Need Advice - Selling a Car with Problems

MattD

So last November I bought a BMW E46 330Ci M Sport Automatic.
Since I have had the car I have had a few problems.. An oil leak, rear bushes gone, wingmirror bashed off.

I've had the bushes replaced with Aluminium Bushes and a new wing mirror installed however the oil leak remains.

I just want rid now, before something else goes wrong. I'm not sure if its me overthinking it or not but I have a feeling the gearbox might be on the way out.
It's just that I am a bit wary of people coming back to me after I have sold it.

In my add on gumtree, I have tried to be as honest as possible. I have declared the exterior problems (cracked bumper, rusty arch etc) as well as the mechanical problems (electric mirrors arnt connected, sump gasket oil leak). I decided to not mention anything about the gearbox because at the end of the day, I am not a mechanic and I am not even sure if there is a problem there.

If it was to sell at the asking price £2,000 (bought for £3500!) what would my position be if someone came back the next week complaining about the gearbox?
Everyone tell's me to create a document to prove 'bought as seen' and send that to the DVLA. Is this the way to do it?

Cheers in advance

cafcnick1992

I was gunna buy it until you posted all that

SheedyCAFC

I just bought it, can I return it?

Addickted

Just add 'Caveat Emptor' onto the bill of sale/receipt.

Fairly sure that there is no come back from the buyer. However, it's worthwhile letting them know that there is a small oil leak that requires looking at. Far better to be up front, after all, if you were buying it, you'd want the seller to be open and honest.

ken from bexley

Have a look on here...... Personally I would try and get a quote to get it sorted, it could just be a leaky gasket, or not tightened up properly........
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=882732
Do not go to a main dealer but a specialist BMW independent garage, hope you get it resolved, I am a fellow BMW owner had several of them, normally a decent car, but I understand your concerns.

The_President

You could take it to an auction with a reserve. There's one in Deptford - they love those motas down there innit.

Daggs

It sounds like you are making an honest declaration. You have an 'opinion' the gearbox may be tiring, but you aren't qualified to say. So declare any known faults, but do not start saying the gearbox might be on the way out.
In a private sale there is no real comeback.

But actually for peace of mind 'The president' had made a good suggestion, Or trade it in with a dealer against something else.
Bearing in mind you may or may not get the £2K you are seeking.

Bournemouth Addick

No need to do anything with the invoice, dvla, etc. For private sales under the Sale of Goods Act you only need supply goods that are "as described". You're being more upfront than most and you're under no legal obligation to declare any fault proactively (ignoring the issue of roadworthiness). You're not even sure there is a gearbox problem so, as a private seller you do not have to declare this.

Just be careful when answering any specific questions as these would form part of the legal descriptions and make it clear that you're not a mechanic so not really qualified to start guaranteeing the condition of the car.

floydroadfaithfull

I would get it checked out first don't panic sell or you might end up buying even more trouble not all sellers are as honest as ur being

cafcfan

I posted a draft, very simple contract on a thread in January 2013.
forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/comment/1428377#Comment_1428377

I don't know whether it is still up to date - check the web sites I mentioned.

But don't assume that a private buyer has nothing to worry about as @Addickted indicated. The law is not like that any more. It's more and more about protecting the consumer. So caveat venditor is really the phrase now.

Generally, there is a legal presumption that a seller makes certain warranties unless the buyer and the seller agree otherwise. One such warranty is the implied warranty of merchantability. If a person buys soap, for example, there is an implied warranty that it will clean; if a person buys skis, there is an implied warranty that they will be safe to use on the slopes.

So, unless you tell the buyer that you think the gear box might be on the way out, and it conks out a mile down the road, you can expect him to come calling. A problem (for sellers) is that for low value vehicles ( I believe the claim limit is now £10k.) a claim can be made in the small claims court for very little cost or aggravation. If you tell someone you've got suspicions about the gearbox, you might win in court, if you don't you'll likely lose. (Unless the sale is clearly down to scrap value or parts breakage.) Whether a buyer has the nous to realise all this is a different matter of course but again, that's your risk.

Bournemouth Addick

cafcfan said:

I posted a draft, very simple contract on a thread in January 2013.
forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/comment/1428377#Comment_1428377

I don't know whether it is still up to date - check the web sites I mentioned.

But don't assume that a private buyer has nothing to worry about as @Addickted indicated. The law is not like that any more. It's more and more about protecting the consumer. So caveat venditor is really the phrase now.

Generally, there is a legal presumption that a seller makes certain warranties unless the buyer and the seller agree otherwise. One such warranty is the implied warranty of merchantability. If a person buys soap, for example, there is an implied warranty that it will clean; if a person buys skis, there is an implied warranty that they will be safe to use on the slopes.

