"Parking Eye, for one, seem prepared to fight their corner in Court and claim to win 90% of the cases"
I think that 90% pay up when papers for a Court Hearing are issued. If you go along with the small claims Court process and are disputing the claim it does not affect your credit rating because the Court will simply determine whether or not you owe money. As long as you then pay, you have not defaulted and there are no consequences for your credit history. Most successful claims are where the demands are simply ignored and it goes to Court uncontested and the judgement automatically goes against you.
The only successful contested case I have seen was on private land where you had no right to park and were being warned off from parking at all, not a money making unfair commercial arrangement.
Conduct your self reasonably, offer to pay what you think is fair and they will just pick on the easy pickings, mainly those who ignore them and submit to the uncontested court process. The successful numbers also include people who were given CCJs because the DVLA address was out of date and the driver never received any papers.
I also have a query, not as oppressive as Len's. I used the Forest Hill Sainsburys car park just after Xmas I believe. It is free up to 2 hours, something like £1.50 after that for each hour, provided you display a ticket. Stupid me, only popped in their for 20 minutes to do a shop, but even though it was free just forgot to get a display ticket as I was in a rush. When I got back I had a PCN. Quite rightly, as the parking attendant was just doing their job and wasn't to know I had only been there 20 minutes, there was no ticket to show this.
I kept the receipt from the shop which had on it the time of the shop 12.16pm, the PCN was issued at 12.12pm
I sent off my appeal saying it was a genuine mistake, with receipt as evidence, stating I simply forgot to get a display ticket. A couple of things bug me. I sent my appeal off over a month ago now, I hope they received it, because I've heard nothing back. I don't want them to think I'm just ignoring the ticket or refusing to pay it as that may lead to more demands of penalty fees etc.
Although it was a Sainsburys car park it was under Lewisham council I got the ticket.
Has this happened to anyone before, do you think they will accept my appeal, bear in mind I have provided a reciept?
The nice thing about larger companies like Sainsbury's etc is that if the parking company refuse your appeal, sometimes it's possible to get them to intervene. If you write a letter to Sainsbury's supplying all the information and a copy of your receipt and detail your outrage that a paying customer could not only be harrassed by their chosen contractor, but that they refuse to hear your appeal despite providing evidence that you were actually shopping at the time of your ticket. Sainsbury's don't want to lose valuable customers, particularly at a time when supermarket's are so competitive. It is possible that Sainsbury's will get the ticket cancelled for you, they do hold the power to do that. You might have to write a letter to someone very high up to get action however, many managers will just refer you to the parking company.
This is where I've messed up I think. I sent off the appeal with receipt by post, no recorded delivery etc. The only thing I've got now is the photo of the receipt I took before sending it off. Who knows.
Well, you should be okay, I think, thanks to The Interpretation Act 1978!
Section 7 states:
References to service by post.
Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.
So, you've got the receipt, by law, that means that delivery is deemed to have taken place a couple of days later - whether it did or not!
This would only be applicable if proof of posting was obtained from the post office. With no proof of posting, it's unlikely that this would stand up.
"Parking Eye, for one, seem prepared to fight their corner in Court and claim to win 90% of the cases"
I think that 90% pay up when papers for a Court Hearing are issued. If you go along with the small claims Court process and are disputing the claim it does not affect your credit rating because the Court will simply determine whether or not you owe money. As long as you then pay, you have not defaulted and there are no consequences for your credit history. Most successful claims are where the demands are simply ignored and it goes to Court uncontested and the judgement automatically goes against you.
The only successful contested case I have seen was on private land where you had no right to park and were being warned off from parking at all, not a money making unfair commercial arrangement.
Conduct your self reasonably, offer to pay what you think is fair and they will just pick on the easy pickings, mainly those who ignore them and submit to the uncontested court process. The successful numbers also include people who were given CCJs because the DVLA address was out of date and the driver never received any papers.
It depends what 'cases' Parking Eye are referring to. Are they referring to cases that have been won via POPLA or are they talking about court cases. I would suggest it's the former.
I also have a query, not as oppressive as Len's. I used the Forest Hill Sainsburys car park just after Xmas I believe. It is free up to 2 hours, something like £1.50 after that for each hour, provided you display a ticket. Stupid me, only popped in their for 20 minutes to do a shop, but even though it was free just forgot to get a display ticket as I was in a rush. When I got back I had a PCN. Quite rightly, as the parking attendant was just doing their job and wasn't to know I had only been there 20 minutes, there was no ticket to show this.
