Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.
Options

‘Customers’ – a case of mislabelling?

Was KM on to something when she sought to put supporters into one of the categories of business?

She compared us to customers and suggested we should behave in a way that recognised this was the correct relationship for us to have with the club (or ‘business’). We fundamentally reject this as our role. A supporter makes a lifelong, usually involuntary, emotional commitment to a single entity; that level of commitment does not fit into the boundaries set by the role of being a customer. That we will not fit into this role, but instead “have a sense of ownership” of the club strikes KM as “weird”. To be fair, it is weird. After all, who can explain how this devotion comes about and remains? Weird maybe, but the sense of ownership is nevertheless real. Supporters are, of course, not (normally) owners of a football club in the legal sense, but they are the owners in an emotional or moral sense.

All this suggests that although equating supporters with customers misunderstands what a supporter is, there is another business analogy that gets closer to the real nature of a supporter: a shareholder. Of course we are not literally shareholders – RD is the shareholder – but we can be thought of as emotional shareholders. This is not just fanciful. The validity of the analogy is that supporters share with legal shareholders a crucial power: both types of shareholder have in their hands the ability to support or reject management’s stewardship of their company. In the case of football supporters that power is not exercised through the votes that their shares give them (they usually have none), but through the power of their emotional commitment; our weirdness is our strength. We care enough to act and in Rick Everitt’s words, “we can make the club unmanageable”. If KM, and also RD, had thought of us as shareholders, they might have found that this analogy pointed to supporters being a group that had to be considered, communicated with openly and honestly, listened to, and generally simply respected. Like shareholders we have a stake in the ‘business’. We have found ourselves in a situation where the stewardship of that stake has been assumed by RD and KM who seem to have lost sight of the fact that we can withdraw our permission for them to continue in this role.

Maybe this is an historic moment – for CAFC certainly, but also, just possibly and in the much longer term, for football more generally. There is enormous tension between football as big business, which it most certainly is, and football as ‘belonging’ (in a non-financial sense) to the supporters. At present money dominates almost totally. If this exercise in benign regime change (I mean here that the change is benign not the regime!) achieves its objective, it just might be a small step towards a re-balancing of the powers. I like razil’s comment that “the fans must be involved in any future ownership, this is the only way we can stop this madness, in our club, in our game.”

I admire greatly all those who have led the way and have participated in whatever way they could.

Comments

  • Options
    Nicely put kha
  • Options
    T said:

    I'd actually describe us as stakeholders rather than shareholders. We have a stake in the business without owning it. But the business can only work if we buy into it too.

    I like many don't like KM but i have less issues over her Dublin foot in mouth incident than most here.

    I've worked in the video game industry for getting on for 20 years, I've been to several events like the one in Dublin and when you speak to wider business groups and explain why your 'customers' are not like their 'customers' and share why people get so worked up over what essentially are home electronics & games they get utterly befuddled. The other industry's in attendance have customers who buy their product and might even be brand loyal, but the idea that they might send death threats if a favorite vacuum cleaner is changed or Andrex toilet paper drops puppies from it's packaging is totally 'weird' to them.

    Now don't take that as me defending KM, what she said was hopelessly naive. Despite her audience being made up of other businesses to go on record of saying what she did knowing the existing feeling of unrest amongst the fan base, added to the fact that it was recorded and uploaded to youtube was beyond stupid. I doubt RD will be letting her do something like that in the future. Now had she have gone there and talked about how weird it was from her background seeing the way football 'customers' behave but how great it was to have such passionate fans the business team could have worked with to grow Charlton Athletic, we'd be (slightly) less inclined to use it as a stick to hit her with. Maybe?

    It's almost like they need a Head of Communications...

    Some very pertinent points there.
  • Options
    T said:



    It's almost like they need a Head of Communications...

    He will have a hell of a job winning back the fanbase, that's for sure.
  • Options
    stonemuse said:

    T said:



    It's almost like they need a Head of Communications...

