No matter what any of you say, RM and PV were Directors who wherever possible communicated with us including at local branch meetings. RD does not communicate with us. Like the rest of you I will be in my seat next season, but I am not mug enough to sit quietly in the current climate.
We have an owner with an agenda that is based on his core business practices that bears no resemblance to how a Football club should be run. What I see from all available evidence is that this so called network creates a situation that moves all the clubs contained in it to the lowest common denominator by diluting the playing and dare I saw coaching talent without any apparent regard to the effects of this policy on the individual clubs. Indeed if you were a conspiracy theorist (which I am not) you could argue that RD only views CAFC as an asset in terms of the position and size of the plot of land the club stands on, and that is really worrying because that implies that ultimately all he is really interested in is cashing in the asset which in fact would be easier to do if the club had slipped down the leagues and had sparse support.
It would appear that he is not operating a model that would build the team and club up to get promotion to The Premier League where if achieved he would certainly make a profit if he sold on, but that is a difficult thing to do in today’s Football climate and in my opinion not something RD is particularly interested in. I hope I am wrong in saying this but from where I sit it looks like he is hell bent on proving a theory that most people who know anything about Football will say is just totally flawed but nothing is going to dissuade him because he doesn’t employ anyone who may disagree with him and indeed the statement from Katrien would indicate it’s “My way or the highway” as far as RD is concerned.
Of course some argue that he actually saved us from relegation last season by getting rid of a manager who appeared to have lost his way (CP) and appointing someone who led us to safety and at the same time also getting rid of Slater and Jimenez who were completely disinterested in the club and no longer prepared to invest. He also gave us a new pitch (paid for by the Kermogant transfer fee) a bunch of promises and yet another new manager (BP) to start the season. Of course all that is true but now what is being been done appears to be 100% at his behest with no discussion or flexibility of approach “My Club my rules” applies here and that kind of dogma will not work unless you really understand the impact of your policies and so far I see little evidence of that. I also believe that he has completely underestimated the quality and competitiveness of The Championship this isn’t the Belgium second division it’s a proper Football league, with proper players and good managers but then why would he realise that he knows shag all about Football and even less about English Football?
Like all very successful people he has a proven expertise in his business arena but that doesn’t make him an expert on everything history is littered with examples of rich, powerful men’s useless pet projects and as for Katrien what is she there for? as far as I can tell it is to parrot what RD has to say and little else. How can she advise anyone on what really matters? Can she go to RD and say “look we need to rethink this whole thing because it isn’t working” I don’t think so . What make the whole situation worse is that this dysfunctional system will be known around the game pretty quickly, I know from my own industry how quickly bad news travels, and decent players will never want to come here. Dissatisfied players who are not interested in the club or playing for the badge, a coach nobody wants or believes in and form that has relegation written all over it is the order of the day at the moment and honestly it is hard to see how that will change now.
I know a lot of people will say that you have to give him some time but that is not something we have, the prosperity and the future of any Football club is directly tied to success on the pitch that is where it all starts not with some fancy accountancy project, this about the heart and the origins of our club.
The best we can look forward to now is a struggle to the end of the season with the vain hope that we can stay up but with no fresh injection of talent and energy that is looking seriously doubtful. Still you never know Luzon might wake up one morning and have a game plan that actually works , that we can play midfielders who will move the ball forwards instead of sideways and that Gomez may be worth starting as he can actually play football. You can only hope. I’ll be there tomorrow and next season regardless but this is about the future of CAFC and today it looks, from the Football perspective very, very shaky.
Finally I leave you with the quote from Albert Einstein “The true definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result” Sound familiar Roland?
WOW !!!!! Don't believe I've read too many of your posts, Dave but this is THE one !
Words fail me except to say, if this was printed on a flyer , with the heading " Please read & if you are as worried about the future of our Club as the author, come along to the meeting on 18th Feb ..."etc & handed out to everyone at tomorrow night's/Saturday's match , then I believe the O2 should be booked now !
