Drugs

cafcdave123

It was something on "The Illuminati" thread that got me thinking about this (although the existence of the Illuminati isn't the discussion for here).

I have a couple of health issues that require me to constantly take medication and I am "lucky" enough (the condition is so bad for my age) that I am able to have access to one of these.

Does anyone have any health issues that would be better treated with drugs that they don't have access to/ can't afford?

do you think there is more that could/should be done to make these more available?

superchrissypowell

It is an interesting debate. Some of the modern drugs, especially monoclonal antibodies, are very expensive to research and develop.

In an ideal world everyone would get the drugs they need, but the money isnt there at the moment. Tough choices have to be made by the NHS and NICE, and not everyone will be happy.

I think perhaps there should be an option to part pay in order to get access. Lets say a course of drugs is 10K...the nhs say no as they do not feel you are quite in need of it. There should be an option whereby the user can contribute (say 10% or maybe more) in order to get the treatment

PL54

Some of the cancer trials out there, which seem to be having some dramatic results, cost c£100k per head to run.

superchrissypowell

PL54 said:

Some of the cancer trials out there, which seem to be having some dramatic results, cost c£100k per head to run.

Exactly, and many of these drugs often only extend life by a couple of months. Is the cost worth it? Im glad I am not making those decisions.

Carter

superchrissypowell said:

PL54 said:

Some of the cancer trials out there, which seem to be having some dramatic results, cost c£100k per head to run.

Exactly, and many of these drugs often only extend life by a couple of months. Is the cost worth it? Im glad I am not making those decisions.

Me too

Although that cost pales into insignificance when held up against the cost of flying bureaucrats out to Brazil or somewhere like that for a fact finding expedition (jolly)

If a new a drug that could give me or a loved one longer if we/I wanted it was refused on cost im not sure there are words that could convey how mental I would go.

The Sun get a lot if justified stick but one thing they do well is use the freedom of information act to find out how much poverty pleading councils spunk on nonsense. When you see these numbers all noise about the cost of drugs to the NHS become irrelevant

superchrissypowell

Yeah i see your point. However considering the vast sums and the number of people that use the NHS, the total amount spent on drugs and healthcare is crazy.

It is estimated that on cardiovascular diseases alone the NHS spends £30billion a year. Considering that 90% of cases of cardiovascular diseases are modifiable (bad diet, smoking, alcohol, lack of exercise) - us as users and contributers need to look at our lifestyles. Because ultimately our poor lifetsyle choices will kill the NHS.
Many cancers are also lifestyle-dependent.

Tough choices have to be made unfortunately

shine166

superchrissypowell said:

Yeah i see your point. However considering the vast sums and the number of people that use the NHS, the total amount spent on drugs and healthcare is crazy.

It is estimated that on cardiovascular diseases alone the NHS spends £30billion a year. Considering that 90% of cases of cardiovascular diseases are modifiable (bad diet, smoking, alcohol, lack of exercise) - us as users and contributers need to look at our lifestyles. Because ultimately our poor lifetsyle choices will kill the NHS.
Many cancers are also lifestyle-dependent.

Tough choices have to be made unfortunately

They should just ban smoking all together, depends how much is made from taxing it though I guess.

nth_london_addick

1 extra day with someone who has that ... of a disease is worth a million pound to those who love them anything that gives an extension to the life of the person with it should be the only deciding factor not money

superchrissypowell

nth london addick said:

1 extra day with someone who has that cunt of a disease is worth a million pound to those who love them anything that gives an extension to the life of the person with it should be the only deciding factor not money

I agree with the sentiment, but quite clearly this is not financially viable.

If you spend 100k on a treatment to prolong somones life by 6 weeks, that is 100k that cannot be spent on other medications that may cure a disease or prolong 100 peoples lives by 6 weeks (for example)

Its horrible, but it is just the way it is.

These life extending drugs costs over a billion pounds to research, develop and test, they will never be cheap

superchrissypowell

shine166 said:

superchrissypowell said:

Yeah i see your point. However considering the vast sums and the number of people that use the NHS, the total amount spent on drugs and healthcare is crazy.

