Cameron & Miliband C4 21.00-22.35
Comments
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I know politicians don't like to answer the question, but when EM was asked the simple question, 'the budget deficit is currently 75 billion a year, if Labour gained power what would it be in 5 years time ' he didn't give a figure?0
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Clegg for PM?carly burn said:Milliband trying so desperately to emulate his hero Blair. It's a No from me.
The damage that f****r done will never be reversed!
Cameron can go whistle n'all.
Devil and the deep blue sea.1 -
Straw poll after had 54/46 to Cameron.
I thought Milibland was marginally better than I expected.
Call me Dave - masterclass in avoiding the question
Milibland - full of empty rhetoric. Best answer was on Europe.
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Erm, he said in 5 years time he was aiming to have eliminated it. So the zero figure was implied if not explicitly stated. And Cameron didn't answer where he was going to get his £12bn of welfare savings from either, and as the graphic in this piece shows, if pensioner benefits are protected, it's going to be really difficult to do without hammering the disabled, their carers and/or the working poor. (And while inflation is at zero, freezing benefits makes NO savings at all)Mendonca In Asdas said:I know politicians don't like to answer the question, but when EM was asked the simple question, 'the budget deficit is currently 75 billion a year, if Labour gained power what would it be in 5 years time ' he didn't give a figure?
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Watched pieces of this today, Miliband is in a strong position because expectations of him are so low he can go out there and have a real crack.
As PM Cameron has to be more cautious and also has to defend his record which is never easy for an incumbent and which can easily trip you up.
Would love to see Paxman have an hour with Farage.5 -
Clegg was judged to be the winner in the debates last time...0
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IA said:
Clegg for PM?carly burn said:Milliband trying so desperately to emulate his hero Blair. It's a No from me.
The damage that f****r done will never be reversed!
Cameron can go whistle n'all.
Devil and the deep blue sea.
Who?
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Thanks for that, eds answer didn't come across very well, I thought it was a fundamental question to be taken seriously as we are spending way too much each year on expenditure as are other countries.aliwibble said:
Erm, he said in 5 years time he was aiming to have eliminated it. So the zero figure was implied if not explicitly stated. And Cameron didn't answer where he was going to get his £12bn of welfare savings from either, and as the graphic in this piece shows, if pensioner benefits are protected, it's going to be really difficult to do without hammering the disabled, their carers and/or the working poor. (And while inflation is at zero, freezing benefits makes NO savings at all)Mendonca In Asdas said:I know politicians don't like to answer the question, but when EM was asked the simple question, 'the budget deficit is currently 75 billion a year, if Labour gained power what would it be in 5 years time ' he didn't give a figure?
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Will Cameron?A-R-T-H-U-R said:Will Milliband ever stop slagging off the last Labour administration?
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Whatever your political views, you have to be gullable to see that a lot of Milliband's image has been created by the press. He is the one with the far more intelligent brother who should have got the job. This is done to undermine him, as he wouldn't have beaten his brother if he wasn't a very accomplished politician. Not this year, but the year before, Milliband actually demonstrated some of the strongest leadership from an opposition leader ever. In the course of a few weeks, he set the agenda for all the party conferences, and showed the courage to stop a military intervention in Syria. Something he knew would irritate America, so was brave thing to do. Hague wanted us to arm what was to become IS. Milliband got absolutely no credit for these remarkable weeks, simply because it didn't fit with the image the press want us to beleive.
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I'm voting for a LibDem candidate locally on more of a personal basis, but I would go for EM based on watching the whole show last night. He has the passion. I agree with the poster that said that DC looks shot, I think he's tired of trotting out the same lines and his comment about not going for a third term betrayed where his heart really is (ie NOT in it). The trackers I've just seen on the BBC also had EM ahead on the night.0
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When Paxman said EB was seen as a geek, it was very telling. EB said 'who does'. I thought it was disapointing paxman didn't steer clear of this personality nonsense. If Milliband is so hopless, why doesnt Cameron want to debate head to head with him?
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Every 5 years in our elective dictatorship we get to choose between Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee.3
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Cosying up to the unions is being an accomplished politician? Ah right...MuttleyCAFC said:Whatever your political views, you have to be gullable to see that a lot of Milliband's image has been created by the press. He is the one with the far more intelligent brother who should have got the job. This is done to undermine him, as he wouldn't have beaten his brother if he wasn't a very accomplished politician.
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'Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.'PeanutsMolloy said:Every 5 years in our elective dictatorship we get to choose between Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee.
Winston S. Churchill
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indeed......but which form of democracy Henry?Henry Irving said:
'Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.'PeanutsMolloy said:Every 5 years in our elective dictatorship we get to choose between Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee.