Excellent post @daveaddick. Amazes me how the Football League don't arm themselves with more power when it comes to ownership. How is someone like Duchatelet allowed to get away with what he's doing? Look at Leeds, they've tried to ban the owner there and he's laughed in their faces. Pathetic support from a governing body.
Is anyone in touch the Leeds supporters trust? Do they have one?
One thing I would like to add to the debate is that those that regard themselves as members of the silent majority or more likely to be members of the silent AND ignorant majority, if majority it is. I don't mean ignorant in a derogatory way but many supporters tend not to want or have the time to know about the inner workings of the club unless it hits them between the eyes. The weekly grind of defeat after defeat is as bad as it gets (like many of us, I've experienced it many times !). In that world, owners just merge from one to the next - almost an irrelevance or an irritation. So why get upset about the current owner ?
And for these people that would look to L1 for better, more enjoyable football and wins, well it aint necessarily so. What happens if its more bad football, STVVs cast offs rather than SL's ? Then we are in L2 or the Conference. Where would you draw the line ?
Excellent post @daveaddick. Amazes me how the Football League don't arm themselves with more power when it comes to ownership. How is someone like Duchatelet allowed to get away with what he's doing? Look at Leeds, they've tried to ban the owner there and he's laugh din their faces. Pathetic support from a governing body.
Is anyone in touch the Leeds supporters trust? Do they have one?
They do have one. Not sure if they have many members or how active or influential they are though.
Excellent post @daveaddick. Amazes me how the Football League don't arm themselves with more power when it comes to ownership. How is someone like Duchatelet allowed to get away with what he's doing? Look at Leeds, they've tried to ban the owner there and he's laugh din their faces. Pathetic support from a governing body.
Is anyone in touch the Leeds supporters trust? Do they have one?
They do have one. Not sure if they have many members or how active or influential they are though.
This has been mentioned on another thread by @PragueAddick . 3000 members i recall. I am with Red Robin on football authorities neglectfulness (post on previous page). They could/should be the third party with enough power to intervene where ownership networks are not wanted by fans.
Excellent post @daveaddick. Amazes me how the Football League don't arm themselves with more power when it comes to ownership. How is someone like Duchatelet allowed to get away with what he's doing? Look at Leeds, they've tried to ban the owner there and he's laugh din their faces. Pathetic support from a governing body.
Is anyone in touch the Leeds supporters trust? Do they have one?
They do have one. Not sure if they have many members or how active or influential they are though.
This has been mentioned on another thread by @PragueAddick . 3000 members i recall. I am with Red Robin on football authorities neglectfulness (post on previous page). They could/should be the third party with enough power to intervene where ownership networks are not wanted by fans.
It is the biggest Trust in the Championship and much bigger than 3,000. However there is some controversy about it, the details of which i forget . I will ask Supporters Direct about Leeds this week, we are talking with them about the meeting and possibly outcomes.
I really would hesitate to put RD in anywhere near the same bracket as Cellino though. Cellino is a convicted criminal. RD doesn't even seem to engage in tax avoidance strategies that some people in that thread tell me are perfectly ok :-)
The opening post is very well positioned. I am sure it touches a nerve with most. However no matter the rationale, in essence it reflects a matter of expectation or may I rather unkindly suggest the lack of it.
It is to Daveaddicks' immense credit he has delivered an equally balanced piece which for me paints so very well the concerns if not fears of so many.
If Charlton is, for some, their vehicle for social interaction with family, friends and the rest of world and they are comfortable to habitually attend each week with modest expectation it seems the Roland implementation plan may be the one for them. On a personal level there is nothing wrong with such magnanimity but I must argue such an expectation across football today, be it in support of Charlton, other professional clubs or even the likes of Tunbridge Wells FC is very much a minority view.
Nice pitch, new seats, modest pricing all feed an "off the field" experience. The problem is the "on the field" experience. A "we have been here before approach" is indeed a pragmatic response to the current challenges though I can but suggest, without wishing to offend, being "bothered" is exactly what the whole issue is about.
Putting aside our history and what any other future party may offer, the issue today is, to use another's words is "whether the interests of the club and the current owner are necessarily mutually incompatible". In truth we do not know because for reasons unknown the current executive have adopted a style of communication/ secrecy of which John Fryer would have been in awe.
