In the short term I think the problem is Meire. She is willing to spout Duchatlets lines but when questioned about it she ends up just saying “well that’s the way Roland does things”. She is beaten in arguments on trains by blokes who have been on the sauce. She is willing to meet with the fans forum, so could any non-Trust representatives resign from it so in effect it becomes a de-facto Trust meeting? Thus questioning her more closely on the business plan if it exists and staying away from Bovril issues. Showing her up to be out iof her depth and unwilling to take any constructive advice from people who want to help. Duchatlet may then choose to move her elsewhere in the network. I still don't get Murrays position maybe he will have a part to play? Good meeting last night, had to leave at 9 so missed any conclusion. Anyone saying people were shouted down were not there and are talking tosh.
However others may feel, (and I am not going down the "disgruntled employee" route) he needs to take a step back.
There is an animosity there (not necessarily from his viewpoint) that will drive a wedge between the club and the fans if he remains so vociferous.
Who else will step up if he doesn't?
What happens if no one steps up?
This isn't aimed, specifically, at you ESL but I'm getting a bit fed up with people that can't be bothered to do anything to help but feel justified in deciding who isn't allowed to!
I was there last night but I have neither the time nor the inclination to challenge the club, or those running it. I'm just grateful for those that will do so, on my behalf.
However others may feel, (and I am not going down the "disgruntled employee" route) he needs to take a step back.
There is an animosity there (not necessarily from his viewpoint) that will drive a wedge between the club and the fans if he remains so vociferous.
Who else will step up if he doesn't?
What happens if no one steps up?
This isn't aimed, specifically, at you ESL but I'm getting a bit fed up with people that can't be bothered to do anything to help but feel justified in deciding who isn't allowed to!
I was there last night but I have neither the time nor the inclination to challenge the club, or those running it. I'm just grateful for those that will do so, on my behalf.
"Tonight was exactly what I expected. Big turnout of numbers (and that should not be played down in any way) of disenchanted people, but no singular approach and reason of why they are disenchanted and what should collectively be done about it."
So bar getting numbers together, what was the point?
perhaps you should have come along?
Why not answer the question?
Anyway, pleased that it seems it didn't get hi-jacked by a more militant sect.
But as Falconwood_1 has said Having read this thread I still don't get the point.
The club have already told you where the lines of communication are, but seemingly that isn't good enough so you are going to continue (maybe, because it doesn't appear to be confirmed anywhere) to bang your heads against a Roland sized brickwall. Sorry, but no amount of "tub thumping" is going to bring him to the table.
So I ask the same question, what was the point?
What is the alternative? Doing nothing certainly won't change the status quo. I don't have a crystal ball and only time will tell if the ride gets smother or not but at least last nights meeting should generate media coverage, BBC London news was mentioned, and might, just might make RD take notice and get the disenchanted fans on board.
Given KM's intransigent stance there was a certain amount of support to concentrate on getting Richard Murray, who apparently is sympathetic to the growing sense of frustration amongst the fans, to further an approach for more dialogue.
I got the feeling that the majority last night want reconciliation not revolution and if it proves to have been a waste of time then so be it but nothing ventured nothing gained!
the club told us they had nothing to add, then immediately went out when we organised this meeting and did a PR stunt with a 15 year old lad.
The point of the meeting was as has been stated, earlier on. I understand people being realistic, but why not go to the meeting rather than slating it?
The very least of it is to show that there are a lot of genuinely concerned fans who see that that something is going badly wrong including the quite public falling away of some of our long term supporters. Personally I think that is reason enough. People last night braved the cold to go to a public meeting, with no players, no club reps, and packed out a hall.
There weren't 25 or a hundred there were over 400 and I think thats a big deal personally. It was a positive act by people who want to do something rather than just bitch about it on message boards. I take it pretty seriously as it hasn't happened for nearly a generation at this club.
What comes next is important I agree, we'll see what happens over coming weeks, I think reasonably last night achieved all it was going to, not an easy thing to do in itself. How much further it goes will depend how deep the feeling runs among fans.
To answer Marks point from Twitter, 'we' did have public meetings during the TJ era, we formed a supporters' trust if you recall, and we did it through a lot of hard work, from the first 100 members to now 1100 who give up their fivers for very few benefits if any, other than supporting the Trust. We built it by standing in the rain talking to real fans, and giving out TNT.
