People can show they're unhappy AFKA, of course. For me I prefer to be part of something that has a constructive aim to it. I don't think the club are in any doubt how unhappy we are.
So what aim does the Trust have that is constructive for Charlton rather than Duchatalet and Miere? Nice cosy dialogue? The Trust should be leading the physical protest.
Well I wasn't speaking for the Trust, but frankly the Trust has managed to get the dialogue that was the mandate of the public meeting, the October survey and the Trust AGM. It is a bit incongruous to then be leading "physical protests" as well (notwithstanding that we'd then be criticised for needing to be leading everything).
More to the point, why do you caricature dialogue as 'nice cosy'? Why on earth would it preclude addressing the issues that fans are protesting about?
What ideas were carried forward from the trust agm? Lots of ideas of protests were debated, which ones have the Trust backed?
People can show they're unhappy AFKA, of course. For me I prefer to be part of something that has a constructive aim to it. I don't think the club are in any doubt how unhappy we are.
So what aim does the Trust have that is constructive for Charlton rather than Duchatalet and Miere? Nice cosy dialogue? The Trust should be leading the physical protest.
Well I wasn't speaking for the Trust, but frankly the Trust has managed to get the dialogue that was the mandate of the public meeting, the October survey and the Trust AGM. It is a bit incongruous to then be leading "physical protests" as well (notwithstanding that we'd then be criticised for needing to be leading everything).
More to the point, why do you caricature dialogue as 'nice cosy'? Why on earth would it preclude addressing the issues that fans are protesting about?
Trouble is mate is whether it is addressing the issues fans are protesting about. We all agree that viewpoints are split, that people want different things, it is completely impossible to get right in an 'approach' sense etc. So I'm not digging out here.
But from the feedback from Steve's last meeting with KM, RM, the focus was on non-football relating committees; target 20k (which now seems to be a badly designed tick box Fans forum for a different night), a revisit of the Fans Forum, and some maybe potential strategic development group, which isn't really clear what would be diff from the Target 20k group.
All very admirable steps forward and all that malarkey, but nothing that challenges on the strategy and approach that delivers us Fraeye's, LePoint's, Bergditch's etc, or understanding who delivers that. Nor is it addressing the attitude that is displayed out to supporters. Or the feeling that attempts for an approved approach are not genuine.
Like when they announced over six weeks ago now that Fraeye "will take temporary charge of the Addicks’ first-team while the club undertake the process to appoint a Head Coach on a permanent basis." Lot of progress seems to have been made there in the 4 out of 6 defeats we have seen since, hasn't it?
Those are the reasons I suspect those standing in the car park on Saturday. Not for anything that the Trust rightly / wrongly seem to be focussing on.
This part of the discussion arose from my expressing a personal view on why I wouldn't be present at the West Stand car park protest once again. As ever, people seem incapable of separating that from official Trust policy. People also seem incapable of recognising that isn't the same thing as saying it shouldn't happen. It's not for me.
I don't see how you can divorce football matters from, say, Target 20k since football results are a key driver for attendances. That's not to say that Target 20k will ever make football decisions for the club, but it might and should be able to influence an approach that will get the fans united behind it. No strategy is perfect, but certainly the current scattergun approach that sees the squad overhauled every year with another set of inadequate players isn't building attendances. What youngster wants to watch players they can't identify with? They will be lost. Is mid-table an aspiration that will reach 20k in the ground every week? And so on.
It's taken all year to get to where we are today. From the public meeting, various supporters meetings, the fans meeting, spell it out, West Stand protests, and so on. All have played their part, despite - as you observe - perhaps the most disparate viewpoints among Charlton fans (and some of the most disappointing in-fighting) in our history. Perhaps now is the time to focus on the things that unite rather than divide?
It's good that the club are finally entering dialogue, it may take a little while for that to become effective dialogue but from little acorns and all that. I agree that protests have hardly harmed those efforts and have helped bring some urgency, and the SIO campaign some focus. As Steve also said, now is the time for action not lip service - and we'll see shortly whether the club are serious about that.
Looks like there will be another protest on Saturday - it's starting to do the rounds on Twitter...
I'm all for it, but would urge fans to stay away from songs pertaining to gender and Belgium. They do us no favours and just give the club ammo.