Charlton Athletic Football Club is a professional sports organisation participating in a competitive sports industry. The fundamental principle of professional competitive sport is "to compete at all times to the best of your ability". In professional football such principle has to extend from the field of play to the clubhouse to the boardroom and beyond.
In an exceptionally competitive and increasingly distorted market you may still fail and as the original poster so eloquently described such is the path so many of us have travelled with Charlton. However much as we may enjoy reminiscing over our "corner shop" memories we no longer operate in a mainstream corner shop environment.
If the aim of a professional football club is to support a team of players in successfully competing in the game of football then the "football business" requirement of the people running the club in supporting a team organisationally and/or financially is to operate in the best interests of the team.
Everything else needs to be secondary to, and or supportive of such requirement. Secondary or supportive activities will generate a life and importance of their own but that can only be to the point they facilitate, not supersede the primary "football business" requirement.
Move away from such requirement and you risk disenfranchising those whose rationale for being involved with the club, at any level, is to see the best team it can construct, compete to the best of its ability on their behalf. To blur the edges of such a focus is a recipe for discord, dissension and division such as we have seen over the past few months.
I am a strong supporter of the Duchatelet vision but must ask we look closely at the events of the past year to assess the manner in which the vision has been implemented and answer this question;
"Has the new management structure at the club, based on the evidence of its actions, served the teams' best interests?
For me there is an inherent flaw in the club management infrastructure creating a basic conflict of interest. I will not argue such conflict is for the benefit others because such determination can only be assumptive and/or speculative. No words from me on Staprix, Liege, Alcorcon, Carl Zeiss Jena on this topic as they will only serve to distract.
My focus is on Charlton Athletic Football Club. I have but a few further questions.
Do you think the current executive of the club consider the club, first and foremost, as an organisation whose existence is solely to progress the interest of its football team?
No prevarication re this or that investment or why else would he be involved?. Just "yes or no". In the absence of an affirmative reply, CAFC, as it was formed and its "raison d'etre" until 03.01.2014, no longer exists.
If you answered yes, then for the first time in my memory, based on the management of the club over the past 12 months I have to ask can you please tell me who is making the football decisions?
Is the person specifically and uniquely employed by the club?
Who has the final decision on the construction of, and player recruitment for, the senior squad?
Who has the final decision on team selection? Are such decisions consistently made without executive interference?
I pose such questions against a club recruitment record over the past 13 months advised as; - 7 attempts to resign senior players with 3 signing (1 has since left) with 4 players choosing pastures new. - 10 loan signings with 5 coming from clubs under common/ connected ownership - 6 permanent transfers from clubs under common/connected ownership. 4 are now out on long term loan - 7 out of contract unattached players - 3 players purchased from other clubs (just 12% signings via agreeing "terms" with other clubs & the player)
I note just 60% of these signings were registered available for selection this Saturday
We all know the club is now employing a 4th head coach within the period of this ownership
There are others better able than I to assess the day to day administration of the club.
I will also desist from stepping into financial waters as any interpretation would only be based on very generic information and thus speculative, although the executive has made reference to a "balancing of the books".
Can anyone provide any clarity on what such a generic aim actually means against the background of the club accounts regularly recording a significant trading shortfall and the recent revision of FFP criteria.
In June I wrote
I respect that the man owns the club I have supported for over 50yrs. I respect the fact he is in position to provide the club some financial stability. I respect the fact he is showing the intentions of exploring a successful sustainable future for the club.
I sincerely hope he and the team he assembles will be successful in their endeavours. Any success will be evident from the results on the pitch and the financial results off the pitch
Now be honest how do you really think it is going so far?
The strength of the M. Duchatelet ownership is he has the resources to build a very successful club able to compete toward the upper echelons of the UK game.
The weakness of the M. Duchatelet ownership is he has the resources to do absolutely nothing at all.
Daveaddick has positioned the dangers so very, very well.
I sincerely hope the forthcoming fan meeting is able to come together to create a compelling argument for the club executive to recognise it is ultimately in everyone's interest to form a constructive and creative dialogue between all stakeholders.