Having read through most of the posts on here and having watched the VIP vid. I hate to burst your bubble but these meetings will not change a thing.
Yes historically fans have made a difference to our club, but that was then, this is now. All the posturing, all the impassioned speeches, all the militant 'demands' to RD will be ignored, in a 'go f*ck yourself' attitude cos its his club. Its his money, its up to him to make a success of it, because he stands to lose far more than all of us put together. I will be surprised if RD will speak to any fans rep. Ever. Thats what KM is CEO for.
OK, people are saying they will not renew their ST's (at the moment) but should we climb the table then they will.
Forget meetings like this, forget VIP meetings, forget 15 year old kids asking a few staged Q's. The only way to get our collective point across (whatever it is), is to have 4 or 5 fans to meet KM and open a dialogue of transparent (where possible) communication with the club. Or how about a fans supporter on the board, just a thought!
Finally if results swing back round in our favour, it will all be forgotten.
If Duchatelet sacked Meire, or gave her another job elsewhere and said something along the lines of i want what is best for the fans and the club and want to listen to them and the communication between my team and them has broken down and i will fix it. A message like that, fair to Meire or not would put things on a new footing. I do think she is to blame for a lot of this and this is down to inexperience as much as anything else. The job is probably a bit too early for her - strange country, strange league, strange fans etc...
the club told us they had nothing to add, then immediately went out when we organised this meeting and did a PR stunt with a 15 year old lad.
The point of the meeting was as has been stated, earlier on. I understand people being realistic, but why not go to the meeting rather than slating it?
The very least of it is to show that there are a lot of genuinely concerned fans who see that that something is going badly wrong including the quite public falling away of some of our long term supporters. Personally I think that is reason enough. People last night braved the cold to go to a public meeting, with no players, no club reps, and packed out a hall.
There weren't 25 or a hundred there were over 400 and I think thats a big deal personally. It was a positive act by people who want to do something rather than just bitch about it on message boards. I take it pretty seriously as it hasn't happened for nearly a generation at this club.
What comes next is important I agree, we'll see what happens over coming weeks, I think reasonably last night achieved all it was going to, not an easy thing to do in itself. How much further it goes will depend how deep the feeling runs among fans.
To answer Marks point from Twitter, 'we' did have public meetings during the TJ era, we formed a supporters' trust if you recall, and we did it through a lot of hard work, from the first 100 members to now 1100 who give up their fivers for very few benefits if any, other than supporting the Trust. We built it by standing in the rain talking to real fans, and giving out TNT.
the club told us they had nothing to add, then immediately went out when we organised this meeting and did a PR stunt with a 15 year old lad.
The point of the meeting was as has been stated, earlier on. I understand people being realistic, but why not go to the meeting rather than slating it?
The very least of it is to show that there are a lot of genuinely concerned fans who see that that something is going badly wrong including the quite public falling away of some of our long term supporters. Personally I think that is reason enough. People last night braved the cold to go to a public meeting, with no players, no club reps, and packed out a hall.
There weren't 25 or a hundred there were over 400 and I think thats a big deal personally. It was a positive act by people who want to do something rather than just bitch about it on message boards. I take it pretty seriously as it hasn't happened for nearly a generation at this club.
What comes next is important I agree, we'll see what happens over coming weeks, I think reasonably last night achieved all it was going to, not an easy thing to do in itself. How much further it goes will depend how deep the feeling runs among fans.
To answer Marks point from Twitter, 'we' did have public meetings during the TJ era, we formed a supporters' trust if you recall, and we did it through a lot of hard work, from the first 100 members to now 1100 who give up their fivers for very few benefits if any, other than supporting the Trust. We built it by standing in the rain talking to real fans, and giving out TNT.
Razil in defensive response shocker......
Who's slating the meeting? I've said all along "good luck to you, but I don't think you'll achieve anything"
I'm still struggling. You got 400 people in a room. Some of them expressed concerns about the ownership, 100s of people have been doing the same thing on the internet for months. Why is this any different?
"Tonight was exactly what I expected. Big turnout of numbers (and that should not be played down in any way) of disenchanted people, but no singular approach and reason of why they are disenchanted and what should collectively be done about it."
So bar getting numbers together, what was the point?
perhaps you should have come along?
Why not answer the question?
Anyway, pleased that it seems it didn't get hi-jacked by a more militant sect.