So, unless you tell the buyer that you think the gear box might be on the way out, and it conks out a mile down the road, you can expect him to come calling. A problem (for sellers) is that for low value vehicles ( I believe the claim limit is now £10k.) a claim can be made in the small claims court for very little cost or aggravation. If you tell someone you've got suspicions about the gearbox, you might win in court, if you don't you'll likely lose. (Unless the sale is clearly down to scrap value or parts breakage.) Whether a buyer has the nous to realise all this is a different matter of course but again, that's your risk.

With respect you're greatly over complicating what is a very simple contractual situation which is more than adequately addressed through the current legislation. @MattD needs only to make sure he sells something which is "as described" and that he has good title to.

cafcfan

Bournemouth Addick said:

cafcfan said:

I posted a draft, very simple contract on a thread in January 2013.
forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/comment/1428377#Comment_1428377

I don't know whether it is still up to date - check the web sites I mentioned.

But don't assume that a private buyer has nothing to worry about as @Addickted indicated. The law is not like that any more. It's more and more about protecting the consumer. So caveat venditor is really the phrase now.

Generally, there is a legal presumption that a seller makes certain warranties unless the buyer and the seller agree otherwise. One such warranty is the implied warranty of merchantability. If a person buys soap, for example, there is an implied warranty that it will clean; if a person buys skis, there is an implied warranty that they will be safe to use on the slopes.

So, unless you tell the buyer that you think the gear box might be on the way out, and it conks out a mile down the road, you can expect him to come calling. A problem (for sellers) is that for low value vehicles ( I believe the claim limit is now £10k.) a claim can be made in the small claims court for very little cost or aggravation. If you tell someone you've got suspicions about the gearbox, you might win in court, if you don't you'll likely lose. (Unless the sale is clearly down to scrap value or parts breakage.) Whether a buyer has the nous to realise all this is a different matter of course but again, that's your risk.

With respect you're greatly over complicating what is a very simple contractual situation which is more than adequately addressed through the current legislation. @MattD needs only to make sure he sells something which is "as described" and that he has good title to.

You're right, I did. But he asked two questions at the end of the OP. The first of which was what if the buyer comes back and says the gearbox is knackered? How does he deal with that if the buyer threatens the small claims court?
The second question I didn't really understand: why do his mates think the DVLA would be interested? Do you know?

MartinCAFC

Try WeBuyAnyCar.com - they really do buy any car as well. I sold my old car to them and all they did was inspect it on the outside and didn't even have to turn on the ignition. Of course I didn't tell them Kwik-Fit had quoted me £700 to repair it but then they didn't ask. Got the full price I was quoted too.

Leroy Ambrose

cafcfan said:

Bournemouth Addick said:

cafcfan said:

I posted a draft, very simple contract on a thread in January 2013.
forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/comment/1428377#Comment_1428377

I don't know whether it is still up to date - check the web sites I mentioned.

But don't assume that a private buyer has nothing to worry about as @Addickted indicated. The law is not like that any more. It's more and more about protecting the consumer. So caveat venditor is really the phrase now.

Generally, there is a legal presumption that a seller makes certain warranties unless the buyer and the seller agree otherwise. One such warranty is the implied warranty of merchantability. If a person buys soap, for example, there is an implied warranty that it will clean; if a person buys skis, there is an implied warranty that they will be safe to use on the slopes.

So, unless you tell the buyer that you think the gear box might be on the way out, and it conks out a mile down the road, you can expect him to come calling. A problem (for sellers) is that for low value vehicles ( I believe the claim limit is now £10k.) a claim can be made in the small claims court for very little cost or aggravation. If you tell someone you've got suspicions about the gearbox, you might win in court, if you don't you'll likely lose. (Unless the sale is clearly down to scrap value or parts breakage.) Whether a buyer has the nous to realise all this is a different matter of course but again, that's your risk.

With respect you're greatly over complicating what is a very simple contractual situation which is more than adequately addressed through the current legislation. @MattD needs only to make sure he sells something which is "as described" and that he has good title to.

You're right, I did. But he asked two questions at the end of the OP. The first of which was what if the buyer comes back and says the gearbox is knackered? How does he deal with that if the buyer threatens the small claims court?
The second question I didn't really understand: why do his mates think the DVLA would be interested? Do you know?

So long as he doesn't hint that he thinks the gearbox might be knackered before he sold it, how is the first point relevant? He's not a mechanic.

Lincsaddick

'sold as seen' are the words to use .. and learn to duck and/or fight if you sell to a tasty geezer who has loads of trouble wiv the jam jar after purchasing it and wants his bit of dough returned

E=mc2

Potential buyer would probably test drive it - unless the gearbox is slipping whereby the revs go up and struggles to go up into higher gears etc, or shunts when you put it into drive? there is no need to mention anything about the box, 'Unless the person finds fault with it via the test drive. Seems you covered everything else in honesty. You won't receive any comebacks unless something goes seriously wrong within a few days.
[Sold as Inspected and Seen].