I kept the receipt from the shop which had on it the time of the shop 12.16pm, the PCN was issued at 12.12pm
I sent off my appeal saying it was a genuine mistake, with receipt as evidence, stating I simply forgot to get a display ticket. A couple of things bug me. I sent my appeal off over a month ago now, I hope they received it, because I've heard nothing back. I don't want them to think I'm just ignoring the ticket or refusing to pay it as that may lead to more demands of penalty fees etc.
Although it was a Sainsburys car park it was under Lewisham council I got the ticket.
Has this happened to anyone before, do you think they will accept my appeal, bear in mind I have provided a reciept?
The nice thing about larger companies like Sainsbury's etc is that if the parking company refuse your appeal, sometimes it's possible to get them to intervene. If you write a letter to Sainsbury's supplying all the information and a copy of your receipt and detail your outrage that a paying customer could not only be harrassed by their chosen contractor, but that they refuse to hear your appeal despite providing evidence that you were actually shopping at the time of your ticket. Sainsbury's don't want to lose valuable customers, particularly at a time when supermarket's are so competitive. It is possible that Sainsbury's will get the ticket cancelled for you, they do hold the power to do that. You might have to write a letter to someone very high up to get action however, many managers will just refer you to the parking company.
This is where I've messed up I think. I sent off the appeal with receipt by post, no recorded delivery etc. The only thing I've got now is the photo of the receipt I took before sending it off. Who knows.
Well, you should be okay, I think, thanks to The Interpretation Act 1978!
Section 7 states:
References to service by post.
Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.
So, you've got the receipt, by law, that means that delivery is deemed to have taken place a couple of days later - whether it did or not!
This would only be applicable if proof of posting was obtained from the post office. With no proof of posting, it's unlikely that this would stand up.
Personally for stuff like the tear-off strip on a V5 going back to the notorious DVLA, I always take a photo of the filled-in slip and the stamped envelope. But I'm paranoid and whether that would be sufficient in the event of a dispute - who knows.
Whatever the circumstances .. Whenever I have run foul of 'parking regulations' where a separate company runs the parking enforcement for (e.g.) ASDA or Travelodge, I have written to the main company (e.g.) ASDA stating that if the 'fine' is not revoked, I will never use their company again, show some proof that I am a regular customer, and threaten to tell everybody I know about the shabby treatment I have received and write letters to the press/bloggers about their disgraceful treatment of a loyal customer. So far (three occasions) this has proved very effective. I emphasise that my 'digressions' were not deliberate, merely a misunderstanding of complicated or inconsistent parking rules. Also, as to private companies not using the courts to enforce their 'fines', I know several cases where the company has used the courts, resulting in heavy costs and well as enforcement to pay the original sum.
I also have a query, not as oppressive as Len's. I used the Forest Hill Sainsburys car park just after Xmas I believe. It is free up to 2 hours, something like £1.50 after that for each hour, provided you display a ticket. Stupid me, only popped in their for 20 minutes to do a shop, but even though it was free just forgot to get a display ticket as I was in a rush. When I got back I had a PCN. Quite rightly, as the parking attendant was just doing their job and wasn't to know I had only been there 20 minutes, there was no ticket to show this.
I kept the receipt from the shop which had on it the time of the shop 12.16pm, the PCN was issued at 12.12pm
I sent off my appeal saying it was a genuine mistake, with receipt as evidence, stating I simply forgot to get a display ticket. A couple of things bug me. I sent my appeal off over a month ago now, I hope they received it, because I've heard nothing back. I don't want them to think I'm just ignoring the ticket or refusing to pay it as that may lead to more demands of penalty fees etc.
Although it was a Sainsburys car park it was under Lewisham council I got the ticket.
Has this happened to anyone before, do you think they will accept my appeal, bear in mind I have provided a reciept?
The nice thing about larger companies like Sainsbury's etc is that if the parking company refuse your appeal, sometimes it's possible to get them to intervene. If you write a letter to Sainsbury's supplying all the information and a copy of your receipt and detail your outrage that a paying customer could not only be harrassed by their chosen contractor, but that they refuse to hear your appeal despite providing evidence that you were actually shopping at the time of your ticket. Sainsbury's don't want to lose valuable customers, particularly at a time when supermarket's are so competitive. It is possible that Sainsbury's will get the ticket cancelled for you, they do hold the power to do that. You might have to write a letter to someone very high up to get action however, many managers will just refer you to the parking company.
