Do Charlton have a problem ? Some say yes some say no

Covered End

My view, is that whether it's a football club or let's say a shop or a restaurant/food outlet or whatever.
If perhaps half of your customers, or even a quarter, believe that there are SIGNIFICANT problems, then there ARE problems and they need to be addressed.

Woolworths for instance, were generally known as a shop, that stocked all sorts of items, but NOT MAINLY, what their customers wanted. The public wouldn't have a bad word to say about dear old Woolworths, except, they don't often shop there, as it didn't stock what the customer wants/needs.

Woolworths no longer exist, the customers stopped going there.

If Charlton will not listen and will not enter into dialogue with their fans, they will not be successful. I don't wish to rehash all the particular issues that we all agree/disagree with. I just want to emphasize, what I have said.

Sorry to start another thread, but I thought it was important to emphasize, to both the club and the fans, that can't see any problems and believe nothing needs addressing.

Bubble

I miss Woolworths

bexleycafc

I honestly believe everyone is over reacting regarding RD and KM.

Ut oh.....

iaitch

Every little thing seems to become a big issue, they can do nothing right in some people eyes and minds.

PL54

Colinesque

Henry Irving

Covered End said:

My view, is that whether it's a football club or let's say a shop or a restaurant/food outlet or whatever.
If perhaps half of your customers, or even a quarter, believe that there are SIGNIFICANT problems, then there ARE problems and they need to be addressed.

I agree. Regardless of if it is true if people believe there is an issue significant to make them not renew STs or sponsorships etc then there IS a problem.

It might be an irrational belief based on rumour and misinformation (and I'm not saying that is the case) but it is still a problem.

Look at the MMR scare. Totally bad science, research based on only 10 cases which has been trashed by every medical person for years.

But some people believed it and so vaccination rates for children are significantly down and so more children (not just the unvaccinated) are a risk.

shirty5

The proof will be at the start of August to see how many have purchased season tickets. If they don't announce how many have been sold, then the attendance for the first home game of the season will be the guide to be based on.

WayneK

Without diverting the thread, my son was fine until he had the MMR jab.

guinnessaddick

Roland is the answer to Woolworth's pick'n'mix.

Atletico Addick

I think one of the main problems now is how are we going to attract the next generation of fans? As a whole it seems the older generation are slightly less affected by it all and the younger fans are flocking off elsewhere to do else what. This is noticeable on a match day, and also on social media.

Why are they less interested/annoyed with it? Most probably because as they grow up they won't be going up with a team of players, or a few teams, plus a set manager (until there is genuinely a better option in that department). They'll be growing up with a merry go round of players, as we have seen already, and managers too. It's hard to form affection for this in any form, especially when you know the owners motives revolve around money and breaking even, of which is a very formidable task. I'm guessing it will need player sales, fair enough but not if you sell every asset every season, you need to have some form of drive as a Football Club and cut costs elsewhere if needs be to keep hold of a player and TRY to gun for promotion, even if for one season.

These young fans are essentially the future generations of CAFC supporting, what are we doing to keep them? And trust me in that they don't come to The Valley for Air Con and nice bright seats. This is also not to mention the whole WHUFC @ the Olympic Stadium with their pricing structure and the base they are reaching out to, who are a Premier League team and will be for some time I'm sure. At least in the past we had something unique to bring them to The Valley over elsewhere, that 'something unique' has gone, even the most positive of fans can sense in some form or another.

As you say, "If Charlton will not listen and will not enter into dialogue with their fans, they will not be successful.", they indeed won't be but are not registering this.

danhughes99

So if a number believe there's a problem, then there is a problem.

I'd ask, who does the problem lie with?

Henry Irving

danhughes99 said:

So if a number believe there's a problem, then there is a problem.

I'd ask, who does the problem lie with?

If you are a business and your customers are walking away then you, the business, have a problem.

