The big experiment
Without a stated end in sight, I wonder:
At what point does this experiment get brought to a close on humanitarian grounds?
Comments
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What is the experiment exactly?
Focus on the league because it is so important? Ok sure - we can do that, if we actually had a squad that didn't look like it was a youth side after a couple of injuries within 8 games of the season.
We don't have the squad to be a promotion chasing side. So just take games like tonight head on and finish mid-table if thats what is meant to be. What else can we realistically do?! How did the management mess this one up so bad?!0 -
Don't kid yourself mate, we're not to know!cafctom said:What is the experiment exactly?
All we know is what we can piece together. The Staprix Experiment seems to involve a network of clubs (now diminished) and the belief that value can be made by surfacing undervalued players from the continent (where "costs of productions" are lower). In and of itself, not a bad idea, but combined with an eccentric autocrat who seems to have not an emotional bone in his body, nor a care for anything that can't be represented on a spreadsheet, it seems merely designed to eradicate any pride we have in our own club, its history and traditions.26 -
Have to see what Katrien says about all of that.LoOkOuT said:
Don't kid yourself mate, we're not to know!cafctom said:What is the experiment exactly?
All we know is what we can piece together. The Staprix Experiment seems to involve a network of clubs (now diminished) and the belief that value can be made by surfacing undervalued players from the continent (where "costs of productions" are lower). In and of itself, not a bad idea, but combined with an eccentric autocrat who seems to have not an emotional bone in his body, nor a care for anything that can't be represented on a spreadsheet, it seems merely designed to eradicate any pride we have in our own club, its history and traditions.
I sometimes think she's more in the dark than the rest of us!
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Really good piece. I am not convinced that there is any purposeful attempt to eradicate our pride and history etc though. That's purely because these 'owners' just don't get it! They have no perception of what history and pride means to the supporter of a football club. Even if they did try and 'get it' they wouldn't give a monkey's uncle anyway!! The majority of business 'folk' who decide to play with a football club are in it for morbid curiosity and in the hope of making a fast buck. They have no empathy/sympathy/compassion with the run of the mill die hard fan who eats/drinks/sleeps their football club in my opinion.LoOkOuT said:
Don't kid yourself mate, we're not to know!cafctom said:What is the experiment exactly?
All we know is what we can piece together. The Staprix Experiment seems to involve a network of clubs (now diminished) and the belief that value can be made by surfacing undervalued players from the continent (where "costs of productions" are lower). In and of itself, not a bad idea, but combined with an eccentric autocrat who seems to have not an emotional bone in his body, nor a care for anything that can't be represented on a spreadsheet, it seems merely designed to eradicate any pride we have in our own club, its history and traditions.
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I would replace 'intent to eradicate' with 'a lack of understanding of or care for'. We know the owner has a pretty arrogant viewpoint on this – it is basically his club and he can do what he wants with it. This is true but you don’t even have to be a businessman to know, this is not a good way to run things. People say because he is a multi millionaire, it proves he knows what he is doing, but I just don’t see that. To be honest, when I read the interview in the trust magazine (not about football), his ranting sounded like he wasn’t all there.
Under his ownership, some quality has been brought into the club, so you think maybe the set up does have a plan. To me, clearly there are some good people within it – which may include the manager – but the way it is run makes no sense – a bit like the owner’s political policies!
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We're 8 games into the season. Whilst 15th isn't great I wouldn't commence pants shitting just yet3
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We all knew the squad wasn't strong enough - injuries have brought the issues we expected around November to occur in September. Part of that is bad luck. I have no doubt - because I have seen the quality - that when Luzon puts out our fully fit, best eleven, we are a match for anybody. But the league is tough - you have to play dirty teams like Forest etc... How many times are you going to be able to play those players and if a few of them are carrying knocks they become lesser players. When you have too many unproven youngsters starting, you can see the problem. It is not their fault, but the strength needed is just not there. I would be surprised if we went down, but surely we needed to balance the squad much better than we have done.6
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100% SUPPORT0
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For me it's about the risk involved with pumping in a lot of money. We know he just wants the club to be profitable. Of course it would be more profitable if we were in the PL but then the affects of pumping in a lot of money and not getting promoted would be pretty disastrous and we already know there's an element of chance involved.
It's far from ideal but it's what we'll have to put up with. We're going to be a mid-table championship team for as long as RD is at the helm unless we stumble across a few absolute gems in the process.1 -
The club will never be profitable outside of the PL...Leeds_Addick said:For me it's about the risk involved with pumping in a lot of money. We know he just wants the club to be profitable. Of course it would be more profitable if we were in the PL but then the affects of pumping in a lot of money and not getting promoted would be pretty disastrous and we already know there's an element of chance involved.
