Plans to turn the Club shop into flats?

Ghostofcharltonpast

3blokes said:

The appointment of Karel F signals no ambition whatsoever on the football front so maybe this reveals what the real ambition is.
I think RD may well turn out to be our worst nightmare. Someone who has accrued so much through his businesses does not suddenly become an idiot overnight. Arrogant, pig headed maybe but not a fool. It is beginning to look very much as though his plans for the development of Charlton Athletic are very much going to be the polar opposite of what we want.
I am not sure what any of us can do to turn this business back into a football club, but I'm up for trying to help with future collective action.
What a mess football is in.

can i suggest you contact RBG with all your concerns,
im sure if you keep knocking they will eventually open up and will have to give some sought of answer.

stonemuse

curiouser and curiouser

InspectorSands

msomerton said:

\you can rule out the move to the Greenwich Penisular. The Hong Kong developers only interested in luxury homes, hotels and offices. A football stadium would not fit into this.

Different site. The Morden Wharf site features as an arena in a Greenwich Council masterplan (Greenwich Peninsula West Masterplan) and is under different ownership (Cathedral Group, I think).

bobmunro

Henry Irving said:

The "gossip" I heard was that the idea, and it was just an idea, had been floated to move the shop to the ticket collection point on the other side of the entrance.

This will be with the background that the four year deal with Just Sport to run the club shop expires this summer. The club's stated intention was to bring the retail activity back in house. In any case historically this is the time of year when new kits and new kit deals are negotiated between the club and new or existing suppliers.

My fear is that we go off on a tangent about new grounds when I thought it has already been shown there was no realistic chance of building a football stadium at Morden Wharf as it is owned by developers and is far more lucrative as housing that as a football ground.

If you wanted to distract attention from how the club is being run now and shift questions from the mismanagement to another concern this would be a great story to leak. No saying GhostofCharltonpast or Airman Brown are making this up but I remember this exact same story (Morden Wharf) coming up a couple of years ago and it proved to have no legs.

Agree totally with this. Let's not run down blind alleys when we should be focusing on the football management aspect of the club.

InspectorSands

I live in Charlton ward, and have just dropped one of the ward councillors a line to see what he knows.

Greenwich Council is as dysfunctional as CAFC and ward councillors - even cabinet members - are often the last to know about major plans, so I'm not expecting much. I'll slap in an FOI request, which should at least confirm or deny the existence of any application.

Swisdom

Don't bite my head of everyone - I love the Valley. I know it's our home and everything......

But is moving to a new all seater stadium that might just be slightly easier to get to and from really the end of the world?

killerandflash

msomerton said:

\you can rule out the move to the Greenwich Penisular. The Hong Kong developers only interested in luxury homes, hotels and offices. A football stadium would not fit into this.

Yes, to me it would make more sense if it was the other way round, i.e. you move AWAY from the location near the tube station and river, perfect for luxury apartments and move to a scruffy part of Charlton

InspectorSands

Swisdom said:

Don't bite my head of everyone - I love the Valley. I know it's our home and everything......

But is moving to a new all seater stadium that might just be slightly easier to get to and from really the end of the world?

It's not easier to get to - about three-quarters of a mile from North Greenwich tube station, currently only served by the 108 bus.

Addickted2TheReds

Swisdom said:

Don't bite my head of everyone - I love the Valley. I know it's our home and everything......

But is moving to a new all seater stadium that might just be slightly easier to get to and from really the end of the world?

Family forum mate, no need for that filth. :-)

killerandflash

To me the club shop is too small and awkwardly shaped...

