Message to CARD.

Granpa

You may have noticed that I now end my postings with GO CARD, and I fully support the aims of their protest. I feel however that we need to step back for a moment and consider the action we have achieved so far, and more importantly how we go forward.
You deserve congratulations for having now achieved a very big display of dissatisfaction amongst supporters, but I think we need to re-think how we try to remove the owner, nobody else matters. I was embarassed by the Pinocchio masks, in my view they achieved nothing except to waste funds. We have just one target to hit, and that is Roland. When you read what he said during this last visit it is clear that he has no idea whatsoever what needs to be done to rescue the situation. Reading VOTV , an excellent and informed read, I believe that we should open a channel enabling us to tell him on a continuing basis exactly what is going wrong in terms of what is being said and the inaccuracies of statements, events etc from that very unfunny double act Meire& Murray. At the same time we should explain politely but firmly our views upon the actions that he should be taking. Roland is sitting in his ivory tower in a foreign country, and it is clearly obvious that we need to approach with an intelligent and reasoned plan of action, throwing insults at M & M will not move him at all. If he digs his heels in , how do you imagine we can force him to leave ? It has to be with logical argument, factual information, and polite suggestion.
Would those of you who can only communicate with profanities be kind enough to place them elsewhere.

Covered End

How do we open this channel ?

carly burn

There's no magic answer to all of this. You or I are not going to pull a rabbit out of the hat. There's no way of making him leave.

We just have to keep upping the anti and let them know on a daily basis that we hate them and it would be in there best interests if they left, because if they don't there will be no club to own.

He knows exactly what is going on.

We continue.

Algarveaddick

As CE said, how? If a credible businessman with an impeccable track record and the backing of some serious money men cannot get to talk to RD, how are a group of people his CEO (and by the fact that she's still there, presumably he himself) clearly hold in contempt?

Airman Brown

carly burn said:

There's no magic answer to all of this. You or I are not going to pull a rabbit out of the hat. There's no way of making him leave.

We just have to keep upping the anti and let them know on a daily basis that we hate them and it would be in there best interests if they left, because if they don't there will be no club to own.

He knows exactly what is going on.

We continue.

Not sure about that. Why do you think that there is no apology over the Graham Moore fiasco on the website and the club was so slow to mention the season ticket issues on there and when it did gave a very qualified apology hidden in a story about how wonderful the ticket system is, when that failure was clearly a huge issue to the large number of people affected?

My hunch is that it's because RD reads the OS, but not social media. Some things he will find out about because they can't easily be hidden, but I doubt if it's clear to him just how useless Meire is. After all, she isn't going to tell him.

Jimmy Seed Shooter

Excellent post, attempts at dialogue with RD are essential now that he has finally emerged from his bunker. RD needs to employ people and listen to people who understand football in this country, lets hope his recent words have some truth in them and he is now prepared to listen and effect change.

KM is a real problem and getting in the way of solving matters, if RD is serious about turning things around he needs to talk to the fans direct and take on board constructive criticism. KM needs to be sidelined at the very least. Her stunt with Airman this weekend was just another example of how incompetent and out of her depth she really is.

Brendan_O_Connell

Granpa said:

We have just one target to hit, and that is Roland.

Disagree Granpa, the majority of problems lie with Meire. She is arrogant, inept and clueless. If we get rid of her, we can concentrate on the owner next.

Henry Irving

Sorry, I think you are wrong Grandpa

Meire is a legitimate target. She is Roland's "eyes and ears" to quote herself and she is also responsible for the day to day mismanagement of our club.

I'm surprised other people wearing masks embarrassed you but maybe that is just you. Why would you be embarrassed about what other people do? They were fun and got some publicity so they worked. Did they bring the walls of Jericho down? No, of course not but that was not the aim. There is no secret weapon that can do that.

The protests and the mask ARE the channel to Roland. The photo of the protests that KM took was immediately sent to Roland. That he felt he had to give interviews is evidence enough that he is aware of the pressure being put on so he feels the need to defend his policies and his CEO.

There is no other open channel to him. We have seen that he and KM won't even deign to speak to someone offering multi-million pound investment let alone the protesters.

You talk about an "intelligent and reasoned" plan of action. What would that be? If you have such a plan I suggest you contact Katrien.Meire@cafc.co.uk and see what response you get. It won't be a "logical argument, factual information, and polite" response, I doubt you will get any response at all. He's made it clear he doesn't want to talk to fans and KM is too afraid to talk to fans in anything other than a controlled environment surround by her stooges.

Granpa

Hi Henry, opposite opinions obviously. I am 100% sure that we need to aim everything at Roland, as you rightly suggest any approach to Meire would be ignored which is exactly the sort of information I would want to advise Roland about. The only good thing I can see at the moment is that Roland felt obliged to speak up on his feelings. I will wait for the next game to see how many masks will be on show, but at least you now know that if you see one it won't be me.