It's far from ideal but it's what we'll have to put up with. We're going to be a mid-table championship team for as long as RD is at the helm unless we stumble across a few absolute gems in the process.9 - Sponsored links:
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Well that's what 'the experiment' is about right? That's what he's trying to achieve?LeaburnForEngland said:
The club will never be profitable outside of the PL...Leeds_Addick said:For me it's about the risk involved with pumping in a lot of money. We know he just wants the club to be profitable. Of course it would be more profitable if we were in the PL but then the affects of pumping in a lot of money and not getting promoted would be pretty disastrous and we already know there's an element of chance involved.
It's far from ideal but it's what we'll have to put up with. We're going to be a mid-table championship team for as long as RD is at the helm unless we stumble across a few absolute gems in the process.0 -
Don't think there's any pants shitting going on. Just the boring, tedious realisation, very early in the season, that we're not going to achieve anything this season and that Roland has once again left us short on the playing front.Addicted said:We're 8 games into the season. Whilst 15th isn't great I wouldn't commence pants shitting just yet
Not going down, not going up. Flirt with the play-offs for about half an hour during the first couple of weeks of the season. Flirt with mid-table mediocrity for a month or two, flirt with relegation for a couple of months. Then rise, gloriously, magnificently, like the Titanic being brought back to the surface from the ocean bed, out of the relegation zone, climbing majestically, all the way up to 15th. Flirt with mid-table mediocrity for the remainder of the season.16 -
Sadly this is the case for a lot of clubs in the league. Us, Reading, Cardiff, Forest, Leeds, Huddersfield, Wednesday, Fulham, Brentford, Wolves, Blackburn. Sticking money on those teams being between 7th and 21st would be a pretty good bet imo. Aside from Brentford and Wolves, they all had pretty similar seasons last year too.MrLargo said:
Don't think there's any pants shitting going on. Just the boring, tedious realisation, very early in the season, that we're not going to achieve anything this season and that Roland has once again left us short on the playing front.Addicted said:We're 8 games into the season. Whilst 15th isn't great I wouldn't commence pants shitting just yet
Not going down, not going up. Flirt with the play-offs for about half an hour during the first couple of weeks of the season. Flirt with mid-table mediocrity for a month or two, flirt with relegation for a couple of months. Then rise, gloriously, magnificently, like the Titanic being brought back to the surface from the ocean bed, out of the relegation zone, climbing majestically, all the way up to 15th. Flirt with mid-table mediocrity for the remainder of the season.0 -
The mad thing is, if you don't pump in enough money you may as well not pump in any. Let's say Roland has invested heavily this season - and as far as we know he has, we're certainly over budget, without knowing what the budget is. For the sake of argument let's say he's spent £6m on the team. It's not enough. Our squad is still too thin and we can't cover even the most light number of injuries to first team players. We could fill out our squad better with three or four more signings, so that could maybe be an extra £2m. Going by the quality of players unearthed this season that would really sort us out. We'd be competitive, we wouldn't have to worry about relegation and we could think about the play offs. Perfect. Roland doesn't want to because he's set the budget and he doesn't want to go above it, but he's wasted his money if he doesn't invest enough for us to have a go. He'd be better of investing nothing at all and letting us slide down like Blackpool. It's just bad value if he doesn't give Luzon a proper squad.Leeds_Addick said:For me it's about the risk involved with pumping in a lot of money. We know he just wants the club to be profitable. Of course it would be more profitable if we were in the PL but then the affects of pumping in a lot of money and not getting promoted would be pretty disastrous and we already know there's an element of chance involved.
It's far from ideal but it's what we'll have to put up with. We're going to be a mid-table championship team for as long as RD is at the helm unless we stumble across a few absolute gems in the process.6 -
He needs good relevant advice ... sadly he doesn't appear to be receiving it ...either that or he refuses to listen.Garrymanilow said:
The mad thing is, if you don't pump in enough money you may as well not pump in any. Let's say Roland has invested heavily this season - and as far as we know he has, we're certainly over budget, without knowing what the budget is. For the sake of argument let's say he's spent £6m on the team. It's not enough. Our squad is still too thin and we can't cover even the most light number of injuries to first team players. We could fill out our squad better with three or four more signings, so that could maybe be an extra £2m. Going by the quality of players unearthed this season that would really sort us out. We'd be competitive, we wouldn't have to worry about relegation and we could think about the play offs. Perfect. Roland doesn't want to because he's set the budget and he doesn't want to go above it, but he's wasted his money if he doesn't invest enough for us to have a go. He'd be better of investing nothing at all and letting us slide down like Blackpool. It's just bad value if he doesn't give Luzon a proper squad.Leeds_Addick said:For me it's about the risk involved with pumping in a lot of money. We know he just wants the club to be profitable. Of course it would be more profitable if we were in the PL but then the affects of pumping in a lot of money and not getting promoted would be pretty disastrous and we already know there's an element of chance involved.