Who'll be going?
I'll be there with my 'Belgian Women out' banner. ;-)
I'm still not going to attend this type of protest for the same reasons as before, but I urge the same thing Joe - stick to the message and avoid giving them any excuse to dismiss it.
It would probably help if someone was able to organise it a bit.
It's obvious why the trust do not want to get involved, but why come on a forum and say you are not getting involved? If you have nowt to say regarding this, say nowt
There I go forgetting the rules about not being allowed to post as myself anymore. Perhaps I can run all my future ones past you to make sure they're sufficiently Trust relevant?
Looks like there will be another protest on Saturday - it's starting to do the rounds on Twitter...
I'm all for it, but would urge fans to stay away from songs pertaining to gender and Belgium. They do us no favours and just give the club ammo.
Who'll be going?
I'll be there with my 'Belgian Women out' banner. ;-)
I'm still not going to attend this type of protest for the same reasons as before, but I urge the same thing Joe - stick to the message and avoid giving them any excuse to dismiss it.
It would probably help if someone was able to organise it a bit.
It's obvious why the trust do not want to get involved, but why come on a forum and say you are not getting involved? If you have nowt to say regarding this, say nowt
There I go forgetting the rules about not being allowed to post as myself anymore. Perhaps I can run all my future ones past you to make sure they're sufficiently Trust relevant?
Post what you like, no ideas what rules you refer to. But as a Trust member I ask you as a Trust Board member that we are still first Charlton fans and at this time should we as supporters show unity when wanting the best for our club and not dig one another out? Or do we need to put KM's feelings first?
Don't blame it on Luzon, Don't blame it on Peeters! Don't blame it on Riga, blame it on Meire...she just can't, she just can't, she just can't tell the truth....
Meire, Meire, wherever you may be, you're an embarrassment to the Charlton family but it could be worse, you could be Duchatelet then we would all stop coming to The Valley
We all agree, Yann was better than Parsley. We all agree Hamer was better than Thuram. We all agree Stephens was better than Baaaa. We all agree Gomez was better than Sarr. We all agree Wiggins was better than Bergdich.
We all agree Powell was better than Riga. We all agree Riga was better than Peeters. We all agree Peeters speaks better than Luzon. We all agree that Luzon was better than Freaye. We all agree that anyone's better than Meire...
Looks like there will be another protest on Saturday - it's starting to do the rounds on Twitter...
I'm all for it, but would urge fans to stay away from songs pertaining to gender and Belgium. They do us no favours and just give the club ammo.
Who'll be going?
I'll be there with my 'Belgian Women out' banner. ;-)
I'm still not going to attend this type of protest for the same reasons as before, but I urge the same thing Joe - stick to the message and avoid giving them any excuse to dismiss it.
It would probably help if someone was able to organise it a bit.
It's obvious why the trust do not want to get involved, but why come on a forum and say you are not getting involved? If you have nowt to say regarding this, say nowt
There I go forgetting the rules about not being allowed to post as myself anymore. Perhaps I can run all my future ones past you to make sure they're sufficiently Trust relevant?
Post what you like, no ideas what rules you refer to. But as a Trust member I ask you as a Trust Board member that we are still first Charlton fans and at this time should we as supporters show unity when wanting the best for our club and not dig one another out? Or do we need to put KM's feelings first?
I wasn't speaking on behalf of the Trust, I was expressing a personal opinion and suggesting the protest would be improved with some organisation. Getting dug out for being on the Trust board I guess I accept in this strange time of being a Charlton fan, but it was a personal and constructive observation.
What happens on these threads is that the opportunists try to extract an official trust position out of every comment I might make, and whatever capital serves their purpose from the latest circular argument. We're not backwards in coming forwards but we're also not going to conduct a running commentary on Charlton Life of every single thing we do. We don't meet every week, we work full time jobs and have families.
I know this stuff is important, but we're doing what we've agreed with our members to do. If dialogue doesn't result in action then we will be doing something else but as we said at AGM we need to exhaust that option.
None of that means I'm saying the protests shouldn't continue. I'm just saying personally I won't be supporting this one. That's me Rich, not me CAStrust treasurer.