Had actually started writing my own far less eloquent post, but just read DA and Grapevine's offerings which sum it up perfectly. Biggest thing for me, like many others, is that football's my escapism. Work and family life is pretty demanding, so Charlton's always been a great distraction and provided many happy memories over the past 20-odd yrs as a fan and supporter. Win, lose or draw, I'd be happy regardless so long as the "team" put a shift in (something we used to be known for).
Right now we have a bit of a perfect storm in that today's society demands instant satisfaction, pouring petrol on problems facing the club on the pitch. Add RD's BUSINESS MODEL to the pot, and the "my way or the highway" inflexibility that comes with it, and if we're not basking in success on the field, even some of the laissez-faire fans like myself end up disenfranchised and distanced from our club. Stir in a bunch of players that (largely but thankfully not exclusively) lack the spirit and a desire to win for the club, and coaching staff that are restricted to being just that...staff, it's no wonder many (myself included) feel increasing estranged from what we've grown to know and love about being a Charlton supporter.
I can see why next week's meeting's come about, and I just hope the fall-out from it gets the owner's attention and, who knows, maybe brings back a bit of the human element to our club...........after all, we're the customer and if committed supporters of tens of years are disillusioned, then the less committed have already left the building!
There must be a logic somewhere in Roland's mind, that is what is so disturbing. Is Roland's problem that he mainly deals with machines. Is he oblivious to the impact of instability and insecurity on the team, whoever is the manager and of course the fans. It's almost as if he sees players as machines that operate to a pre-determined programme regardless of where they are operating or who is pushing the buttons. Does he see fans as people who will turn up and watch robots perform as long as they are wearing the right colours. He seems to have eliminated emotion from his thought processes.
Anyone now who is not bothered will probably fit Roland's assessment.
Not read any of the comments but in reply to the title...
Bothered? Yes I am. Seeing my club go on like this is breaking my bloody heart.
You won't agree with it but do yourself a favour and read a brilliantly written opening post. Can't speak for anyone else but it still represents my view.
Comments
It would appear that he is not operating a model that would build the team and club up to get promotion to The Premier League where if achieved he would certainly make a profit if he sold on, but that is a difficult thing to do in today’s Football climate and in my opinion not something RD is particularly interested in. I hope I am wrong in saying this but from where I sit it looks like he is hell bent on proving a theory that most people who know anything about Football will say is just totally flawed but nothing is going to dissuade him because he doesn’t employ anyone who may disagree with him and indeed the statement from Katrien would indicate it’s “My way or the highway” as far as RD is concerned.
Of course some argue that he actually saved us from relegation last season by getting rid of a manager who appeared to have lost his way (CP) and appointing someone who led us to safety and at the same time also getting rid of Slater and Jimenez who were completely disinterested in the club and no longer prepared to invest. He also gave us a new pitch (paid for by the Kermogant transfer fee) a bunch of promises and yet another new manager (BP) to start the season. Of course all that is true but now what is being been done appears to be 100% at his behest with no discussion or flexibility of approach “My Club my rules” applies here and that kind of dogma will not work unless you really understand the impact of your policies and so far I see little evidence of that. I also believe that he has completely underestimated the quality and competitiveness of The Championship this isn’t the Belgium second division it’s a proper Football league, with proper players and good managers but then why would he realise that he knows shag all about Football and even less about English Football?
Like all very successful people he has a proven expertise in his business arena but that doesn’t make him an expert on everything history is littered with examples of rich, powerful men’s useless pet projects and as for Katrien what is she there for? as far as I can tell it is to parrot what RD has to say and little else. How can she advise anyone on what really matters? Can she go to RD and say “look we need to rethink this whole thing because it isn’t working” I don’t think so . What make the whole situation worse is that this dysfunctional system will be known around the game pretty quickly, I know from my own industry how quickly bad news travels, and decent players will never want to come here. Dissatisfied players who are not interested in the club or playing for the badge, a coach nobody wants or believes in and form that has relegation written all over it is the order of the day at the moment and honestly it is hard to see how that will change now.
