thing is that all of these dodgy dodgers know where too many bodies are buried, too many cupboards hiding skeletons, perhaps lack of prosecution is the price paid for their silence, or perhaps Bloomfield has a cousin in Parliament or the High Court I suspect that tax evasion (this is what this case sounds like and is illegal of course) and avoidance is carried out by MPs, judges, 'aristocrats', BBC Employees, minor royalty, in fact, everyone who is 'anyone' .. and you know what ?.. it is gonna be a devil of a job to stop it when too many lawyers and accountants who have friends and clients in high places are making millions from the practice of 'Tax Law' ..
The HSBC scandal of tax evasion is just one bank. There are dozens more facilitating these crooks. I forget who said in the press recently but the numbers of investigators of these cheats is dwarfed by benefits investigators (not condoning that) but let's put snoops where they can target real money. The legal system is a big barrier with rich fraudsters employing smart lawyers and being judged by their ex-public school mates but like paedo indifference, once the dam is broken there will be a deluge of moneyed egotists doing stir. I live in hope.
It does start to make you think, does paying tax pay for itself? When you take into account what the honest tax paying minority pay and then the subtract trillions lost through avoidence and bogus benefit claims, I wouldn't be surprised if the world was running at a loss!
Globalisation means rich tax evaders - it is immoral and sad. A point will come when people have had enough.
I've already had enough. Enough of my taxes subsidising other people's child benefits when the last thing we need is to encourage people to have more children.
It does start to make you think, does paying tax pay for itself? When you take into account what the honest tax paying minority pay and then the subtract trillions lost through avoidence and bogus benefit claims, I wouldn't be surprised if the world was running at a loss!
First in the UK honest tax payers are the vast majority-PAYE sees to that. Second uncollected taxes are likely to be billions not trillions. Third, to quote the movie, money never sleeps - it's not "lost" it is out there doing something and is probably doing it more efficiently than any Govt could hope to achieve.
It does start to make you think, does paying tax pay for itself? When you take into account what the honest tax paying minority pay and then the subtract trillions lost through avoidence and bogus benefit claims, I wouldn't be surprised if the world was running at a loss!
First in the UK honest tax payers are the vast majority-PAYE sees to that. Second uncollected taxes are likely to be billions not trillions. Third, to quote the movie, money never sleeps - it's not "lost" it is out there doing something and is probably doing it more efficiently than any Govt could hope to achieve.
Righto!
My post wasn't an opinion, just an observation and a bit tongue in cheek, but what I forgot to add, is the billions that must be spent trying to track all these tax dodgers/benefit scroungers down,
It does start to make you think, does paying tax pay for itself? When you take into account what the honest tax paying minority pay and then the subtract trillions lost through avoidence and bogus benefit claims, I wouldn't be surprised if the world was running at a loss!
First in the UK honest tax payers are the vast majority-PAYE sees to that. Second uncollected taxes are likely to be billions not trillions. Third, to quote the movie, money never sleeps - it's not "lost" it is out there doing something and is probably doing it more efficiently than any Govt could hope to achieve.
Righto!
My post wasn't an opinion, just an observation and a bit tongue in cheek, but what I forgot to add, is the billions that must be spent trying to track all these tax dodgers/benefit scroungers down,
Yeah, it does cost a lot of money A few years back I was staying in a hotel (oddball place that made Fawlty Towers seem normal but that's a different story) just outside Campbeltown. Apart from me and a colleague, the whole hotel was full of DSS inspectors on a crackdown on benefit fraud in the town. One of then told me that it was a hotspot for "young single mothers" claiming they were alone when they had their boyfriends living in the council-provided accommodation with them and claiming benefits they weren't entitled to.
I said, well what's the alternative for them? There weren't any jobs in Cambeltown, so the choice for them was either to move to Glasgow (over three hours drive away) or start having kids at the age of 16 and let the State pay. He just said "you got it". The thing is, those poor kids brought into the world for entirely the wrong reason were going to find themselves in the selfsame situation in 16 years time.
Perhaps, long-term, forcing them to make a better decision by making benefits a less attractive/viable option is the way forward. Hard to do though.
