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calling those lovely CL grammar police

edited September 2015 in Not Sports Related
As some of you may not know I left Secondary school with no qualifications.. and I such I didn't learn me much grammar n stuff as RW knows all too well.

right now I am writing some words for this dissertation thingmy on cyber warfare and need some advice please and thank you kind CL people:

when do I use capitalisation, inverted commas and when do I use italics? Have looked online for advice but its not that straightforward,

https://weblearn.ox.ac.uk/access/content/group/01a2c7e3-3066-493a-9809-3d6ff12141d2/thesesconventions.pdf

and I'm being a bit thick possibly due to deadline looming and lots of editing and 2000 or so more words needed


For example if I use terms like cyber warfare, does it have capitals?

or if I use terms like honey pot or hack back should they be in italics?

When do I use inverted commas? e.g. 'warrior geek' and should it have capitals?

I generally copy the way its done in the source, but not sure that's correct.

Many thanks

R

«1

Comments

  • Italics are usually used for film, song, TV, book, magazine and newspaper titles when they are mentioned in copy, so I wouldn't italicize 'honey pot', etc. So, for instance: 'Clyde Stubblefield's drum groove on the James Brown song Cold Sweat was hugely influential.'

    Some newpsapers and magazines also italicize ship's names and/or foreign words, but I don't see either used much these days. Then again, italicizing a word is a useful way to add emphasis: I bloody well did say that!'
  • Some organisations produce "Style Guides" - see what I did there?

    They can be quite useful to help develop a consistant style of your own.

    Here's the BBC's: bbc.co.uk/academy/journalism/article/art20130702112133530

    And this might be useful? Another bit of quality EU at work for us!
    ec.europa.eu/translation/english/guidelines/documents/styleguide_english_dgt_en.pdf

    The Bank of England had an excellent guide but I can't find it on-line - it may be for internal consumption only.
  • edited September 2015
    Or you can go all Tory Boy on us! telegraph.co.uk/topics/about-us/style-book/1435307/Telegraph-style-book-Aa.html

    ETA: Actually that's not bad. But I only got as far as B....
  • Razil, who are you studying with? Cafcfan's point about style guides is a good one, but as different places have different conventions we may end up advising you in the wrong way. Has your course not given you a guide as to what they expect? You also need to take care that you're using the appropriate referencing conventions too.
  • If you are putting down your own words in a normal way and with their conventional meaning then you can probably forget about rules about quotes and italics. You may not ever come across the obtuse use of English covered in the guides.

    For what it's worth following might help but I'm not an English teacher!

    I don't have a clue what cyber warfare is, and can't be bothered to google it, so either you could just use the words assuming the reader will work it out from the context, or, you put it in italics so i know i have to make an effort to work it out from the context. Or you could help me by defining it in a formal sort of way as if in a dictionary with cyber warfare in italics.

    Simple rule for capitals is only use them if you only ever see the word elsewhere in capitals.

    Honey pot same as cyber warfare. If "honey pot" (your words) is a euphemism for a something attractive that is not actually a pot with honey in it I might put it in italics if it was in the middle of a serious article. Probably not if writing on CL because everyone would know I was referring to a tart tempting me to have her wicked way with me.

    Think of italics as used for words the reader either isn't expected to understand without some help or used out of context like....She's married to a Nigel but her puppies are so cute.

    Could also use italics if you use words that are not intended to be read literally but as a cliche so people don't think you are a nob ... It was a typical game of two halves.

    inverted commas are single marks and used when quoting the title of a book or play for example. Quotation marks of the double variety, and the clue is in the name, just denote words said by someone else. Think of using double quotation marks when the words are meant to be read as if your were hearing someone saying them.
  • thanks chaps, Reading Uni is where I am studying will look up style guide right now
  • Proper nouns and acronyms have caps as well as the start of sentences obviously.

    It does seem common place to add capitals to other words though. She works in Accounts etc but not sure that is correct unless it is protocol in the company etc.

    So if it is a person or place then it has capitals (Razil from Kent). If a letter stands for something then it has capitals - MBA and Mr for example but not the c in MSc as the c isn't the start of a word. Which makes me think (Mr) that shortened words may also have Caps such as Caps and Etc.

    God is supposed to be with a capital because it's supposedly a proper noun - equally if He or Him (God that is) is used in church etc.

    And stuff like that. I fink.
  • edited September 2015
    Imagine a Millwall supporter wandering onto this thread by mistake? He'd tip his fruit and veg barrow over!
  • Surely you're not going to listen to these guys are you?
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  • Always happy to help with a dissertation so my nugget for you is that cockwomble does not require a hyphen
  • Latin quotes are normally in italics, unless it's ultra vires
  • Can't believe that "calling" hasn't got a capital C.
  • razil said:
    Love the bit that says "correct use of grammar and punctuation are important". When it should be is important of course. On that basis I wouldn't rely too much on the Uni's guide.
    Sack the Dean!
  • edited September 2015
    Here's my take on it:

    If I use terms like cyber warfare, does it have capitals?