But as Falconwood_1 has said Having read this thread I still don't get the point.
The club have already told you where the lines of communication are, but seemingly that isn't good enough so you are going to continue (maybe, because it doesn't appear to be confirmed anywhere) to bang your heads against a Roland sized brickwall. Sorry, but no amount of "tub thumping" is going to bring him to the table.
So I ask the same question, what was the point?
"The purpose of the meeting is to give all Charlton Athletic supporters an opportunity to air and discuss their views of the current situation of the club"
That's what we said before the meeting and the views from the people that are there seems to be that we pretty much managed that.
We tried our best to make people who couldn't attend feel included by being able to email in their views, some of which we read out. We also used Twitter as well to make those who weren't able to attend feel included.
Having read through most of the posts on here and having watched the VIP vid. I hate to burst your bubble but these meetings will not change a thing.
Yes historically fans have made a difference to our club, but that was then, this is now. All the posturing, all the impassioned speeches, all the militant 'demands' to RD will be ignored, in a 'go f*ck yourself' attitude cos its his club. Its his money, its up to him to make a success of it, because he stands to lose far more than all of us put together. I will be surprised if RD will speak to any fans rep. Ever. Thats what KM is CEO for.
OK, people are saying they will not renew their ST's (at the moment) but should we climb the table then they will.
Forget meetings like this, forget VIP meetings, forget 15 year old kids asking a few staged Q's. The only way to get our collective point across (whatever it is), is to have 4 or 5 fans to meet KM and open a dialogue of transparent (where possible) communication with the club. Or how about a fans supporter on the board, just a thought!
Finally if results swing back round in our favour, it will all be forgotten.
I actually totally agree with your final point Greenie, but its how we get there.
I don't agree about results, but realistically we aint gonna win the league any time soon, and certainly not with the very limited ambitions our super rich owners seems to have.
I think we have to be patient, a meeting like this was a very early step, and if only 20 had turned up, we would know there were very few who shared the concern.
"Tonight was exactly what I expected. Big turnout of numbers (and that should not be played down in any way) of disenchanted people, but no singular approach and reason of why they are disenchanted and what should collectively be done about it."
So bar getting numbers together, what was the point?
Must have bumped into or introduced for the first time a good 100+ people who post on here tonight, and it was great seeing again, or meeting you all for the first time.
There were a couple of speakers on the floor I don't know who mentioned CL, both pro and against RD and co, thought you both spoke excellently.
AFKA, I was the one at the front of the hall who spoke near the end of the open floor discussions (ie before the way forward bit) about CL and if there was any knowledge of background consortiums who may still be around to launch a buy out. Saw loads of old faces, but sadly don't know you, otherwise would have introduced myself. Mind you it was so cold, I might have kept my hands in my pockets.
Just to say Rick's speech was excellent - I was in the second row and his left hand was shaking throughout. I am sure it was not nerves, probably emotion and anger at seeing a lot of things he had helped to create be dismantled by the last and current administrations.
Never been one of Clarke's greatest fans, but he chaired it excellently last night. Well done all.
Having read through most of the posts on here and having watched the VIP vid. I hate to burst your bubble but these meetings will not change a thing.
Yes historically fans have made a difference to our club, but that was then, this is now. All the posturing, all the impassioned speeches, all the militant 'demands' to RD will be ignored, in a 'go f*ck yourself' attitude cos its his club. Its his money, its up to him to make a success of it, because he stands to lose far more than all of us put together. I will be surprised if RD will speak to any fans rep. Ever. Thats what KM is CEO for.
OK, people are saying they will not renew their ST's (at the moment) but should we climb the table then they will.
Forget meetings like this, forget VIP meetings, forget 15 year old kids asking a few staged Q's. The only way to get our collective point across (whatever it is), is to have 4 or 5 fans to meet KM and open a dialogue of transparent (where possible) communication with the club. Or how about a fans supporter on the board, just a thought!
Finally if results swing back round in our favour, it will all be forgotten.
I actually totally agree with your final point Greenie, but its how we get there.
I don't agree about results, but realistically we aint gonna win the league any time soon, and certainly not with the very limited ambitions our super rich owners seems to have.
I think we have to be patient, a meeting like this was a very early step, and if only 20 had turned up, we would know there were very few who shared the concern.
Razil, for clarification, I think both meetings were/are a good idea, I just think that with the currant regime its gonna be an impossible task.
