I can only think that is a joke? Or if you don't know speak to one of your brothers. I don't believe golf has ever contributed to the shirt sponsorship. But sure N has. But still really surprised you don't know who the Upbeats are
I can only think that is a joke? Or if you don't know speak to one of your brothers. I don't believe golf has ever contributed to the shirt sponsorship. But sure N has. But still really surprised you don't know who the Upbeats are
Please count me in. Is there any chance it could be a just giving type page where we can use a credit card rather than just pay pal? Would help me a lot as can't use my pay pal account and don't have internet banking.
Thanks @HantsAddick The problem with Just Giving is that they take 5% of all donations as a fee. That put us off, to be honest.
They only take 5% of the gift aid amount which they claim on the charities behalf so you actually get more than the original donation but assume this would not be funds raised under a charity umbrella
How to verify the people using the money for protests are legit? That whatever is being funded is lawful? That whatever users spend, it is proven and matches their original ask?
Will the Fund and Accounts be audited?
Is it sensible to give funding only to those protestors who "register" on the CAST website?
Why should unused funds go only to the Upbeats, I imagine CACT do other great work that wants funding?
I've tried to be constructive here and am not wishing to stir any pots with you, CAST, CACT or anyone else. It's just that in thinking about your proposal these things have popped into my head.
Good for you both for offering to do this, it seems like a great idea to me. It may also turn out to be a lot of time and effort for you both? Over the years I've been constantly amazed at the passion and energy of Charlton fans, you're yet another example. Thank you, the bad guys don't stand a chance.........I hope
Something aroundValley Gold could be a good idea, we could convert our membership of VG into a protest scheme and then return it to Valley Gold after we get rid of this lot. If I understand correctly, isn't VG run by Charlton club independantly of the club itself. Could we get all members to lobby the organisers of Charlton Club to ask members where they now want the money to go whilst RD owns the club?
If we get Valley Gold involved it could take ages, surely we need a fund as soon as possible if we want action now? It is something to consider for the future if nothing happens.
You raise good points CW re verifying where it goes. We would have to come up with a scheme. I think Davo will have to answer those but he's not available today.
It's probably going to need a bit more thought. I only really offered to hold the funds but wouldn't be interested in auditing etc, I wouldn't want the hassle or worry. I'm assuming people think there are going to be large sums involved.
Maybe any accountants on here can suggest something.
Simply holding buckets and asking for any donations would surely work very well. It's safe to say that the MASSIVE majority of charlton fans are on board with these protests now and I like to think that most would be willing to give whatever change they have in their pockets.
bro, you do disappoint me sometimes. The Upbeats have been supported by Charlton Life for a number of years so I'm surprised you are not aware but they are the Charlton Downs Syndrome team.
You raise good points CW re verifying where it goes. We would have to come up with a scheme. I think Davo will have to answer those but he's not available today.
It's probably going to need a bit more thought. I only really offered to hold the funds but wouldn't be interested in auditing etc, I wouldn't want the hassle or worry. I'm assuming people think there are going to be large sums involved.
Maybe any accountants on here can suggest something.
I would have thought the Trust could be a logical vehicle for a fans led initiative such as this and simultaneously cover any auditing / independent examination requirements.
Supporter politics might make that idea a non starter in reality of course.
Maybe the time is right to form a completely fan led democratic alternative to Valley Gold, discuss.
I'm thinking of stopping my membership I have to admit, particularly after we were told the club didnt need the VIP money, and with all these undisclosed fees
I've been thinking the same thing -- especially as it now seems the best youth products will hardly touch the sides before they're sold on to fund RD's narcissistic scheme.
On the matter of the fighting fund, I'm in for £50. Will you, @Curb_It , let us know when you're ready to receive donations?
razil has it right. I would say get out of Valley Gold immediately (sorry rikofold) and lets set up this alternative fund.
For historians, I believe the Jimmy Seed Stand (still in use today!) was paid for by a fans run organisation called CASDA (Charlton Athletic Supporters Development Organisation). My memory is a bit hazy but it might have been funded by those old tear-off-the-edge Time of Golden Goal tickets.
I hope somebody else knows the full details, I simply remember being impressed that a supporters organisation got enough dosh together to build an actual stand.