It does start to make you think, does paying tax pay for itself? When you take into account what the honest tax paying minority pay and then the subtract trillions lost through avoidence and bogus benefit claims, I wouldn't be surprised if the world was running at a loss!
First in the UK honest tax payers are the vast majority-PAYE sees to that. Second uncollected taxes are likely to be billions not trillions. Third, to quote the movie, money never sleeps - it's not "lost" it is out there doing something and is probably doing it more efficiently than any Govt could hope to achieve.
Righto!
My post wasn't an opinion, just an observation and a bit tongue in cheek, but what I forgot to add, is the billions that must be spent trying to track all these tax dodgers/benefit scroungers down,
Annual cost of benefit fraud is approx £1.3b. I imagine that is absolutely dwarfed by tax avoidance/evasion but until recently there was far more political capital to be made out of being seen to be tough on benefit scroungers than clamping down on hard working entrepreneurs and big businesses. Both are wrong but only one type of fraud seems to anywhere near properly resourced.
It does start to make you think, does paying tax pay for itself? When you take into account what the honest tax paying minority pay and then the subtract trillions lost through avoidence and bogus benefit claims, I wouldn't be surprised if the world was running at a loss!
First in the UK honest tax payers are the vast majority-PAYE sees to that. Second uncollected taxes are likely to be billions not trillions. Third, to quote the movie, money never sleeps - it's not "lost" it is out there doing something and is probably doing it more efficiently than any Govt could hope to achieve.
Righto!
My post wasn't an opinion, just an observation and a bit tongue in cheek, but what I forgot to add, is the billions that must be spent trying to track all these tax dodgers/benefit scroungers down,
Annual cost of benefit fraud is approx £1.3b. I imagine that is absolutely dwarfed by tax avoidance/evasion but until recently there was far more political capital to be made out of being seen to be tough on benefit scroungers than clamping down on hard working entrepreneurs and big businesses. Both are wrong but only one type of fraud seems to anywhere near properly resourced.
I'm not comparing the two, all parasites the lot of em
It does start to make you think, does paying tax pay for itself? When you take into account what the honest tax paying minority pay and then the subtract trillions lost through avoidence and bogus benefit claims, I wouldn't be surprised if the world was running at a loss!
First in the UK honest tax payers are the vast majority-PAYE sees to that. Second uncollected taxes are likely to be billions not trillions. Third, to quote the movie, money never sleeps - it's not "lost" it is out there doing something and is probably doing it more efficiently than any Govt could hope to achieve.
Righto!
My post wasn't an opinion, just an observation and a bit tongue in cheek, but what I forgot to add, is the billions that must be spent trying to track all these tax dodgers/benefit scroungers down,
Yeah, it does cost a lot of money A few years back I was staying in a hotel (oddball place that made Fawlty Towers seem normal but that's a different story) just outside Campbeltown. Apart from me and a colleague, the whole hotel was full of DSS inspectors on a crackdown on benefit fraud in the town. One of then told me that it was a hotspot for "young single mothers" claiming they were alone when they had their boyfriends living in the council-provided accommodation with them and claiming benefits they weren't entitled to.
I said, well what's the alternative for them? There weren't any jobs in Cambeltown, so the choice for them was either to move to Glasgow (over three hours drive away) or start having kids at the age of 16 and let the State pay. He just said "you got it". The thing is, those poor kids brought into the world for entirely the wrong reason were going to find themselves in the selfsame situation in 16 years time.
Perhaps, long-term, forcing them to make a better decision by making benefits a less attractive/viable option is the way forward. Hard to do though.
Benefit 'fraudsters', especially females, are sitting ducks. They are usually immobile, not very 'sophisticated', vulnerable and can't afford lawyers and accountants to manage their 'affairs'. Nicking a few looks good on the DPW stats. Each conviction probably costs more than the money saved. But it's stats that count and not the money. It's the laughing scumbag tax dodging millionaires who need sorting out. But we all know that. Problem is the HMRC has neither the real expertise or the metaphorical balls to do it. At least the Bloomfield case has been well publicised. The ensuing public outrage or at least disquiet might engender a response from 'the authorities' over the whole unseemly debacle
It does start to make you think, does paying tax pay for itself? When you take into account what the honest tax paying minority pay and then the subtract trillions lost through avoidence and bogus benefit claims, I wouldn't be surprised if the world was running at a loss!
