Football Finance: Championship Club-by-Club

Imnot Athletic

Not seen this linked anywhere else, sink if it has been.

Summary financial figures for us and the rest of the championship, some eye watering wages figures in some cases. As many suspected we were nowhere near top 10 on wages and probably aren't again this year.

Here is the link

stonemuse

Derby look pretty well run

SheedyCAFC

Derby are debt free wow, are Charlton operating at a loss?

Brendan_O_Connell

KPMG resigned as auditors of Blackburn Rovers last month due to significant concerns on how the club is run.

Henry Irving

SheedyCAFC said:

Derby are debt free wow, are Charlton operating at a loss?

£5.7m down from £6m the previous year.

Other than Rotherham and the promoted clubs one of smaller turnovers and wage bills in the division (this was last season).

No indication that income will have risen from internally generated income although there are extra payments from Sky

Debt "not stated" but loans £44.1m. Assume that other than the £7 to old directors the £34.1m is a loan from Roland. The mortgage on the North Stand would be paid off now but if not would have been "only" £1m

A lot of clubs with far bigger debt but some with a lot less.

Either the owner (current or future) writes off the debt or we need to get promoted to get back on an even keel.

Athletico Charlton

^

Figures are effectively for the season before last hence why Burnley t/o is so low and Cardiff so high

The Red Robin

Will we get an idea of the Gomez fee in the next set of accounts or the one after? Where's Airman when you need him?

newyorkaddick

I don't think the debt figures of the clubs really mean much as few of the creditors have any reasonable expectation of being paid back.

The debts will either be taken on by new owners (as was the case with Charlton), converted to equity or defaulted upon in administration.

The key issue is how much capacity each club and its owners have to finance the inevitable ongoing losses that will be generated in the Championship.

Bedsaddick

Reading have a 38 Mil turnover ! How do they manage that?

newyorkaddick

Bedsaddick said:

Reading have a 38 Mil turnover ! How do they manage that?

Parachute payments.

creepyaddick

So why have some clubs got transfer embargos when others look (to my uneducated eye) to be so much worse off but haven't?

bobmunro

Bedsaddick said:

Reading have a 38 Mil turnover ! How do they manage that?

Hotel attached to the Madejski?

Imnot Athletic

We are 18th in the turnover table and 19th in terms of wages spent. Most people would regard the proportion of turnover spent on wages as an important "solvency" measure, though this does neglect clubs that may have higher infrastructure or debt servicing costs. We come out 12th on this basis, with 9 clubs spending more on wages than they earn

Turnover/Wages
1 Hull City 44%
2 Rotherham United 44%
3 Wolverhampton Wanderers 55%
4 Cardiff City 58%
5 Fulham 66%
6 Derby County 72%
7 Brighton & Hove Albion 75%
8 Reading 79%
9 Leeds United 79%
10 Milton Keynes Dons 80%
11 Sheffield Wednesday 80%
12 Charlton Athletic 82%
13 Birmingham City 90%
14 Bolton Wanderers 90%
15 Preston North End 93%
16 Ipswich Town 107%
17 Huddersfield Town 109%
18 Middlesbrough 113%
19 Blackburn Rovers 113%
20 Burnley 121%
21 Nottingham Forest 145%
22 Bristol City 162%
23 Queens Park Rangers 172%
24 Brentford 270%

Imnot Athletic

Figures are for the 2013/14 season so its not really fair to compare those relegated from the prem that year, or those promoted from L1

shirty5

bobmunro said:

Bedsaddick said:

Reading have a 38 Mil turnover ! How do they manage that?

Hotel attached to the Madejski?

Must be over a fiver a pint in that hotel bar then!

bobmunro

shirty5 said:

bobmunro said:

Bedsaddick said:

Reading have a 38 Mil turnover ! How do they manage that?

Hotel attached to the Madejski?

Must be over a fiver a pint in that hotel bar then!

Trust me - it is!!

Imnot Athletic

As the figures are based on 2013/14, I've looked at the final table for that season and comparing points gained with wages spent:

Position, Team and points gained per £1m spent on wages

1 Leicester City
2 Burnley 4.95
3 Derby County 5.86
4 Queens Park Rangers 1.20
5 Wigan Athletic
6 Brighton & Hove Albion 4.00
7 Reading 2.36
8 Blackburn Rovers 2.03
9 Ipswich Town 4.89
10 AFC Bournemouth
11 Nottingham Forest 2.71
12 Middlesbrough 4.44
13 Watford
14 Bolton Wanderers 2.14
15 Leeds United 2.84
16 Sheffield Wednesday 4.77
17 Huddersfield Town 4.49
18 Charlton Athletic 4.90
19 Millwall
20 Blackpool
21 Birmingham City 2.44
22 Doncaster Rovers (R)
23 Barnsley (R)
24 Yeovil Town (R)


I've not got turnover or wages figures for Leicester, Wigan, Watford, Millwall, Blackpool, Doncaster, Barnsley and Yeovil, but of those that are left we are 3rds behind Derby and Burnley in terms of value of points returned for the wages spent.

