We pleaded guilty, we got our punishment, regardless of what other chairman/managers/fans/santa claus may think of our punishment how can they possibly increase he charge?
[cite]Posted By: Mortain[/cite]I can't see how any points will be deducted now.
We pleaded guilty, we got our punishment, regardless of what other chairman/managers/fans/santa claus may think of our punishment how can they possibly increase he charge?
I also can't see how we can be sue'd as a club.
In court, you can lodge an appeal over punishment being "unduly lenient". Not sure whether it would apply to a football club/FA/Premier League as they seem to change the rules to suit themselves :-)
[quote][cite]Posted By: Mortain[/cite]I can't see how any points will be deducted now.
We pleaded guilty, we got our punishment, regardless of what other chairman/managers/fans/santa claus may think of our punishment how can they possibly increase he charge?
I also can't see how we can be sue'd as a club.[/quote]
Not that long ago our reserve right-back Osei Sankofa appealed against a red card and was suspended for an extra match for making a "frivolous" appeal.
The problem is if it goes above the EPL to the High Court. They may judge that the EPL didn't follow their own rule book properly and they could find in favour of the plaintiff, which ever club(s) that might be.
This has the potential to get very, very messy simply because of the amount of money involved means that Whelan and, even worse, Al Fayed will be prepared to chuck 5 million in legal fees on the off-chance they get their relegation over-turned.
Of course, if the EPL do a u-turn and dock them points, or are forced to by the courts, then West Ham will counter-appeal in the courts and the whole thing will just run and run.
I am not getting too worked up about it from a Charlton point of view because if we go down it will be because of the mis-management of our club, both on and off the field, not because of what the Spammers have been up to.
Looking for excuses now will probably deflect us from our real job of rebuilding.
i think we all need to get real, the FA will call an emergency meeting this weekend - flying in all the committee members at great expense & with utmost emergency
they will dismiss Wigan's *thoughts* on the matter as frivolous & instantly knock 1000000 points from their current tally.
They will award West Ham 55 points in compensation for the trauma incurred - thereby making them Premier League Champions, they will award Trevor Brooking with the proceeds from the FA Cup Final as recognition of his headed winning goal in 1980. They will then relegate Charlton, Fulham, Bolton, Reading, Watford and in fact every team bar Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea & West Ham. These 5 remaining teams will then face each other 26 times next season with all games moved to 2am on a Wednesday morning for the Chinese TV audience. The top 5 teams in this mini league will then go through to a round-robin where each team will play each other at the new Wembley Stadium 4 times per week, every week until 2012 for the right to meet each other in a sudden death cup knockout with no replays or extra time so not to upset TV advertisers.
The rest of the league can get stuffed as far as they are concerned.
On a serious note, if West Ham stay up and are in, say 15th or 16th place, I can see all those clubs within 3 points (and goal difference) suing because the finishing place in the league affects the prize money.
At something like £500k per place up the league, you just know someone's gonna sue.
the times quotes whelan as saying at least three clubs are taking legal advice...even mentions middlesboro...the shit is definitely going to hit the fan on this the second the season is over if west ham dont go down...and if that happens you have to wonder whether next season can start if the matter is not sorted by next august...
[cite]Posted By: ltgtr[/cite]the times quotes whelan as saying at least three clubs are taking legal advice...even mentions middlesboro...the shit is definitely going to hit the fan on this the second the season is over if west ham dont go down...
and if West Ham do go down i fully expect them to appeal the judgment and try to get the fine reduced.
[cite]Posted By: ltgtr[/cite]the times quotes whelan as saying at least three clubs are taking legal advice...even mentions middlesboro...the shit is definitely going to hit the fan on this the second the season is over if west ham dont go down...
and if West Ham do go down i fully expect them to appeal the judgment and try to get the fine reduced.
As Mortain said though, how can they appeal if they pleaded guilty?
I may be wrong but I think that although pleading guilty they reserved the right to appeal if they thought the punishment was too harsh, this was considered to be an unofficial reason why there was no points deduction
I think Mr Whelan is setting himself up for a big fall! He claims that six clubs have agreed to share the costs to have action taken against West Ham. So lets assume Wigan do relegated does anyone really think that Fulham, Sheff utd, CAFC, Watford? and 2 other clubs who will be safe in the prem are then going to say " here you are Wigan, here's our chunk of cash to fight your corner"
The Clubs that stay up will forget about it and the team that goes down 3rd bottom if the Ammers Survive will moan about it, but on there own!
