I was half an hour into the 1st episode and just thought he was a prick anyway If there gana frame someone may aswell be him. Got bored, not continuing with it.
I find it utterly amazing and terrifying in equal measure that a jury found him guilty "beyond reasonable doubt"
Utter madness.
I think it was in closing statements that the state used the phrase "benefit of the doubt is for the innocent." I suspect the issue here is more the trial by media leading up to this, as well as lack of understanding of what "beyond a reasonable doubt" means. And to be fair, to 12 citizens off the street, that can be incredibly difficult to explain. It's difficult to anyone really.
Cracking watch, another if you like hard hitting documentaries;
Dear Zachary: A story from Father to Son. < Will tear you open and kick you right where it hurts, absolutely heart breaking stuff but somewhat similar watch in that it's based in the US and a true crime
I started watching this on my commute to work and will finish on my journey home, a good watch. Thanks for the recommendation.
I was half an hour into the 1st episode and just thought he was a prick anyway If there gana frame someone may aswell be him. Got bored, not continuing with it.
I've finished it now. Steven's trial and verdict is highly questionable but the Brandon Dassey case was a total stitch up. He wasn't given a lawyer, was bullied by veteran officers, then when he did get a lawyer he incriminated him. It's scary to think how many other times similar may have happened.
Regarding post-show analysis, IMO of course the prosecutors would say there was lots of physical evidence not shown. They'll know they came off looking worse than the two currently rotting in prison.
Whether he did or didn't do it is almost inconsequential. The biggest thing about the documentary is that large parts of the case are built on evidence which looks to have almost certainly been setup by the Police. Bang out of order.
I can believe that they maybe saw some reason to suspect him and out of a subconcious desire to get one over on him went after him so single mindedly that they neglected all other lines of enquiry and were willing to make sure the case against him was strong at all costs.
I can also believe they just flat out framed him because he was suing them. Wrongun or not, he's as entitled to a fair trial and just treatment from the Police as the rest of us.
I've just binged watched this over two nights. Absolutely compelling viewing.
I don't think he did it at all. The police were after him because of his litigation against them and they got their man.
The court appearance where the cop calls in the car registration was damning as was the syringe hole in the blood vile yet they were never really followed up on . Also the first Lawyer Brandon got should have been struck off. he was a disgrace.
Brillant TV show yet very depressing to think that that can actually happen in a civilised country.
Having started off thinking the same as you I did some reading around it, and it seems the documentary left out a fair few things that made me change my view.
Namely: - apparently all blood vials have that hole, it was not evidence of a syringe hole. The box had been tampered with though. - his DNA was found under the hood of the car. Not his blood, but skin cells. Really stretching if we think police planted that too - Brendan said that him and Steve bleached the garage, and the trousers he was wearing that night were stained with bleach - Steve had specifically requested for that girl to be sent, and on the day she disappeared called her three times, using a code to hide his caller ID
There is more, but those are the ones that stood out.
I've just binged watched this over two nights. Absolutely compelling viewing.
I don't think he did it at all. The police were after him because of his litigation against them and they got their man.
The court appearance where the cop calls in the car registration was damning as was the syringe hole in the blood vile yet they were never really followed up on . Also the first Lawyer Brandon got should have been struck off. he was a disgrace.
Brillant TV show yet very depressing to think that that can actually happen in a civilised country.
Having started off thinking the same as you I did some reading around it, and it seems the documentary left out a fair few things that made me change my view.
Namely: - apparently all blood vials have that hole, it was not evidence of a syringe hole. The box had been tampered with though. - his DNA was found under the hood of the car. Not his blood, but skin cells. Really stretching if we think police planted that too - Brendan said that him and Steve bleached the garage, and the trousers he was wearing that night were stained with bleach - Steve had specifically requested for that girl to be sent, and on the day she disappeared called her three times, using a code to hide his caller ID
There is more, but those are the ones that stood out.
Cracking watch, another if you like hard hitting documentaries;
Dear Zachary: A story from Father to Son. < Will tear you open and kick you right where it hurts, absolutely heart breaking stuff but somewhat similar watch in that it's based in the US and a true crime
I started watching this on my commute to work and will finish on my journey home, a good watch. Thanks for the recommendation.
You were not lying when you said hard hitting, had to genuinely hold back the tears on the train home. The system failed so badly here, shocking.
Cracking watch, another if you like hard hitting documentaries;
Dear Zachary: A story from Father to Son. < Will tear you open and kick you right where it hurts, absolutely heart breaking stuff but somewhat similar watch in that it's based in the US and a true crime
I started watching this on my commute to work and will finish on my journey home, a good watch. Thanks for the recommendation.
You were not lying when you said hard hitting, had to genuinely hold back the tears on the train home. The system failed so badly here, shocking.
