The hullabaloo on the "Pitchshag- gate" thread got me thinking about this "family club" thing.
After reading posting on here for years I've grown to just accept that we are a "Family club" tag without ever really thinking about it because it is constantly banged on about. However I have never personally seen us like that and had certainly never thought such a thing before reading Charlton forums.
What does it even mean though? Surely every club now has family sections and 99% of a club's support outside of the big clubs or in in areas with more than one club are due to family links?
I started going Charlton because my dad introduced me to them (bastard) as his had 30 years prior but that is hardly unique of Charlton and the majority of (decent) football fans find a club this way.
My old man very rarely goes now as he is involved in Saturday football but other than the odd time one of my brothers will join me I;ll end up just going with mates or on my own.
I am sure I'll take my own children one day but I don't get the family club thing.
To be honest I have always seen it as how others wish to project their view/ experience of Charlton onto everything else. "Can't do that we are a family club, shouldn't dot this we are a family club", "Lawrie Wilson showed a bit of ankle but we are a family club etc"
I've never since us like that. Ive seen us as an eclectic mix of a working class and middle class people from, in the main, south east London and NW Kent. Some who over the years will have loved/ still love and punch up and a pint and others who will like Opera singers on the pitch and face paint. The vast majority of us are probably somewhere in between that spectrum, some even appearing to embrace elements at each end.
I would rather see us tone down the welcoming, Charlton fans are so friendly to the opposition reputation if it meant it instilled a different winning mentality into the club which promoted success on the pitch. Not saying to completely dispense with it and start lobbing coins into the Jimmy Seed each game, just perhaps make the Valley less welcoming in terms of atmosphere as that prick Pardew alluded to once.
Point is everyone is different and everyone relates to the club differently. I go to football and have a rant and a swear among mainly like minded individuals in the covered end where as it would be a completely different experience for West Stand ST holders who would have a different view of what the club is too them.
Many people including myself don't relate to the "cosy nice family club dogma" but are still a decent hard working family man and decent human being in the main .
I feel that the wholesome family club image, whilst not saying there is anything wrong with it, is almost deemed to be the only truth for everyone and often used as a stick to beat those who don't conform to their image of cosy, happy clappy Charlton which for many of us is not what football or "our" club is about.
It seems pretty baseless and banal as I reckon 99% of clubs are family clubs and I am sure many like me have never really resonated with the family club thing that we are constantly led to believe is a sacred virtue of Charlton Athletic.
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I personally think it is funny, i don't have kids but i would imagine if i did and they understood what they were doing and talking about in the video, then that reflects on my parenting not the Club. I.E if your 7 year old son knows what "scoring at the valley" and what that woman is doing in the video - then that reflects on your parenting - not CAFC.
My response to questioning would be something wrestling related i would imagine
As i said i don't have kids so maybe talking bollocks. but common sense tells me the above.
All a family club means is that they accommodate kids, and go the extra mile to please them (much like the woman in the video that went the extra mile to please her Charlton supporting fella)
As a value that it wants to project, being a "Family Club" is in the fabric of what the club perceive itself to be and so this projection of the club with the slightly smutty shagging on the pitch goes against what the club wants the football fan base at large to perceive of the club.
I'm not offended by the ad itself, I am offended that a short term communications message should go against a the values and communications strategy of 20 - 30 years.
It's like that communist party that calls itself Green or the party for the Islington middle class that calls itself New Labour or I Can't Believe it's Not Butter. People believe it but it's dross really. It's just that calling yourself a club for drunk blokes, or the Red Party or Old Feckless or Taste's like slime doesn't really do it for the public.
I was always proud that our club went out to involve the local kids in various projects.
And the anti-racism campaign.
As a community club, Charlton was nationally recognised within football, even by people outside of football.
We even won awards for it.
The community stuff however, that really DOES make a difference, the campaigning against knife violence, racism, the efforts to help those with various disabilities but crucially, none of that affects the actual team in the slightest.
Similarly, the expression that a player is a "proper Charlton type player" implies that supporters of Watford, Reading, Ipswich etc wouldn't want a hard working, loyal player who was a credit to the club
Community club yes.
In truth I don't think we have much of an identity outside of our own bubble, just another club that 'used to be in the Premier League and should have never sacked Curbishley'.
Unless we can attract new fans,who bring family and friends, we could start to
yo-yo between Champ and League 1 for ever and a day. whoever is the owner whether Duchalet or CAFC fan/businessmen.
We need our own identity ? what about if we were the number 1 team in a network?