    No, 'it' is a pronoun so there's no need to capitalise. Seriously, I wouldn't use capitals for cyber warfare unless it's in a title, reserve your capitals for proper nouns.

    If I use terms like honey pot or hack back should they be in italics?

    I wouldn't, unless there was a particular reason to do so. In which case you'd put a note in the text explaining why they are italicised. For example, 'words in italics denote systems currently in use'.

    When do I use inverted commas? e.g. 'warrior geek' and should it have capitals?

    Inverted commas soften what you are saying. If 'warrior geek' is a phrase that is not really your choice but which others use, you can use it to distance yourself a little. Alternatively you can use them to pick out a phrase and make it clear what you are discussing. However I'd probably be inclined to use this only when introducing a term, not when it's cropped up for the fiftieth time.

    I generally copy the way its done in the source, but not sure that's correct?

    Probably correct in most cases. As a general rule, if you feel the need to change it (for example, to highlight a particular passage in someone's text) you should state what changes you've made.
  • edited September 2015
    cafcfan said:

    Some organisations produce "Style Guides" - see what I did there?

    They can be quite useful to help develop a consistant style of your own.

    Here's the BBC's: bbc.co.uk/academy/journalism/article/art20130702112133530

    And this might be useful? Another bit of quality EU at work for us!
    ec.europa.eu/translation/english/guidelines/documents/styleguide_english_dgt_en.pdf

    The Bank of England had an excellent guide but I can't find it on-line - it may be for internal consumption only.

    Shocking spelling. 3/10
  • I "Agree" with Stig
  • edited September 2015
    Keep it simple. I tend to avoid inverted commas except as speech marks. If you don't agree with a phrasw, say so briefly, rather than trying to imply it through punctuation.
  • If you want it proofread, I'd be happy to help.
  • Hi Razil, someone who goes to Charlton to forget about the editor day-job here. Dippenhall and Stig have nailed it - the one point I'd add to their responses is consistency. Things like use of caps/italics tend to be covered by organisations' style guides (all of which vary) to make sure all their outward-facing documentation is tidy and consistent - in this context, the key is consistency within your paper. If you eg assign italics/bold emphasis/caps to designate X/Y/Z, make sure they're used for the same purpose throughout and they'll become informative and authoritative of their own volition.

    Happy to help out with some proofreading as well!
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  • Imagine a Millwall supporter wandering onto this thread by mistake? He'd tip his fruit and veg barrow over!

    "he d tip over his fruit and veg barrow"

  • lolwray said:

    Imagine a Millwall supporter wandering onto this thread by mistake? He'd tip his fruit and veg barrow over!

    "he d tip over his fruit and veg barrow"

    That reminds me of the prostitute who approached a policeman. Her proposition ended with a sentence.
  • The word italics would only appear in italics if there was a book etc. called Italics
  • I do not believe there is a hard and fast rule regardi.g the use of italics as they are not an established form of punctuation but rather a style choice of the writer. For instance in the King James bible of the 17th c. the word "god" was presented in italics presumably to distinguish it from other words. It reads strangely now, giving the impression of an unnatural spoken emphasis to the mind's ear.
  • edited September 2015
    lolwray said:

    Imagine a Millwall supporter wandering onto this thread by mistake? He'd tip his fruit and veg barrow over!

    "he d tip over his fruit and veg barrow"

    Touché. I would add the apostrophe if I were you or your standing in the CL grammar police upper echelon could be called into serious question. You have been let off with a typo this time.
  • Razil mate I'm happy to proof-read a chapter or two, and I hope others feel the same, so I don't feel I have to do all of it ;) When you're nearly there send over your work and I'll touch up any mistakes in spelling/grammar/linguistics and if I'm feeling smart then maybe ask a couple of questions of your arguments!
  • I don't like or use italics, so I can't advise on this. I would only use italics in references.

    My advice is to keep your sentences short. Academic writing is plagued by long, rambling sentences. Shorter sentences help you make your point more efficiently.

    Never use semicolons; no one knows how to use them.
  • edited September 2015
    Wow thats an offer I might take up, would need to be one person tho ideally, and you must swear secrecy and promise not to giggle
  • razil said:

    Wow thats an offer I might take up, would need to be one person tho ideally, and you must swear secrecy and promise not to giggle

    Ah go on then. You can send files over FB mate. I have a consistent writing style at least, even if it's not Reading's - but as Bristol suggested to me, it's the consistency and not the style that matters overall. (You can sort of make it up as long as all the references are in the same format, same with italics and quote marks etc)
  • I would hardly ever use italics other than in a quote. In a quote such as Luzon said 'I'm pissed' if I could get my phone to italicise the words in the inverted commas I would.

    I would only capitalise pre-defined terms or initials. So I might say Charlton Athletic Football Club (CAFC) if people didn't already know.

    I hate random capitalisation which my American colleagues seem to like especially in headings.

    The Most Important Heading in the World.

    Grrrr

    Agree with earlier comments though, whatever you decide, be consistent.
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