Maybe I'm cynical but I think you more as entertainment rather than an accurate reflection of the workings of the legal system. For a start it appears that the prosecution provided pretty compelling evidence (see above) that wasn't depicted in the documentary. It was certainly edited so that you were on Steve Avery's "side".
I can't imagine that there was much evidence left out that would make me think Brandon Dassey was guilty however.
Cracking watch, another if you like hard hitting documentaries;
Dear Zachary: A story from Father to Son. < Will tear you open and kick you right where it hurts, absolutely heart breaking stuff but somewhat similar watch in that it's based in the US and a true crime
I started watching this on my commute to work and will finish on my journey home, a good watch. Thanks for the recommendation.
You were not lying when you said hard hitting, had to genuinely hold back the tears on the train home. The system failed so badly here, shocking.
Maybe I'm cynical but I think you more as entertainment rather than an accurate reflection of the workings of the legal system. For a start it appears that the prosecution provided pretty compelling evidence (see above) that wasn't depicted in the documentary. It was certainly edited so that you were on Steve Avery's "side".
I can't imagine that there was much evidence left out that would make me think Brandon Dassey was guilty however.
Sorry was referring to Dear Zachery that Atletico Addick recommended earlier.
The treatment of Brandon is particularly disturbing as well. Exploitation of a vulnerable teen by an agency who's job it is to protect such vulnerable people. The kid was clearly so messed up by the whole thing that i don't think any evidence he gave can really be relied upon, whether it indites or acquits Steven.
This is in America as well. Not always the land of the free it likes to portray itself as, but certainly a society with better protections for its citizens rights than many countries in the world. Shudder to think about some of the stuff that goes on in places like China.
I hope I am never on trial and the jury is made up of some of the people on this thread!!
I dont think Avery is the full ticket and a minor criminals, but does he deserve what has happened to him, of course not.
Having watched the series, there is no way on earth Avery or the lad is Guilty, stitched up all the way by the police. Any intelligent person can see that, there is just no evidence, and I understand even the ETA blood test (the test that said that the blood did not come from the phial and was planted) is so erratic that it was in-admissible as evidence before the trial, OK to use as a test during the trial and since the trial it is inadmissible again. And even if the evidence was stronger there is reasonable doubt all the way at the very least, so he should be acquitted.
Consider the implications to Wisconsin and US law if it was proven that the police planted the evidence, as many think they did, its the only logical conclusion. That is why Avery was convicted.
Whilst discussing this programme at work I had the following recommended, The Jinx: The Life and Deaths of Robert Durst which was an HBO documentary series.
Watched this over past couple of days. Some of the prosecution's presented "evidence" was so contrived if it was fiction it would be laughed out the cinema.
The trial was held before it even got to court when the prosecutor gave graphic detail of the supposed events at 2pm on the local statewide media and the subsequent media circus that ensued.
Most of the hick cops and the sex pest prosecutor did not strike me as though they could tie their own shoelaces yet there was an underlying air of menance that leads me to believe beyond reasonable doubt that a lot of the "evidence" was planted by that Lenk who used to be Mulder's boss in X files.
Felt so sorry for the mums. The side of the white American poor and disenfranchised that doesn't usually get aired.
Really had so much respect for the intelligence and ability of Avery's 2 lawyers. They were a different world away from the rest of the cast and appeared to be genuinely disheartened by the miscarriages of justice meted out to the 2 Averys and the mirror it holds up to the hugely flawed legal system within which they operate as opposed to having merely lost a case.
Of course things have been edited to suit the director's narrative but the footage of the ex and roomate unsettled me before it was even implied they could have been involved and I am surprised that these avenues were not explored beyond a minute of questioning from what we saw. The prosecution had an agenda but I'm surprised the defence didn't push on this. Also bizarre why Brendan's initial "confession" rebuttal to his mum was omitted from court with the agreement of his defence. Don't get me started on his original lawyer the Rik Moranis grinning idiot of a "defender".
Something didn't sit right about the brother to me either. I noted in Teresas' selfie video that his name was notably absent when she reeled off the family members she loved. Of course that's all speculation and presumption based on no concrete robust evidence....but there again it's on that basis it appears a man and a child will now spend their lives in prison for something that is certainly not "beyond reasonable doubt".
Hopefully the truth will all come out some day and someone will crack. No doubt when people have gone to their graves.
Excellent viewing and extremely thought provoking but deeply disturbing on so many levels and probably a lot more common rather than being an exclusive case sadly. Terrifying stuff.
I think Avery's lawyers made great points about the presumption of innocence in our society. The media play a big part in feeding a human's natural love of outrage and exclusion and that means people decide a person is guilty before a trial. In some cases people are disgusted that they are even given a trial. In fact I could name several people on this board who regularly bemoan that some accused criminals get a day in court.