If you could sign off each post , email , Christmas card , graffiti tag and let us know if it's rikofold as in Rich or rikofold as in CAStrust treasurer that would be much appreciated
Looks like there will be another protest on Saturday - it's starting to do the rounds on Twitter...
I'm all for it, but would urge fans to stay away from songs pertaining to gender and Belgium. They do us no favours and just give the club ammo.
Who'll be going?
I'll be there with my 'Belgian Women out' banner. ;-)
I'm still not going to attend this type of protest for the same reasons as before, but I urge the same thing Joe - stick to the message and avoid giving them any excuse to dismiss it.
It would probably help if someone was able to organise it a bit.
It's obvious why the trust do not want to get involved, but why come on a forum and say you are not getting involved? If you have nowt to say regarding this, say nowt
Bit harsh mate imo. You only really generate debate when people offer differing views. And @rikofold should be able to post his own views and not have them misinterpreted as Trust policy etc
Anna Kissed wins the award for literally the worst 4 songs ever.
Will be there to have a ganders
Oh don't worry, i think I'm in the running, I can't get that tv ad tune with Joe Hart out of my head at the moment, you know the shampoo one, I think The song was by no more limits.
No no, No no no no, No no, no no No no , No more Roland.
I might be a bit a bit out on my number of no's, or indeed the song might be a bit of a no no on Saturday.
On the other hand, Athletico's are brilliant! Although I would change the line in blame it on the Meire to she just can't tell us the truth. Comes together better I reckon.
Other than that small point :-), massive bravo. If you promise to sing them at the protest, you can count me in.
People can show they're unhappy AFKA, of course. For me I prefer to be part of something that has a constructive aim to it. I don't think the club are in any doubt how unhappy we are.
So what aim does the Trust have that is constructive for Charlton rather than Duchatalet and Miere? Nice cosy dialogue? The Trust should be leading the physical protest.
Well I wasn't speaking for the Trust, but frankly the Trust has managed to get the dialogue that was the mandate of the public meeting, the October survey and the Trust AGM. It is a bit incongruous to then be leading "physical protests" as well (notwithstanding that we'd then be criticised for needing to be leading everything).
More to the point, why do you caricature dialogue as 'nice cosy'? Why on earth would it preclude addressing the issues that fans are protesting about?
Trouble is mate is whether it is addressing the issues fans are protesting about. We all agree that viewpoints are split, that people want different things, it is completely impossible to get right in an 'approach' sense etc. So I'm not digging out here.
But from the feedback from Steve's last meeting with KM, RM, the focus was on non-football relating committees; target 20k (which now seems to be a badly designed tick box Fans forum for a different night), a revisit of the Fans Forum, and some maybe potential strategic development group, which isn't really clear what would be diff from the Target 20k group.
All very admirable steps forward and all that malarkey, but nothing that challenges on the strategy and approach that delivers us Fraeye's, LePoint's, Bergditch's etc, or understanding who delivers that. Nor is it addressing the attitude that is displayed out to supporters. Or the feeling that attempts for an approved approach are not genuine.
Like when they announced over six weeks ago now that Fraeye "will take temporary charge of the Addicks’ first-team while the club undertake the process to appoint a Head Coach on a permanent basis." Lot of progress seems to have been made there in the 4 out of 6 defeats we have seen since, hasn't it?
Those are the reasons I suspect those standing in the car park on Saturday. Not for anything that the Trust rightly / wrongly seem to be focussing on.
People can show they're unhappy AFKA, of course. For me I prefer to be part of something that has a constructive aim to it. I don't think the club are in any doubt how unhappy we are.
So what aim does the Trust have that is constructive for Charlton rather than Duchatalet and Miere? Nice cosy dialogue? The Trust should be leading the physical protest.
Well I wasn't speaking for the Trust, but frankly the Trust has managed to get the dialogue that was the mandate of the public meeting, the October survey and the Trust AGM. It is a bit incongruous to then be leading "physical protests" as well (notwithstanding that we'd then be criticised for needing to be leading everything).
More to the point, why do you caricature dialogue as 'nice cosy'? Why on earth would it preclude addressing the issues that fans are protesting about?
Trouble is mate is whether it is addressing the issues fans are protesting about. We all agree that viewpoints are split, that people want different things, it is completely impossible to get right in an 'approach' sense etc. So I'm not digging out here.