This is where I've messed up I think. I sent off the appeal with receipt by post, no recorded delivery etc. The only thing I've got now is the photo of the receipt I took before sending it off. Who knows.
Well, you should be okay, I think, thanks to The Interpretation Act 1978!
Section 7 states:
References to service by post.
Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.
So, you've got the receipt, by law, that means that delivery is deemed to have taken place a couple of days later - whether it did or not!
I also have a query, not as oppressive as Len's. I used the Forest Hill Sainsburys car park just after Xmas I believe. It is free up to 2 hours, something like £1.50 after that for each hour, provided you display a ticket. Stupid me, only popped in their for 20 minutes to do a shop, but even though it was free just forgot to get a display ticket as I was in a rush. When I got back I had a PCN. Quite rightly, as the parking attendant was just doing their job and wasn't to know I had only been there 20 minutes, there was no ticket to show this.
I kept the receipt from the shop which had on it the time of the shop 12.16pm, the PCN was issued at 12.12pm
I sent off my appeal saying it was a genuine mistake, with receipt as evidence, stating I simply forgot to get a display ticket. A couple of things bug me. I sent my appeal off over a month ago now, I hope they received it, because I've heard nothing back. I don't want them to think I'm just ignoring the ticket or refusing to pay it as that may lead to more demands of penalty fees etc.
Although it was a Sainsburys car park it was under Lewisham council I got the ticket.
Has this happened to anyone before, do you think they will accept my appeal, bear in mind I have provided a reciept?
The nice thing about larger companies like Sainsbury's etc is that if the parking company refuse your appeal, sometimes it's possible to get them to intervene. If you write a letter to Sainsbury's supplying all the information and a copy of your receipt and detail your outrage that a paying customer could not only be harrassed by their chosen contractor, but that they refuse to hear your appeal despite providing evidence that you were actually shopping at the time of your ticket. Sainsbury's don't want to lose valuable customers, particularly at a time when supermarket's are so competitive. It is possible that Sainsbury's will get the ticket cancelled for you, they do hold the power to do that. You might have to write a letter to someone very high up to get action however, many managers will just refer you to the parking company.
This is where I've messed up I think. I sent off the appeal with receipt by post, no recorded delivery etc. The only thing I've got now is the photo of the receipt I took before sending it off. Who knows.
Well that might be a problem. Typically the parking companies realise that once they have original evidence in their possession, they hold all the aces. Often appellants do not keep copies. Personally I would only ever send copies of evidence and state in my appeal that the originals are being withheld in case an appeal to POLPLA or PATAS is required. When companies read this, they usually realise that the person sending the appeal is savvy and will either deal with the appeal process properly or they will cancel the ticket just to avoid any further hassle. I would try to contact them (by phone if possible) to ask for an update on your appeal and hope that they are dealing with your appeal honestly.
Thanks West. Yeah I went through Lewisham council to find out what the hold up was, they said they will look into it for me. If I have to pay the £40 (if you pay within 14 days of appeal failing then so be it) I just didn't want them to think I was ignoring the ticket and hence more fees.
Too much trust that if I sent off the receipt that would be okay I guess
If your appeal is with Lewisham Council, there's a greater chance that they will deal with it honestly. Having worked for both Local Authorities and private parking management companies, I have far more faith in the council processes than the private firms.
I think so. Thanks both. Completely my fault for forgetting a pay and display ticket, but that's what bugs me, sometimes you do make honest mistakes. The fact I have the receipt hopefully backs that up.
Also evidence of having been inside Sainsburys at or around the time the PCN was issued should count for a lot, as I pointed out that no 33 year old self respecting male would want to spend more than 2 hours shopping there
Interesting. Particularly as I'm about to send off a V5 slip. I might video myself putting it into a postbox and keep it stored on my phone for a while...
The pay by phone thing is one to watch out for as well.
A couple of years back I was working in Bromley , paid by phone for two hours but when I returned to my van 90 minutes later there was a ticket on it . I realised after checking that I had accidentally clicked on my previous van reg which I'd forgotten to delete. Spoke politely to the warden who issued it and he said appeal it as you will be able to prove you've paid and it was a genuine mistake. Appealed it and Bromley council cancelled it and told me to be more careful next time.