There should be laws in place to stop things like that disgrace of a press conference from happening, as well as media reporting of accused criminals identities.
Think the American system sucks, it is all about protecting the verdict and the servants of the law at all costs. The Avery family are odd, some inbreeding appears to have occurred, plus Steve may have killed her but there is no way I would convict him. So much corruption.
Comments
Regarding post-show analysis, IMO of course the prosecutors would say there was lots of physical evidence not shown. They'll know they came off looking worse than the two currently rotting in prison.
I can believe that they maybe saw some reason to suspect him and out of a subconcious desire to get one over on him went after him so single mindedly that they neglected all other lines of enquiry and were willing to make sure the case against him was strong at all costs.
I can also believe they just flat out framed him because he was suing them. Wrongun or not, he's as entitled to a fair trial and just treatment from the Police as the rest of us.
Namely:
- apparently all blood vials have that hole, it was not evidence of a syringe hole. The box had been tampered with though.
- his DNA was found under the hood of the car. Not his blood, but skin cells. Really stretching if we think police planted that too
- Brendan said that him and Steve bleached the garage, and the trousers he was wearing that night were stained with bleach
- Steve had specifically requested for that girl to be sent, and on the day she disappeared called her three times, using a code to hide his caller ID
There is more, but those are the ones that stood out.
you should read these , it squashes a few of those theories like the garage being bleached but there was deer blood found in the garage ect.
Hello.
Yeah?
Yeah.
I can't imagine that there was much evidence left out that would make me think Brandon Dassey was guilty however.
This is in America as well. Not always the land of the free it likes to portray itself as, but certainly a society with better protections for its citizens rights than many countries in the world. Shudder to think about some of the stuff that goes on in places like China.
I dont think Avery is the full ticket and a minor criminals, but does he deserve what has happened to him, of course not.
Having watched the series, there is no way on earth Avery or the lad is Guilty, stitched up all the way by the police. Any intelligent person can see that, there is just no evidence, and I understand even the ETA blood test (the test that said that the blood did not come from the phial and was planted) is so erratic that it was in-admissible as evidence before the trial, OK to use as a test during the trial and since the trial it is inadmissible again. And even if the evidence was stronger there is reasonable doubt all the way at the very least, so he should be acquitted.
Consider the implications to Wisconsin and US law if it was proven that the police planted the evidence, as many think they did, its the only logical conclusion. That is why Avery was convicted.
Who did commit the murder?
http://crimefeed.com/2016/01/did-steven-avery-do-it-5-theories-about-who-really-killed-teresa-halbach/
For what it's worth, I think they were both innocent.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4299972/?ref_=nv_sr_1
The trial was held before it even got to court when the prosecutor gave graphic detail of the supposed events at 2pm on the local statewide media and the subsequent media circus that ensued.
Most of the hick cops and the sex pest prosecutor did not strike me as though they could tie their own shoelaces yet there was an underlying air of menance that leads me to believe beyond reasonable doubt that a lot of the "evidence" was planted by that Lenk who used to be Mulder's boss in X files.
Felt so sorry for the mums. The side of the white American poor and disenfranchised that doesn't usually get aired.
Really had so much respect for the intelligence and ability of Avery's 2 lawyers. They were a different world away from the rest of the cast and appeared to be genuinely disheartened by the miscarriages of justice meted out to the 2 Averys and the mirror it holds up to the hugely flawed legal system within which they operate as opposed to having merely lost a case.
Of course things have been edited to suit the director's narrative but the footage of the ex and roomate unsettled me before it was even implied they could have been involved and I am surprised that these avenues were not explored beyond a minute of questioning from what we saw. The prosecution had an agenda but I'm surprised the defence didn't push on this. Also bizarre why Brendan's initial "confession" rebuttal to his mum was omitted from court with the agreement of his defence. Don't get me started on his original lawyer the Rik Moranis grinning idiot of a "defender".
Something didn't sit right about the brother to me either. I noted in Teresas' selfie video that his name was notably absent when she reeled off the family members she loved. Of course that's all speculation and presumption based on no concrete robust evidence....but there again it's on that basis it appears a man and a child will now spend their lives in prison for something that is certainly not "beyond reasonable doubt".
Hopefully the truth will all come out some day and someone will crack. No doubt when people have gone to their graves.
Excellent viewing and extremely thought provoking but deeply disturbing on so many levels and probably a lot more common rather than being an exclusive case sadly. Terrifying stuff.
There should be laws in place to stop things like that disgrace of a press conference from happening, as well as media reporting of accused criminals identities.
Might have given them both more of a chance.
Jesus Christ! Season 2 has some unbelievable revolutions.
Not quite as good as season 1 but we'll worth watching.