But from the feedback from Steve's last meeting with KM, RM, the focus was on non-football relating committees; target 20k (which now seems to be a badly designed tick box Fans forum for a different night), a revisit of the Fans Forum, and some maybe potential strategic development group, which isn't really clear what would be diff from the Target 20k group.
All very admirable steps forward and all that malarkey, but nothing that challenges on the strategy and approach that delivers us Fraeye's, LePoint's, Bergditch's etc, or understanding who delivers that. Nor is it addressing the attitude that is displayed out to supporters. Or the feeling that attempts for an approved approach are not genuine.
Like when they announced over six weeks ago now that Fraeye "will take temporary charge of the Addicks’ first-team while the club undertake the process to appoint a Head Coach on a permanent basis." Lot of progress seems to have been made there in the 4 out of 6 defeats we have seen since, hasn't it?
Those are the reasons I suspect those standing in the car park on Saturday. Not for anything that the Trust rightly / wrongly seem to be focussing on.
This part of the discussion arose from my expressing a personal view on why I wouldn't be present at the West Stand car park protest once again. As ever, people seem incapable of separating that from official Trust policy. People also seem incapable of recognising that isn't the same thing as saying it shouldn't happen. It's not for me.
I don't see how you can divorce football matters from, say, Target 20k since football results are a key driver for attendances. That's not to say that Target 20k will ever make football decisions for the club, but it might and should be able to influence an approach that will get the fans united behind it. No strategy is perfect, but certainly the current scattergun approach that sees the squad overhauled every year with another set of inadequate players isn't building attendances. What youngster wants to watch players they can't identify with? They will be lost. Is mid-table an aspiration that will reach 20k in the ground every week? And so on.
It's taken all year to get to where we are today. From the public meeting, various supporters meetings, the fans meeting, spell it out, West Stand protests, and so on. All have played their part, despite - as you observe - perhaps the most disparate viewpoints among Charlton fans (and some of the most disappointing in-fighting) in our history. Perhaps now is the time to focus on the things that unite rather than divide?
It's good that the club are finally entering dialogue, it may take a little while for that to become effective dialogue but from little acorns and all that. I agree that protests have hardly harmed those efforts and have helped bring some urgency, and the SIO campaign some focus. As Steve also said, now is the time for action not lip service - and we'll see shortly whether the club are serious about that.
(We seem to have digressed somewhat from topic).
IMO the trust would be getting a much bigger positive response from fans if it would focus on what is clearly the biggest problem....the on the pitch performance, which encompasses player and manager recruitment.
Whilst the cosy dialogue they are having with the board may be nice, and the steps they have taken may be positive it is clear from the Target 20,000 thread that not many people care about that at the moment. To me, a Target 20,000 group is something you set up when you have steady football and steady attendances, which leaves room for improvement. That is not us, we have got diabolical football (and footballing decisions) and falling attendances.
Get it right in the area that really matters to the vast majority of fans, then care about the 'glossy' touches.
People can show they're unhappy AFKA, of course. For me I prefer to be part of something that has a constructive aim to it. I don't think the club are in any doubt how unhappy we are.
I don't doubt the club realise that fans are unhappy but how long have we gone on and on about 'meaningful' dialogue? IMO KM/RD are quite happy to placate the fans with a bit more dialogue about having dialogue. It's like the Emperor's new clothes tale - believeing that KM/RD are now starting a dialogue - but they're just stringing you along! THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES ON!
If we don't continue to protest then nothing will change - just yet another load of b*llocks about dialogue when it's never going to happen. 'We hear what you're saying', 'our door is always open'. FFS.
I shall be there on Saturday at the protest, wearing my black and white scarf and not buying anything in the ground. I will hold up any poster / banner necessary, sing 'we want our Charlton back' etc so RM/KM continue to know that I am unhappy with them and not now placated by the sniff of a bloody dialogue. Get these useless f*ckers out before they totally destroy my club.
I support the trust. Anyway Saturday. The Sheffield Wednesday directors could be seen with Katrien through the window from the car park. If we assume Cellini will be there then we should invite the Leeds fans to join us.