    He will have a hell of a job winning back the fanbase, that's for sure.
    Poisoned Chalice that one. Doubt anyone with the skill set to do the job would touch it, especially if they pay as little as they do for their Head Coaches.
  • Options
    The inherent flaw in KM's interpretation of us as customers is that their "business" operates in one of the most competitive markets in Europe, namely London, with a multitude of alternatives operating on our doorstep offering a far superior product I.e premier league clubs offering a better quality of football and likely superior match day experience to coin her inappropriate terminology.

    Where football clubs differ than most corporate organisatons and other businesses is that they can rely on brand loyalty to an extreme degree to retain customers in the face of the delivery of appalling service/ product in comparison to available local competition.

    Unfortunately for her, and of course us, they have served to erode the brand and simultaneously destroyed any feeling of loyalty (towards the ownership) amongst current supporters and the inadequate business model/ strategy espoused will fail to gain new support when far superior football is available elsewhere without brand loyalty or any usps to bring them in.

    Knew she was clueless when she spoke about tapping into the South West London market at if she's running a branch of Mamas and Papa as opposed to a tribal, traditional and partisan part of our culture.
  • Options
    edited January 2016
    I used to have one of those 'salesey' posters up in my office of a famous quote by Ray Croc (the founder of McDonalds) it read "Take care of the customer and the business will take care of itself".

    Clearly a business does need a little bit of TLC every once in a while, but it's a rule that I've, always, followed and I've never struggled for new clients (mainly from referrals), and I've never lost one.
  • Options
    Her only mention of customers was saying 'I don't think fans see themselves as customers ' and......she is definitely correct with that statement.
  • Options
    Stakeholder would indeed be a better term to describe the more ardent fan.

    However 'customer' is a reasonable analogy for those that attend matches only occasionally or opportunistically - I think it's fair to say that during the Premiership years we had as many 'customers' as 'fans' (and there was nothing wrong with that).

    When I fancy taking my kids to a random local game in my area (Herts/Beds/Bucks), I would always choose say Wycombe over Luton because the 'customer experience' is so much better. I will never be a Wycombe fan but I might readily go and watch them a few times per season.

    Moreover not only am I choosing between which matches to watch, I'm also considering whether I'd prefer to take them to a football match versus other leisure activities, including those that are completely free (a country walk for example). In this example, customer is absolutely the right analogy.
  • Sponsored links:


  • Options
    I went home after the post-match demonstration on Saturday thinking about this 'customer' issue. Any normal commercial organisation would be horrified about 1,000 customers protesting outside its' offices while directors and guests scuttle through the back door with police standing by. Even widespread publicity in the media has not provoked any comment from the club.

    In another thread, somebody said that they spoke to KM on Saturday and asked her why she had not answered any of the three e-mails that he sent her. She looked unhappy about being spoken to and didn't answer.

    If the club was a cinema and it had such little respect for its' customers, it would go out of business. KM should be pleased that we are not just customers. As stated above, the tribal nature of football means that people keep coming back even when they are treated with such disdain.
  • Options
    The point I was trying to make was that this balancing between shareholders and customers (stonemuse’s point) does not really apply to football clubs. Leaving aside casual attendees, the ‘customers’, in the sense of the people who buy the product by attending matches, are supporters, and supporters don’t take their business elsewhere if they are unhappy with the club. Very occasionally, if things get bad enough, they will decide to use their power to attempt to change the club’s ownership. When they do that, they are no longer acting as customers, but much more like shareholders who have lost all confidence in their company’s management. This difference between conventional customers and supporters is why it is unwise for the owners/management to think of supporters simply as conventional customers. In the current situation at CAFC, the actual shareholder poses no threat (RD cannot be a threat to himself!), but the supporters do pose a very real threat to the current regime’s ability to stay in place because they have power akin to that possessed by shareholders.