Individuals on the internet is different to 400 people making the effort to schlep to Woolwich in a (possibly forlorn) hope that it might make things a bit better.
It was mentioned how the Ched Evans saga showed that fans might have influence, Cardiff are back playing in blue. Hull City are still Hull City, the Venkys have backed off and Blackburn are getting better.
So those who went perhaps travelled with hope, even if only a flimsy hope, that owners can change, that fans can have influence. And learning about or remembering past campaigns here at Charlton, people feel a bit encouraged to try to begin something.
It has been mentioned quite rightly that the digital age, the area of life the younger generation are more involved with than my generation, is the future, and meetings in cold halls may be the past. It is possible that with some creative use of digital media that a wider constituency of support may become involved.
Yes of course Charlton Athletic is Roland's fiefdom but if he wants to improve players by using Charlton simply as a player farm, he might find those players don't get much better if the proving ground is hostile.
I think that is the point @razil - I genuinely believe that the club is heading in the right direction in most wats, but the newness of this direction (which, quite naturally, makes people scared and suspicious) and some initial mistakes by the management have led to a position of mistrust:
- The club now gives the fans the information that the fans say that they want, but it is either ignored or mistrusted by a large number of passionate, honest and well-meaning fans.
- The club feels like it is honestly answering the same negative questions time and time again, so they get rather chippy and develop of bunker-mentality of 'what's the point in talking to people if we are just going to be called liars'.
I hope that meeting might bring something positive, not only in getting the fans' questions answered, but also that the club might see that the passion of the supporters and work to build a really strong relationship and maybe things like a supporter on the board might be achievable down the line.
For me, the next steps are crucial, but incredibly difficult:
- Understand that it is KM that the fans need to talk to, not RD.
- Get together a comprehensive list of the questions that people want answered (good luck!)
- Fully understand how the club wants the fans to communicate with them.
- Work within the framework of how the club wants the fans to communicate with them to have the questions answered so that the answers can be put back to the fans - whether that be at a Fans Forum or a direct meeting.
- Once that communication is working, a little trust should be renewed, so things can be developed so that there are more opportunities for things like a supporter on the board and the idea of a fans charter like someone suggested Zena had seemed like a good idea to me.
None of this is easy, but, if the meeting yesterday is the start point for it, then it will be a hugely positive first step.
i didn't attend but filled out the survey that the trust sent out! i felt included. I have only supported Charlton a few years, but have season ticket, valley gold, and am a member of the trust.
As a 29 year old i plan to take my kids and their kids to Charlton matches! Both myself and sister are Dundee United Fans but living down here and having a passion for football, it was hard to find a family feel club, when i was introduced to Charlton from my wife's Uncle i fell in love as it was a friendly place to be - the football was shite like in Scotland maybe that was part of it
I must admit though that since the pre season in Belgium where i met a lot of lifers, i also met Katrien and Rolland, spoke to them both. there is a different feeling around the club!.
They were super friendly and really wanted to be close to the fans! i don't doubt that they want Charlton to be successful, (they want to all make cash) i don't blame them for that! just look at Stephen Thompson at Dundee United, his fam have spent 7 million of there own cash into united, and are only now seeing the results (both on the park and financially) however they really are close to the fans (see the cup finals where they fight for cheap tickets etc...) they also understand that they have to fill the stands and fill Hampden etc.. to help make cash!
Anyway back to Charlton. if Rolland wanted to come here develop youths and sell them for a profit and still preform on the pitch and be in FFP. i would be happy as i think that's how football is going.
However this attitude of non engagement with the Fans is unreal! I have lost all respect i had for Katrien! she just laugh's at everything which i find very rude! and to turn around at the end of the video and say basically I'm his mouth piece you talk to me not him! that's out of order! she says no one at the club is a puppet but made clear she is the mouth piece of Rolland thus his puppet
I understand the man cant be at Charlton all the time (don't want him to be either) but if the fans want a discussion he should make time. to have 400 people turn up to a meeting - and hundreds more sitting at home tuned in to forums and shit - that would raise alarm bells to me.
I don't care what happens on the pitch! it is what i love about football! if we were in league 1 next season and had another manager by then i would continue to support Charlton!
What i wont support however is a belligerent owner and a woman who is on a power trip and wont back down when she is wrong! I wont support dishonesty which i think the hiring process of Luzon was! I wont support a club who doesn't give 2 shites what my opinion is! I wont support a club who wont listed to there fans!