LoOkOuT

Why would there be masks on show at the next game?

The point is varied and un-suspected acts designed to make the club more difficult to manage and to raise the profile of our dissatisfaction with the mismanagement of the club.

thenewbie

Think that Meire has to go before we even appear on Roland's radar. For all the chat about watching the games on streams and so on it seems a lot of RD's actual day to day reporting comes from what Meire tells him and only that, or at least the 'official,' club-run routes of communication... All the while Meire is carefully trimming and editing away at what gets back to Roland it's possible he genuinely doesn't realise how bad a job she's done.

rikofold

Henry Irving said:

Sorry, I think you are wrong Grandpa

Meire is a legitimate target. She is Roland's "eyes and ears" to quote herself and she is also responsible for the day to day mismanagement of our club.

I'm surprised other people wearing masks embarrassed you but maybe that is just you. Why would you be embarrassed about what other people do? They were fun and got some publicity so they worked. Did they bring the walls of Jericho down? No, of course not but that was not the aim. There is no secret weapon that can do that.

The protests and the mask ARE the channel to Roland. The photo of the protests that KM took was immediately sent to Roland. That he felt he had to give interviews is evidence enough that he is aware of the pressure being put on so he feels the need to defend his policies and his CEO.

There is no other open channel to him. We have seen that he and KM won't even deign to speak to someone offering multi-million pound investment let alone the protesters.

You talk about an "intelligent and reasoned" plan of action. What would that be? If you have such a plan I suggest you contact Katrien.Meire@cafc.co.uk and see what response you get. It won't be a "logical argument, factual information, and polite" response, I doubt you will get any response at all. He's made it clear he doesn't want to talk to fans and KM is too afraid to talk to fans in anything other than a controlled environment surround by her stooges.

Couldn't agree more. It's not as if the dialogue hasn't been pursued - or indeed isn't still open to them. When they had a chance to listen to the fans concerns, even invited fans to communicate such with them, they moved the goalposts at the last minute and turned it into a q+a with a huge panel and as many staff as they could muster. They didn't listen, their sole intent was to push a message we'd already rejected.

I don't know how the end game will play out for the protests but if nothing else was clear from the RD interviews it's that he's getting his information from one sanitised source, and has little clue as to what's really happening. And unless he opens his door to us and genuinely listens it will always be thus.

In the meantime, we keep the pressure up: in the ground, outside the ground and through the media. It's a strong measure of success that the club are responding the way they have in recent weeks, even if it's more of the detached defensive stuff that only serves to deepen the rift.

And the CEO and the newly crowned COO are at the heart of it. Fair targets in my view.

Davo55

@Granpa Like you, I would love for Roland to sit down with fans leaders (either the Trust, or a cross section of our most able, or some of the CARD people) and have a serious, polite, two-way discussion about everything that has gone on and our feelings about them. But, as others have said, he has refused to do so. And so has Meire so far. What do you think we should do, if they won't play ball? Just give up?

addicksmad

Personally I think the chances of forcing Roland scumbag Rat out are minimal at best. However if Pinocchio can be brought to the point where she can stand the heat no more, I can see it may just help. Equally though, if things get too hot for them, Rat and Pinocchio could just declare some mumbo jumbo about the combination of falling attendances, reduced revenue streams, blah blah blah, plus the activities of a hardcore of disruptive 'customers' making the business impossible to run leaves us no alternative but to close the club, liquidate all its assets and redevelop the Valley.
One happy Rat and Puppet, job done, cash in the bank.

ross1

Why are fans not demonstrating at KM as she walks to the match. If fans can get her to stop and talk, this is when placards and jeering (not abusive), should be done, not at the back of the West stand, where she just closes the curtains and her mind as to what is going on outside

soapboxsam

Grandpa, you have said what some others have said.
That they didn't like the Masks and the Pinocchio theme.
couldn't disagree more.
We are losing the next generation of fans,
we are losing every generation of fans.
We are losing on the pitch.
we need to keep some humour.
we needed to prove we weren't just about swearing and violence,
no cracked windows this time.

Keep them guessing ?

mogodon

Completely agree that we should open a channel. The problem is he shows no willingness or desire to do that, and cannot even face the fans on a match day. His puppets are as bad. So how do you open a channel with someone who is tuned in to his own ego and not much else?

MartinCAFC

I reckon turn the heat up on Murray too, show him just how unpopular he's become and that it's not just 'a message board thing'.

His turn for a mask, Snowy the Belgian dog from TinTin would probably suit him.

carly burn

Airman Brown said:

carly burn said:

There's no magic answer to all of this. You or I are not going to pull a rabbit out of the hat. There's no way of making him leave.

We just have to keep upping the anti and let them know on a daily basis that we hate them and it would be in there best interests if they left, because if they don't there will be no club to own.