Incredibly QPR spent £66m on gaining their 80 points in that season. They truly would have been f**ked if they hadn't gone up that year.

bobmunro

Imnot Athletic said:

Incredibly QPR spent £66m on gaining their 80 points in that season. They truly would have been f**ked if they hadn't gone up that year.

It's ok - I think they've managed to do that now.

Airman Brown

The Red Robin said:

Will we get an idea of the Gomez fee in the next set of accounts or the one after? Where's Airman when you need him?

Next set. It fell into 14/15, but even if it hadn't I assume it would be declared in some form as a post-accounting date event.

Valley27000

What does it all mean for our club?.

Chris_from_Sidcup

How the hell can Brentford sustain a 270% wages to turnover ratio?

Admittedly selling a striker for 9m helps but even so, that's a ridiculous figure to spend on wages.

ShootersHillGuru

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

How the hell can Brentford sustain a 270% wages to turnover ratio?

Admittedly selling a striker for 9m helps but even so, that's a ridiculous figure to spend on wages.

They can't. It's the madness of football created in no small way by the sick amount of money slushing around just out of reach in the premier league. If Brentford don't strike gold in a year or two at most then the bubble bursts and some poor printer or pie man loses his shirt. Another mug picks up the turd and the cycle starts again. It's a very good reason to admire RD for trying something different.

Airman Brown

ShootersHillGuru said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

How the hell can Brentford sustain a 270% wages to turnover ratio?

Admittedly selling a striker for 9m helps but even so, that's a ridiculous figure to spend on wages.

They can't. It's the madness of football created in no small way by the sick amount of money slushing around just out of reach in the premier league. If Brentford don't strike gold in a year or two at most then the bubble bursts and some poor printer or pie man loses his shirt. Another mug picks up the turd and the cycle starts again. It's a very good reason to admire RD for trying something different.

I'm not clear what it is that is different, though, now that he has disposed of Standard Liege, except if it's a focus on buying foreign players over English ones? Crystal Palace, whatever we might think of them, didn't get promotion by spending big, AFAIK. We're not living within our means and the club can't breakeven in this division. If we can get promotion while spending less than other clubs then that's obviously good news, but it's not a different model. It would just mean we've been better at utilising the existing one, wouldn't it?

ShootersHillGuru

Airman Brown said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

How the hell can Brentford sustain a 270% wages to turnover ratio?

Admittedly selling a striker for 9m helps but even so, that's a ridiculous figure to spend on wages.

They can't. It's the madness of football created in no small way by the sick amount of money slushing around just out of reach in the premier league. If Brentford don't strike gold in a year or two at most then the bubble bursts and some poor printer or pie man loses his shirt. Another mug picks up the turd and the cycle starts again. It's a very good reason to admire RD for trying something different.

I'm not clear what it is that is different, though, now that he has disposed of Standard Liege, except if it's a focus on buying foreign players over English ones? Crystal Palace, whatever we might think of them, didn't get promotion by spending big, AFAIK. We're not living within our means and the club can't breakeven in this division. If we can get promotion while spending less than other clubs then that's obviously good news, but it's not a different model. It would just mean we've been better at utilising the existing one, wouldn't it?

I suppose that's a decent way of looking at it and I think you are right that buying foreign rather than British is mostly what I mean. I think its pretty clear that to buy players from this country of the same quality to what we have picked up from abroad this summer would have been prohibitive.

I do think that in doing so once you get past the inevitable mistakes in players that can't cut it in English football the rewards for buying "quality" from overseas with a decent prospect of profit is a model that no other Championship club is following with such rigour. It's early of course but I'm already confident that 12 months from now the likes of Kashi, Bauer and Ba will be worth considerably more than we have paid. Sarr and Bergdich might be added to that list.

I also think the plans for the academy are a very good pointer that the owner thinks that grow your own is a good idea. You (Airman) will know more than me but are there any or at least many clubs of our standing going to have an academy set up near the standard we are aiming for ? If it's a no then that means this is also a departure from the norm.

LuckyReds

Brendan_O_Connell said:

KPMG resigned as auditors of Blackburn Rovers last month due to significant concerns on how the club is run.

Just out of interest, as auditors would they have some form of legal liability should Blackburn Rovers hit financial issues/administration?

I would've thought that as long as they were correct and honest in their audits, i.e 'the situation is f*cked and money is being lost at an absurd and unsustainable rate.', then they would be pretty safe?