It is estimated that on cardiovascular diseases alone the NHS spends £30billion a year. Considering that 90% of cases of cardiovascular diseases are modifiable (bad diet, smoking, alcohol, lack of exercise) - us as users and contributers need to look at our lifestyles. Because ultimately our poor lifetsyle choices will kill the NHS.
Many cancers are also lifestyle-dependent.

Tough choices have to be made unfortunately

They should just ban smoking all together, depends how much is made from taxing it though I guess.

But then you are into the civil liberties arguement. I have had many a discussion with colleagues who think we should charge patients who are being treated for smoking-related disorders. The problem then is "you had a car accident because you were driving a car. That is your choice. You should pay for your treatment" etc etc etc

nth_london_addick

We spend a lot more in the NHS on people not entitled to any treatment to not give someone who is entitled to it as a citizen and contributer to the NHS, if we stop that money leaving we may not need to worry about the decision that needs to be made on postcode normally

bobmunro

nth london addick said:

1 extra day with someone who has that cunt of a disease is worth a million pound to those who love them anything that gives an extension to the life of the person with it should be the only deciding factor not money

From a very personal perspective I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments.

However, whether or not you take the view that too much or not enough money is spent on the NHS, the pot is finite.

Edit: SCP beat me to it.

superchrissypowell

nth london addick said:

We spend a lot more in the NHS on people not entitled to any treatment to not give someone who is entitled to it as a citizen and contributer to the NHS, if we stop that money leaving we may not need to worry about the decision that needs to be made on postcode normally

The whole point of the NHS is that EVERYONE is entitled to it (British citezens anyway). No matter of background, wealth etc everyone is treated equally, that is what makes it so great.

The lifetsyles of the british public will eventually kill the NHS. We need to be more responsible for our own health and protect the NHS for the community

ValleyGary

Can someone put 'non-recreational' in the thread title. Very misleading!!!

Addicted

Yup, feel like I've been mis-sold

seth plum

So if life extending drugs are not possible I don't understand why the authorities are so against dignified death with a good dose of high quality morphine, a top tipple of your choice, and a spliff the size of a baby's forearm to see you on your way.
A miserable painful end, parked in the dark corner of a grey hospital ward, all alone, is no way to finish things.

superchrissypowell

seth plum said:

So if life extending drugs are not possible I don't understand why the authorities are so against dignified death with a good dose of high quality morphine, a top tipple of your choice, and a spliff the size of a baby's forearm to see you on your way.
A miserable painful end, parked in the dark corner of a grey hospital ward, all alone, is no way to finish things.

I also agree with this. Animals wouldnt be allowed to suffer the same way humans do in this country

cafcdave123

seth plum said:

So if life extending drugs are not possible I don't understand why the authorities are so against dignified death with a good dose of high quality morphine, a top tipple of your choice, and a spliff the size of a baby's forearm to see you on your way.
A miserable painful end, parked in the dark corner of a grey hospital ward, all alone, is no way to finish things.

If that was made legal in the UK, would you have that as an extension of the NHS or a private company running it and paying tax?

seth plum

Extension of the NHS

cafcdave123

seth plum said:

Extension of the NHS

See, many people would argue that the money could be used saving life/making people's lives easier to live.

This is what interests me about the subject, i really dont have a definitive opinion on 90% of it....

seth plum

End of life care is part of it all isn't it? However well medicine advances we all have to go sometime and we ought now to be able to make slipping away comfortable and peaceful.

Bryan_Kynsie

seth plum said:

So if life extending drugs are not possible I don't understand why the authorities are so against dignified death with a good dose of high quality morphine, a top tipple of your choice, and a spliff the size of a baby's forearm to see you on your way.
A miserable painful end, parked in the dark corner of a grey hospital ward, all alone, is no way to finish things.

Well said, Seth. when the alternative is inevitable worseness, ending with pain and humiliation all round, after spending yet more on drugs to simply keep you alive with no prospect of cure or improvement then why not? And it does not mean assisted suicide if the patient is well enough to pour the morphine/tipple cocktail and light the spliff for him/herself!