It's far from ideal but it's what we'll have to put up with. We're going to be a mid-table championship team for as long as RD is at the helm unless we stumble across a few absolute gems in the process.0 -
Difference is, most of those other clubs ownership desire promotion even if they are unlikely to achieve it, the intent is there, not covinced ours does, which is worrying as a Charlton fan personally.Leeds_Addick said:
Sadly this is the case for a lot of clubs in the league. Us, Reading, Cardiff, Forest, Leeds, Huddersfield, Wednesday, Fulham, Brentford, Wolves, Blackburn. Sticking money on those teams being between 7th and 21st would be a pretty good bet imo. Aside from Brentford and Wolves, they all had pretty similar seasons last year too.MrLargo said:
Don't think there's any pants shitting going on. Just the boring, tedious realisation, very early in the season, that we're not going to achieve anything this season and that Roland has once again left us short on the playing front.Addicted said:We're 8 games into the season. Whilst 15th isn't great I wouldn't commence pants shitting just yet
Not going down, not going up. Flirt with the play-offs for about half an hour during the first couple of weeks of the season. Flirt with mid-table mediocrity for a month or two, flirt with relegation for a couple of months. Then rise, gloriously, magnificently, like the Titanic being brought back to the surface from the ocean bed, out of the relegation zone, climbing majestically, all the way up to 15th. Flirt with mid-table mediocrity for the remainder of the season.
As i can take us being rubbish & failing to get promoted but fear any owner who has no interest in on pitch results.7 -
I suspect it is the latter.stonemuse said:
He needs good relevant advice ... sadly he doesn't appear to be receiving it ...either that or he refuses to listen.Garrymanilow said:
The mad thing is, if you don't pump in enough money you may as well not pump in any. Let's say Roland has invested heavily this season - and as far as we know he has, we're certainly over budget, without knowing what the budget is. For the sake of argument let's say he's spent £6m on the team. It's not enough. Our squad is still too thin and we can't cover even the most light number of injuries to first team players. We could fill out our squad better with three or four more signings, so that could maybe be an extra £2m. Going by the quality of players unearthed this season that would really sort us out. We'd be competitive, we wouldn't have to worry about relegation and we could think about the play offs. Perfect. Roland doesn't want to because he's set the budget and he doesn't want to go above it, but he's wasted his money if he doesn't invest enough for us to have a go. He'd be better of investing nothing at all and letting us slide down like Blackpool. It's just bad value if he doesn't give Luzon a proper squad.Leeds_Addick said:For me it's about the risk involved with pumping in a lot of money. We know he just wants the club to be profitable. Of course it would be more profitable if we were in the PL but then the affects of pumping in a lot of money and not getting promoted would be pretty disastrous and we already know there's an element of chance involved.
It's far from ideal but it's what we'll have to put up with. We're going to be a mid-table championship team for as long as RD is at the helm unless we stumble across a few absolute gems in the process.2 -
I highly doubt we'd get relegated this year so maybe this 'budget' is an amount set that if we can spend only this and avoid relegation then that would make us profitable. Obviously I don't know enough to say this but for me this can be the only logical thing that RD is doing.Garrymanilow said:
The mad thing is, if you don't pump in enough money you may as well not pump in any. Let's say Roland has invested heavily this season - and as far as we know he has, we're certainly over budget, without knowing what the budget is. For the sake of argument let's say he's spent £6m on the team. It's not enough. Our squad is still too thin and we can't cover even the most light number of injuries to first team players. We could fill out our squad better with three or four more signings, so that could maybe be an extra £2m. Going by the quality of players unearthed this season that would really sort us out. We'd be competitive, we wouldn't have to worry about relegation and we could think about the play offs. Perfect. Roland doesn't want to because he's set the budget and he doesn't want to go above it, but he's wasted his money if he doesn't invest enough for us to have a go. He'd be better of investing nothing at all and letting us slide down like Blackpool. It's just bad value if he doesn't give Luzon a proper squad.Leeds_Addick said:For me it's about the risk involved with pumping in a lot of money. We know he just wants the club to be profitable. Of course it would be more profitable if we were in the PL but then the affects of pumping in a lot of money and not getting promoted would be pretty disastrous and we already know there's an element of chance involved.