A stronger one than we are in at the moment.
Can we even have our own identity if you are part of a network,
We can't even get anywhere near West ham, because of the difference in finance.
Or are we now known as Sexy Charlton instead of Trainspotters ?
Don't get me wrong I'm as tribal as the next fan and go mental when we score and will get carried away with singing at away games and swearing and all the rest of it. However, I think once you get to a certain age and realise the whole football factory image is actually a bad life to lead, I'm glad this club isn't like that.
And the other thing I will add is that our fans are passionate and really do give everything in them on match day. I think the family tag comes from the fact our local rivals (Millwall), are perceived as one of the hardest clubs in the country when you consider the old school hooligan days. We made a decision years ago to push our community work and push the emphasis that we were a good day out for a family. I'm pretty sure we were one of the first clubs to do kid for a quid. The coaches into areas where they don't have an established football team was a great idea. We can't compete with London. They all flock to Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal etc.
We needed support and I'm proud the way club went about getting that support. I often speak to non football people about why and how I go away (when I do, not so much anymore). Inevitably the topic of trouble always comes up. They go have you ever had any trouble or seen anything. Them I explain to them that I'm on the supporters club coach and it is run by absolute legends like Betty Hurchins and I travel with Les Turner (some of you may know these supporters). I have to explain that it's as far away from a hooligan element as you can get. But it's a great day out, because we're all in it together and we have a bond and we support the club.
So what of some of the people on that coach are seniors (politest way I can put it) and they aren't the type of fan you would associate with passion and the man's environment. But you can be rest assured that these people turn up week in, week out, home and away.
You can still show your passion even if you aren't singing and giving it to opposing fans.
And my final point is those guys that got put away for chanting about Stephen Lawrence after Fulham away in the FA Cup 3rd round in 2012. Now those guys wanted to be the 'geezers'. I remember one of them in particular coz he was the same age as me and went to Mallory secondary school and I went Bonus Pastor, quite close geographically. The guy is the same age as me and is doing 18 months inside. And you know he's not a career criminal so how the hell will he cope. I only raised this to point out that that's the alternative to another extreme.
I know for a fact what type of supporter I'd rather be and what club in associated with. Life's too short.
I've often heard it said on here that Charlton are somehow a special club; "Only Charlton, blah, blah blah". Of course the club is special to us, but I don't think we are really any more ore less remarkable than any other team.
You sound like a younger saner version of myself !
we need to be a broad church and welcome Atheist(that's me) and Agnostics(that's me) and theMacho guys who help with the atmosphere but cross the line,
EG. Scott Parker's a greedy Bastard is borderline
Where Scott Parker is a Cunx is over the line.
Well done guys as one family of 4 told me on the slow tube after that game they won't go to another away game.
The problem as I see it is not so much the video per se and it's clearly targeting a specific demographic. It's that it's has been pushed to all demographics, many of whom see it as tasteless at best and certainly inappropriate to children - could the video be shown on the big screen today, got example? Yet the club has allowed this to develop a national profile.
Simply, I'm not sure the intended outcome of interest in pitch bookings merits damaging your community club identity with those whom you're targeting for a long term relationship with the club. The club is much more than a hostile atmosphere or otherwise on a Saturday.
When i was living in Scotland, i went to most of the northern away games, we would often be the first Charlton fans to arrive, im proud that other then one part of Sheffield, we never received any trouble, even going in the "home" pubs, as they would say the same thing, Charlton are a decent club with decent fans.
Maybe that is boring to some of our fans and maybe that image is going to change but i personally hope not.
But I don't mind the family/community tag at all. I've just finished reading running with the firm, which is the book based on the football hooligan film ID. Now it's good reading, but that's all it is, a good read.
If people want to go round kicking the heads in of other supporters, then that's their choice. But as I intimated above, life's too short. One scuffle or one punch to the head the wrong way, you could be dead. Now you want to tell me being associated with a harder club is worth that.
Don't get me wrong. If I'm ever physically threatened by someone or a friend or family member is, I'd do what I can to defend myself.
Anyhow I think I'm moving too far away from the original post. You can label us as you want. And the fact that my upbringing has been with my dad and uncle going to Charlton all these years, then by that, I guess it is a family club
I am immensely proud of the uniqueness of our clubs valley party, the pioneering of kick it out and the continued community- orientated aspects the club strives for.
At the same time iam not a fan of opera singers, abba tributes and face painted adults all of which are activities many enjoy at the club and would associate as being of what u believe is their interpretation of a " family club" and good luck to them. Just never resonated with me.