"The meaning of your communication is the response you get"

thenewbie

True but there's very little agreement as to what the problem actually is, much less how to solve it. Some people despise the network entirely and want RD out no matter what. Some think the network COULD work and RD COULD be a decent/good owner, but currently is going about it wrong. Some people reckon the network is absolutely fine as it is, but the problem is just communication. And there are some who think nothing needs to change, at all. I know which camp I am in but I've seen arguments for all four varying from convincing to ridiculous, and my personal position has changed more than once - I can't imagine I am alone in that.

So that gives us a problem when it comes to solving the problem - people who are more or less happy with the network aren't going to join in protests designed to get Roland out for good. People who want Roland gone aren't likely to compromise if KM did suddenly start talking to the trust more. Those who think everything is fine aren't going to act at all, except possibly to argue with the other camps. So people start debating every decision and arguing over minutiae and all the while... nothing changes. And that won't help anyone.

Covered End

danhughes99 said:

So if a number believe there's a problem, then there is a problem.

I'd ask, who does the problem lie with?

It doesn't matter who the problem lies with. If a customer in a shop wishes to complain and asks to see the manager, then his complaint needs to be addressed not ignored.

The customer may be wrong and may then accept he is wrong, after an explanation.
However, if he is told, the manager is not willing to talk to him, then the customer is left with a complaint and even more angry.

This is where we are at unfortunately and it might be quite easily resolved.

lolwray

there is a distinction between customers and fans although woolworths is a decent comparison

if your bank made a howler ...you change banks ,if you bought an off piece of meat at sainsburys youd think twice about going there,in both cases youd have some legal recourse .if you buy a season ticket at a football club and they serve up horrible football for the season thats part of the misfortune of having an emotional tie and the rollercoaster of being a supporter .Being a supporter is an emotional tie ,in most cases a life long bond (,outstretching births deaths marriages etc) I am sure we have all chanted "i am charlton til i die" at some time maybe not recently however .where the comparison works is that a business/club is at its best when its customers/fans are engaged .

We are clearly not engaged/communicated with properly at the moment.I have nt looked but is there a mission statement on the website ? probably not .We will always have a hard core of fans who will attend but those ties made over generations could slowly dissipate but ownership of a football club like custom is temporary our support is a tie/bond

danhughes99

Covered End said:

danhughes99 said:

So if a number believe there's a problem, then there is a problem.

I'd ask, who does the problem lie with?

It doesn't matter who the problem lies with. If a customer in a shop wishes to complain and asks to see the manager, then his complaint needs to be addressed not ignored.

The customer may be wrong and may then accept he is wrong, after an explanation.
However, if he is told, the manager is not willing to talk to him, then the customer is left with a complaint and even more angry.

This is where we are at unfortunately and it might be quite easily resolved.

That all depends on how valuable the customer is to said company.
I used to work for a bank and customers used to complain (even when they were in the wrong) they then used to threaten and actually close all their accounts, taking the £86 they have saved up with them. Does that really affect a multinational organisation? Did the bank care? Did the board of said bank come and meet them and persuade them not too?

Truth is, them funds are insignificant to such a company with the turnover and profit it has. Same situation applies to us.

People are threatening to take their money out of our club, thing is the OWNER does not see it as a lot of money and can do without it, so it seems he is willing to close the door behind you as you leave.

Be careful what you threaten as it seems the owner will call your bluff.

rikofold

Henry Irving said:

danhughes99 said:

So if a number believe there's a problem, then there is a problem.

I'd ask, who does the problem lie with?

If you are a business and your customers are walking away then you, the business, have a problem.

"The meaning of your communication is the response you get"

Spot on Henry - I shall use that phrase.

dickplumb

What prompted me to not go anymore was Meire's handling of the appointment of Luzon, I still think she is being economical with the truth. Also her comment about the fans having to get used to things that Roland does. This pushed me finally over the edge. I had not been enjoying the Valley experience for a while, including most of last Season. The treatment of Riga after he saved us from relegation was shabby. The farce of appointing Luzon after he had been sacked at Liege. Also the appointment of RIGA at SL. The appointment of players from the network, with a few exceptions, has largely been a failure. When we have looked outside of the network bringing in Coquelin, Vetokele, Gudmundsson, etc has largely been a success.

danhughes99

The thing is, we all need this club more than RD needs us.