Fast forward to last year I took the family to Gravesend on the Saturday before Christmas and decided to park on the street not quite in town as I didn't want to get stuck in a multi story if it got busy. Got back to the car and there was a ticket. Turned out I'd used the reg on the app for my work van but was in my car , wasn't worried as I remembered what happened before so I appealed and sent off all the relevant info , I could even prove my van wasn't there as I have a tracker on it. The appeal was refused meaning if I then wanted to take it further and lost I would have to pay the full amount.
My mistake obviously but the fact that I could quite clearly prove I had actually paid has made me pissed off , no wonder people would rather go to the likes of Bluewater and Lakeside where parking is free and unlimited and town centres are dying.
So you made a ricket, were lucky enough to be let off and warned to be more careful, then made the exact same ricket, weren't let off and are moaning about it?
Look - I hate parking fines as much as the next person. Attempting to park pretty much anywhere near a town centre in London is a soul-destroying experience, and yes - I agree that it's at least partially responsible for the death of the town centre as a shopping destination. But your post just seems like the same I see or hear from everyone else who gets caught out through carelessness, or thinks the rules are too strictly enforced.
The problem with what may seem like perfectly valid reasons to you are that the rules are in place not for the scrupulous, but for the unscrupulous. I'd say that you should have considered yourself extremely lucky that you got off the first ticket, because people sharing tickets between cars is something councils have been trying to clamp down on for years.
I'm not being confrontational here - and the OP about parking on private land and being clamped then charged extortionate release fees or threatened with fines is disgusting. But comparing your experience with that isn't even in the same ballpark
The point you don't seem to grasp here is I happily paid for my parking , not as if I didn't . Like I said , I made a mistake , the particular app for parking in Gravesend doesn't ask you before paying if the number plate is correct yet other ones do. There seems to be no common sense gone into my appeal to say "yes we can see you actually paid , just not for that vehicle"
Don't assume that common sense will prevail when dealing a parking company. If they think they can get you on a technicality, they will. It's all about the revenue. Things like common sense and customer service just do not apply.
Slightly off topic but I read somewhere (could have been here) that if you have a drive in front of your house with a dropped pavement allowing access, it is not illegal for someone to park across it if the drive is empty. It's only illegal if there is a car on it and so by parking across it you are restricting access to the public highway.
How is that possibly policed sensibly ?
Also, If I park across my own drive while there is a car in it am I doing so "illegally" ? There is no restricted parking in my road so no parking wardens - how would it all be monitiored etc ?
Slightly off topic but I read somewhere (could have been here) that if you have a drive in front of your house with a dropped pavement allowing access, it is not illegal for someone to park across it if the drive is empty. It's only illegal if there is a car on it and so by parking across it you are restricting access to the public highway.
How is that possibly policed sensibly ?
Also, If I park across my own drive while there is a car in it am I doing so "illegally" ? There is no restricted parking in my road so no parking wardens - how would it all be monitiored etc ?
Not sure PL, dug this out though
The Road Traffic Act 2004 states:
86 Prohibition of parking at dropped footways etc.
(1) In a special enforcement area a vehicle must not be parked on the carriageway adjacent to a footway, cycle track or verge where— (a) the footway, cycle track or verge has been lowered to meet the level of the carriageway for the purpose of— (i) assisting pedestrians crossing the carriageway, (ii) assisting cyclists entering or leaving the carriageway, or (iii) assisting vehicles entering or leaving the carriageway across the footway, cycle track or verge; or (b) the carriageway has, for a purpose within paragraph (a)(i) to (iii), been raised to meet the level of the footway, cycle track or verge. This is subject to the following exceptions. (2) The first exception is where the vehicle is parked wholly within a designated parking place or any other part of the carriageway where parking is specifically authorised. A “designated parking place” means a parking place designated by order under section 6, 9, 32(1)(b) or 45 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (c. 27).
On some other forum, a bloke said that the resident has to get the council/parking warden to enforce it. Not sure if that's correct either.
Put this way, I've never parked outside an empty drive, the only time I hear of it is people dropping their kids off etc
Slightly off topic but I read somewhere (could have been here) that if you have a drive in front of your house with a dropped pavement allowing access, it is not illegal for someone to park across it if the drive is empty. It's only illegal if there is a car on it and so by parking across it you are restricting access to the public highway.
How is that possibly policed sensibly ?
Also, If I park across my own drive while there is a car in it am I doing so "illegally" ? There is no restricted parking in my road so no parking wardens - how would it all be monitiored etc ?
