Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

Video Assistant Referees - do you support the idea?

How is this supposed to work?

While it's good to see that the International Football Association Board (IFAB) is interested in running trials for VARs, I do not have enough confidence in the process to "support" the idea, until it is made clear how the process is supposed to work.

In other sports - particularly cricket and rugby - TV replays work really well. That's because a video review can be requested by either team when the ball goes dead (cricket) or called-for by the referee when he deems the ball is dead in order to determine which decision to make (rugby). In tennis they are fairly good, but still subject to interpretation ("yes the ball *was* in, but I am going to determine that the receiving player *would have* had the chance to return it, in which case...").

But, how on earth are they supposed to work in football? There are too many situations in football which can cause problems if the decision is left to video refs:

1. The forward takes the ball into the opposition penalty area where he is challenged, goes to the ground and the ball rolls to the goalkeeper, who starts an attack. At which point is the game stopped so that a review is made? Does the video ref have the authority to send the attacker off for diving? If the ref awards the penalty, and the VAR overturns it, the defending side is at a disadvantage (compared to if the ref had declined the penalty and the ball ended up with the keeper).

2. A goal is scored as a result of a several dozen-pass passage of play which, in turn started with a foul throw. How far does the VAR "wind the tape back" to check if it's a goal or not? in reality the goal shouldn't stand - but is it a good thing to decline a goal as a result of a foul throw? Or a foul that took place thirty passes ago?

3. The ball touches a forward's hand. The ref sees it. The forward is then tackled in the area and goes down. The ref asks the VAR for a verdict. The VAR "gives" the handball. What decision gets made? Free-kick against the forward because the bloke watching the telly thought it was a handball? Or not a free kick, because the ref saw it an allowed it?

Football is exciting because it is non-stop. Until we know how these are handled, how can anyone support "video refs" as a concept?

«1

Comments

  • No I don't.
  • PL54 said:
    Yes, that's a similar thread, discussing all the changes proposed by the IFAB. In this one I wanted to solicit people's views as to whether VARs are a good idea or if it's too soon to determine.
  • I'm all for it. I don't believe it has to slow down play dramatically but you are right to question such scenarios.

    1. One of the toughest situations. I would hope the game can continue while the video guy takes a look. If the play is stopped 10-15 seconds later, that wouldn't be ideal but at least the right decision would be made and the play not broken up for a non-event. I don't think this is how it will work though - the fear is count attacks are rendered impossible.

    2. The throw-in shouldn't be in the remit of the video ref, there's no excuse for a lino and ref not seeing that. But I guess if the video guy does spot it and reverse the footage briefly, it wouldn't take him more than 10 seconds, let alone 36 passes to let the ref know anyway.

    3. Presumably he would confer with the ref anyway and point out the handball, the ref would relay that it was seen but not awarded, they move on, and make a decision on the foul.
  • In both the first scenarios, the video ref has to take his eye off the game to check. What if another offence takes place while he's watching the tele, and the original "offence" is deemed not to have been an "offence"? He's missed a legit foul, same as the referee can sometimes.

    Anyway - it's all basically on the other thread...
  • I'd be shocked if there isnt a maximum times that a side can appeal on a decision during a match (like with tennis) maybe two calls per half.

    Else people like Mourinho will use the changes to constantly disrupt the flow of the game (especially if the other side are on top)
  • I'd be shocked if there isnt a maximum times that a side can appeal on a decision during a match (like with tennis) maybe two calls per half.

    Else people like Mourinho will use the changes to constantly disrupt the flow of the game (especially if the other side are on top)

    But then, the first time a third offence is blatant, some people will be up in arms and asking "Why can't we have a third appeal". It will happen, you know it. Can of worms... :wink:
  • Not keen. Think it'll spoil the game and put even more pressure on officials. How do you deal with incidents like the Benteke decision on Sunday? That was still being debated in the media yesterday, with various pundits unable to agree on whether or not it was a penalty - not sure how giving the ref 15 seconds to mull it over is going to help.
  • Sponsored links:


  • I'd be shocked if there isnt a maximum times that a side can appeal on a decision during a match (like with tennis) maybe two calls per half.

    Else people like Mourinho will use the changes to constantly disrupt the flow of the game (especially if the other side are on top)

    But then, the first time a third offence is blatant, some people will be up in arms and asking "Why can't we have a third appeal". It will happen, you know it. Can of worms... :wink:
    But as with tennis... If Murray appeals a line call and he's proven right he keeps that appeal... If its proven that Murray was wrong to appeal then he has one less chance to appeal again during that set.