He knows exactly what is going on.

We continue.

Not sure about that. Why do you think that there is no apology over the Graham Moore fiasco on the website and the club was so slow to mention the season ticket issues on there and when it did gave a very qualified apology hidden in a story about how wonderful the ticket system is, when that failure was clearly a huge issue to the large number of people affected?

My hunch is that it's because RD reads the OS, but not social media. Some things he will find out about because they can't easily be hidden, but I doubt if it's clear to him just how useless Meire is. After all, she isn't going to tell him.

Surely if you're running a multi million pound business that you've pumped a substantial bit of money in, you wouldn't rely on the OS for all your info would you? But if anyone would... I suppose.

If that business just happened to be at the bottom of the pile of its sector then would alarm bells not be ringing? Would it not be time to reach for the fine tooth comb?

Arsenetatters

Granpa said:

You may have noticed that I now end my postings with GO CARD, and I fully support the aims of their protest. I feel however that we need to step back for a moment and consider the action we have achieved so far, and more importantly how we go forward.
You deserve congratulations for having now achieved a very big display of dissatisfaction amongst supporters, but I think we need to re-think how we try to remove the owner, nobody else matters. I was embarassed by the Pinocchio masks, in my view they achieved nothing except to waste funds. We have just one target to hit, and that is Roland. When you read what he said during this last visit it is clear that he has no idea whatsoever what needs to be done to rescue the situation. Reading VOTV , an excellent and informed read, I believe that we should open a channel enabling us to tell him on a continuing basis exactly what is going wrong in terms of what is being said and the inaccuracies of statements, events etc from that very unfunny double act Meire& Murray. At the same time we should explain politely but firmly our views upon the actions that he should be taking. Roland is sitting in his ivory tower in a foreign country, and it is clearly obvious that we need to approach with an intelligent and reasoned plan of action, throwing insults at M & M will not move him at all. If he digs his heels in , how do you imagine we can force him to leave ? It has to be with logical argument, factual information, and polite suggestion.
Would those of you who can only communicate with profanities be kind enough to place them elsewhere.

Hi Granpa, sorry but I disagree with you.

I am also concerned (not sure that's the right word) that although you congratulate CARD for some of their choices of protest you feel differently about the Pinocchio one. Your post is not the only one making criticism of some of their ideas, indeed you make your point far more 'pleasantly' than most. But I would absolutely hate to be on the receiving end of these views - I realise not everyone can agree with everything they do but you must have to have a hide like a rhino for it not to affect you. I would have long since given up working long hours for people to tell me I'm doing the wrong thing and say if you think you can do better......etc. Luckily the folk on CARD don't act in this way - but it's worth a thought - what would happen if they did say bugger it I'm not doing this any more? Where would we be then?

andynelson

MartinCAFC said:

I reckon turn the heat up on Murray too, show him just how unpopular he's become and that it's not just 'a message board thing'.

His turn for a mask, Snowy the Belgian dog from TinTin would probably suit him.

Agreed. The CEO is an habitual liar, she will inevitably lie to Roland just as much as she lies to us. She has little integrity and provably lies to herself as well. So Murray should be a target in order to leave the CEO more exposed.

NornIrishAddick

I think the thing is that the regime don't do communication, at least not beyond bland corporate statements.

The protests cannot just continue to be in the West Stand car park after the game (unless we can get unfeasibly large numbers to attend - the apathy engendered by how the club is being mishandled, together with the numbers unwilling to do anything for fear of the alternative). If that's our only plan, they are all too likely to tail off.

There has to be something different, fairly regularly, to cause comment and encourage media interest - sadly, this weekend, the cock up over the tribute was the focus of UK media interest (but only within the context of a shambolic administration and disaffected fans), sadly because of the distress caused.

Now, if someone can liaise with the club to arrange something of that ilk every few days, and tell us in advance, life would be much easier. In my little world, if they'd let CARD broadcast the top ten on the big screen, that would be lovely....

But, anyway, the thing is that The Shareholder turned up to sweet talk the sullen masses only after the Belgian media picked up upon it. So we need to do everything we can, ideally with humour and always within the law, to keep up the pressure on the regime and, at the same time, grow the numbers protesting.

Not everyone will enjoy every protest, and some may have cunning ideas, in which case, pass them on by PMing some of the CARD people. We are fighting for the existence and soul of our club....

soapboxsam

If Roland won't come to Card,
Then Card must go to Roland.

BILLBOARDS IN BRUSSELS.

Away billboards count double.

bertpalmer

MartinCAFC said:

I reckon turn the heat up on Murray too, show him just how unpopular he's become and that it's not just 'a message board thing'.

His turn for a mask, Snowy the Belgian dog from TinTin would probably suit him.