Ok as long as the drop kerb has all the necessary council agreements then it's enforceable, whether there is a car on the driveway or not. Generally the way I used to handle it was that the resident would call us to say there is a car blocking their dropped kerb. We would send a unit to attend the scene. On arrival the Parking Attendant (PA) would knock on the resident's door and ask them to identify the vehicle. The PA would then proceed to log the car in his handheld and pocketbook (contravention code 27) and allow any grace period that was agreed with the council (usually there is none, more often than not it's an instant ticket). Once all details are logged and the ticket is ready to be issued the PA would ask the resident to check the details of the vehicle he has logged and put their signature next to the information.
We NEVER enforced private drop kerbs unless we were specifically called by a resident/owner. There had been instances in many other areas where a PA would book a car parked over a private dropped kerb only to find out later it was actually the resident blocking his own premises.
As I said in a previous post in this thread, parking laws are ambiguous and are interpreted differently throughout the country. Any contract manager worth his salt would get make agreements with the council on issues like this one and enforce accordingly. Through a number of years experience in the industry, I always found this approach to be the correct one.
I have finally received a reply from NCP/Dash/North Greenwich Car Park.
"Thank you for your appeal against the above Parking Charge Notice, on this occasion your appeal has been accepted."
The payment you made was for the registration AB12 and not your correct registration AB12CDE, please ensure when paying for parking, to enter the correct registration, otherwise you will be liable for a PCN."
I entered the first 4 digits on the screen, then someone behind pointed out the photo of my car on the screen and told me to press on the photo of my car, which I did. I believe this is the correct procedure, to speed things up. So that's why the "issue" arose. I'm putting it up here for info purposes.
Good stuff, found out mine today got rejected today. They basically said that there was clear signage that a ticket should be displayed and I got done for not displaying one. I accept it, I know it was my fault, I was just simply in too much of a rush and forgot.
I thought supplying them with the Sainsburys receipt showing a difference of 4 minutes between getting the ticket and me getting my shopping might help, but oh well.
Good stuff, found out mine today got rejected today. They basically said that there was clear signage that a ticket should be displayed and I got done for not displaying one. I accept it, I know it was my fault, I was just simply in too much of a rush and forgot.
I thought supplying them with the Sainsburys receipt showing a difference of 4 minutes between getting the ticket and me getting my shopping might help, but oh well.
Just read your original post Cabbles. Worth emailing/Facebooking/Twittering Sainsbury's rather than Lewisham council? Especially as you had a receipt.
Looks bad on Sainsbury's, loyal customer lost etc..
Good stuff, found out mine today got rejected today. They basically said that there was clear signage that a ticket should be displayed and I got done for not displaying one. I accept it, I know it was my fault, I was just simply in too much of a rush and forgot.
I thought supplying them with the Sainsburys receipt showing a difference of 4 minutes between getting the ticket and me getting my shopping might help, but oh well.
Just read your original post Cabbles. Worth emailing/Facebooking/Twittering Sainsbury's rather than Lewisham council? Especially as you had a receipt.
Looks bad on Sainsbury's, loyal customer lost etc..
Cheers mate, yeah might be worth a crack. I don't know what the relationship they have with the council and how strict they are. who knows. It's just one of those things where you think, there's a legit reason here, and evidence, but they've taken a hard line. I suppose they have to
If the PCN is issued by the council it is nothing to do with Sainsburys. The offence of not displaying a ticket is black and white, but the council do have discretion, they simply choose not to. I was rejected after providing proof I had bought a ticket (timed receipt for car park refund from Waitrose). Wrote to council CEO and MP and it was rescinded, I was repaid the £25 penalty I had paid.
I have finally received a reply from NCP/Dash/North Greenwich Car Park.
"Thank you for your appeal against the above Parking Charge Notice, on this occasion your appeal has been accepted."
The payment you made was for the registration AB12 and not your correct registration AB12CDE, please ensure when paying for parking, to enter the correct registration, otherwise you will be liable for a PCN."
I entered the first 4 digits on the screen, then someone behind pointed out the photo of my car on the screen and told me to press on the photo of my car, which I did. I believe this is the correct procedure, to speed things up. So that's why the "issue" arose. I'm putting it up here for info purposes.