The_President

MartinCAFC said:

Try WeBuyAnyCar.com - they really do buy any car as well. I sold my old car to them and all they did was inspect it on the outside and didn't even have to turn on the ignition. Of course I didn't tell them Kwik-Fit had quoted me £700 to repair it but then they didn't ask. Got the full price I was quoted too.

You were lucky mate - my car online with withbuyancar was 5200 - by the time they had offered me the money it was 3600 - told them to stick it where the sun doesnt shine - apparently, this is a very regular occurennce with them - however, you dont have to accept their quote.

Clem_Snide

The_President said:

MartinCAFC said:

Try WeBuyAnyCar.com - they really do buy any car as well. I sold my old car to them and all they did was inspect it on the outside and didn't even have to turn on the ignition. Of course I didn't tell them Kwik-Fit had quoted me £700 to repair it but then they didn't ask. Got the full price I was quoted too.

You were lucky mate - my car online with withbuyancar was 5200 - by the time they had offered me the money it was 3600 - told them to stick it where the sun doesnt shine - apparently, this is a very regular occurennce with them - however, you dont have to accept their quote.

Have sold twice to We Buy Any Car and both times got the price quoted online. As long as you are honest about scratches, dents or marks they will honour the quote.

MattD

Thanks for all the replies.

The car has been on Gumtree for 8 days, listed at £2,200.
I had one offer of £1,700 so far.
I got a quote from We Buy Any car for £1,740 (added details about the cracked bumper and oil leak)

After speaking to a mechanic I am concerned even more about the Gearbox and for that reason I think it may be better to go down the WeBuyAnyCar route.

I can't really test it out any more without getting an MOT & Insured, money I dont want to spend. Plus, I would be more than happy with £1,700. I had £1,300 in my mind as an absolute minimum.

Don't plan on fixing it at all, even if it is cheap because I want another BMW anyway. Manual convertible is what I should have got in the first place.
Here is the ad for anyone who wants a read. I think its half decent.
https://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/bmw-e46-330ci-m-sport-auto/1130541040
(I reduced the price)

One more question, how would I get the car to WBAC without MOT/Insurance. You can't tow it without can you?

Crusty54

The_President said:

You could take it to an auction with a reserve. There's one in Deptford - they love those motas down there innit.

There'a an auction in Charlton now. Across Woolwich Road from The Valley.

letthegoodtimesroll

An 'asking price' is only ever a starting point. If WBAC are offering £1740 then that sounds pretty good to me, especially as it should be a quick, clean sale and lots of peace of mind with no come backs once it's gone...next time you might want to look into leasing a new one with 3 year warranties...who needs to actually own a car these days ?

Halix

The_President said:

MartinCAFC said:

Try WeBuyAnyCar.com - they really do buy any car as well. I sold my old car to them and all they did was inspect it on the outside and didn't even have to turn on the ignition. Of course I didn't tell them Kwik-Fit had quoted me £700 to repair it but then they didn't ask. Got the full price I was quoted too.

You were lucky mate - my car online with withbuyancar was 5200 - by the time they had offered me the money it was 3600 - told them to stick it where the sun doesnt shine - apparently, this is a very regular occurennce with them - however, you dont have to accept their quote.

I understand that if you work for WBAC staff are encouraged to "Chip" a car before final valuation in order to increase the profit for the individual profit center, in otherwords going around the car with a fine toothfomb in order to spot any flaw, or difference from how the car was described. I looked into this when looking for a job because I was suprised at how often the same area was readvertising for staff, and the net lists lots of examples where ex staff have described the presures that are put on them.

At the end of the day they are only working to a trade price, the same as the auction houses and dealerships, the auction is higher risk and you may not hit reserve but a the end of the day you pays your money you..... If you advertise privately as sold with a potential gearbox problem you may get someone who is happy to drive it till it breaks, you may get a reduced price but still be able to sleep at night.

The_President

I took 2 cars on different occasions to WBAC in Gosport - on both occasions they wanted to reduce the online value (very) substantially by advising me that the cars were 'imports'. Now, it happens , on the first visit to their depot, that the guy there told me that WBAC are owned by British Car Auctions - on the second visit with a different car, I was inspected by a different chap who told me it was an 'import' - to which my response was 'you're owned by BCA aren't you?' to which the answer was 'yes' - 'well, I bought this car at BCA in Manchester - AND YOU DIDNT TELL ME IT WAS AN IMPORT THEN - DID YOU)', all of which was true.
I went home thinking this must be a scam, and typed WBAC import scam into Google only for there to be nothing.
I sold it for the full price privately a couple of weeks later.
I wonder how many they get reduced by being an 'import' that are then re-sold at Auction (all WBAC buys are sold at auction), and not advised as so.?