If you don't listen in a controlled environment, then you will be force to listen on your live feed to the abuse that will come from the Covered end match after match!
the club told us they had nothing to add, then immediately went out when we organised this meeting and did a PR stunt with a 15 year old lad.
The point of the meeting was as has been stated, earlier on. I understand people being realistic, but why not go to the meeting rather than slating it?
The very least of it is to show that there are a lot of genuinely concerned fans who see that that something is going badly wrong including the quite public falling away of some of our long term supporters. Personally I think that is reason enough. People last night braved the cold to go to a public meeting, with no players, no club reps, and packed out a hall.
There weren't 25 or a hundred there were over 400 and I think thats a big deal personally. It was a positive act by people who want to do something rather than just bitch about it on message boards. I take it pretty seriously as it hasn't happened for nearly a generation at this club.
What comes next is important I agree, we'll see what happens over coming weeks, I think reasonably last night achieved all it was going to, not an easy thing to do in itself. How much further it goes will depend how deep the feeling runs among fans.
To answer Marks point from Twitter, 'we' did have public meetings during the TJ era, we formed a supporters' trust if you recall, and we did it through a lot of hard work, from the first 100 members to now 1100 who give up their fivers for very few benefits if any, other than supporting the Trust. We built it by standing in the rain talking to real fans, and giving out TNT.
Razil in defensive response shocker......
Who's slating the meeting? I've said all along "good luck to you, but I don't think you'll achieve anything"
I'm still struggling. You got 400 people in a room. Some of them expressed concerns about the ownership, 100s of people have been doing the same thing on the internet for months. Why is this any different?
I was there last night. I think it was pleasing to see non-anti-RD people like myself make the effort and some even stood up to make a speech. It's always going to be a majority of discontented people at a meeting like this but I feel that the number of people who do not think RD is a danger to the club bothered, shows that any action against the club that does not represent everybody should not be taken. A silent majority... Maybe not but a sizeable group in any case.
I was there last night. I think it was pleasing to see non-anti-RD people like myself make the effort and some even stood up to make a speech. It's always going to be a majority of discontented people at a meeting like this but I feel that the number of people who do not think RD is a danger to the club bothered, shows that any action against the club that does not represent everybody should not be taken. A silent majority... Maybe not but a sizeable group in any case.
Good for you for being there and making your views known.
But there is no way that "action against the club that does not represent everybody should not be taken" can possibly work. There will not be a consensus amongst thousands of fans. The issue is, how many supporters DO want some action taken and will take part in any action? If it's enough, it will be noticed. If it's not, it will get drowned out by those who are happy, and gently ignored by RD. We'll see.
I went last night. I think we're a pretty realistic lot, no-one pretends to have an easy answer. I think a period of silence from Katrien would be most welcome. I also think we're underestimating what a blunder it was to appoint Bob. It has been his brand of slow football that has been driving fans away, and Luzon can't be any worse IMO. I'm not bothered about him not waving to the fans, his job is to put out a winning team, and that's what Curbs did. The other thing we don't know is how hard Roland will try to keep our best players, and what our squad will be next season. These things will affect how the mood of the fans changes.
Pleased i went, no masterplan tonight, but good to hear the different views. The pro Roland folk missed a trick tonight, you could have got your views across and you would have been applauded, mainly for having the bottle to speak. still don't worry you can go back to being keyboard warriors.
Some CL love to have a pop at Airman, you would have been disappointed tonight he didn't say we should storm his two chalets but keep on trying to put our points across for now.
The 71 year old chap who said we should by pass Katrien to get to Roland, by email or text or paper plane made a good case.
Covered end said we would have more chance with Murray than Katrien to get our message across.
Steve Dixon was very ani the network of clubs, and another couple of guys said they would rather us be in League 2 as long as we had a charlton fan/fans in charge. ? that would mean i would have to turn up and want us to lose,
sorry guys that not in my DNA to do that. But i do understand the sentiment.
Are all pro RD keyboard warriors then?
Garry we are all keyboard warriors even people like me who will always try to lighten the mood at times.