I know a lot of people will say that you have to give him some time but that is not something we have, the prosperity and the future of any Football club is directly tied to success on the pitch that is where it all starts not with some fancy accountancy project, this about the heart and the origins of our club.
The best we can look forward to now is a struggle to the end of the season with the vain hope that we can stay up but with no fresh injection of talent and energy that is looking seriously doubtful. Still you never know Luzon might wake up one morning and have a game plan that actually works , that we can play midfielders who will move the ball forwards instead of sideways and that Gomez may be worth starting as he can actually play football. You can only hope. I’ll be there tomorrow and next season regardless but this is about the future of CAFC and today it looks, from the Football perspective very, very shaky.
Finally I leave you with the quote from Albert Einstein “The true definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result” Sound familiar Roland?
Words fail me except to say, if this was printed on a flyer , with the heading " Please read & if you are as worried about the future of our Club as the author, come along to the meeting on 18th Feb ..."etc & handed out to everyone at tomorrow night's/Saturday's match , then I believe the O2 should be booked now !
Is anyone in touch the Leeds supporters trust? Do they have one?
One thing I would like to add to the debate is that those that regard themselves as members of the silent majority or more likely to be members of the silent AND ignorant majority, if majority it is. I don't mean ignorant in a derogatory way but many supporters tend not to want or have the time to know about the inner workings of the club unless it hits them between the eyes. The weekly grind of defeat after defeat is as bad as it gets (like many of us, I've experienced it many times !). In that world, owners just merge from one to the next - almost an irrelevance or an irritation. So why get upset about the current owner ?
And for these people that would look to L1 for better, more enjoyable football and wins, well it aint necessarily so. What happens if its more bad football, STVVs cast offs rather than SL's ? Then we are in L2 or the Conference. Where would you draw the line ?
I really would hesitate to put RD in anywhere near the same bracket as Cellino though. Cellino is a convicted criminal. RD doesn't even seem to engage in tax avoidance strategies that some people in that thread tell me are perfectly ok :-)
It is to Daveaddicks' immense credit he has delivered an equally balanced piece which for me paints so very well the concerns if not fears of so many.
If Charlton is, for some, their vehicle for social interaction with family, friends and the rest of world and they are comfortable to habitually attend each week with modest expectation it seems the Roland implementation plan may be the one for them. On a personal level there is nothing wrong with such magnanimity but I must argue such an expectation across football today, be it in support of Charlton, other professional clubs or even the likes of Tunbridge Wells FC is very much a minority view.
Nice pitch, new seats, modest pricing all feed an "off the field" experience. The problem is the "on the field" experience. A "we have been here before approach" is indeed a pragmatic response to the current challenges though I can but suggest, without wishing to offend, being "bothered" is exactly what the whole issue is about.
Putting aside our history and what any other future party may offer, the issue today is, to use another's words is "whether the interests of the club and the current owner are necessarily mutually incompatible". In truth we do not know because for reasons unknown the current executive have adopted a style of communication/ secrecy of which John Fryer would have been in awe.
Charlton Athletic Football Club is a professional sports organisation participating in a competitive sports industry. The fundamental principle of professional competitive sport is "to compete at all times to the best of your ability". In professional football such principle has to extend from the field of play to the clubhouse to the boardroom and beyond.
In an exceptionally competitive and increasingly distorted market you may still fail and as the original poster so eloquently described such is the path so many of us have travelled with Charlton. However much as we may enjoy reminiscing over our "corner shop" memories we no longer operate in a mainstream corner shop environment.
If the aim of a professional football club is to support a team of players in successfully competing in the game of football then the "football business" requirement of the people running the club in supporting a team organisationally and/or financially is to operate in the best interests of the team.
Everything else needs to be secondary to, and or supportive of such requirement. Secondary or supportive activities will generate a life and importance of their own but that can only be to the point they facilitate, not supersede the primary "football business" requirement.
Move away from such requirement and you risk disenfranchising those whose rationale for being involved with the club, at any level, is to see the best team it can construct, compete to the best of its ability on their behalf. To blur the edges of such a focus is a recipe for discord, dissension and division such as we have seen over the past few months.