If the PCN is issued by the council it is nothing to do with Sainsburys. The offence of not displaying a ticket is black and white, but the council do have discretion, they simply choose not to. I was rejected after providing proof I had bought a ticket (timed receipt for car park refund from Waitrose). Wrote to council CEO and MP and it was rescinded, I was repaid the £25 penalty I had paid.
that's the difference for me though, I forgot to get a ticket as I was in a rush. All I had was my receipt for the shop. I don't have any gripes about it, plus I know councils have piss all money these days anyway.
RAC report from barrister confirms private store "penalty" charges are unenforceable unless they change "penalties" to a straightforward unambiguous car park charge.
"In conclusion, it seems to me that we can draw the correct legal position is as follows: (1) Drivers who enter and park on private land with the permission of the owner do so under the terms of a contractual licence. (2) To be enforceable, the terms imposed by the operators have to be clearly brought to the attention of the drivers. (3) A term that imposes a charge for overstaying is in those circumstances probably not unfair within the meaning of the 1999 Regulations. (4) But a ‘discount’ for early payment probably is unfair because it is properly understood as a price escalation clause. (5) When operators erect signs that state expressly that there is a maximum period for parking and provide for a payment to be made upon failure to comply they are in fact imposing a sanction for breach of contract. (6) Payments at the level that operators presently demand as sanctions are unlikely to count as a genuine pre-estimate of loss; they should be seen by the Courts as penalties which means they are unenforceable."
So supermarkets will have to erect very simple signs saying for example you pay nothing for 1 hour and £100 for more than 1 hour, no arguments no confusion and an empty car park.
The noble Mr Beavis is taking his case to the Court of Appeal next week. Presumably, then, we will have the definitive answer and an actual precedent.
I guess Mr Beavis is still hopeful of running with the genuine pre-estimate of loss argument. Meanwhile, Parking Eye must be wishing they had let him off - the last thing they need is an actual ruling - unless they win of course!
Press coverage suggests that motorists will be in line for repayment. I think that's unlikely - if the parking contractors don't win, they will merely cease to exist I expect.
Yes you have a point, but I think the opinion is based on a rather more learned assessment than the Circuit Judge who used the material "helpfully provided by the Claimants...." and the defendants had no legal counsel. The status of the Court means it has no value as a precedent for any other case and they would all turn on different points of detail.
Going to the High Court is a good thing. If the parking company loses the High Court judgement I can see it going all the way up the ladder because the parking companies have £billions on the line.
My sense of natural justice says it surely should be outlawed, all parking can be controlled by charging, not by extracting penalties for breaching terms of free parking. Unlike authorities who arguably are trying to control traffic and congestion, the private parking scam is purely commercial and loaded against the consumer with no regulation on fairness, as applies to every other service we buy as consumers.
Comments
I think that 90% pay up when papers for a Court Hearing are issued. If you go along with the small claims Court process and are disputing the claim it does not affect your credit rating because the Court will simply determine whether or not you owe money. As long as you then pay, you have not defaulted and there are no consequences for your credit history. Most successful claims are where the demands are simply ignored and it goes to Court uncontested and the judgement automatically goes against you.
The only successful contested case I have seen was on private land where you had no right to park and were being warned off from parking at all, not a money making unfair commercial arrangement.
Conduct your self reasonably, offer to pay what you think is fair and they will just pick on the easy pickings, mainly those who ignore them and submit to the uncontested court process. The successful numbers also include people who were given CCJs because the DVLA address was out of date and the driver never received any papers.
Personally for stuff like the tear-off strip on a V5 going back to the notorious DVLA, I always take a photo of the filled-in slip and the stamped envelope. But I'm paranoid and whether that would be sufficient in the event of a dispute - who knows.
Also, as to private companies not using the courts to enforce their 'fines', I know several cases where the company has used the courts, resulting in heavy costs and well as enforcement to pay the original sum.
Also evidence of having been inside Sainsburys at or around the time the PCN was issued should count for a lot, as I pointed out that no 33 year old self respecting male would want to spend more than 2 hours shopping there
How is that possibly policed sensibly ?
Also, If I park across my own drive while there is a car in it am I doing so "illegally" ? There is no restricted parking in my road so no parking wardens - how would it all be monitiored etc ?