Think he is more of a David Brent nowadays

Hex

A call to Leeds supporters may prove helpful as they projected anti Massimo slogans onto the side of Elland Road tonight (shown on SSN just after 7pm).

LuckyReds

Something has tailed off with the protests, the one prior to Cardiff felt a bit flat - and I thought not protesting against Bristol was a very good idea. However against Cardiff it felt like something had happened at around 5:30, and I looked around to see it looking very bare.

Not to mention there seemed to be larger numbers leaving before the protests than I've seen recently - that said, I was approaching from the North Stand and not the West Stand this time.

My own view is bordering on apathy now; the interviews with Roland - and even the news of Miere's behaviour before the match - put a dampener on my own enthusiasm. Not because Roland's soundbites worked, but because it was just another signal that this really is going to be a long and arduous battle and it doesn't look like there will be a decisive victory (either way.) any time soon.

I think this was reflected by the SUIYWTO chants during the match, the latter ones were flat - and I've been belting it out every time a chant has happened. Regardless of the views of those around me, I do not care one bit what they think of me or the campaign in general, I want to voice my opinion and stand together with others who hold the same concerns I do.

On Saturday however this was more difficult, I just couldn't see the point. I know that's not the attitude, and in fact it's the attitude that Katrien & co are banking on us having.. but personally the whole experience is simply negative for me. The only positives that have come out of recent visits to The Valley have been the works of CARD FFS! Laughing at the masks, taking a few stickers and looking at all the B&W scarves being worn by people who all want the same thing..

I doubt I'll be making it to The Valley again this season, at the very least I wont be attending every home match like I have the past few months. I simply can't be bothered, and it almost feels like I'm defeated to be honest.

I can't be bothered watching the same utter trash refereeing the games.

I can't be bothered having to ignore utter idiots who shout down those who stand and chant.. but are only ever heard shouting abuse themselves, if not to other fans then to the players.

I can't be bothered getting worked up watching things like "Windowgate" or "Bannergate", seeing other fans getting a slap on the wrist for acting like fans - not obedient little customers in a quaint countryside restaurant.

At a time when, for whatever personal reasons, I feel pretty frustrated and stressed out 99% of the time - Charlton (sadly, and I write the word "Charlton" as though it were a person - a friend.) seems to just fill that 1% with even more frustration and anger. It's not healthy, it's very sad but I feel powerless and tired of it.

Hex

Leeds tonight.

Pico

Granpa - CAS Trust has made a number of overtures to Roland over the last couple of months. You might be interested in this open letter from Steve Clarke issued today: castrust.org/2016/02/cas-trust-invitation-to-roland/

We are not holding our breath

LargeAddick

Couple of things, leave Snowy out of it, he's done nothing wrong. Secondly, RD was over this week but didn't even stay for the game. What makes anything think he'll have dialogue with anyone? Thirdly, cant see how the masks were embarrassing, cant do the same every week and it got picked up by the media so job done. Well done all concerned.

mogodon

carly burn said:

Airman Brown said:

carly burn said:

There's no magic answer to all of this. You or I are not going to pull a rabbit out of the hat. There's no way of making him leave.

We just have to keep upping the anti and let them know on a daily basis that we hate them and it would be in there best interests if they left, because if they don't there will be no club to own.

He knows exactly what is going on.

We continue.

Not sure about that. Why do you think that there is no apology over the Graham Moore fiasco on the website and the club was so slow to mention the season ticket issues on there and when it did gave a very qualified apology hidden in a story about how wonderful the ticket system is, when that failure was clearly a huge issue to the large number of people affected?

My hunch is that it's because RD reads the OS, but not social media. Some things he will find out about because they can't easily be hidden, but I doubt if it's clear to him just how useless Meire is. After all, she isn't going to tell him.

Surely if you're running a multi million pound business that you've pumped a substantial bit of money in, you wouldn't rely on the OS for all your info would you? But if anyone would... I suppose.

If that business just happened to be at the bottom of the pile of its sector then would alarm bells not be ringing? Would it not be time to reach for the fine tooth comb?

We all need to stop trying to rationalise Duchatalet's actions as if he was a normal, rich businessman. He is a rich ego, and his track record suggests he listens to few and believes he knows best. Clearly, the stuff about him watching every game is bullshit. We are a social / football experiment. We have to be. If this was being treated as a business most of what has happened would have had consequences. And yet Squirrel Face, his public face, remains despite being football's answer to Sarah Palin.

Anna_Kissed

Hi Lucky Reds. You're certainly not alone in feeling powerless and fed up. It's hard for a David to take on a Goliath. But unity is strength. The opposition to RD will not diminish - far from it. Standing behind the West Stand, en masse, goes only so far, but standing behind the West Stand is but a part of the opposition. The plan is to be creative, varied and unpredictable. Do please remain involved, albeit whilst not attending games. We must, despite anxiety and self-doubt, be unrelenting.