All nations seem to be in debt, so it seems to be the case Rob. That debt is owed to someone, rich individuals and rich institutions who avoid and evade tax would be my guess? I think the answer is right there.
If they spent proportionally as much chasing the top 5% of tax avoiders/evaders as they spend on benefit fraudsters and ordinary bods who might not declare a tenner here and there it would be extremely cost effective. But as has been pointed out elsewhere, there is no will from anyone in a position to do something about it, because they are part of it...
It does start to make you think, does paying tax pay for itself? When you take into account what the honest tax paying minority pay and then the subtract trillions lost through avoidence and bogus benefit claims, I wouldn't be surprised if the world was running at a loss!
All nations seem to be in debt, so it seems to be the case Rob. That debt is owed to someone, rich individuals and rich institutions who avoid and evade tax would be my guess? I think the answer is right there.
If they spent proportionally as much chasing the top 5% of tax avoiders/evaders as they spend on benefit fraudsters and ordinary bods who might not declare a tenner here and there it would be extremely cost effective. But as has been pointed out elsewhere, there is no will from anyone in a position to do something about it, because they are part of it...
The whole global economy is a Ponzi scheme. Incoming revenue used to pay off interest or the few maturing 'bonds', the huge lump of steaming debt is never ever reduced, it increases instead. If an individual fund manager did likewise, he/she would do 30 years in stir, or not. Money as 'value' does not exist. Just add a few points to the banks' computer databases, print a few million more high value notes and the government will 'guarantee' it. The gold standard has gone, guarantee 'cash' with what ?. Governments will soon not need to increase tax revenues, 'quantative easing' will cover all expenses, balanced with reduced spending on public infrastructure and benefits except for increased military and police budgets which will be needed to control 'the huddled masses'. Welcome to 2030, at the lastest
It does start to make you think, does paying tax pay for itself? When you take into account what the honest tax paying minority pay and then the subtract trillions lost through avoidence and bogus benefit claims, I wouldn't be surprised if the world was running at a loss!
All nations seem to be in debt, so it seems to be the case Rob. That debt is owed to someone, rich individuals and rich institutions who avoid and evade tax would be my guess? I think the answer is right there.
If they spent proportionally as much chasing the top 5% of tax avoiders/evaders as they spend on benefit fraudsters and ordinary bods who might not declare a tenner here and there it would be extremely cost effective. But as has been pointed out elsewhere, there is no will from anyone in a position to do something about it, because they are part of it...
Why is it not possible to extradite Bloomfield and put him on trial? Does the HMRC really have the power to offer immunity from prosecution in such cases? Did HMRC consult with the responsible minister (Osborne) on their decision? If not, why not in a case of such public interest. and is the head of HMRC going to take responsibility and resign for not doing so? Was HMRC's decision referred to the police and reviewed by the DPP?
The evidence points to Bloomfield having defrauded the public purse of in excess of £20m at least. If the Justice Minister (Grayling) does not think that such a crime should be looked into and prosecuted he should be offering his resignation.
It does start to make you think, does paying tax pay for itself? When you take into account what the honest tax paying minority pay and then the subtract trillions lost through avoidence and bogus benefit claims, I wouldn't be surprised if the world was running at a loss!
All nations seem to be in debt, so it seems to be the case Rob. That debt is owed to someone, rich individuals and rich institutions who avoid and evade tax would be my guess? I think the answer is right there.
If they spent proportionally as much chasing the top 5% of tax avoiders/evaders as they spend on benefit fraudsters and ordinary bods who might not declare a tenner here and there it would be extremely cost effective. But as has been pointed out elsewhere, there is no will from anyone in a position to do something about it, because they are part of it...
Not arguing any of that, but when you've lived amongst the benefit scroungers as a pose to the 5% tax evaders, it kind of seems more current if you know what I mean; and lets not get mixed up with benefit scroungers and the millions of forgotten working poor, as I like to call them (or, ordinary bods who might not declare a tenner), who do graft, but have to live on less income than those scrounging benefit.