The Road Traffic Act 2004 states:
86 Prohibition of parking at dropped footways etc.
(1) In a special enforcement area a vehicle must not be parked on the carriageway adjacent to a footway, cycle track or verge where—
(a) the footway, cycle track or verge has been lowered to meet the level of the carriageway for the purpose of—
(i) assisting pedestrians crossing the carriageway,
(ii) assisting cyclists entering or leaving the carriageway, or
(iii) assisting vehicles entering or leaving the carriageway across the footway, cycle track or verge; or
(b) the carriageway has, for a purpose within paragraph (a)(i) to (iii), been raised to meet the level of the footway, cycle track or verge.
This is subject to the following exceptions.
(2) The first exception is where the vehicle is parked wholly within a designated parking place or any other part of the carriageway where parking is specifically authorised.
A “designated parking place” means a parking place designated by order under section 6, 9, 32(1)(b) or 45 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (c. 27).
On some other forum, a bloke said that the resident has to get the council/parking warden to enforce it. Not sure if that's correct either.
Put this way, I've never parked outside an empty drive, the only time I hear of it is people dropping their kids off etc
We NEVER enforced private drop kerbs unless we were specifically called by a resident/owner. There had been instances in many other areas where a PA would book a car parked over a private dropped kerb only to find out later it was actually the resident blocking his own premises.
As I said in a previous post in this thread, parking laws are ambiguous and are interpreted differently throughout the country. Any contract manager worth his salt would get make agreements with the council on issues like this one and enforce accordingly. Through a number of years experience in the industry, I always found this approach to be the correct one.
"Thank you for your appeal against the above Parking Charge Notice, on this occasion your appeal has been accepted."
The payment you made was for the registration AB12 and not your correct registration AB12CDE, please ensure when paying for parking, to enter the correct registration, otherwise you will be liable for a PCN."
I entered the first 4 digits on the screen, then someone behind pointed out the photo of my car on the screen and told me to press on the photo of my car, which I did. I believe this is the correct procedure, to speed things up.
So that's why the "issue" arose. I'm putting it up here for info purposes.
NB That is obviously not my car reg :-)
I thought supplying them with the Sainsburys receipt showing a difference of 4 minutes between getting the ticket and me getting my shopping might help, but oh well.
Looks bad on Sainsbury's, loyal customer lost etc..
I was rejected after providing proof I had bought a ticket (timed receipt for car park refund from Waitrose). Wrote to council CEO and MP and it was rescinded, I was repaid the £25 penalty I had paid.
"In conclusion, it seems to me that we can draw the correct legal position is as follows:
(1) Drivers who enter and park on private land with the permission of the owner do so under the terms of a contractual licence.
(2) To be enforceable, the terms imposed by the operators have to be clearly brought to the attention of the drivers.
(3) A term that imposes a charge for overstaying is in those circumstances probably not unfair within the meaning of the 1999 Regulations.
(4) But a ‘discount’ for early payment probably is unfair because it is properly understood as a price escalation clause.
(5) When operators erect signs that state expressly that there is a maximum period for parking and provide for a payment to be made upon failure to comply they are in fact imposing a sanction for breach of contract.
(6) Payments at the level that operators presently demand as sanctions are unlikely to count as a genuine pre-estimate of loss; they should be seen by the Courts as penalties which means they are unenforceable."
So supermarkets will have to erect very simple signs saying for example you pay nothing for 1 hour and £100 for more than 1 hour, no arguments no confusion and an empty car park.
Clearly the Circuit Judge in this matter debtrecoveryplus.co.uk/debtor/ParkingEye%20v%20Beavis%20and%20Wardley%20Judgment.pdf had a different opinion. The interesting bits are at 7, in particular, 7.16 and 7.17.
The noble Mr Beavis is taking his case to the Court of Appeal next week. Presumably, then, we will have the definitive answer and an actual precedent.
I guess Mr Beavis is still hopeful of running with the genuine pre-estimate of loss argument. Meanwhile, Parking Eye must be wishing they had let him off - the last thing they need is an actual ruling - unless they win of course!
Press coverage suggests that motorists will be in line for repayment. I think that's unlikely - if the parking contractors don't win, they will merely cease to exist I expect.
Going to the High Court is a good thing. If the parking company loses the High Court judgement I can see it going all the way up the ladder because the parking companies have £billions on the line.
My sense of natural justice says it surely should be outlawed, all parking can be controlled by charging, not by extracting penalties for breaching terms of free parking. Unlike authorities who arguably are trying to control traffic and congestion, the private parking scam is purely commercial and loaded against the consumer with no regulation on fairness, as applies to every other service we buy as consumers.