After Saturday's great win there was a fantastic opportunity for someone to say how well certain players had done from SL, Bulot and Watt spring to mind. To be fair some did, including Rick, one lad who said if our early form had continued we wouldn't of been having the meeting, he's right but IF George, Igor or Bikey in those 3 home games had taken the last minutes chances Peeters would still be in a job because the six extra points would have put us in the top half of the table and bob's mood would have been better and the rows with players would not have been so intent. IF IF IF.
question is, is 400 a good turn-out? In my opinion I was expecting to hear that closer to a 1,000 had been present. 400 is around 5% of our season ticket holders, even less of an average home crowd. To me this shows that less people are actually concerned at the moment than there are believed to be.
to put it in context, our local village had the same turn-out to discuss a local planning application out of 2,000 local residents, so a 20% turn-out.
this isn't to denigrate the meeting, or those that attended, but maybe it shows that those that did are actually in a minority.
question is, is 400 a good turn-out? In my opinion I was expecting to hear that closer to a 1,000 had been present. 400 is around 5% of our season ticket holders, even less of an average home crowd. To me this shows that less people are actually concerned at the moment than there are believed to be.
to put it in context, our local village had the same turn-out to discuss a local planning application out of 2,000 local residents, so a 20% turn-out.
this isn't to denigrate the meeting, or those that attended, but maybe it shows that those that did are actually in a minority.
No, but you just have, congratulations. I don't know what the local planning application to which you refer was about but if it was a recycling plant on my doorstep, I would have expected nearer 100% turn out, no offence like, get my drift?
question is, is 400 a good turn-out? In my opinion I was expecting to hear that closer to a 1,000 had been present. 400 is around 5% of our season ticket holders, even less of an average home crowd. To me this shows that less people are actually concerned at the moment than there are believed to be.
to put it in context, our local village had the same turn-out to discuss a local planning application out of 2,000 local residents, so a 20% turn-out.
this isn't to denigrate the meeting, or those that attended, but maybe it shows that those that did are actually in a minority.
How far did the people in your local village have to travel, how specific was the issue to them and how many Charlton supporters' meetings with turnouts of more than that would you say there have been in the last 50 years?
The 1986 AGM at The Valley would be one, but then again the directors were present as guests and there was a huge petition to present.
question is, is 400 a good turn-out? In my opinion I was expecting to hear that closer to a 1,000 had been present. 400 is around 5% of our season ticket holders, even less of an average home crowd. To me this shows that less people are actually concerned at the moment than there are believed to be.
to put it in context, our local village had the same turn-out to discuss a local planning application out of 2,000 local residents, so a 20% turn-out.
this isn't to denigrate the meeting, or those that attended, but maybe it shows that those that did are actually in a minority.
Maybe it shows that more people are interested in the club than the football at the moment.
I bet we don't see 400 people up at Wigan tomorrow "supporting the players on the pitch".
question is, is 400 a good turn-out? In my opinion I was expecting to hear that closer to a 1,000 had been present. 400 is around 5% of our season ticket holders, even less of an average home crowd. To me this shows that less people are actually concerned at the moment than there are believed to be.
to put it in context, our local village had the same turn-out to discuss a local planning application out of 2,000 local residents, so a 20% turn-out.
this isn't to denigrate the meeting, or those that attended, but maybe it shows that those that did are actually in a minority.
Maybe it shows that more people are interested in the club than the football at the moment.
I bet we don't see 400 people up at Wigan tomorrow "supporting the players on the pitch".
If we were in the play-off positions we'd struggle to muster 500 for a Friday night in Wigan.
Comments
Good meeting last night, had to leave at 9 so missed any conclusion. Anyone saying people were shouted down were not there and are talking tosh.
What happens if no one steps up?
This isn't aimed, specifically, at you ESL but I'm getting a bit fed up with people that can't be bothered to do anything to help but feel justified in deciding who isn't allowed to!
I was there last night but I have neither the time nor the inclination to challenge the club, or those running it. I'm just grateful for those that will do so, on my behalf.
Given KM's intransigent stance there was a certain amount of support to concentrate on getting Richard Murray, who apparently is sympathetic to the growing sense of frustration amongst the fans, to further an approach for more dialogue.
I got the feeling that the majority last night want reconciliation not revolution and if it proves to have been a waste of time then so be it but nothing ventured nothing gained!
The point of the meeting was as has been stated, earlier on. I understand people being realistic, but why not go to the meeting rather than slating it?