Sadly the trust have made themselves totally irrelevant. As has been earlier stated, they should be heading these protests. They should be fighting for the future of our club, using their numbers to force change. Instead they have nice quiet meetings with KM where she palms them a nice little sideways target 20000 swerve for them to get their teeth into. It's pretty sad to be honest.
I shall be at the disorganised no point protest and actually doing something to voice my concerns in a way km may understand. (And no I won't be screaming racist sexist songs just standing up for what I believe in)
People can show they're unhappy AFKA, of course. For me I prefer to be part of something that has a constructive aim to it. I don't think the club are in any doubt how unhappy we are.
I don't doubt the club realise that fans are unhappy but how long have we gone on and on about 'meaningful' dialogue? IMO KM/RD are quite happy to placate the fans with a bit more dialogue about having dialogue. It's like the Emperor's new clothes tale - believeing that KM/RD are now starting a dialogue - but they're just stringing you along! THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES ON!
If we don't continue to protest then nothing will change - just yet another load of b*llocks about dialogue when it's never going to happen. 'We hear what you're saying', 'our door is always open'. FFS.
I shall be there on Saturday at the protest, wearing my black and white scarf and not buying anything in the ground. I will hold up any poster / banner necessary, sing 'we want our Charlton back' etc so RM/KM continue to know that I am unhappy with them and not now placated by the sniff of a bloody dialogue. Get these useless f*ckers out before they totally destroy my club.
Sadly the trust have made themselves totally irrelevant. As has been earlier stated, they should be heading these protests. They should be fighting for the future of our club, using their numbers to force change. Instead they have nice quiet meetings with KM where she palms them a nice little sideways target 20000 swerve for them to get their teeth into. It's pretty sad to be honest.
I shall be at the disorganised no point protest and actually doing something to voice my concerns in a way km may understand. (And no I won't be screaming racist sexist songs just standing up for what I believe in)
Sadly the trust have made themselves totally irrelevant. As has been earlier stated, they should be heading these protests. They should be fighting for the future of our club, using their numbers to force change. Instead they have nice quiet meetings with KM where she palms them a nice little sideways target 20000 swerve for them to get their teeth into. It's pretty sad to be honest.
I shall be at the disorganised no point protest and actually doing something to voice my concerns in a way km may understand. (And no I won't be screaming racist sexist songs just standing up for what I believe in)
Well said that man. Cast,to me, are irrelevant. This protest and all the other protests are the direct action that we need to get RD and KM to change.
My view completely. KM herself said that Duchalet owns the club, and will do things his way. As if it needed stating. he has gone on to do just that, and with horrible consequences off and particularly on the pitch. Rikofold has said that his members have voted for dialogue, and to me that's a fair enough point in it's way. However, what annoys the fans is player recruitment and manager recruitment, and the terrible state our club is in as a result. I cannot think of a profesional club in Europe where a fans trust would be able to enter into those sort of decisions, but the fans are leaving in droves because THAT is what is making saturday at the Valley such a wretched experience. Dialogue with KM may mean a vote on what color the next sofá is, or how many drum majorettes are needed for half time entertainment, but that won't turn the club around. And KM/RD won't let the dialogue go further. A bit long winded (sorry) but that is why for me, the Trust are also irrelevant at the moment.
My view completely. KM herself said that Duchalet owns the club, and will do things his way. As if it needed stating. he has gone on to do just that, and with horrible consequences off and particularly on the pitch. Rikofold has said that his members have voted for dialogue, and to me that's a fair enough point in it's way. However, what annoys the fans is player recruitment and manager recruitment, and the terrible state our club is in as a result. I cannot think of a profesional club in Europe where a fans trust would be able to enter into those sort of decisions, but the fans are leaving in droves because THAT is what is making saturday at the Valley such a wretched experience. Dialogue with KM may mean a vote on what color the next sofá is, or how many drum majorettes are needed for half time entertainment, but that won't turn the club around. And KM/RD won't let the dialogue go further. A bit long winded (sorry) but that is why for me, the Trust are also irrelevant at the moment.
I think this is a key point. Someone will talk about fan-owned clubs, I expect, but fans should never expect to have detailed input to the football side.
Unfortunately we are in a situation where most aspects of the club are being messed up by hopeless management, but the football problem is the main one. Fans can't deal with that through talks. They can only try to force change by making a lot of noise.