3blokes

Ghostofcharltonpast said:

3blokes said:

The appointment of Karel F signals no ambition whatsoever on the football front so maybe this reveals what the real ambition is.
I think RD may well turn out to be our worst nightmare. Someone who has accrued so much through his businesses does not suddenly become an idiot overnight. Arrogant, pig headed maybe but not a fool. It is beginning to look very much as though his plans for the development of Charlton Athletic are very much going to be the polar opposite of what we want.
I am not sure what any of us can do to turn this business back into a football club, but I'm up for trying to help with future collective action.
What a mess football is in.

can i suggest you contact RBG with all your concerns,
im sure if you keep knocking they will eventually open up and will have to give some sought of answer.

Inspector Sands has just said he will do a FOI request to find out if any application has been made. Is that a good starting point? And without giving away anything you shouldn't, how do you know about all this?

Callumcafc

This is a distraction. Of course it's important, but there are wider issues that we can't just forget about.

se9addick

L

killerandflash said:

To me the club shop is too small and awkwardly shaped...

It's not the club shop itself, to me it represents the start of a very, very slippery slope.

SantaClaus

se9addick said:

L

killerandflash said:

To me the club shop is too small and awkwardly shaped...

It's not the club shop itself, to me it represents the start of a very, very slippery slope.

Harvey Gardens during a cold snap?

Airman Brown

I don't think this has anything to do with moving from The Valley, neither that it was leaked as a distraction. My source has no motive for that. I also understand, separately, that the club has been advised on planning matters by a former Greenwich councillor.

Given the council must decide any application and a formal process must be followed it's hardly realistic to expect it to be commenting.

InspectorSands

3blokes said:

Inspector Sands has just said he will do a FOI request to find out if any application has been made. Is that a good starting point? And without giving away anything you shouldn't, how do you know about all this?

I'd suggest that anybody who lives or works in Greenwich borough contacts their local councillors (this is very useful) regardless - since the council remains closely involved with what CAFC does, it's only right and proper that concerns are raised.

InspectorSands

Airman Brown said:

I don't think this has anything to do with moving from The Valley, neither that it was leaked as a distraction. My source has no motive for that. I also understand, separately, that the club has been advised on planning matters by a former Greenwich councillor.

Given the council must decide any application and a formal process must be followed it's hardly realistic to expect it to be commenting.

This could explain why former Dear Leader Chris Roberts (now a planning consultant) is still frequently seen around the ground, then.

Greenwich has been very happy to comment on planning matters when it suits (it's the only borough where the council leader has a direct role in deciding planning matters).

Henry Irving

Airman Brown said:

I don't think this has anything to do with moving from The Valley, neither that it was leaked as a distraction. My source has no motive for that. I also understand, separately, that the club has been advised on planning matters by a former Greenwich councillor.

Given the council must decide any application and a formal process must be followed it's hardly realistic to expect it to be commenting.

Agreed but it is a distraction as can be seen already above.

Moving or building a bigger and/or better club shop could make sense, it's hardly an ideal location or size.

Converting it into flats would also generate income although the past (something the current management doesn't understand) shows us that selling off bits of land doesn't work out well for the club in the longer term

AFKABartram

good work Inspector

razil

Henry Irving said:

Airman Brown said:

I don't think this has anything to do with moving from The Valley, neither that it was leaked as a distraction. My source has no motive for that. I also understand, separately, that the club has been advised on planning matters by a former Greenwich councillor.

Given the council must decide any application and a formal process must be followed it's hardly realistic to expect it to be commenting.

Agreed but it is a distraction as can be seen already above.

Moving or building a bigger and/or better club shop could make sense.

And I've only just though of this but wouldn't the current club shop make a wonderful museum

a combination of club shop, ticket office and museum, would make a lot of sense as I pointed out some time back on the FF, doubt this is the motivation tho somehow, would be nice to be proved wrong tho.

colthe3rd

So there is no evidence that this has happened? That first post says a planning application has been submitted, presumably if it had then it would be on the council's website by now as it is updated weekly.

PL54

Would the objection be the moving of the shop or the idea of flats or just an objection in general ?

InspectorSands

colthe3rd said:

So there is no evidence that this has happened? That first post says a planning application has been submitted, presumably if it had then it would be on the council's website by now as it is updated weekly.