Winston S. Churchill0 -
Same one that elected Churchill (in 1951) and had him heading up a coalition (in 1940)PeanutsMolloy said:
indeed......but which form of democracy Henry?Henry Irving said:
'Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.'PeanutsMolloy said:Every 5 years in our elective dictatorship we get to choose between Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee.
Winston S. Churchill1 -
Two salesmen trying to sell their wares that most people are fed up with and want something new .. trouble is the new stuff is really just the same as the old stuff .. smooth, avoiding the issue Dave came across marginally better than Milipede, the 6th form clever boy, so eager to please that he'll tell us anything .. hell yes !!2
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Both of these leaders were dreadful, came across very poorly and clueless, what a state we are in that the parties these two guys head up will be the top two clear seat winning parties. Depressing.2
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It is equally trite to mention Labour and the trade unions and Tory and the big businesses. Both relationships almost go without saying, one force trying to create money, the other force attempting to ensure the wealth creators are not exploited. Indeed both of the major parties have a need for both forces to exist.
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Shame the Syria thing is an absolute farce. Miliband gave the PM his word that we would order his party to vote for action, then when he caught wind of how many Tory MPs were going to rebel he used it as an opportunity to embarrass Cameron personally and he changed his mind. Whether or not your opinion on action in Syria, basing your party's foreign policy around the best way to embarrass a party leader is not what I want in a prospective PM.MuttleyCAFC said:Whatever your political views, you have to be gullable to see that a lot of Milliband's image has been created by the press. He is the one with the far more intelligent brother who should have got the job. This is done to undermine him, as he wouldn't have beaten his brother if he wasn't a very accomplished politician. Not this year, but the year before, Milliband actually demonstrated some of the strongest leadership from an opposition leader ever. In the course of a few weeks, he set the agenda for all the party conferences, and showed the courage to stop a military intervention in Syria. Something he knew would irritate America, so was brave thing to do. Hague wanted us to arm what was to become IS. Milliband got absolutely no credit for these remarkable weeks, simply because it didn't fit with the image the press want us to beleive.
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Ironically it was indeed from that moment, the re-election of the (now collectivist-minded) Conservatives in 1951 that (with the all too brief interlude of the 1980s) the UK has experienced this elective dictatorship - administered by 2 main parties whose agenda differs remarkably little and who, with impunity because of the electoral system, frequently fly in the face of public opinion.Henry Irving said:
Same one that elected Churchill (in 1951) and had him heading up a coalition (in 1940)PeanutsMolloy said:
indeed......but which form of democracy Henry?Henry Irving said:
'Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.'PeanutsMolloy said:Every 5 years in our elective dictatorship we get to choose between Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee.
Winston S. Churchill1 -
Interesting point. Can you direct me to the evidence for this?Fiiish said:
Shame the Syria thing is an absolute farce. Miliband gave the PM his word that we would order his party to vote for action, then when he caught wind of how many Tory MPs were going to rebel he used it as an opportunity to embarrass Cameron personally and he changed his mind. Whether or not your opinion on action in Syria, basing your party's foreign policy around the best way to embarrass a party leader is not what I want in a prospective PM.MuttleyCAFC said:Whatever your political views, you have to be gullable to see that a lot of Milliband's image has been created by the press. He is the one with the far more intelligent brother who should have got the job. This is done to undermine him, as he wouldn't have beaten his brother if he wasn't a very accomplished politician. Not this year, but the year before, Milliband actually demonstrated some of the strongest leadership from an opposition leader ever. In the course of a few weeks, he set the agenda for all the party conferences, and showed the courage to stop a military intervention in Syria. Something he knew would irritate America, so was brave thing to do. Hague wanted us to arm what was to become IS. Milliband got absolutely no credit for these remarkable weeks, simply because it didn't fit with the image the press want us to beleive.
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Sadly Muttley, the power of the press has become all consuming and politicians have adapted to try and fit in / take advantage of that power. As a result, we have bred a generation of politicians who speak in sound bites and lack any real substance. Or, if they do have any, it tends to be drowned out by whatever it is that the Sun/Mirror/Mail want to go with.MuttleyCAFC said:Whatever your political views, you have to be gullable to see that a lot of Milliband's image has been created by the press. He is the one with the far more intelligent brother who should have got the job. This is done to undermine him, as he wouldn't have beaten his brother if he wasn't a very accomplished politician. Not this year, but the year before, Milliband actually demonstrated some of the strongest leadership from an opposition leader ever. In the course of a few weeks, he set the agenda for all the party conferences, and showed the courage to stop a military intervention in Syria. Something he knew would irritate America, so was brave thing to do. Hague wanted us to arm what was to become IS. Milliband got absolutely no credit for these remarkable weeks, simply because it didn't fit with the image the press want us to beleive.
