve anyway. So maybe the DIY approach isn't so daunting.
Anyway thank you all, it's been very helpful and I welcome any further thoughts. Cheers.
Mum had a will and our solicitor is a friend of ours and he will execute the will on my behalf.
I could of course do a fair bit myself but given that my employer has given me 3 days compassionate leave and I have my own family to deal with etc, etc. it makes a degree of sense (to me at least) to leave it with him to sort out.
Yes it may cost me around 2% but it will get done and dusted.
As I know from the last few days there is a lot to do (especially when you're an only child) so it's a good idea to think about what there is to do in the aftermath of a death and to accept that no-one can do everything without running themselves into the ground either physically or mentally.
Thanks for taking the time to reply at this difficult time for you.
If you have elderly parents it's the best thing you can persuade them to do as it saves so much hassle if they lose capacity and you have to go through the court of protection.
In fact the last one was my father in law, 3 years ago when the Olympics was on, I mention that because the probate office in Holborn were not seeing the public?..... Not closed just not seeing the public. The local probate office in Woolwich had been closed, so unless we wanted to go to Peterborough I think it was not going to be that quick. In the end it was quite a smooth and simple process and the probate service were quite helpful, BUT we are not an immensely wealthy family, and with no divorces, and estranged children and family fall out's there was no real issue that anyone would contest anything. In other words a simple split of all the estate between 2 parties.
When people are in care and there is property involved, then it would be wise to at least get advice. Advice could mean a solicitor, or someone who can assist you through the process. You will find it easier if you have the original will, ( so find out who has it). You may get involved with inheritance tax, but probably for most people if you do, then there should not be an issue with paying for legal advice,
Keep all the paper work for a few years, and all the receipts. Just in case your 'long lost brother' turns up from Australia, claiming has a claim to half of the estate, an has been in the outback sheep farming, so only just got to hear about it?.
It is little more than doing your tax forms in essence, and personally if you are compliant, and truthful there should not be any issue. We had to fill in tax forms anyway, because my father in law had a pension, and savings. There were no, bars of gold, or pots of gold sovereign's, just a couple of old wedding rings and they were kept anyway, and handed down to children etc.
Essentially probate is just about identifying the correct forms for your circumstances, filling them in and submitting them. As others have said, the real problems come when you start distributing the estate among the beneficiaries - if that is likely to be an issue it may be worth employing the services of a solicitor or someone independent so that everyone can see that it's fair and complies with the wishes expressed in the will.
Recently a friend suffered a bereavement and he was offered a very good deal by Barclays Bank, who did the probate forms for 2 or 3 hundred quid (can't remember which). It's well worth taking an offer like that.
However if you still prefer to do it yourself please be mindful that executors / administrators are legally personally liable for the debts of the deceased if there were originally sufficient funds in the estate to cover those debts but they have subsequently distributed them.
The "biggy," particularly in London, is likely to be inheritance tax. As a very rough rule of thumb if the total value of the estate is under £325,000 then you should be OK BUT even modest houses in SE London are worth more than that and that is before you consider anything else that might be in the estate.
It's important, once probate is granted, for executors to widely advertise the death and give a time limit (3 months say) for any creditors or others who think they have a claim against the estate to come out of the woodwork. A national and local newspaper should be sufficient and, if you can as a non-professional I've never tried, the London Gazette.
Once the 3 months (or however long) have expired, assuming no claims, you can safely distribute the estate as you will be deemed in law to have done all that you reasonably can to trace creditors of the deceased.
Sorry to hear about your mother @iainambler. I lost my mother too last month and in fact today would have been her birthday coincidentally.
You would also be wise to set up a separate account so that all transactions can be explained and accounted for. Do not underestimate the possibility of suspicion being cast, if only because others may not understand the processes. Many think that the executor is the same as being a beneficiary because they are often the same entity, but you are acting in with two very different hats on. You should not be out of pocket for your expenses as executor and you want to make sure they do not look like payments to you as beneficiary.
On the question of personal liability, you as the executor might still be liable if things go wrong, even if you appoint a professional as your agent/advisor, it would just be that you might have someone to sue. For that reason, if you are using a solicitor it would normally be through making him the executor. That fee would be much higher than just helping you work through the Probate process. A solicitor would argue that the fees for acting as executor are ad valorem, because there is a potential liability being assumed that is directly related to the value of the estate.
Sure it is possible to do it yourself but my gut feeling would be its not worth the hassle. Yes 2% of a big number is a lot, but what about the other 98% should anything go wrong or you make a mistake because its not your area of expertise?
If it is a vanilla transaction, then you should be able to get them to agree to a fee and no % element.
Watts and Leeding in New Eltham are good for probate. I dont know if they are cheap.
Follow @seth plum's advice and check out the Gov.uk site .. incidentally '.gov.uk' is invaluable for all kinds of information on matters legal and governmental