    Same can happen in Football... You get three appeals...

    If Riga says that an opponents goal was offside and he's right, he keeps those three appeals, if he was wrong to appeal then he gets only two more chances to contest a decision that match... If all three appeals get rejected then you lose the right to contest a single decision during the next match.

    Means that the ultimate issues can be contested by teams with harsh penalties enforced if you simply use them to waste time.
  • Difference in Rugby and Cricket the ball is dead in the process leading up to the act of requiring video referee to intervene. There are also rules within both sports of how the referees restart the game after such a stoppage... Which isn't the case in football. If you imagine the Watford Vs Leicester game a few years ago, Leicester miss a penalty and Watford break down the other end and score less than 5 seconds later. That would have been removed if a ref would have looked at encroachment and found none, the game restarts with a drop ball in Watford's box...

    Going to be very interesting to see how it's use will be regulated.


  • The main purpose of the review system in cricket is to prevent clangers, hence why there is an 'umpire's call' margin of error allowed.

    I don't see any harm in a fifth official sat with a monitor, who reviews important incidents like penalties/penalty claims, potentially missed offsides, red cards, looking purely for clangers (eg. no contact, contact outside the box, goalscorer 5 yards offside) and then signals to the referee. Meanwhile the game has not been stopped.

    I don't think managers should be given the chance to appeal, as that would get messy. You don't want a 5 minute break while the referee decides who the ball touched last on its way out for a throw-in.
  • Has anyone yet mentioned the "offside that wasn't".

    Forward is through in one on one on the goalie but linesman is convinced he's offside and game is stopped.

    Review shows he was actually onside. Now what the hell do you do?

    So the linesman doesn't ever put his flag up just in case he's wrong.

    For me the main difficulty problem will be that refs become frightened to stop the play and rely on the fact that it can all be put right later by the video ref. Could be very confusing for spectators!
  • Yes, all this rubbish about slowing the game down...whenever there is a big contentious issue, the players stand round the ref arguing for 90 seconds or so, that is plenty of time to get a video ruling.......should have done it years ago.
  • Has anyone yet mentioned the "offside that wasn't".

    Forward is through in one on one on the goalie but linesman is convinced he's offside and game is stopped.

    Review shows he was actually onside. Now what the hell do you do?

    So the linesman doesn't ever put his flag up just in case he's wrong.

    For me the main difficulty problem will be that refs become frightened to stop the play and rely on the fact that it can all be put right later by the video ref. Could be very confusing for spectators!

    Do away with Linesmen (they can be the ones watching from the TV)... If there is an Offside contention which leads to a goal, the team will appeal and it'll simply be chalked off, not calling for goal hanging as that would be stupid but would open up the matches for sure
  • Ben18 said:

    The main purpose of the review system in cricket is to prevent clangers, hence why there is an 'umpire's call' margin of error allowed.

    I don't see any harm in a fifth official sat with a monitor, who reviews important incidents like penalties/penalty claims, potentially missed offsides, red cards, looking purely for clangers (eg. no contact, contact outside the box, goalscorer 5 yards offside) and then signals to the referee. Meanwhile the game has not been stopped.

    I don't think managers should be given the chance to appeal, as that would get messy. You don't want a 5 minute break while the referee decides who the ball touched last on its way out for a throw-in.

    While he is watching a replay of something that turns out not to be dodgy, he misses something else that was. It would happen a lot with the speed of football today. Unless you are advocating a whole team of video refs constantly monitoring every touch of the ball... Can of worms... :smiley:
  • Greenie said:

    Yes, all this rubbish about slowing the game down...whenever there is a big contentious issue, the players stand round the ref arguing for 90 seconds or so, that is plenty of time to get a video ruling.......should have done it years ago.

    Not if the game has continued...
  • I'd be shocked if there isnt a maximum times that a side can appeal on a decision during a match (like with tennis) maybe two calls per half.

    Else people like Mourinho will use the changes to constantly disrupt the flow of the game (especially if the other side are on top)

    But then, the first time a third offence is blatant, some people will be up in arms and asking "Why can't we have a third appeal". It will happen, you know it. Can of worms... :wink:
    But as with tennis... If Murray appeals a line call and he's proven right he keeps that appeal... If its proven that Murray was wrong to appeal then he has one less chance to appeal again during that set.

    Same can happen in Football... You get three appeals...