It's far from ideal but it's what we'll have to put up with. We're going to be a mid-table championship team for as long as RD is at the helm unless we stumble across a few absolute gems in the process.0 -
It is currently impossible for Charlton to break even year-on-year in this division, other than by selling a significant player every year. There just isn't enough revenue to support a team of adequate standard. RD may well have started from that position, but it can't be done. To square the circle you'd have to dramatically expand the revenue while cutting player costs. Neither is really possible and there is an obvious tension between the two anyway.Leeds_Addick said:
I highly doubt we'd get relegated this year so maybe this 'budget' is an amount set that if we can spend only this and avoid relegation then that would make us profitable. Obviously I don't know enough to say this but for me this can be the only logical thing that RD is doing.Garrymanilow said:
The mad thing is, if you don't pump in enough money you may as well not pump in any. Let's say Roland has invested heavily this season - and as far as we know he has, we're certainly over budget, without knowing what the budget is. For the sake of argument let's say he's spent £6m on the team. It's not enough. Our squad is still too thin and we can't cover even the most light number of injuries to first team players. We could fill out our squad better with three or four more signings, so that could maybe be an extra £2m. Going by the quality of players unearthed this season that would really sort us out. We'd be competitive, we wouldn't have to worry about relegation and we could think about the play offs. Perfect. Roland doesn't want to because he's set the budget and he doesn't want to go above it, but he's wasted his money if he doesn't invest enough for us to have a go. He'd be better of investing nothing at all and letting us slide down like Blackpool. It's just bad value if he doesn't give Luzon a proper squad.Leeds_Addick said:For me it's about the risk involved with pumping in a lot of money. We know he just wants the club to be profitable. Of course it would be more profitable if we were in the PL but then the affects of pumping in a lot of money and not getting promoted would be pretty disastrous and we already know there's an element of chance involved.
It's far from ideal but it's what we'll have to put up with. We're going to be a mid-table championship team for as long as RD is at the helm unless we stumble across a few absolute gems in the process.7 -
Maybe that's why he is ploughing all that money into the academy, because he thinks over time it will produce more Joe Gomez types? That way he could flog all our best youngsters for a profit whilst spending as little as possible on cut price unknown foreign players to enable us to keep our heads above water in the Championship. He might even make a few quid on some of those cut-price players too if he's lucky.2
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Who knows what he is trying to do, but in the meantime he's building a debt mountain that will heavily outweigh the resale value of the club. That would only change in the Premier League.WestCountryAddick said:Maybe that's why he is ploughing all that money into the academy, because he thinks over time it will produce more Joe Gomez types? That way he could flog all our best youngsters for a profit whilst spending as little as possible on cut price unknown foreign players to enable us to keep our heads above water in the Championship. He might even make a few quid on some of those cut-price players too if he's lucky.
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How long was he at standard liege for? Just wondering/hoping he gets bored quickly.3
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Is the debt mountain that relevant if its to the owner?0
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Yes if he wants to get it back.razil said:Is the debt mountain that relevant if its to the owner?
If he cannot make any money out of the club and he does not want to invest enough to get in the PL it is hard to see now why he hangs on to it.
In my business experience sometimes owners hang on to loss-making businesses for too long hoping that something will happen to allow them to get their money back. That seldom happens and in the end they go bust or sell at a big loss.
These two options look favourite for us sadly.
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Indeed - you can see what the 90s/Premier League directors got out of their involvement because they were Charlton fans, even though I'm sure they didn't intend to forfeit as much as they did - but it's hard to see what RD gets out of burning his money.Southbank said:
Yes if he wants to get it back.razil said:Is the debt mountain that relevant if its to the owner?
If he cannot make any money out of the club and he does not want to invest enough to get in the PL it is hard to see now why he hangs on to it.
In my business experience sometimes owners hang on to loss-making businesses for too long hoping that something will happen to allow them to get their money back. That seldom happens and in the end they go bust or sell at a big loss.
These two options look favourite for us sadly.
He probably overpaid for the club in the first place, but there is only one way he can add sufficient value to have any chance of getting his money back.0 -
He will not go bust, but will get fed up of putting money in with no returnSouthbank said:
Yes if he wants to get it back.razil said:Is the debt mountain that relevant if its to the owner?
If he cannot make any money out of the club and he does not want to invest enough to get in the PL it is hard to see now why he hangs on to it.
In my business experience sometimes owners hang on to loss-making businesses for too long hoping that something will happen to allow them to get their money back. That seldom happens and in the end they go bust or sell at a big loss.
These two options look favourite for us sadly.0 -
He will not go bust,but the club might1
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A big part of the experiment went out the window with the FFP cave in by the spineless FA/FL. Now who knows what RD's plans are. Maybe not even him yet.6
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Sure but not in his interest to wreck it as he'd never be able sell it, and don't forget we have ACV on the Valley.. Perhaps we should also apply for the training ground0