Airman Brown

ShootersHillGuru said:

Airman Brown said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

How the hell can Brentford sustain a 270% wages to turnover ratio?

Admittedly selling a striker for 9m helps but even so, that's a ridiculous figure to spend on wages.

They can't. It's the madness of football created in no small way by the sick amount of money slushing around just out of reach in the premier league. If Brentford don't strike gold in a year or two at most then the bubble bursts and some poor printer or pie man loses his shirt. Another mug picks up the turd and the cycle starts again. It's a very good reason to admire RD for trying something different.

I'm not clear what it is that is different, though, now that he has disposed of Standard Liege, except if it's a focus on buying foreign players over English ones? Crystal Palace, whatever we might think of them, didn't get promotion by spending big, AFAIK. We're not living within our means and the club can't breakeven in this division. If we can get promotion while spending less than other clubs then that's obviously good news, but it's not a different model. It would just mean we've been better at utilising the existing one, wouldn't it?

I suppose that's a decent way of looking at it and I think you are right that buying foreign rather than British is mostly what I mean. I think its pretty clear that to buy players from this country of the same quality to what we have picked up from abroad this summer would have been prohibitive.

I do think that in doing so once you get past the inevitable mistakes in players that can't cut it in English football the rewards for buying "quality" from overseas with a decent prospect of profit is a model that no other Championship club is following with such rigour. It's early of course but I'm already confident that 12 months from now the likes of Kashi, Bauer and Ba will be worth considerably more than we have paid. Sarr and Bergdich might be added to that list.

I also think the plans for the academy are a very good pointer that the owner thinks that grow your own is a good idea. You (Airman) will know more than me but are there any or at least many clubs of our standing going to have an academy set up near the standard we are aiming for ? If it's a no then that means this is also a departure from the norm.

I agree re the quality of the most recent signings. We'll have to see whether this is matched by the necessary quantity as I would think the club will need to spend more money to get promoted in the short term. But we could get lucky.

As far as the academy is concerned, Blackburn, Brighton, Derby, Middlesbrough, Fulham, Reading and Wolves all have Category One academies among current Championship clubs. I can't benchmark the standard of their facilities beyond that, but status should be a reasonable proxy.

Interestingly, Bolton had Category One status but announced during the summer they were voluntarily downgrading to Category Two in order to reduce their costs.

Athletico Charlton

Airman Brown said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

How the hell can Brentford sustain a 270% wages to turnover ratio?

Admittedly selling a striker for 9m helps but even so, that's a ridiculous figure to spend on wages.

They can't. It's the madness of football created in no small way by the sick amount of money slushing around just out of reach in the premier league. If Brentford don't strike gold in a year or two at most then the bubble bursts and some poor printer or pie man loses his shirt. Another mug picks up the turd and the cycle starts again. It's a very good reason to admire RD for trying something different.

I'm not clear what it is that is different, though, now that he has disposed of Standard Liege, except if it's a focus on buying foreign players over English ones? Crystal Palace, whatever we might think of them, didn't get promotion by spending big, AFAIK. We're not living within our means and the club can't breakeven in this division. If we can get promotion while spending less than other clubs then that's obviously good news, but it's not a different model. It would just mean we've been better at utilising the existing one, wouldn't it?

I have always felt they got exceptionally lucky, right place, right time. That year Bolton, Blackburn and Wolves all came down, loaded to the eye balls in debt and over burgeoned with ageing, poor, mercenary players. Since then the PL has got its house in order with massive rises in TV money meaning clubs are actually turning a profit and I believe, in many cases debt free. With massively enhanced parachute payments and little to no debt it will be increasingly difficult for clubs like ours (and Palace as was) to compete for those top 6 places without massively over spending. This is accentuated further by the fact that top clubs are hoovering up all young talent under EPPP rules which means there is less chance of building over a few years a pool of quality kids. I do wonder if RD has realised this belatedly and hence the additional splurge this summer?

ShootersHillGuru

Airman Brown said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Airman Brown said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

How the hell can Brentford sustain a 270% wages to turnover ratio?

Admittedly selling a striker for 9m helps but even so, that's a ridiculous figure to spend on wages.

They can't. It's the madness of football created in no small way by the sick amount of money slushing around just out of reach in the premier league. If Brentford don't strike gold in a year or two at most then the bubble bursts and some poor printer or pie man loses his shirt. Another mug picks up the turd and the cycle starts again. It's a very good reason to admire RD for trying something different.

I'm not clear what it is that is different, though, now that he has disposed of Standard Liege, except if it's a focus on buying foreign players over English ones? Crystal Palace, whatever we might think of them, didn't get promotion by spending big, AFAIK. We're not living within our means and the club can't breakeven in this division. If we can get promotion while spending less than other clubs then that's obviously good news, but it's not a different model. It would just mean we've been better at utilising the existing one, wouldn't it?

