Blitz Cities: London

Tom_Hovi

Lifers might be interested in a new short series starting on BBC1 on Monday September 7th at the rather early time of 9:15 am (one to record). There will be one programme daily during that week dealing with the Blitz on London, Liverpool, Norwich, Cardiff and Birmingham. Yours truly had a small hand behind the scenes in the London progamme in tracking down a chap who still has an Anderson Shelter in his garden and also putting them in touch with a lady (Joan Longley) who was a little girl in Charlton at the time who talks about life in shelters during the Blitz. Sadly, Joan's Dad was killed later in the war by the V-1 that destroyed Charlton Station but this fact didn't make it to the final cut of the programme.

Greenie

Thanks for this TH, will record it. I have massive interest in WW2 especially the home front.
My father in Laws 13 year old brother was killed in the V2 attack on Woolworths in New Cross, 1944.

Welly

Was born in Spitafields in the war and the Barbican fwas one big bomb site and great
to play in.

pettgra

And me. My uncle was killed on the first day of the blitz working in Woolwich Arsenal. My grandparents ran the Liberal Club in the war, I think it was situated in the lower road then. My aunt/his sister was in the back garden of the Liberal Club at the time and saw the bombs drop.
His grandson is over from Oz at the moment.It was nice to show him his grandad's grave and let him pay his respects.

Tom_Hovi

Greenie said:

Thanks for this TH, will record it. I have massive interest in WW2 especially the home front.
My father in Laws 13 year old brother was killed in the V2 attack on Woolworths in New Cross, 1944.

According to my late Mum, almost everyone in our corner of southeast London knew someone who was killed at Woolworths in that incident. Mum worked at Woolwich Arsenal and there were a couple of her work colleagues who failed to show up for work on the Monday and it turned out that they were victims there.

Dippenhall

Someone might be able to verify it but I gather one of the reasons why south east London was hit quite hard by V bombs was that we were feeding false intelligence back to the Nazis about where the V bombs were landing. Told they were landing north west of London so that they aimed them towards the less populated areas of south east London rather than north and central London.

Greenie

Tom Hovi said:

Greenie said:

Thanks for this TH, will record it. I have massive interest in WW2 especially the home front.
My father in Laws 13 year old brother was killed in the V2 attack on Woolworths in New Cross, 1944.

According to my late Mum, almost everyone in our corner of southeast London knew someone who was killed at Woolworths in that incident. Mum worked at Woolwich Arsenal and there were a couple of her work colleagues who failed to show up for work on the Monday and it turned out that they were victims there.

Thanks for the info and pic, never seen it before. My Father in Law kept an original newspaper clipping of the incident and often spoke about it and how he thought of his 13 year old brother every day, the kid was on a errand for mum, who never forgave herself. Cheers

Tom_Hovi

Dippenhall said:

Someone might be able to verify it but I gather one of the reasons why south east London was hit quite hard by V bombs was that we were feeding false intelligence back to the Nazis about where the V bombs were landing. Told they were landing north west of London so that they aimed them towards the less populated areas of south east London rather than north and central London.

That is exactly correct. Juan Pujol, perhaps better known as Agent Garbo was a double agent, who convinced the Nazis that he was actually working for them, when in actual fact he was a dedicated Anti-Nazi who fed them with false information throughout the war. One of his triumphs was to convince them that as you say, the V-1s were all overflying London and falling well to the northwest (in fact the early V-1s were mostly falling on target, hence early tragedies such as the Guards Chapel.) This false intelligence was swallowed and consequently the fuel load on the V-1 was adjusted accordingly and they began to fall short - bad news for the London suburbs and parts of Kent and Sussex but it saved central London from further destruction.

For his efforts throughout the war, Pujol was probably the only person to be decorated by both sides - he received the Iron Cross from the Germans and the O.B.E. from the British!

Charltonparklane

Tom Hovi said:

Dippenhall said:

Someone might be able to verify it but I gather one of the reasons why south east London was hit quite hard by V bombs was that we were feeding false intelligence back to the Nazis about where the V bombs were landing. Told they were landing north west of London so that they aimed them towards the less populated areas of south east London rather than north and central London.

That is exactly correct. Juan Pujol, perhaps better known as Agent Garbo was a double agent, who convinced the Nazis that he was actually working for them, when in actual fact he was a dedicated Anti-Nazi who fed them with false information throughout the war. One of his triumphs was to convince them that as you say, the V-1s were all overflying London and falling well to the northwest (in fact the early V-1s were mostly falling on target, hence early tragedies such as the Guards Chapel.) This false intelligence was swallowed and consequently the fuel load on the V-1 was adjusted accordingly and they began to fall short - bad news for the London suburbs and parts of Kent and Sussex but it saved central London from further destruction.

For his efforts throughout the war, Pujol was probably the only person to be decorated by both sides - he received the Iron Cross from the Germans and the O.B.E. from the British!