    If Riga says that an opponents goal was offside and he's right, he keeps those three appeals, if he was wrong to appeal then he gets only two more chances to contest a decision that match... If all three appeals get rejected then you lose the right to contest a single decision during the next match.

    Means that the ultimate issues can be contested by teams with harsh penalties enforced if you simply use them to waste time.
    There will be calls for a third appeal the very first time a major clanger is dropped after a team have used theirs up. Just the way people are calling for video refs now, even though other people, like me, are continually pointing out the pitfalls FA. You may well be satisfied with two appeals, others wont. And the situation we find ourselves in now - with more and more people (like you) calling for video refs - will repeat itself, with more and more calling for a third appeal, and saying "We have the technology, why not use it...".

    Anyway, it's going your way not mine, so I wouldn't worry about it until that third appeal comes in. At which point I will be digging you out on every post... :wink:

  • edited March 2016

    I'd be shocked if there isnt a maximum times that a side can appeal on a decision during a match (like with tennis) maybe two calls per half.

    Else people like Mourinho will use the changes to constantly disrupt the flow of the game (especially if the other side are on top)

    But then, the first time a third offence is blatant, some people will be up in arms and asking "Why can't we have a third appeal". It will happen, you know it. Can of worms... :wink:
    But as with tennis... If Murray appeals a line call and he's proven right he keeps that appeal... If its proven that Murray was wrong to appeal then he has one less chance to appeal again during that set.

    Same can happen in Football... You get three appeals...

    If Riga says that an opponents goal was offside and he's right, he keeps those three appeals, if he was wrong to appeal then he gets only two more chances to contest a decision that match... If all three appeals get rejected then you lose the right to contest a single decision during the next match.

    Means that the ultimate issues can be contested by teams with harsh penalties enforced if you simply use them to waste time.
    There will be calls for a third appeal the very first time a major clanger is dropped after a team have used theirs up. Just the way people are calling for video refs now, even though other people, like me, are continually pointing out the pitfalls FA. You may well be satisfied with two appeals, others wont. And the situation we find ourselves in now - with more and more people (like you) calling for video refs - will repeat itself, with more and more calling for a third appeal, and saying "We have the technology, why not use it...".

    Anyway, it's going your way not mine, so I wouldn't worry about it until that third appeal comes in. At which point I will be digging you out on every post... :wink:

    I think that the Technology should be used yet to an extent with very strict rules in place.. In tennis they've relied upon the three challenges for a good while now

    You dont see them asking for more (Or you dont appear to see them asking) so it would be for the Governing bodies to turn around and say; You've got your video calls now, its not our fault your not using them correctly.

    If people cant agree to some sort of control with the amount of challenges that can be made then I say dont use it
  • Sponsored links:


  • edited March 2016

    I'd be shocked if there isnt a maximum times that a side can appeal on a decision during a match (like with tennis) maybe two calls per half.

    Else people like Mourinho will use the changes to constantly disrupt the flow of the game (especially if the other side are on top)

    But then, the first time a third offence is blatant, some people will be up in arms and asking "Why can't we have a third appeal". It will happen, you know it. Can of worms... :wink:
    But as with tennis... If Murray appeals a line call and he's proven right he keeps that appeal... If its proven that Murray was wrong to appeal then he has one less chance to appeal again during that set.

    Same can happen in Football... You get three appeals...

    If Riga says that an opponents goal was offside and he's right, he keeps those three appeals, if he was wrong to appeal then he gets only two more chances to contest a decision that match... If all three appeals get rejected then you lose the right to contest a single decision during the next match.

    Means that the ultimate issues can be contested by teams with harsh penalties enforced if you simply use them to waste time.
    There will be calls for a third appeal the very first time a major clanger is dropped after a team have used theirs up. Just the way people are calling for video refs now, even though other people, like me, are continually pointing out the pitfalls FA. You may well be satisfied with two appeals, others wont. And the situation we find ourselves in now - with more and more people (like you) calling for video refs - will repeat itself, with more and more calling for a third appeal, and saying "We have the technology, why not use it...".

    Anyway, it's going your way not mine, so I wouldn't worry about it until that third appeal comes in. At which point I will be digging you out on every post... :wink:

    I think that the Technology should be used yet to an extent with very strict rules in place.. In tennis they've relied upon the three challenges for a good while now

    You dont see them asking for more (Or you dont appear to see them asking) so it would be for the Governing bodies to turn around and say; You've got your video calls now, its not our fault your not using them correctly.
    I do get your point FA. But it's football, not tennis. The only time even a fraction of the number of people who care about football get wound up about tennis is when a Brit reaches a major final. Every man and his dog has an opinion on football, the airwaves, internet and news papers are packed with pundits and punters putting their oar in. If there was no clamour from people such as your good self to introduce technology now, I am sure it would not be happening.