It often takes ages for planning applications to go to consultation, which is when they're made public (notices on lamp posts, on the website, etc).

ElfsborgAddick

Swisdom said:

Don't bite my head of everyone - I love the Valley. I know it's our home and everything......

But is moving to a new all seater stadium that might just be slightly easier to get to and from really the end of the world?

Yes it is.

HantsAddick

Fanny Fanackapan said:

Thanks for posting this on a new thread, AFKA.

Everyone needs to read this IMHO.

And be very worried.....

Its worried me!

Garrymanilow

Swisdom said:

Don't bite my head of everyone - I love the Valley. I know it's our home and everything......

But is moving to a new all seater stadium that might just be slightly easier to get to and from really the end of the world?

In theory no, but under the current ownership I think it would be. RD and KM are trying to systematically dismantle the sense of connection we have with the club. They're alienating the older fans, under-investing in the squad and refusing to engage with us to the point where most people aren't even that bothered by our third consecutive 3-0 loss. Take away our connection with The Valley, the home that Charlton fans fought to get back to and is central in our history, then they'll have cut the last threads that make us Charlton the family club with a fan focus and will have transformed us into their little business. We'll be cut off. And when we do pipe up with our displeasure in the future we'll permanently be hit with 'why are you complaining about the squad, we built you a new stadium. Stop moaning about our 35th manager in 8 years, I know we're in the relegation zone again, but look at the stadium'.

If we were being run properly and had given the decision a lot of thought with fan input then I wouldn't be against a move. Having this absentee landlord of an owner sell our home would be too much for me though.

Elthamaddick

the shop as it stands is too small and a very poor design, as long as we are retaining a shop at the ground a bigger one would be much better

colthe3rd

InspectorSands said:

colthe3rd said:

So there is no evidence that this has happened? That first post says a planning application has been submitted, presumably if it had then it would be on the council's website by now as it is updated weekly.

It often takes ages for planning applications to go to consultation, which is when they're made public (notices on lamp posts, on the website, etc).

But on the website you can choose to search by validated or decided. Surely as soon as it is received and processed it's validated? Just playing Devil's advocate here as at the moment this is just hear say. It makes little sense to me why they would build 4 flats there anyway.

ken from bexley

InspectorSands said:

Airman Brown said:

I don't think this has anything to do with moving from The Valley, neither that it was leaked as a distraction. My source has no motive for that. I also understand, separately, that the club has been advised on planning matters by a former Greenwich councillor.

Given the council must decide any application and a formal process must be followed it's hardly realistic to expect it to be commenting.

This could explain why former Dear Leader Chris Roberts (now a planning consultant) is still frequently seen around the ground, then.

Greenwich has been very happy to comment on planning matters when it suits (it's the only borough where the council leader has a direct role in deciding planning matters).

Good idea about the FOI, but do not expect a quick reply...... by the way you cannot just turn up and see planning applications at Woolwich contact centre you have to make an appointment. The plans may also be with the case officer so you can be refused.

re: the move from the Valley, think this is as Henry states a bit of a smoke screen, but then in football/business there are no guarantees.
When I spoke to the local MP at the time of the last 'move idea' MP Raynsford, now stepped down was pretty certain that would not be what the 2 developers would want.
But then like most politicians they can ' bend with the passing wind'.

I can confirm that the shop does come within the boundaries of the ACV, as specified........ because I drew them up in the submission.
As I have stepped down from the trust board last week, it is better for them to comment.

Good spot, but let's focus on the matter in hand.........

Bournemouth Addick

My initial thoughts before they were so rudely left behind when the thread was moved from the other one... :-p

"Unless it's a high rise I can't believe there's anything like enough land there for someone with £100m's to bother with all the grief developing that site would entail."

I'm sticking with that for now. With everything else going on do they really want to push through a development for what in the scheme of things is loose change to RD?