Valley Gold stop. Supporters fighting fund start.
Having met them personally I trust davo and Curb-it.
Thanks for all the comments so far folks. I've had to work today and just home. Welcoming guests and prepping for a big dinner party this evening so I will aim to discuss questions with @Curb_It and respond to these tomorrow if possible.
All I will say for now is that we don't want this idea to become too bogged down with verification and audit trails - it's meant to be a fairly simple way, based largely on trust, to get money quickly to fellow lifers involved in protest activity.
Thanks for all the comments so far folks. I've had to work today and just home. Welcoming guests and prepping for a big dinner party this evening so I will aim to discuss questions with @Curb_It and respond to these tomorrow if possible.
All I will say for now is that we don't want this idea to become too bogged down with verification and audit trails - it's meant to be a fairly simple way, based largely on trust, to get money quickly to fellow lifers involved in protest activity.
Absolutely.
My "Baldrick like cunning plan" was, if one or both of you were Trust members, for it to be held under the auspices of the Trust with both of you as authorised signatories so to speak which would have the dual effect of leaving you and Curb_it with the control and instant acccess you want and need but also hopefully help to alleviate any accountability issues, anticipated or unanticipated, that might arise alluded to in passing by Curb_it.
The rationale being that this is a fans led initiative and the Trust represents the fans.
I do accept that politically it is probably not a goer but suggestions were requested so I tried to help.
I would happily divert my VG money into an alternative that can go back to the development of young players when the current mob leaves. Maybe somebody could construct a letter template that fans could e-mail to their banks that transfers the Valley Gold direct debit into another. It would be good for the trust to organise this IMO.
Again, many thanks for the expressions of support, useful feedback and thought provoking questions.
@Curb_It and I have now had a chance to discuss and this is the way we see things. This is for general information but also, in particular in response to the useful points from @WrightCharlie and others.
As I briefly posted yesterday, we don't want this idea to become too bogged down with verification and audit trails - it's meant to be a fairly simple way, based largely on trust, to get money quickly to fellow lifers involved in protest activity. The process would be as follows:
1. The fund is only open to CL members, so we have some degree of knowledge of those requesting fund support.
2. Those seeking funds would PM @Davo55 and @Curb_It seeking personal email addresses. I will email back (to verify the given email address is legitimate) and copy in Curb_It. We would seek the following details: - name of the protest campaign/initiative - a brief description of the planned protest activity and dates - how much funding is sought and for what specific purpose, itemised to a reasonable level
3. On receipt of that information, Curb_It and I would confer. The aim is to get sufficient detail in the initial email request but we would seek further clarity if required. We would then agree whether, and how much (i.e. full or partial funding depending on the case put forward and amount of funds available) to allocate. We would refuse any requests that we believe to incorporate illegal activity but would not intend to act as moral arbiters - i.e. make conditions about swearing etc.
4. Notwithstanding point 3, it will be made clear that the legality and overall conduct of the protest activity is the responsibility of the protest organisers. Our role will be simply to channel CL donor funds and neither we or the donors accept any responsibility in those regards.
5. Curb_It will manage the receipt and acknowledgement of donations and the payment of agreed allocated funds. She will advise me of all receipts and payments and I will maintain an overall record of both.
6. We will not seek to verify that the amount allocated was actually spent as detailed in the original request. This will be taken on trust, with any surplus funds being returned to Curb_It.
7. At least monthly I will update all via CL on funds received (overall figures rather than individual details) and how they have been distributed - name and brief description of protest plus amount allocated.
8. It is not intended that the fund would be independently audted, although full records excluding personal details could be made available to CL Donors on request.
In summary, we are in effect asking you to trust us with your money and make reasonable enquiries and decisions on your behalf. In turn, we will be trusting CL members requesting/receiving funding to be truthful in their requests, use the money for the purpose it was allocated and return any unused money to the fund. We don’t want to get bogged down with administration and oversight - we are a community and this initiative is simply a mechanism to get money quickly to protest organisers. If the fund really takes off we can review details in due course.
To comment on a few other points made on the thread:
We would prefer not to restrict funding to only those protestors who "register" on the CAST website. This is not a mandatory registration process, but rather an information source.