    In response to T’s point about thinking of supporters as stakeholders, I chose the analogy of shareholders (even though we are stakeholders and not shareholders) because shareholders are the only stakeholders with the direct power to change management.

    And in response to newyorkaddick, the people in the protests on Saturday were clearly in the ‘ardent fan’ category. If KM has failed to understand that the connection these people have with the club amounts to something far deeper than can be captured by the term ‘customer’, then it is unsurprising that she is facing such serious problems. And if RD has failed to learn from his experience at Standard Liege that it is important to take the trouble to communicate in person just what it is you’re trying to do, then he too is asking for the trouble he is getting. (He did, after all, recognise after the escapade of fans invading his office that he contributed to the problem through his poor communications.)
  • Options

    I used to have one of those 'salesey' posters up in my office of a famous quote by Ray Croc (the founder of McDonalds) it read "Take care of the customer and the business will take care of itself".

    Clearly a business does need a little bit of TLC every once in a while, but it's a rule that I've, always, followed and I've never struggled for new clients (mainly from referrals), and I've never lost one.

    I saw a quote by Richard Branson that said the most important people are your staff, if they're happy they'll look after the business which in turn will service the customers.
  • Options
    If she were running a business she would be out of business by now. She wants the loyalty that football fans show without the recognition that supporters have a stake in the club. If we got the kind of service we have been getting at any other business we would simply have gone elsewhere and never gone back. Her business would have gone belly up a long time ago.
  • Options
    Interesting reading this. I think some of the problem may be the use of the generic "customer". We obviously are customers, but we instinctively feel different from the customer in a supermarket. Stakeholder to me also carries baggage - lots of people will be stakeholders who have no emotional attachment to the club.

    Being an analyst by trade, but not a marketing analyst, I wondered whether there was any common segmentation of customers. I found this interesting site.

    http://www.managementstudyguide.com/types-of-customers.htm

    It breaks down five types and the first seems a fairly decent fit, although it still doesn't capture the raw emotion involved in following a sports team.

    "Loyal Customers- These types of customers are less in numbers but promote more sales and profit as compared to other customers as these are the ones which are completely satisfied. These customers revisit the organization over times hence it is crucial to interact and keep in touch with them on a regular basis and invest much time and effort with them. Loyal customers want individual attention and that demands polite and respectful responses from supplier."

    It raises a bigger issue - does KM, or indeed anyone at the club, understand marketing. I suspect not. I know I don't, but I do know that if I have customers, I'd want someone around who knows how to market to them.
  • Options
    Whilst we may directly, through ticket sales only contribute a third of the clubs income. A third is a significant amount. And the more supporters a club has, the more non supporter money that club can generally bring in. We have not reached a point where supporterless clubs are viable. So it makes sense to try to keep them on board. Charlton fans are pretty realistic, I have found. They don’t demand unsustainable amounts are spent on the club, but they do demand that the club is professionally run and they are respected. Unfortunately, the last two cannot be said for this regime.
  • Options
    edited January 2016

    Whilst we may directly, through ticket sales only contribute a third of the clubs income. A third is a significant amount. And the more supporters a club has, the more non supporter money that club can generally bring in. We have not reached a point where supporterless clubs are viable. So it makes sense to try to keep them on board. Charlton fans are pretty realistic, I have found. They don’t demand unsustainable amounts are spent on the club, but they do demand that the club is professionally run and they are respected. Unfortunately, the last two cannot be said for this regime.

    Also, does the third include 'extra' spending and Valley Gold?

    More importantly if the fans contribute a third of the income if they encourage half of those to walk away that's a sixth of the income which, on the basis that many will not come back it's a whole year's income every six years. As we know even the slightest bit TLC and fans will keep coming back for decades so you could equate the income to a return where the capital is (on a 5% roi) twenty times the value of their annual contribution. Suddenly we are talking about significant numbers - certainly big enough that Ms Miere shouldn't be deliberately trying to antagonise the supporters.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Roland Out Forever!