The very least of it is to show that there are a lot of genuinely concerned fans who see that that something is going badly wrong including the quite public falling away of some of our long term supporters. Personally I think that is reason enough. People last night braved the cold to go to a public meeting, with no players, no club reps, and packed out a hall.
There weren't 25 or a hundred there were over 400 and I think thats a big deal personally. It was a positive act by people who want to do something rather than just bitch about it on message boards. I take it pretty seriously as it hasn't happened for nearly a generation at this club.
What comes next is important I agree, we'll see what happens over coming weeks, I think reasonably last night achieved all it was going to, not an easy thing to do in itself. How much further it goes will depend how deep the feeling runs among fans.
To answer Marks point from Twitter, 'we' did have public meetings during the TJ era, we formed a supporters' trust if you recall, and we did it through a lot of hard work, from the first 100 members to now 1100 who give up their fivers for very few benefits if any, other than supporting the Trust. We built it by standing in the rain talking to real fans, and giving out TNT.
Yes historically fans have made a difference to our club, but that was then, this is now.
All the posturing, all the impassioned speeches, all the militant 'demands' to RD will be ignored, in a 'go f*ck yourself' attitude cos its his club. Its his money, its up to him to make a success of it, because he stands to lose far more than all of us put together.
I will be surprised if RD will speak to any fans rep. Ever. Thats what KM is CEO for.
OK, people are saying they will not renew their ST's (at the moment) but should we climb the table then they will.
Forget meetings like this, forget VIP meetings, forget 15 year old kids asking a few staged Q's.
The only way to get our collective point across (whatever it is), is to have 4 or 5 fans to meet KM and open a dialogue of transparent (where possible) communication with the club.
Or how about a fans supporter on the board, just a thought!
Finally if results swing back round in our favour, it will all be forgotten.
Great post.
Who's slating the meeting? I've said all along "good luck to you, but I don't think you'll achieve anything"
I'm still struggling. You got 400 people in a room. Some of them expressed concerns about the ownership, 100s of people have been doing the same thing on the internet for months. Why is this any different?
That's what we said before the meeting and the views from the people that are there seems to be that we pretty much managed that.
We tried our best to make people who couldn't attend feel included by being able to email in their views, some of which we read out. We also used Twitter as well to make those who weren't able to attend feel included.
I don't agree about results, but realistically we aint gonna win the league any time soon, and certainly not with the very limited ambitions our super rich owners seems to have.
I think we have to be patient, a meeting like this was a very early step, and if only 20 had turned up, we would know there were very few who shared the concern.
Just to say Rick's speech was excellent - I was in the second row and his left hand was shaking throughout. I am sure it was not nerves, probably emotion and anger at seeing a lot of things he had helped to create be dismantled by the last and current administrations.
Never been one of Clarke's greatest fans, but he chaired it excellently last night. Well done all.
It was mentioned how the Ched Evans saga showed that fans might have influence, Cardiff are back playing in blue. Hull City are still Hull City, the Venkys have backed off and Blackburn are getting better.
So those who went perhaps travelled with hope, even if only a flimsy hope, that owners can change, that fans can have influence. And learning about or remembering past campaigns here at Charlton, people feel a bit encouraged to try to begin something.
It has been mentioned quite rightly that the digital age, the area of life the younger generation are more involved with than my generation, is the future, and meetings in cold halls may be the past. It is possible that with some creative use of digital media that a wider constituency of support may become involved.
Yes of course Charlton Athletic is Roland's fiefdom but if he wants to improve players by using Charlton simply as a player farm, he might find those players don't get much better if the proving ground is hostile.
- The club now gives the fans the information that the fans say that they want, but it is either ignored or mistrusted by a large number of passionate, honest and well-meaning fans.
- The club feels like it is honestly answering the same negative questions time and time again, so they get rather chippy and develop of bunker-mentality of 'what's the point in talking to people if we are just going to be called liars'.
I hope that meeting might bring something positive, not only in getting the fans' questions answered, but also that the club might see that the passion of the supporters and work to build a really strong relationship and maybe things like a supporter on the board might be achievable down the line.
For me, the next steps are crucial, but incredibly difficult:
- Understand that it is KM that the fans need to talk to, not RD.
- Get together a comprehensive list of the questions that people want answered (good luck!)
- Fully understand how the club wants the fans to communicate with them.
- Work within the framework of how the club wants the fans to communicate with them to have the questions answered so that the answers can be put back to the fans - whether that be at a Fans Forum or a direct meeting.