On the generational point too, I hope I am doing them an injustice, but it feels like Generation Y (19-33 year olds) are disengaged to a greater extent than ever before. Sound bites may work for a group that live on Facebook/Twitter etc., but I dread to think how we will move on when the politicos are snap chatting to win votes!0 -
DC answered a lot of questions by bringing up his son Ivan and how the NHS did great for him.
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Churchill was not 'democratically elected' in 1940, he took over leadership of a National Government which had been in power from 1935. No general election was held between 1935 and 1945 when the Labour Government was elected. Churchill was not a 'democratic choice' until 1951, although of course he was idolised as a quasi dictator during the second world warHenry Irving said:
Same one that elected Churchill (in 1951) and had him heading up a coalition (in 1940)PeanutsMolloy said:
indeed......but which form of democracy Henry?Henry Irving said:
'Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.'PeanutsMolloy said:Every 5 years in our elective dictatorship we get to choose between Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee.
Winston S. Churchill2 -
One nation tories really came early than that and in a large part because of the experience the tory officer class in the trenches in WWI. Both Eden and MacMillan served on the western front.PeanutsMolloy said:
Ironically it was indeed from that moment, the re-election of the (now collectivist-minded) Conservatives in 1951 that (with the all too brief interlude of the 1980s) the UK has experienced this elective dictatorship - administered by 2 main parties whose agenda differs remarkably little and who, with impunity because of the electoral system, frequently fly in the face of public opinion.Henry Irving said:
Same one that elected Churchill (in 1951) and had him heading up a coalition (in 1940)PeanutsMolloy said:
indeed......but which form of democracy Henry?Henry Irving said:
'Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.'PeanutsMolloy said:Every 5 years in our elective dictatorship we get to choose between Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee.
Winston S. Churchill
While there is little between the two parties now that has only been the case since Blair. While there was common ground post WWII there were still significant differences.0 -
...but is it acceptable for a chancellor to refuse to rule out VAT rises 5 times in front of a select committee only for the PM to do just that 24 hours later, having the effect of "embarrassing a party leader"?Fiiish said:
..basing your party's foreign policy around the best way to embarrass a party leader is not what I want in a prospective PM.MuttleyCAFC said:Whatever your political views, you have to be gullable to see that a lot of Milliband's image has been created by the press. He is the one with the far more intelligent brother who should have got the job. This is done to undermine him, as he wouldn't have beaten his brother if he wasn't a very accomplished politician. Not this year, but the year before, Milliband actually demonstrated some of the strongest leadership from an opposition leader ever. In the course of a few weeks, he set the agenda for all the party conferences, and showed the courage to stop a military intervention in Syria. Something he knew would irritate America, so was brave thing to do. Hague wanted us to arm what was to become IS. Milliband got absolutely no credit for these remarkable weeks, simply because it didn't fit with the image the press want us to beleive.
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anyone who believes in pre-election 'promises' or election manifestos must still believe in Santa Claus and fairies at the bottom of the garden .. and we call it 'democracy' .. the Greeks who developed the principle would have taken all lying politicians and subjected them to a horrible death .. pity that we can't do the same .. metaphorically speaking of courseBournemouth Addick said:
...but is it acceptable for a chancellor to rule out VAT rises 5 times in front of a select committee only for the PM to do just that 24 hours later, having the efect of "embarrassing a party leader"?Fiiish said:
Shame the Syria thing is an absolute farce. Miliband gave the PM his word that we would order his party to vote for action, then when he caught wind of how many Tory MPs were going to rebel he used it as an opportunity to embarrass Cameron personally and he changed his mind. Whether or not your opinion on action in Syria, basing your party's foreign policy around the best way to embarrass a party leader is not what I want in a prospective PM.MuttleyCAFC said:Whatever your political views, you have to be gullable to see that a lot of Milliband's image has been created by the press. He is the one with the far more intelligent brother who should have got the job. This is done to undermine him, as he wouldn't have beaten his brother if he wasn't a very accomplished politician. Not this year, but the year before, Milliband actually demonstrated some of the strongest leadership from an opposition leader ever. In the course of a few weeks, he set the agenda for all the party conferences, and showed the courage to stop a military intervention in Syria. Something he knew would irritate America, so was brave thing to do. Hague wanted us to arm what was to become IS. Milliband got absolutely no credit for these remarkable weeks, simply because it didn't fit with the image the press want us to beleive.
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"Don't you think, in all honesty, your brother would have done a better job than you?"
"Well, on reflection, yes".
http://goo.gl/0DWjt5
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