That is amazing, with the amount of crap 'Stories' about WW2 made into films surely there must have or must be one about this fella?

Tom_Hovi

There's been a couple of documentaries about him and at least three books but never a mainstream movie as far as I know. As you say, would make a great film.

Plumstead_Micky

Greenie said:

Thanks for this TH, will record it. I have massive interest in WW2 especially the home front.
My father in Laws 13 year old brother was killed in the V2 attack on Woolworths in New Cross, 1944.

I remember my Nan mentioning that a few times; saying how awful it was.

JorgeCosta

My dad lived in Purneys Road, Eltham and told me that he saw a V1 pass over and hit the chimney of one of the houses down the road.

As a kid I remember that my grandad had never buried his Anderson shelter but used it as a shed. I think that he and my dad, aunt and uncle spent air raids indoors. He was an ex-regular soldier who had joined the Royal Artillery at Woolwich in 1911 and served in France and Belgium in WW1 and was fatalistic about their chances.

man_at_milletts

My mum used to tell me some horrifying stories about WW2.

She lived in Passey Place at the time with my four elder brothers who were eventually evacuated to Reading, and then North Wales.

Her sister refused to use the Anderson shelter and toughed it out in the house most of the time, until eventually there was a hit a few houses away which shook the life out of the street.

My Dad worked in the Arsenal in the latter years of the war (before I was born), and there was many occasions when he didn't return from work until late because of air raids, which obviously was a worry for my mum.

A-R-T-H-U-R

man_at_milletts said:

My mum used to tell me some horrifying stories about WW2.

She lived in Passey Place at the time with my four elder brothers who were eventually evacuated to Reading, and then North Wales.

Her sister refused to use the Anderson shelter and toughed it out in the house most of the time, until eventually there was a hit a few houses away which shook the life out of the street.

My Dad worked in the Arsenal in the latter years of the war (before I was born), and there was many occasions when he didn't return from work until late because of air raids, which obviously was a worry for my mum.

Having family sent to North Wales is indeed a horrifying story.

man_at_milletts

A-R-T-H-U-R said:

man_at_milletts said:

My mum used to tell me some horrifying stories about WW2.

She lived in Passey Place at the time with my four elder brothers who were eventually evacuated to Reading, and then North Wales.

Her sister refused to use the Anderson shelter and toughed it out in the house most of the time, until eventually there was a hit a few houses away which shook the life out of the street.

My Dad worked in the Arsenal in the latter years of the war (before I was born), and there was many occasions when he didn't return from work until late because of air raids, which obviously was a worry for my mum.

Having family sent to North Wales is indeed a horrifying story.

Ironically, you are right Arthur.

My mum went and got them and brought them home.

thai malaysia addick

I recall, though not too clearly, a number of stories my parents told me about how WW2 affected South East London and some of the posts on here ring a bell. Does anyone know of any books that tell the story of how WW2 affected Charlton and the local area?

Oggy Red

My mum and her family were bombed out of their home in Victoria Dock Road, Tidal Basin on the following afternoon, 8th September 1940. The air raid sirens sounded at about 5pm and they all went to the Anderson shelter in the garden - except for my Grandad, who wasn't back from work. The bombs began to fall when suddenly, my Grandad came through the shelter door and slammed it behind him. At that moment, there was a whistling sound followed by dust everywhere, as the shelter shook and the house was destroyed.

Grandad had cycled home as the bombing raid had began and instead of taking his bike through the terraced house and putting it away in the garden shed, he'd left it in the hallway and ran for the shelter. He was so fortunate.

Now homeless, my Mum's family found refuge in the basement of nearby South Hallsville school.
Mum has told me that she remembers the overwhelming smell of body odour as so many unwashed people slept where they could in their clothes in confined spaces; everybody together on benches, tables and floors. On the 3rd afternoon, my Grandad had found a room in a house in North London and thankfully my family moved out.

A couple of hours after they left the sirens sounded again, the bombs fell and the docks were burning.
South Hallsville school received a direct hit and was totally destroyed.

Official figures reported 77 dead.
Given the hopelessly overcrowded nature of those at the school, sheltering desperate homeless people had lost everything - it would seem the official figures were deliberately misrepresented. More than 500 people known to be there were never accounted for.

http://www.eastlondonhistory.co.uk/second-world-war-bombing-raid-south-hallsville-school/

AddicksAddict

Dippenhall said:

Someone might be able to verify it but I gather one of the reasons why south east London was hit quite hard by V bombs was that we were feeding false intelligence back to the Nazis about where the V bombs were landing. Told they were landing north west of London so that they aimed them towards the less populated areas of south east London rather than north and central London.

I've heard this, too. Also, there's more of a chance of shorts rather than longs with munitions working at the limit of their range.