We feel it is not the right time to ask the Trust to lead this initiative. Although they have a ready mechanism, they have made it clear that they do not wish to compromise their pursuit of a strategic dialogue (note, my words not theirs) and we respect that. To be honest, given the level of anti-Trust comments from some fans, asking the Trust to manage the fund might also be counter-productive, deterring some fans from contributing. It may be that this could change at some point in the future.
In respect of any unused funds to go to the Upbeats, there are any number of possible good causes but CL has a strong and proud record of supporting the Upbeats and we felt it appropriate to continue in that vein. Of course, it may well be that there are NO unused funds to hand out anyway.
The idea of a fan led democratic alternative to Valley Gold is interesting, but we will leave that for others to pursue. As @HantsAddick posted, that could take quite a while and is perhaps something to consider for the future.
On @kimbo’s point re Just Giving, I’m no expert but it appears to be different for crowd-funding (where there is no charity status and/or gift-aid). The website terms and conditions states:
“JustGiving fees - JustGiving charges a small transaction fee on every donation made on the Website or its associated services. The fee is currently up to 5% of the gross donation.”
I hope this answers the points raised satisfactorily. All being well, we will launch the fund in the next day or two.
Unless you can get the media supporting you, protests are a waste of time and will easily be ignored by RD. KM is just obeying his every instruction, a total nobody who is an insult to the title CEO. Sadly I believe that empty seats and low attendances might eventually force some attention, but expecting them to appoint a strong manager is akin to expecting to win the lottery every time, no bloody chance. We need to make the peculiar owner we are lumbered with uncomfortable. No-one of any quality will want to work with theses two nitwits.
Comments
Or if you don't know speak to one of your brothers. I don't believe golf has ever contributed to the shirt sponsorship. But sure N has. But still really surprised you don't know who the Upbeats are
I have a couple of questions -
How to verify the people using the money for protests are legit?
That whatever is being funded is lawful?
That whatever users spend, it is proven and matches their original ask?
Will the Fund and Accounts be audited?
Is it sensible to give funding only to those protestors who "register" on the CAST website?
Why should unused funds go only to the Upbeats, I imagine CACT do other great work that wants funding?
I've tried to be constructive here and am not wishing to stir any pots with you, CAST, CACT or anyone else. It's just that in thinking about your proposal these things have popped into my head.
Good for you both for offering to do this, it seems like a great idea to me. It may also turn out to be a lot of time and effort for you both? Over the years I've been constantly amazed at the passion and energy of Charlton fans, you're yet another example. Thank you, the bad guys don't stand a chance.........I hope
Tell us how to do it - btw i dont do Paypal.
Would contribute to a pot for such things to continue
It's probably going to need a bit more thought. I only really offered to hold the funds but wouldn't be interested in auditing etc, I wouldn't want the hassle or worry. I'm assuming people think there are going to be large sums involved.
Maybe any accountants on here can suggest something.
Supporter politics might make that idea a non starter in reality of course.
On the matter of the fighting fund, I'm in for £50. Will you, @Curb_It , let us know when you're ready to receive donations?
For historians, I believe the Jimmy Seed Stand (still in use today!) was paid for by a fans run organisation called CASDA (Charlton Athletic Supporters Development Organisation). My memory is a bit hazy but it might have been funded by those old tear-off-the-edge Time of Golden Goal tickets.
I hope somebody else knows the full details, I simply remember being impressed that a supporters organisation got enough dosh together to build an actual stand.
Valley Gold stop.
Supporters fighting fund start.
Having met them personally I trust davo and Curb-it.
All I will say for now is that we don't want this idea to become too bogged down with verification and audit trails - it's meant to be a fairly simple way, based largely on trust, to get money quickly to fellow lifers involved in protest activity.
My "Baldrick like cunning plan" was, if one or both of you were Trust members, for it to be held under the auspices of the Trust with both of you as authorised signatories so to speak which would have the dual effect of leaving you and Curb_it with the control and instant acccess you want and need but also hopefully help to alleviate any accountability issues, anticipated or unanticipated, that might arise alluded to in passing by Curb_it.