This is Whelan trying to destabilise West Ham at crunch time. And in the end nothing will come of it.
[cite]Posted By: son of selhurst[/cite]I think Mr Whelan is setting himself up for a big fall! He claims that six clubs have agreed to share the costs to have action taken against West Ham.
So lets assume Wigan do relegated does anyone really think that Fulham, Sheff utd, CAFC, Watford? and 2 other clubs who will be safe in the prem are then going to say " here you are Wigan, here's our chunk of cash to fight your corner"
The Clubs that stay up will forget about it and the team that goes down 3rd bottom if the Ammers Survive will moan about it, but on there own!
This is Whelan trying to destabilise West Ham at crunch time. And in the end nothing will come of it.
Agreed as each club makes themself safe they'll all pull out one by one.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]As Mortain said though, how can they appeal if they pleaded guilty?
They can appeal against the severity of the fine.
If you're asking how can a 3rd party appeal when WH pleaded guilty, then yes, they can.
They won't be appealing the fact that WH where found guilty, they will be pleading the leniency of the punishment, which anyone is entitled to do if it has an adverse affect on them. It happens quite often, two parties will be in a dispute and one of the parties/a third party can appeal the punishment.
The problem the EPL have is they have not followed any of their own precedents, in a court of law those precedents would have to be seen as case law, which is something very hard to follow, unless there is a further law(rule), that suits the incident perfectly, in this case I do not believe there is.
The main problem is what SoS pointed out, no team that survives about West Ham is actually going to care, so they certainly won't be wanting to throw money at something that will not really affect them a great deal. The only thing that could have happened is an agreement between that six clubs Wheelan is talking about that they enter the appeal together, splitting the costs regardless of who goes down.
If clubs are willing to get involved in this there could be big problems for the EPL, even if a court is to find in their favour I wouldn't expect something of this size to be over in a couple of weeks, leaving several clubs and quite possibly the entire league in no man's land.
The league have been out of order here so I really hope that a group of clubs agree to work together on this, including us. If there are really six then obviously includes clubs not going down. Agree that West Ham and another club could be left in limbo, so action would need to be rapid.
The charges were made in January, the way this has been allowed to drift on so late is another scandal in itself.
[cite]Posted By: PeanutsMolloy[/cite]It could be argued that a record fine of 5.5million is not lenient.
Only by a moron[/quote]
Nice well thought out response. But West Ham would argue that a record fine is itself a ground breaking punishment.
One thing that does not make sense is that West Ham were told they could not play Tevez against Wigan unless he was registered correctly, which suggest's he was not West Ham's player. So by sorting out his registration surely that means West Ham signed Tevez outside the transfer window.
[cite]Posted By: PeanutsMolloy[/cite]It could be argued that a record fine of 5.5million is not lenient.
Only by a moron
Nice well thought out response. But West Ham would argue that a record fine is itself a ground breaking punishment.
One thing that does not make sense is that West Ham were told they could not play Tevez against Wigan unless he was registered correctly, which suggest's he was not West Ham's player. So by sorting out his registration surely that means West Ham signed Tevez outside the transfer window.
that seems logical to me...in the extreme you have to wonder whether it was the threat that a legal appeal by west ham would stop the next season starting that brought about the fine only decision but by not deducting the points from them the same situation still exists because if west ham are not relegated and the fourth from bottom club does go to court next season's premiership and championship might have to start without the two teams...
[quote][cite]Posted By: son of selhurst[/cite]One thing that does not make sense is that West Ham were told they could not play Tevez against Wigan unless he was registered correctly, which suggest's he was not West Ham's player. So by sorting out his registration surely that means West Ham signed Tevez outside the transfer window.[/quote]
Would that mean though that he was not registered with any club so in effect no transfer took place.
Comments
Fayed wants to sue as well and we all know he loves a court case.
We pleaded guilty, we got our punishment, regardless of what other chairman/managers/fans/santa claus may think of our punishment how can they possibly increase he charge?
I also can't see how we can be sue'd as a club.
In court, you can lodge an appeal over punishment being "unduly lenient". Not sure whether it would apply to a football club/FA/Premier League as they seem to change the rules to suit themselves :-)
We pleaded guilty, we got our punishment, regardless of what other chairman/managers/fans/santa claus may think of our punishment how can they possibly increase he charge?
I also can't see how we can be sue'd as a club.[/quote]
Not that long ago our reserve right-back Osei Sankofa appealed against a red card and was suspended for an extra match for making a "frivolous" appeal.