Looks like there will be another protest on Saturday - it's starting to do the rounds on Twitter...
I'm all for it, but would urge fans to stay away from songs pertaining to gender and Belgium. They do us no favours and just give the club ammo.
Who'll be going?
I'll be there with my 'Belgian Women out' banner. ;-)
I'm still not going to attend this type of protest for the same reasons as before, but I urge the same thing Joe - stick to the message and avoid giving them any excuse to dismiss it.
It would probably help if someone was able to organise it a bit.
It's obvious why the trust do not want to get involved, but why come on a forum and say you are not getting involved? If you have nowt to say regarding this, say nowt
There I go forgetting the rules about not being allowed to post as myself anymore. Perhaps I can run all my future ones past you to make sure they're sufficiently Trust relevant?
Post what you like, no ideas what rules you refer to. But as a Trust member I ask you as a Trust Board member that we are still first Charlton fans and at this time should we as supporters show unity when wanting the best for our club and not dig one another out? Or do we need to put KM's feelings first?
I wasn't speaking on behalf of the Trust, I was expressing a personal opinion and suggesting the protest would be improved with some organisation. Getting dug out for being on the Trust board I guess I accept in this strange time of being a Charlton fan, but it was a personal and constructive observation.
What happens on these threads is that the opportunists try to extract an official trust position out of every comment I might make, and whatever capital serves their purpose from the latest circular argument. We're not backwards in coming forwards but we're also not going to conduct a running commentary on Charlton Life of every single thing we do. We don't meet every week, we work full time jobs and have families.
I know this stuff is important, but we're doing what we've agreed with our members to do. If dialogue doesn't result in action then we will be doing something else but as we said at AGM we need to exhaust that option.
None of that means I'm saying the protests shouldn't continue. I'm just saying personally I won't be supporting this one. That's me Rich, not me CAStrust treasurer.
We asked for dialogue this time last year. They refused. 12 wasteful months later we are in the exact same (if not worse) position, negotiating for 'meaningful dialogue'. Now that we have this dialogue concerns are once again been deflected onto ludicrous pipe dreams (e.g. T20K) instead of addressing fundamental issues.
Have you seen anything to suggest they are/will be changing their approach? At what point do you say 'meaningful dialogue' has failed, we need to do something else?
Too many people using the protests to get there jobs back and/or feel like they are important again to CAFC. As a trust member i honestly can say i'm not happy at all with them and this Target 20k nonsense! we have bigger fish to fry and i thought the trust knew this.
Where at the woolwich meeting was it discussed the target 20k? it seems to have come from thin air and only benefits Rolland's pockets!
I will continue to protest about the bad decision making of the board. In my mind it isn't just KM and RD that is to blame, it is every level of management, the club is a joke.
Sadly the trust have made themselves totally irrelevant. As has been earlier stated, they should be heading these protests. They should be fighting for the future of our club, using their numbers to force change. Instead they have nice quiet meetings with KM where she palms them a nice little sideways target 20000 swerve for them to get their teeth into. It's pretty sad to be honest.
I shall be at the disorganised no point protest and actually doing something to voice my concerns in a way km may understand. (And no I won't be screaming racist sexist songs just standing up for what I believe in)
There is a great difference between supporting the team and supporting the club. I will always support the team, but I cannot support the club and the people running it.
What I don't understand are those who blindly defend the club and the way it operates through some misguided sense of elitism, as if they are "better" fans than those who make up the ever-growing despondent faction of our core support. They ain't.
And that isn't supposed to be a snide remark at anyone in particular. It's a general comment.
Sorry, but I support the Trust at the moment. We asked them to enter dialogue and they are doing just that and it would make it quite difficult to visibly protest outside the West Stand at the same time. That doesn't prevent the rest of us getting organised with various protests as has happened at the last two home matches.
However, I am also looking for an early decision by the Trust on whether KM/RD are accepting the dire position their actions and management have put the club in and specifically have plans to remedy the situation. If the Trust believe that they are just being kidded along then they must disengage from the talks and publically join the protests. I know the Trust would like to play the long game but the current crises is so severe that it must be addressed now (not in 3 months time), even at the cost of temporarily damaging long term relationships.