The "5%" = Parasites Benefit scroungers = Parasites
It does start to make you think, does paying tax pay for itself? When you take into account what the honest tax paying minority pay and then the subtract trillions lost through avoidence and bogus benefit claims, I wouldn't be surprised if the world was running at a loss!
All nations seem to be in debt, so it seems to be the case Rob. That debt is owed to someone, rich individuals and rich institutions who avoid and evade tax would be my guess? I think the answer is right there.
If they spent proportionally as much chasing the top 5% of tax avoiders/evaders as they spend on benefit fraudsters and ordinary bods who might not declare a tenner here and there it would be extremely cost effective. But as has been pointed out elsewhere, there is no will from anyone in a position to do something about it, because they are part of it...
The whole global economy is a Ponzi scheme. Incoming revenue used to pay off interest or the few maturing 'bonds', the huge lump of steaming debt is never ever reduced, it increases instead. If an individual fund manager did likewise, he/she would do 30 years in stir, or not. Money as 'value' does not exist. Just add a few points to the banks' computer databases, print a few million more high value notes and the government will 'guarantee' it. The gold standard has gone, guarantee 'cash' with what ?. Governments will soon not need to increase tax revenues, 'quantative easing' will cover all expenses, balanced with reduced spending on public infrastructure and benefits except for increased military and police budgets which will be needed to control 'the huddled masses'. Welcome to 2030, at the lastest
I am nowhere near bright enough to understand any of that Lincs. I honestly don't know if you are agreeing with me, or telling me I am clueless...
It does start to make you think, does paying tax pay for itself? When you take into account what the honest tax paying minority pay and then the subtract trillions lost through avoidence and bogus benefit claims, I wouldn't be surprised if the world was running at a loss!
All nations seem to be in debt, so it seems to be the case Rob. That debt is owed to someone, rich individuals and rich institutions who avoid and evade tax would be my guess? I think the answer is right there.
If they spent proportionally as much chasing the top 5% of tax avoiders/evaders as they spend on benefit fraudsters and ordinary bods who might not declare a tenner here and there it would be extremely cost effective. But as has been pointed out elsewhere, there is no will from anyone in a position to do something about it, because they are part of it...
Not arguing any of that, but when you've lived amongst the benefit scroungers as a pose to the 5% tax evaders, it kind of seems more current if you know what I mean; and lets not get mixed up with benefit scroungers and the millions of forgotten working poor, as I like to call them (or, ordinary bods who might not declare a tenner), who do graft, but have to live on less income than those scrounging benefit.
The "5%" = Parasites Benefit scroungers = Parasites
I really don't ( know what you mean ) mate. I could live among rats nibbling my feet, but be aware that lions eating people alive are a far greater threat to my life... The elite rely on us plebs getting cross about a few scroungers getting away with it, and telling us we have to "tighten our belts" because of them, when the truth is the country is awash with money, all held by a couple of thousand of people who pay no tax whatsoever, and could solve a lot of the problems overnight, and not even notice a difference in their lifestyle...
The working poor are more undermined by the rich elite ( who are the ones who pay them the minimum wage, forcing them to claim the in work benefits ordinary tax payers fund ), not by the scroungers ( who I agree should be sorted, but in proportion to their cost to the country ).
Can't beat a bunch of expats discussing tax and benefits. LOL
Fair comment mate, but we do still pay tax, face the same situations where we are, and read about and understand what's going on "back in the old country"...
Tax avoidance through exploiting loopholes is not the same as living in another country. Thats why i dont agree with the stick sportsmen like Lewis Hamilton get for living abroad. They dont live here, their job takes them around the world, so why should they pay tax here.
There is a line to be drawn between people hiding their money deliberately and people attracting green eyed jealousy.
Can't beat a bunch of expats discussing tax and benefits. LOL
It's partly because of tax and me being an honest Joe that I live in France, I'm still paying a tax bill that I owe HMRC that I couldn't afford to pay at the time because the money put aside for it was used when I couldn't work for 7 month due to bad health, but being the honest knob I am was, I submitted the tax return anyway and set up a payment plan. I then spent the following 6 month in and out of graft because of illness (which finally led to/caused my transplant in 2013). Now they've finally stopped adding interest, I hope it'll be paid off in 2015.