If we all walk away, so be it. In time he will have a successful sports team with great facilities that he can market to a new audience.

We could well be the new Fulham! Full of tourists, after work night outers and corporates in suites.

RD does not need us as fans, or our funds short-mid term. We need charlton, that's why he can hold us to ransom.

A-R-T-H-U-R

Covered End said:

danhughes99 said:

So if a number believe there's a problem, then there is a problem.

I'd ask, who does the problem lie with?

It doesn't matter who the problem lies with. If a customer in a shop wishes to complain and asks to see the manager, then his complaint needs to be addressed not ignored.

The customer may be wrong and may then accept he is wrong, after an explanation.
However, if he is told, the manager is not willing to talk to him, then the customer is left with a complaint and even more angry.

This is where we are at unfortunately and it might be quite easily resolved.

Exactly, you would complain to the manager, KD, you wouldn't demand to see Mr FW Woolworth himself and then demand to know the details of how he is running his business.

_MrDick

If we were sitting at the top of the league and hadn't gone on that awful run without a win there would be no need for threads like this. Not a lover of the network but it's all we have. Love my team though ....

kentred2

danhughes99 said:

The thing is, we all need this club more than RD needs us.

If we all walk away, so be it. In time he will have a successful sports team with great facilities that he can market to a new audience.

We could well be the new Fulham! Full of tourists, after work night outers and corporates in suites.

RD does not need us as fans, or our funds short-mid term. We need charlton, that's why he can hold us to ransom.

And that us precisely why he has to be forced out. The network apologists are in the way of that

Covered End

danhughes99 said:

The thing is, we all need this club more than RD needs us.

If we all walk away, so be it. In time he will have a successful sports team with great facilities that he can market to a new audience.

We could well be the new Fulham! Full of tourists, after work night outers and corporates in suites.

RD does not need us as fans, or our funds short-mid term. We need charlton, that's why he can hold us to ransom.

This is the whole point of why I started this thread. Some fans and in this instance, your good self. Just don't get it.

In you earlier reply you said re the complainant "that all depends on how valuable the customer is to said company. "
Now I know what you mean, but if you're not addressing your customers, then you may never know, how important that customer may be to you. That customer, who looks like they haven't got £100 to their name and only have £86 in their account with you, actually has £1M stashed in various other banks and portfolios. You never spoke to him though, so you never knew.

We don't all need this club, more than RD needs us. Once again, that's the whole point. Our ACTUAL attendances have plummeted for the last 2 games, proving you are incorrect.

If we all walk away, he will not have a successful sports team, that he can market to a new audience.

He can't even market it to his existing customers.

dan your comments emphasise precisely why I started this thread. No offence meant and good to chat.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

thenewbie

kentred2 said:

danhughes99 said:

The thing is, we all need this club more than RD needs us.

If we all walk away, so be it. In time he will have a successful sports team with great facilities that he can market to a new audience.

We could well be the new Fulham! Full of tourists, after work night outers and corporates in suites.

RD does not need us as fans, or our funds short-mid term. We need charlton, that's why he can hold us to ransom.

And that us precisely why he has to be forced out. The network apologists are in the way of that

I thought you were advocating boycott until he was gone though? Surely that way it would merely accelerate his turning the club into a corporation instead? From RD's position, fans who don't go are fans who aren't a problem.

dizzee

That's a bit low to start bringing Woolworths into this - leave them out of it

Covered End

colin1961 said:

No we don't ..... We are financially secure and in this day and age that's pretty good in football .

You need a stable footing to move on get the foundations right first

I agree with your comments, apart from the fact that we don't have a problem.