SE7toSG3

Well done Steve I will make sure I tape this or whatever the modern phrase is as I am on the Asiago Plateau next week. I am sure your contribution was telling.

If anyone is interested in the wartime London then @Tomhovi is extremely knowledgeable in the subject.

soapboxsam

My mum who lives very much for today, but will talk about the war days if she is asked a question. said for the 1st time recently that her neighbours in Bermondsey were killed in their Anderson shelters, and her mum was put off having one because they would be no good with a near hit and told by someone to get down the underground if possible which was nearby. i know my mum was sent away to Worcestershire for a short while but she returned to be with her mum because her dad had died and her older brothers had enlisted in the RAF and went on to be rear gunners in raids over Germany and by a miracle lived to NOT tell the tale of what they had witnessed.

Who survived this carnage is so random.

Tom_Hovi

thai malaysia addick said:

I recall, though not too clearly, a number of stories my parents told me about how WW2 affected South East London and some of the posts on here ring a bell. Does anyone know of any books that tell the story of how WW2 affected Charlton and the local area?

There's a book called 'Red Alert' by Lewis Blake which tells the story of Southeast London at War, although not specifically Charlton or this borough. Long out of print but can still be picked up on Amazon or Abe Books for around £15.00

Now that I am spending far more time on guiding/research etc., a book on the Borough of Greenwich at War is something in my sights to write but as with all these things, it's a matter of making the time to do it. It will happen though!

bazjonster

Thanks for this Tom and thanks to all for the genuinely interesting posts. Shall look forward to this series; not just for the London material but Norwich also, where I now live.

thai malaysia addick

Tom Hovi said:

thai malaysia addick said:

I recall, though not too clearly, a number of stories my parents told me about how WW2 affected South East London and some of the posts on here ring a bell. Does anyone know of any books that tell the story of how WW2 affected Charlton and the local area?

There's a book called 'Red Alert' by Lewis Blake which tells the story of Southeast London at War, although not specifically Charlton or this borough. Long out of print but can still be picked up on Amazon or Abe Books for around £15.00

Now that I am spending far more time on guiding/research etc., a book on the Borough of Greenwich at War is something in my sights to write but as with all these things, it's a matter of making the time to do it. It will happen though!

Thanks, Tom. Already bought a copy.

mistrollingin

Thanks Tom, I love this stuff. Anything from the war and into the early 1960's. My late mum's, mum and dad ran the Yacht pub in Long Lane, Bexleyheath during and after the war. Mum was born in Plumstead and my dear old dad in Camberwell.

Remember, as a kid, growing up in Bexleyheath, the bomb site where Wise furniture / bed store has now been for over 50 years.

Will certainly order a copy of Red Alert.

Thanks again.

Henry Irving

http://www.amazon.com/Walking-London-Blitz-Clive-Harris/dp/0850529603

This bloke is meant to know his stuff

mistrollingin

Henry Irving said:

http://www.amazon.com/Walking-London-Blitz-Clive-Harris/dp/0850529603

This bloke is meant to know his stuff

Thanks, I'll order that as well. Lots to read.

Just as well there's an international break next week!

Henry Irving

I'd you want something with a wider remit try How the Allies won by Richard Overy. The best book I've ever read on WW2.

Very much about the economics and wider strategies of the war but fascinating detail and breadth.

Also Zeppelin night by Jerry White is an excellent book on London in ww1

mistrollingin

Thanks for the heads up Henry.

Recently discovered some papers, from 1944, relating to my dads work during the war building fighter aircraft in Leicester.

Headed, "CONFIDENTIAL" Ministry of Labour and National Service.

Fascinating stuff.

The Red Robin

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/sep/02/blitz-london-bomb-sites-redevelopment

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/gallery/2015/sep/02/hand-coloured-bomb-damage-maps-london-in-pictures

Tom_Hovi

The Red Robin said:

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/sep/02/blitz-london-bomb-sites-redevelopment

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/gallery/2015/sep/02/hand-coloured-bomb-damage-maps-london-in-pictures

That's excellent Red Robin - the bomb damage maps for the Boroughs of Greenwich & Woolwich are available to view at the Heritage Centre down at Woolwich Arsenal.

I've attached an extract that shows The Village and Charlton House.

Tom_Hovi

mistrollingin said:

Thanks Tom, I love this stuff. Anything from the war and into the early 1960's. My late mum's, mum and dad ran the Yacht pub in Long Lane, Bexleyheath during and after the war. Mum was born in Plumstead and my dear old dad in Camberwell.

Remember, as a kid, growing up in Bexleyheath, the bomb site where Wise furniture / bed store has now been for over 50 years.

Will certainly order a copy of Red Alert.

Thanks again.

Also this book co-authored by Clive, which features a Blackheath & Greenwich walk that we still do from time to time

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wander-Through-Wartime-London-Revisiting/dp/1848841728