Just to clarify Algarve, I'm not defending the 5%, I'm just not making the distinction between the two like you. You go on like all benefit scroungers are poor people on the bread line. They (the scroungers) seem to feed em selves every week and get some decent clobber, I couldn't even afford to even feed myself towards the end. To those on benefit/disability that truly need it for one reason or another, absolutely no problem at all, to those that take the piss, just as bad as the 5%.
Comments
Boils my piss
I suspect that tax evasion (this is what this case sounds like and is illegal of course) and avoidance is carried out by MPs, judges, 'aristocrats', BBC Employees, minor royalty, in fact, everyone who is 'anyone' .. and you know what ?.. it is gonna be a devil of a job to stop it when too many lawyers and accountants who have friends and clients in high places are making millions from the practice of 'Tax Law' ..
My post wasn't an opinion, just an observation and a bit tongue in cheek, but what I forgot to add, is the billions that must be spent trying to track all these tax dodgers/benefit scroungers down,
I said, well what's the alternative for them? There weren't any jobs in Cambeltown, so the choice for them was either to move to Glasgow (over three hours drive away) or start having kids at the age of 16 and let the State pay. He just said "you got it". The thing is, those poor kids brought into the world for entirely the wrong reason were going to find themselves in the selfsame situation in 16 years time.
Perhaps, long-term, forcing them to make a better decision by making benefits a less attractive/viable option is the way forward. Hard to do though.
Benefit 'fraudsters', especially females, are sitting ducks. They are usually immobile, not very 'sophisticated', vulnerable and can't afford lawyers and accountants to manage their 'affairs'. Nicking a few looks good on the DPW stats. Each conviction probably costs more than the money saved. But it's stats that count and not the money.
It's the laughing scumbag tax dodging millionaires who need sorting out. But we all know that. Problem is the HMRC has neither the real expertise or the metaphorical balls to do it. At least the Bloomfield case has been well publicised. The ensuing public outrage or at least disquiet might engender a response from 'the authorities' over the whole unseemly debacle
If they spent proportionally as much chasing the top 5% of tax avoiders/evaders as they spend on benefit fraudsters and ordinary bods who might not declare a tenner here and there it would be extremely cost effective. But as has been pointed out elsewhere, there is no will from anyone in a position to do something about it, because they are part of it...
If an individual fund manager did likewise, he/she would do 30 years in stir, or not.
Money as 'value' does not exist. Just add a few points to the banks' computer databases, print a few million more high value notes and the government will 'guarantee' it. The gold standard has gone, guarantee 'cash' with what ?.
Governments will soon not need to increase tax revenues, 'quantative easing' will cover all expenses, balanced with reduced spending on public infrastructure and benefits except for increased military and police budgets which will be needed to control 'the huddled masses'. Welcome to 2030, at the lastest
The evidence points to Bloomfield having defrauded the public purse of in excess of £20m at least. If the Justice Minister (Grayling) does not think that such a crime should be looked into and prosecuted he should be offering his resignation.
The "5%" = Parasites
Benefit scroungers = Parasites
The working poor are more undermined by the rich elite ( who are the ones who pay them the minimum wage, forcing them to claim the in work benefits ordinary tax payers fund ), not by the scroungers ( who I agree should be sorted, but in proportion to their cost to the country ).
There is a line to be drawn between people hiding their money deliberately and people attracting green eyed jealousy.
amwas, I submitted the tax return anyway and set up a payment plan. I then spent the following 6 month in and out of graft because of illness (which finally led to/caused my transplant in 2013). Now they've finally stopped adding interest, I hope it'll be paid off in 2015.Just to clarify Algarve, I'm not defending the 5%, I'm just not making the distinction between the two like you. You go on like all benefit scroungers are poor people on the bread line. They (the scroungers) seem to feed em selves every week and get some decent clobber, I couldn't even afford to even feed myself towards the end.
To those on benefit/disability that truly need it for one reason or another, absolutely no problem at all, to those that take the piss, just as bad as the 5%.