The rationale being that this is a fans led initiative and the Trust represents the fans.
I do accept that politically it is probably not a goer but suggestions were requested so I tried to help.
@Curb_It and I have now had a chance to discuss and this is the way we see things. This is for general information but also, in particular in response to the useful points from @WrightCharlie and others.
As I briefly posted yesterday, we don't want this idea to become too bogged down with verification and audit trails - it's meant to be a fairly simple way, based largely on trust, to get money quickly to fellow lifers involved in protest activity. The process would be as follows:
1. The fund is only open to CL members, so we have some degree of knowledge of those requesting fund support.
2. Those seeking funds would PM @Davo55 and @Curb_It seeking personal email addresses. I will email back (to verify the given email address is legitimate) and copy in Curb_It. We would seek the following details:
- name of the protest campaign/initiative
- a brief description of the planned protest activity and dates
- how much funding is sought and for what specific purpose, itemised to a reasonable level
3. On receipt of that information, Curb_It and I would confer. The aim is to get sufficient detail in the initial email request but we would seek further clarity if required. We would then agree whether, and how much (i.e. full or partial funding depending on the case put forward and amount of funds available) to allocate. We would refuse any requests that we believe to incorporate illegal activity but would not intend to act as moral arbiters - i.e. make conditions about swearing etc.
4. Notwithstanding point 3, it will be made clear that the legality and overall conduct of the protest activity is the responsibility of the protest organisers. Our role will be simply to channel CL donor funds and neither we or the donors accept any responsibility in those regards.
5. Curb_It will manage the receipt and acknowledgement of donations and the payment of agreed allocated funds. She will advise me of all receipts and payments and I will maintain an overall record of both.
6. We will not seek to verify that the amount allocated was actually spent as detailed in the original request. This will be taken on trust, with any surplus funds being returned to Curb_It.
7. At least monthly I will update all via CL on funds received (overall figures rather than individual details) and how they have been distributed - name and brief description of protest plus amount allocated.
8. It is not intended that the fund would be independently audted, although full records excluding personal details could be made available to CL Donors on request.
In summary, we are in effect asking you to trust us with your money and make reasonable enquiries and decisions on your behalf. In turn, we will be trusting CL members requesting/receiving funding to be truthful in their requests, use the money for the purpose it was allocated and return any unused money to the fund. We don’t want to get bogged down with administration and oversight - we are a community and this initiative is simply a mechanism to get money quickly to protest organisers. If the fund really takes off we can review details in due course.
To comment on a few other points made on the thread:
We would prefer not to restrict funding to only those protestors who "register" on the CAST website. This is not a mandatory registration process, but rather an information source.
We feel it is not the right time to ask the Trust to lead this initiative. Although they have a ready mechanism, they have made it clear that they do not wish to compromise their pursuit of a strategic dialogue (note, my words not theirs) and we respect that. To be honest, given the level of anti-Trust comments from some fans, asking the Trust to manage the fund might also be counter-productive, deterring some fans from contributing. It may be that this could change at some point in the future.
In respect of any unused funds to go to the Upbeats, there are any number of possible good causes but CL has a strong and proud record of supporting the Upbeats and we felt it appropriate to continue in that vein. Of course, it may well be that there are NO unused funds to hand out anyway.
The idea of a fan led democratic alternative to Valley Gold is interesting, but we will leave that for others to pursue. As @HantsAddick posted, that could take quite a while and is perhaps something to consider for the future.
On @kimbo’s point re Just Giving, I’m no expert but it appears to be different for crowd-funding (where there is no charity status and/or gift-aid). The website terms and conditions states:
“JustGiving fees - JustGiving charges a small transaction fee on every donation made on the Website or its associated services. The fee is currently up to 5% of the gross donation.”
I hope this answers the points raised satisfactorily. All being well, we will launch the fund in the next day or two.
Sadly I believe that empty seats and low attendances might eventually force some attention, but expecting them to appoint a strong manager is akin to expecting to win the lottery every time, no bloody chance.
We need to make the peculiar owner we are lumbered with uncomfortable. No-one of any quality will want to work with theses two nitwits.
Now, let's go and stuff Forest and then the Board.
COYRs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!