I suppose that's a decent way of looking at it and I think you are right that buying foreign rather than British is mostly what I mean. I think its pretty clear that to buy players from this country of the same quality to what we have picked up from abroad this summer would have been prohibitive.

I do think that in doing so once you get past the inevitable mistakes in players that can't cut it in English football the rewards for buying "quality" from overseas with a decent prospect of profit is a model that no other Championship club is following with such rigour. It's early of course but I'm already confident that 12 months from now the likes of Kashi, Bauer and Ba will be worth considerably more than we have paid. Sarr and Bergdich might be added to that list.

I also think the plans for the academy are a very good pointer that the owner thinks that grow your own is a good idea. You (Airman) will know more than me but are there any or at least many clubs of our standing going to have an academy set up near the standard we are aiming for ? If it's a no then that means this is also a departure from the norm.

I agree re the quality of the most recent signings. We'll have to see whether this is matched by the necessary quantity as I would think the club will need to spend more money to get promoted in the short term. But we could get lucky.

As far as the academy is concerned, Bolton, Blackburn, Brighton, Derby, Middlesbrough, Fulham, Reading and Wolves all have Category One academies among current Championship clubs. I can't benchmark the standard of their facilities beyond that, but status should be a reasonable proxy.

Thank you for the reply and information. I wonder how the academy status of Bolton, Blackburn and Middlesbrough will hold up given the reported parlous state of their general finances ? I do see the other clubs mentioned as being forward thinking though.

Airman Brown

ShootersHillGuru said:

Airman Brown said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Airman Brown said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

How the hell can Brentford sustain a 270% wages to turnover ratio?

Admittedly selling a striker for 9m helps but even so, that's a ridiculous figure to spend on wages.

They can't. It's the madness of football created in no small way by the sick amount of money slushing around just out of reach in the premier league. If Brentford don't strike gold in a year or two at most then the bubble bursts and some poor printer or pie man loses his shirt. Another mug picks up the turd and the cycle starts again. It's a very good reason to admire RD for trying something different.

I'm not clear what it is that is different, though, now that he has disposed of Standard Liege, except if it's a focus on buying foreign players over English ones? Crystal Palace, whatever we might think of them, didn't get promotion by spending big, AFAIK. We're not living within our means and the club can't breakeven in this division. If we can get promotion while spending less than other clubs then that's obviously good news, but it's not a different model. It would just mean we've been better at utilising the existing one, wouldn't it?

I suppose that's a decent way of looking at it and I think you are right that buying foreign rather than British is mostly what I mean. I think its pretty clear that to buy players from this country of the same quality to what we have picked up from abroad this summer would have been prohibitive.

I do think that in doing so once you get past the inevitable mistakes in players that can't cut it in English football the rewards for buying "quality" from overseas with a decent prospect of profit is a model that no other Championship club is following with such rigour. It's early of course but I'm already confident that 12 months from now the likes of Kashi, Bauer and Ba will be worth considerably more than we have paid. Sarr and Bergdich might be added to that list.

I also think the plans for the academy are a very good pointer that the owner thinks that grow your own is a good idea. You (Airman) will know more than me but are there any or at least many clubs of our standing going to have an academy set up near the standard we are aiming for ? If it's a no then that means this is also a departure from the norm.

I agree re the quality of the most recent signings. We'll have to see whether this is matched by the necessary quantity as I would think the club will need to spend more money to get promoted in the short term. But we could get lucky.

As far as the academy is concerned, Bolton, Blackburn, Brighton, Derby, Middlesbrough, Fulham, Reading and Wolves all have Category One academies among current Championship clubs. I can't benchmark the standard of their facilities beyond that, but status should be a reasonable proxy.

Thank you for the reply and information. I wonder how the academy status of Bolton, Blackburn and Middlesbrough will hold up given the reported parlous state of their general finances ? I do see the other clubs mentioned as being forward thinking though.

Indeed - see edit re Bolton above. However, remember that half the funding is received in grants as a consequence of the status.

PaddyP17

LuckyReds said:

Brendan_O_Connell said:

KPMG resigned as auditors of Blackburn Rovers last month due to significant concerns on how the club is run.

Just out of interest, as auditors would they have some form of legal liability should Blackburn Rovers hit financial issues/administration?

I would've thought that as long as they were correct and honest in their audits, i.e 'the situation is f*cked and money is being lost at an absurd and unsustainable rate.', then they would be pretty safe?

I presume it's because they have to sign off on the accounts every year, and if they're uncomfortable with doing that then they don't have to have that responsibility because I presume they don't want to refuse to sign off a massive football club and have shit hit the fan. Or something.

I could be very wrong but basically right in some ways I dunno I'm just speaking words