I am a strong supporter of the Duchatelet vision but must ask we look closely at the events of the past year to assess the manner in which the vision has been implemented and answer this question;
"Has the new management structure at the club, based on the evidence of its actions, served the teams' best interests?
For me there is an inherent flaw in the club management infrastructure creating a basic conflict of interest. I will not argue such conflict is for the benefit others because such determination can only be assumptive and/or speculative. No words from me on Staprix, Liege, Alcorcon, Carl Zeiss Jena on this topic as they will only serve to distract.
My focus is on Charlton Athletic Football Club. I have but a few further questions.
Do you think the current executive of the club consider the club, first and foremost, as an organisation whose existence is solely to progress the interest of its football team?
No prevarication re this or that investment or why else would he be involved?. Just "yes or no". In the absence of an affirmative reply, CAFC, as it was formed and its "raison d'etre" until 03.01.2014, no longer exists.
If you answered yes, then for the first time in my memory, based on the management of the club over the past 12 months I have to ask can you please tell me who is making the football decisions?
Is the person specifically and uniquely employed by the club?
Who has the final decision on the construction of, and player recruitment for, the senior squad?
Who has the final decision on team selection? Are such decisions consistently made without executive interference?
I pose such questions against a club recruitment record over the past 13 months advised as;
- 7 attempts to resign senior players with 3 signing (1 has since left) with 4 players choosing pastures new.
- 10 loan signings with 5 coming from clubs under common/ connected ownership
- 6 permanent transfers from clubs under common/connected ownership. 4 are now out on long term loan
- 7 out of contract unattached players
- 3 players purchased from other clubs (just 12% signings via agreeing "terms" with other clubs & the player)
I note just 60% of these signings were registered available for selection this Saturday
We all know the club is now employing a 4th head coach within the period of this ownership
There are others better able than I to assess the day to day administration of the club.
I will also desist from stepping into financial waters as any interpretation would only be based on very generic information and thus speculative, although the executive has made reference to a "balancing of the books".
Can anyone provide any clarity on what such a generic aim actually means against the background of the club accounts regularly recording a significant trading shortfall and the recent revision of FFP criteria.
In June I wrote
I respect that the man owns the club I have supported for over 50yrs. I respect the fact he is in position to provide the club some financial stability. I respect the fact he is showing the intentions of exploring a successful sustainable future for the club.
I sincerely hope he and the team he assembles will be successful in their endeavours. Any success will be evident from the results on the pitch and the financial results off the pitch
Now be honest how do you really think it is going so far?
The strength of the M. Duchatelet ownership is he has the resources to build a very successful club able to compete toward the upper echelons of the UK game.
The weakness of the M. Duchatelet ownership is he has the resources to do absolutely nothing at all.
Daveaddick has positioned the dangers so very, very well.
I sincerely hope the forthcoming fan meeting is able to come together to create a compelling argument for the club executive to recognise it is ultimately in everyone's interest to form a constructive and creative dialogue between all stakeholders.
Right now we have a bit of a perfect storm in that today's society demands instant satisfaction, pouring petrol on problems facing the club on the pitch. Add RD's BUSINESS MODEL to the pot, and the "my way or the highway" inflexibility that comes with it, and if we're not basking in success on the field, even some of the laissez-faire fans like myself end up disenfranchised and distanced from our club. Stir in a bunch of players that (largely but thankfully not exclusively) lack the spirit and a desire to win for the club, and coaching staff that are restricted to being just that...staff, it's no wonder many (myself included) feel increasing estranged from what we've grown to know and love about being a Charlton supporter.
I can see why next week's meeting's come about, and I just hope the fall-out from it gets the owner's attention and, who knows, maybe brings back a bit of the human element to our club...........after all, we're the customer and if committed supporters of tens of years are disillusioned, then the less committed have already left the building!
Anyone now who is not bothered will probably fit Roland's assessment.
Bothered? Yes I am. Seeing my club go on like this is breaking my bloody heart.