- Once that communication is working, a little trust should be renewed, so things can be developed so that there are more opportunities for things like a supporter on the board and the idea of a fans charter like someone suggested Zena had seemed like a good idea to me.
None of this is easy, but, if the meeting yesterday is the start point for it, then it will be a hugely positive first step.
As a 29 year old i plan to take my kids and their kids to Charlton matches! Both myself and sister are Dundee United Fans but living down here and having a passion for football, it was hard to find a family feel club, when i was introduced to Charlton from my wife's Uncle i fell in love as it was a friendly place to be - the football was shite like in Scotland maybe that was part of it
I must admit though that since the pre season in Belgium where i met a lot of lifers, i also met Katrien and Rolland, spoke to them both. there is a different feeling around the club!.
They were super friendly and really wanted to be close to the fans! i don't doubt that they want Charlton to be successful, (they want to all make cash) i don't blame them for that! just look at Stephen Thompson at Dundee United, his fam have spent 7 million of there own cash into united, and are only now seeing the results (both on the park and financially) however they really are close to the fans (see the cup finals where they fight for cheap tickets etc...) they also understand that they have to fill the stands and fill Hampden etc.. to help make cash!
Anyway back to Charlton. if Rolland wanted to come here develop youths and sell them for a profit and still preform on the pitch and be in FFP. i would be happy as i think that's how football is going.
However this attitude of non engagement with the Fans is unreal! I have lost all respect i had for Katrien! she just laugh's at everything which i find very rude! and to turn around at the end of the video and say basically I'm his mouth piece you talk to me not him! that's out of order! she says no one at the club is a puppet but made clear she is the mouth piece of Rolland thus his puppet
I understand the man cant be at Charlton all the time (don't want him to be either) but if the fans want a discussion he should make time. to have 400 people turn up to a meeting - and hundreds more sitting at home tuned in to forums and shit - that would raise alarm bells to me.
I don't care what happens on the pitch! it is what i love about football! if we were in league 1 next season and had another manager by then i would continue to support Charlton!
What i wont support however is a belligerent owner and a woman who is on a power trip and wont back down when she is wrong!
I wont support dishonesty which i think the hiring process of Luzon was!
I wont support a club who doesn't give 2 shites what my opinion is!
I wont support a club who wont listed to there fans!
If you don't listen in a controlled environment, then you will be force to listen on your live feed to the abuse that will come from the Covered end match after match!
Support the Team not the Owners!
COYR
But there is no way that "action against the club that does not represent everybody should not be taken" can possibly work. There will not be a consensus amongst thousands of fans. The issue is, how many supporters DO want some action taken and will take part in any action? If it's enough, it will be noticed. If it's not, it will get drowned out by those who are happy, and gently ignored by RD. We'll see.
I think a period of silence from Katrien would be most welcome.
I also think we're underestimating what a blunder it was to appoint Bob. It has been his brand of slow football that has been driving fans away, and Luzon can't be any worse IMO. I'm not bothered about him not waving to the fans, his job is to put out a winning team, and that's what Curbs did. The other thing we don't know is how hard Roland will try to keep our best players, and what our squad will be next season. These things will affect how the mood of the fans changes.
There will be a minor overlap between video one and two as I inadvertently cut Steve Dixon off in his prime . . .
I didn't get most of the last half hour as I was running out of battery power.
we will try and formulate further steps once we have had time to absorb all the feedback, and we also need to put TNT to bed over the weekend..
After Saturday's great win there was a fantastic opportunity for someone to say how well certain players had done from SL, Bulot and Watt spring to mind.
To be fair some did, including Rick, one lad who said if our early form had continued we wouldn't of been having the meeting, he's right but IF George, Igor or Bikey in those 3 home games had taken the last minutes chances Peeters would still be in a job because the six extra points would have put us in the top half of the table and bob's mood would have been better and the rows with players would not have been so intent. IF IF IF.
to put it in context, our local village had the same turn-out to discuss a local planning application out of 2,000 local residents, so a 20% turn-out.
this isn't to denigrate the meeting, or those that attended, but maybe it shows that those that did are actually in a minority.
The 1986 AGM at The Valley would be one, but then again the directors were present as guests and there was a huge petition to present.
I bet we don't see 400 people up at Wigan tomorrow "supporting the players on the pitch".