I think this is how the Trust see it but can't come right out and say it - but I could be wrong !
My protest is I am not going to the game. It is amazing that RD and KM can continue. I slightly understand RD as he owns the club and has money invested. KM is playing a major part in ruining the club. Unsuitable players, unsuitable managers, pathetic gimmicks, perceived apathy towards the fans. There is no confidence in management and she is the CEO who put the management there. She has to go before any recovery of confidence or even support for the club can begin.
My protest is I am not going to the game. It is amazing that RD and KM can continue. I slightly understand RD as he owns the club and has money invested. KM is playing a major part in ruining the club. Unsuitable players, unsuitable managers, pathetic gimmicks, perceived apathy towards the fans. There is no confidence in management and she is the CEO who put the management there. She has to go before any recovery of confidence or even support for the club can begin.
With each passing week she is becoming horribly more exposed. I sit quite close to the Directors area, and it was actually quite good to see how involved she got in the games and how happy she looked when we scored, she really does celebrate. However none of this enthusiasm or passion translates into being qualified to run a 2nd tier English football club with a core support of 20,000
So many well documented screw ups, very strange and aloof personal stance to interacting with the fans (I believe Watford away is still very much in her mind). We just need a better leader and leadership team. Yet if she goes we are only just going to get another version of her. RD will never say look at that guy that's just resigned from the Norwich board for example.
This is why, and also the 2 years of for me, going nowhere, we need a new owner.
Yes we've had his financial backing, I've said many times I am grateful for, but with each passing week, it's clear that nothing is clear about our club, and to me that makes it clear, he genuinely doesn't have a clue
Comments
I don't see how you can divorce football matters from, say, Target 20k since football results are a key driver for attendances. That's not to say that Target 20k will ever make football decisions for the club, but it might and should be able to influence an approach that will get the fans united behind it. No strategy is perfect, but certainly the current scattergun approach that sees the squad overhauled every year with another set of inadequate players isn't building attendances. What youngster wants to watch players they can't identify with? They will be lost. Is mid-table an aspiration that will reach 20k in the ground every week? And so on.
It's taken all year to get to where we are today. From the public meeting, various supporters meetings, the fans meeting, spell it out, West Stand protests, and so on. All have played their part, despite - as you observe - perhaps the most disparate viewpoints among Charlton fans (and some of the most disappointing in-fighting) in our history. Perhaps now is the time to focus on the things that unite rather than divide?
It's good that the club are finally entering dialogue, it may take a little while for that to become effective dialogue but from little acorns and all that. I agree that protests have hardly harmed those efforts and have helped bring some urgency, and the SIO campaign some focus. As Steve also said, now is the time for action not lip service - and we'll see shortly whether the club are serious about that.
(We seem to have digressed somewhat from topic).
She's just a shit Karen Brady...
Don't blame it on Luzon, Don't blame it on Peeters! Don't blame it on Riga, blame it on Meire...she just can't, she just can't, she just can't tell the truth....
Meire, Meire, wherever you may be, you're an embarrassment to the Charlton family but it could be worse, you could be Duchatelet then we would all stop coming to The Valley
We all agree, Yann was better than Parsley. We all agree Hamer was better than Thuram. We all agree Stephens was better than Baaaa. We all agree Gomez was better than Sarr. We all agree Wiggins was better than Bergdich.
We all agree Powell was better than Riga. We all agree Riga was better than Peeters. We all agree Peeters speaks better than Luzon. We all agree that Luzon was better than Freaye. We all agree that anyone's better than Meire...
What happens on these threads is that the opportunists try to extract an official trust position out of every comment I might make, and whatever capital serves their purpose from the latest circular argument. We're not backwards in coming forwards but we're also not going to conduct a running commentary on Charlton Life of every single thing we do. We don't meet every week, we work full time jobs and have families.
I know this stuff is important, but we're doing what we've agreed with our members to do. If dialogue doesn't result in action then we will be doing something else but as we said at AGM we need to exhaust that option.
None of that means I'm saying the protests shouldn't continue. I'm just saying personally I won't be supporting this one. That's me Rich, not me CAStrust treasurer.