    What I am trying to convey is that we already have very strict rules, which do not include eye-in-the-sky technology. If those strict rules can be broken, then there is no reason to believe that your new set of strict rules cannot be broken in the future, and then again, and again.

    I know the laws change all the time, we would still have refs sitting on shooting sticks, hacking and tapes for crossbars if they didn't. But this is such an enormous sea change in the way football is refereed, it is unprecedented and it really does draw a very clear line between the haves and have nots - be it within one country's domestic leagues, or the top flight in a rich country like Britain, and a poor one like Nigeria.
  • I think all appeals should have to be in writing. And assessed by a panel of professionals and journalists, three weeks later. That'll keep the interest going.
  • edited March 2016
    Im in favour of it but I would prefer the tennis system in which each manager would get one challenge per game, that they get back if proved correct but lose if false, that would stop the managers calling a challenge for every minor decision but hopefully remove the game deciding errors that spoil so many matches.

    Obviously it would need a rule that a challenge can't be called when the ball is in play but I doubt it would seriously slow down the game considering how much time that is wasted with players celebrating a goal that may have been incorrectly given or when players are surrounding the ref in outrage over a red card or setting up for a set piece etc.

    I know this would not help in a situation like a player being called wrongly offside for a one on one chance but just because the technology is not able to deal with every situation does not mean we should not use it to help with the problems it can assist in.

    I am just tired of watching so many good games completely spoiled by a wrong call that change the result of the game as this is meant to be a sport, a contest of tactics and player ability, not about which team gets lucky because the ref has a bad angle of view for an important decision.
  • I support the principle of providing additional support for match officials via video support, but the devil is in the detail, which to my knowledge, has not yet been published.

    Any further evidence that referees at this level get an overwhelming number of decisions right must be welcome.
  • What I really don't understand is this three challenges rule. The potentially dodgy decisions don't mysteriously stop after three. It's either dodgy or not. Have video refs for everything or nothing. I advocate nothing.
  • edited March 2016
    Yes, should have introduced it years ago certainly in the top leagues around the world. It is easy to say that bad decisions even themselves out over a season but it is no consolation to those teams who seem to keep being on the end of them!

    Interesting that the new broom at FIFA is throwing it's weight behind this new initiative.
  • What I really don't understand is this three challenges rule. The potentially dodgy decisions don't mysteriously stop after three. It's either dodgy or not. Have video refs for everything or nothing. I advocate nothing.

    My theory of introducing the three challenge rule would be to stop Managers / Players from stopping the game for no apparent reason other than to ruin the momentum that other sides will have accrued.
  • What I really don't understand is this three challenges rule. The potentially dodgy decisions don't mysteriously stop after three. It's either dodgy or not. Have video refs for everything or nothing. I advocate nothing.

    My theory of introducing the three challenge rule would be to stop Managers / Players from stopping the game for no apparent reason other than to ruin the momentum that other sides will have accrued.
    Does the game stop for an appeal or wait until the next natural break in play?
    The problem I envisage if it stops the game then surely any club with an unused appeal late in game could simply use it to disrupt the match exactly how subs are used now, so for me if there if such a system in place then for me only the referee can call upon it but it will almost certainly change football as a spectacle as I think referee's will constantly make decisions knowing it can be overturned rather than let it go.

    Then if we have to wait for the next stop in play for a review then this is where I have problem as it not inconceivable that might be a minute or so later and that might brought about by a goal, I can just see this being a farce where a goal could be disallowed for an incident that happened two minutes beforehand and for me will open the door for clubs to start demanding that goals where errors went unnoticed at the time are retrospectively scratched off and the remaining minutes replayed.

    It is really frustrating to see wrong decisions being made when the evidence is there to give the correct one but I just don't see Video Referees really being anything more than an aid to the Referee in as much as the 4th Official is rather than someone that rights all the wrongs we see because in reality anything further will for me create as many problems as it solves.
  • Works in Ruggers and Clicket.
  • What I really don't understand is this three challenges rule. The potentially dodgy decisions don't mysteriously stop after three. It's either dodgy or not. Have video refs for everything or nothing. I advocate nothing.

    Exactly what I was trying to convey SHG.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Roland Out Forever!