If nearly half of our S/T holders, who can attend without having to pay at the turnstyle on the night, don't bother to turn up, we clearly do have a problem, whether you think there is one or not.

danhughes99

Covered End said:

danhughes99 said:

The thing is, we all need this club more than RD needs us.

If we all walk away, so be it. In time he will have a successful sports team with great facilities that he can market to a new audience.

We could well be the new Fulham! Full of tourists, after work night outers and corporates in suites.

RD does not need us as fans, or our funds short-mid term. We need charlton, that's why he can hold us to ransom.

This is the whole point of why I started this thread. Some fans and in this instance, your good self. Just don't get it.

In you earlier reply you said re the complainant "that all depends on how valuable the customer is to said company. "
Now I know what you mean, but if you're not addressing your customers, then you may never know, how important that customer may be to you. That customer, who looks like they haven't got £100 to their name and only have £86 in their account with you, actually has £1M stashed in various other banks and portfolios. You never spoke to him though, so you never knew.

We don't all need this club, more than RD needs us. Once again, that's the whole point. Our ACTUAL attendances have plummeted for the last 2 games, proving you are incorrect.

If we all walk away, he will not have a successful sports team, that he can market to a new audience.

He can't even market it to his existing customers.

dan your comments emphasise precisely why I started this thread. No offence meant and good to chat.

What the bank never had, the bank will never miss.

But has the falling attendances really affected him. His net worth will not have differed, he doesn't need to have cava instead of champagne that evening.

Why will he not have a successful sports team if we all walk away?

He hasn't got to appease us and persuade us to stay, all he has to do is sell X amount of tickets.

No offence taken but just because my opinion differs to yours does not make mine wrong. For the record, I haven't fully made my mind up about the ownership structure. I don't think they are as bad as a few make out, but I also don't see we have too much choice.
We can not force a man to sell.

danhughes99

Kentred how do you propose to force him out. He does not need to sell!! And how are the "apologists" stopping you?

And what's to say that the next guy is any better.

JiMMy 85

I pinpointed the moment it all started going wrong for Woolworths.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaW0M6V85j8

Algarveaddick

danhughes99 said:

Covered End said:

danhughes99 said:

So if a number believe there's a problem, then there is a problem.

I'd ask, who does the problem lie with?

It doesn't matter who the problem lies with. If a customer in a shop wishes to complain and asks to see the manager, then his complaint needs to be addressed not ignored.

The customer may be wrong and may then accept he is wrong, after an explanation.
However, if he is told, the manager is not willing to talk to him, then the customer is left with a complaint and even more angry.

This is where we are at unfortunately and it might be quite easily resolved.

That all depends on how valuable the customer is to said company.
I used to work for a bank and customers used to complain (even when they were in the wrong) they then used to threaten and actually close all their accounts, taking the £86 they have saved up with them. Does that really affect a multinational organisation? Did the bank care? Did the board of said bank come and meet them and persuade them not too?

Truth is, them funds are insignificant to such a company with the turnover and profit it has. Same situation applies to us.

People are threatening to take their money out of our club, thing is the OWNER does not see it as a lot of money and can do without it, so it seems he is willing to close the door behind you as you leave.

Be careful what you threaten as it seems the owner will call your bluff.

Are there people paying £1000 a ticket who are delighted with the situation then? Are they getting Information the rest of us are not? Are they seeing a winning coherent team playing in a parallel universe? The answer is no, there are not people paying that much, or seeing that. As many box holders and corporate hospitality users as Covered Enders will be pissed off Dan, and just as likely to withdraw their support. But even if they were not, just a 1000 off the gate would still be a blow to a small network like Roland's - it may be international, but it isn't a " multinational " as we understand it.

The reality of the situation, even as rosy as you perceive it, is not the issue being discussed here, it's the PERCEPTION. Whether those of us who see it as a problem are right or wrong is of no relevance whatsoever, the fact that a significant number of people do see it as a problem is what needs to be addressed.