The problem is if it goes above the EPL to the High Court. They may judge that the EPL didn't follow their own rule book properly and they could find in favour of the plaintiff, which ever club(s) that might be.
Of course, if the EPL do a u-turn and dock them points, or are forced to by the courts, then West Ham will counter-appeal in the courts and the whole thing will just run and run.
I am not getting too worked up about it from a Charlton point of view because if we go down it will be because of the mis-management of our club, both on and off the field, not because of what the Spammers have been up to.
Looking for excuses now will probably deflect us from our real job of rebuilding.
they will dismiss Wigan's *thoughts* on the matter as frivolous & instantly knock 1000000 points from their current tally.
They will award West Ham 55 points in compensation for the trauma incurred - thereby making them Premier League Champions, they will award Trevor Brooking with the proceeds from the FA Cup Final as recognition of his headed winning goal in 1980. They will then relegate Charlton, Fulham, Bolton, Reading, Watford and in fact every team bar Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea & West Ham. These 5 remaining teams will then face each other 26 times next season with all games moved to 2am on a Wednesday morning for the Chinese TV audience. The top 5 teams in this mini league will then go through to a round-robin where each team will play each other at the new Wembley Stadium 4 times per week, every week until 2012 for the right to meet each other in a sudden death cup knockout with no replays or extra time so not to upset TV advertisers.
The rest of the league can get stuffed as far as they are concerned.
At something like £500k per place up the league, you just know someone's gonna sue.
and if West Ham do go down i fully expect them to appeal the judgment and try to get the fine reduced.
Agree Ltgtr, but as Ormiston says, we need not to be deflected from the most important task of rebuilding.
indeed to sue the premier league, i would!
As Mortain said though, how can they appeal if they pleaded guilty?
They can appeal against the severity of the fine.
So lets assume Wigan do relegated does anyone really think that Fulham, Sheff utd, CAFC, Watford? and 2 other clubs who will be safe in the prem are then going to say " here you are Wigan, here's our chunk of cash to fight your corner"
The Clubs that stay up will forget about it and the team that goes down 3rd bottom if the Ammers Survive will moan about it, but on there own!
This is Whelan trying to destabilise West Ham at crunch time. And in the end nothing will come of it.
Agreed as each club makes themself safe they'll all pull out one by one.
If you're asking how can a 3rd party appeal when WH pleaded guilty, then yes, they can.
They won't be appealing the fact that WH where found guilty, they will be pleading the leniency of the punishment, which anyone is entitled to do if it has an adverse affect on them. It happens quite often, two parties will be in a dispute and one of the parties/a third party can appeal the punishment.
The problem the EPL have is they have not followed any of their own precedents, in a court of law those precedents would have to be seen as case law, which is something very hard to follow, unless there is a further law(rule), that suits the incident perfectly, in this case I do not believe there is.
The main problem is what SoS pointed out, no team that survives about West Ham is actually going to care, so they certainly won't be wanting to throw money at something that will not really affect them a great deal. The only thing that could have happened is an agreement between that six clubs Wheelan is talking about that they enter the appeal together, splitting the costs regardless of who goes down.
If clubs are willing to get involved in this there could be big problems for the EPL, even if a court is to find in their favour I wouldn't expect something of this size to be over in a couple of weeks, leaving several clubs and quite possibly the entire league in no man's land.
which is a real shame, and i thought we had a bit more balls when it come down to what's right and what's wrong with football.
The charges were made in January, the way this has been allowed to drift on so late is another scandal in itself.
It could also be argued that the EPL have done this deliberately in order to give WH such a lenient punishment.
It could be argued that a record fine of 5.5million is not lenient.
Only by a moron
Only by a moron[/quote]
Nice well thought out response. But West Ham would argue that a record fine is itself a ground breaking punishment.
One thing that does not make sense is that West Ham were told they could not play Tevez against Wigan unless he was registered correctly, which suggest's he was not West Ham's player. So by sorting out his registration surely that means West Ham signed Tevez outside the transfer window.
that seems logical to me...in the extreme you have to wonder whether it was the threat that a legal appeal by west ham would stop the next season starting that brought about the fine only decision but by not deducting the points from them the same situation still exists because if west ham are not relegated and the fourth from bottom club does go to court next season's premiership and championship might have to start without the two teams...
Would that mean though that he was not registered with any club so in effect no transfer took place.