Yours David (as in sarky c**t )
Anyway, as Rich says, we are digressing
No no,
No no no no,
No no, no no
No no ,
No more Roland.
I might be a bit a bit out on my number of no's, or indeed the song might be a bit of a no no on Saturday.
Other than that small point :-), massive bravo. If you promise to sing them at the protest, you can count me in.
IMO the trust would be getting a much bigger positive response from fans if it would focus on what is clearly the biggest problem....the on the pitch performance, which encompasses player and manager recruitment.
Whilst the cosy dialogue they are having with the board may be nice, and the steps they have taken may be positive it is clear from the Target 20,000 thread that not many people care about that at the moment. To me, a Target 20,000 group is something you set up when you have steady football and steady attendances, which leaves room for improvement. That is not us, we have got diabolical football (and footballing decisions) and falling attendances.
Get it right in the area that really matters to the vast majority of fans, then care about the 'glossy' touches.
If we don't continue to protest then nothing will change - just yet another load of b*llocks about dialogue when it's never going to happen. 'We hear what you're saying', 'our door is always open'. FFS.
I shall be there on Saturday at the protest, wearing my black and white scarf and not buying anything in the ground. I will hold up any poster / banner necessary, sing 'we want our Charlton back' etc so RM/KM continue to know that I am unhappy with them and not now placated by the sniff of a bloody dialogue. Get these useless f*ckers out before they totally destroy my club.
Anyway Saturday.
The Sheffield Wednesday directors could be seen with Katrien through the window from the car park. If we assume Cellini will be there then we should invite the Leeds fans to join us.
We all agree, our owner's madder than your one.
I shall be at the disorganised no point protest and actually doing something to voice my concerns in a way km may understand. (And no I won't be screaming racist sexist songs just standing up for what I believe in)
A bit long winded (sorry) but that is why for me, the Trust are also irrelevant at the moment.
Unfortunately we are in a situation where most aspects of the club are being messed up by hopeless management, but the football problem is the main one. Fans can't deal with that through talks. They can only try to force change by making a lot of noise.
We asked for dialogue this time last year. They refused. 12 wasteful months later we are in the exact same (if not worse) position, negotiating for 'meaningful dialogue'. Now that we have this dialogue concerns are once again been deflected onto ludicrous pipe dreams (e.g. T20K) instead of addressing fundamental issues.
Have you seen anything to suggest they are/will be changing their approach? At what point do you say 'meaningful dialogue' has failed, we need to do something else?
Where at the woolwich meeting was it discussed the target 20k? it seems to have come from thin air and only benefits Rolland's pockets!
I will continue to protest about the bad decision making of the board. In my mind it isn't just KM and RD that is to blame, it is every level of management, the club is a joke.
What I don't understand are those who blindly defend the club and the way it operates through some misguided sense of elitism, as if they are "better" fans than those who make up the ever-growing despondent faction of our core support. They ain't.
And that isn't supposed to be a snide remark at anyone in particular. It's a general comment.
However, I am also looking for an early decision by the Trust on whether KM/RD are accepting the dire position their actions and management have put the club in and specifically have plans to remedy the situation. If the Trust believe that they are just being kidded along then they must disengage from the talks and publically join the protests. I know the Trust would like to play the long game but the current crises is so severe that it must be addressed now (not in 3 months time), even at the cost of temporarily damaging long term relationships.
I think this is how the Trust see it but can't come right out and say it - but I could be wrong !
It is amazing that RD and KM can continue. I slightly understand RD as he owns the club and has money invested. KM is playing a major part in ruining the club. Unsuitable players, unsuitable managers, pathetic gimmicks, perceived apathy towards the fans. There is no confidence in management and she is the CEO who put the management there. She has to go before any recovery of confidence or even support for the club can begin.
So many well documented screw ups, very strange and aloof personal stance to interacting with the fans (I believe Watford away is still very much in her mind). We just need a better leader and leadership team. Yet if she goes we are only just going to get another version of her. RD will never say look at that guy that's just resigned from the Norwich board for example.
This is why, and also the 2 years of for me, going nowhere, we need a new owner.
Yes we've had his financial backing, I've said many times I am grateful for, but with each passing week, it's clear that nothing is clear about our club, and to me that makes it clear, he genuinely doesn't have a clue